/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.5951801]

Are the results of transracial adoption study valid?

Do you accept that different races have different level of intelligence or do you believe that evolution stops at the neck?

[Anonymous No.5951809]

Obviously the environment the child grew up in is no doubt the biggest factor in determining this..

[Anonymous No.5951815]

>>5951809

But they all grew up in middle class white home...

why is the gap still there?

[Anonymous No.5951826]

>>5951815
they could be sensitive to peer and teachers expectations.

[Anonymous No.5951828]

>>5951815

They dont give the age for all we know the previous home they lived in had to do with this.

Also, they dont include if they were home schooled or received public schooling. Being a certain race in school could also be a possibility.

[Anonymous No.5951835]

>>5951828
Scratch that evidently the way the child was brought up before 7 has all do with this.

[Anonymous No.5951836]

>>5951801
Posting just a small info graphic and implying a strong conclusion is not a well constructed argument. There are many factors that could contribute to this distribution. For example: >>5951826
>>5951828
raise good points. If you are actually interested in this topic, try conducting actual research.

[Anonymous No.5951840]

>>5951801
What about things like the Flynn Effect?

What if societal ideas that blacks or stupid cause a larger percentage of black kids to place less importance on their intelligence, and thus contributing to a lower average.

[Anonymous No.5951848]

I hope their allowed to continue their research so they can find a gene sequence that makes people smarter. No doubt all the political and racial shit this will lead too will shut them down.

[Anonymous No.5951850]

Someone just linked this thread to /pol/. Prepare to get derailed.

[Anonymous No.5951852]

I think we need to ask ourselves what the environment that borne these results. These black children were the product of parents who probably were less than ideal. Poor nutrition (perhaps even malnutrition), possible drug/alcohol abuse during the pregnancy etc may have contributed to this.

I question what type of middle class setting we define this as. People will call me a Liberal or a Anti-Racist Cultural Marxist but the genetic basis of intelligence does not equal racial inequality. Of course certain things make predispose minute differences in intelligence (Asians and Jews have a tendency to marry children to their very successful peers thus explaining their higher percentages of High-IQ people).

I was reading a study done by James Flynn that looked into the IQs of children born to GIs in Germany. The offspring of Whites and Blacks had the same IQ despite their genetic differences. This is a clear example of environment's role in race. This same trend is noticed in both Korea or Japan.

No one is saying race doesn't exist (though it parameters are in question) nor is anyone saying that blacks don't face inherent crises in their own culture. What we are saying is that the achievement gap is due in large part to Environmental factors.

To add, as a black person, it is very possible that Black's may have to deal with genetic problem down the line (Intelligent blacks marry Whites, Asians and Latinos while their less intelligent counter-parts reproduce exponentially with less intelligent people).

[Anonymous No.5951854]

Why are people so confident that IQ favours no race, yet we know the averages for objective things are different. For example:
>asian average height difference
>asian penis difference
>black muscle mass

We are obviously very different genetically, so far every test i've seen has come back the same, and every person scrapes the bottom of the bowl for excuses to avoid being politically incorrect. These are adopted kids, they probably grew up in an orphanage, and even if they didn't, I doubt the white and asian kids were given IQ enhancing attention if the parents abandoned them before age 7.

Obviously more research needs to be done to be absolutely positive, but it's getting to the point were you have to at least accept it very well COULD be true.

[Anonymous No.5951853]

>>5951850
who /pol/ here?

[Anonymous No.5951857]

Just a reminder.

[Anonymous No.5951858]

>>5951801
>Do you accept that different races have different level of intelligence or do you believe that evolution stops at the neck?

Nice loaded question, shitwad

I accept that there are physiological differences between races due to different evolutionary stresses from the environment. However, most of the differences in intelligence are cultural. This includes adopted children with specific ethnic backgrounds raised in 'white households', seeing as the culture still treats them as black/asian/etc.

[Anonymous No.5951860]

>>5951854

I don't think 15 points IQ difference is down to nurture.

Also note that in any society with black majority demographics and black leadership , it is a shit hole.

All of sub saharan Africa, SA after apartheid, Mugabe's Zimbabwe, Haiti (which is right next to Dominican Republic on the same island, yet one is a shithole the other is quite nice, Detroit.

[Anonymous No.5951859]

why is it okay to say a dalmation is dumber than a corgy but not okay to say that an African is dumber than a European or Asian?

you're letting beliefs and politics get in the way of science. humans are just like other animals, with species and subspecies. Africans and Eurasians are different subspecies.

this isn't the only study that's been done...

[Anonymous No.5951862]

>>5951854
>Obviously more research needs to be done to be absolutely positive, but it's getting to the point were you have to at least accept it very well COULD be true.

This is the position every competent scientist should take when designing and performing an experiment. Congratulations, you've caught up with everyone else.

[Anonymous No.5951863]

>muh babby's first egalitarian debate

there are no genetic scientists on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.5951865]

Why is a discussion about the result of scientific study considered /pol/ and not /sci/?

[Anonymous No.5951867]

>>5951862
What the fuck are you talking about, I know that, I'm telling everyone else to "catch up" as you put it.

[Anonymous No.5951869]

>>5951859
>why is it okay to say a dalmation is dumber than a corgy but not okay to say that an African is dumber than a European or Asian?

Because they aren't scientists saying that, and there is no test that can give a composite score representative of a dog's intelligence, or at least not a reliable one.

Also no one cares if you call a dog dumb because you cannot socially ostracize a specific breed of dog and force them to be treated professionally and culturally as inferior. They're just dogs.

[Anonymous No.5951870]

>>5951859
why is it okay to purchase and castrate a dog but not an African child?

[Anonymous No.5951871]

these aren't new, the truth has been out for a while but studies like this are always suppressed due to political correctness.

look at Africa. don't claim she's exploited for her resources then turn around and claim it has no resourses. the Africans aren't resourceful. basically, Africa is the way it is because of Africans.

inb4 Egypt. north Africans are more closely related to Arabs which are Caucasian. if you still don't believe me I counter with Rhodesia/ Zimbabwe and south Africa. when they kicked their white governments out the countries went to shit.

[Anonymous No.5951873]

>>5951869
>because you cannot socially ostracize a specific breed of dog and force them to be treated professionally and culturally as inferior

Pitbulls.

[Anonymous No.5951874]

>>5951869
>They're just dogs

And we're just humans

[Anonymous No.5951872]

>>5951854

I'm not very sure about penis size. It's really a myth that stupid people argue about. As for your claim about Asian height - I don't really know whether or not that is true as I've never seen evidence (and I mean evidence from developed countries with Asians in them in this century) that height differences effected in genetics in anyway.

Blacks have the same muscle mass as anyone else. I've seen plenty of muscular Asian men and scrawny black men and culture (playing basketball everyday vs. studying inside everyday) plays a role. Correlation doe snot equal causation. Asians from Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore typically wear glasses more than Whites or Blacks in NA, Europe and Asia. This is due not to a genetic inheritance of myopia but rather a culturally induced biological trait (the children are kept inside to study and read all the time damage their eyesight).

As for the Whites and Asians (you know it's /pol/ when you clump them together as if they have identical IQ score) these children probably were born to parents who at that time were better fed, and took better care of themselves than their black counter-parts.

Please DON'T derail the argument by saying something is Political Incorrent or Correct.Whine about the government in /pol/ but not here.

[Anonymous No.5951875]

>>5951872
>read all the time damage their eyesight

1990 calls, it wants its obsolete theory back

[Anonymous No.5951876]

>>5951871
>these aren't new, the truth has been out for a while but studies like this are always suppressed due to political correctness.

I have a question for you. Before you typed out your post about how racist studies are 'suppressed', did you actually look at the study referenced in the image, check out the sampling procedures, look where they studied, how they conducted their survey, etc. If your answer is no, please leave the thread.

[Anonymous No.5951877]

>>5951874
Yeah, but obviously we treat them differently.

See: >>5951870

[Anonymous No.5951878]

>>5951859
>Dalmatians and corgis
>Different subspecies

They're both Canis lupus familiaris.

Why do stormfags always try to use dogs as an example when dogs have the greatest diversity in appearance compared to any other land mammal, not just humans?

[Anonymous No.5951879]

I can't even try to argue with you because it wouldn't work. Just look this:

Egypt isent black but it's not white or Arab and any Egyptologist will tell you that. It's a mix and if you believe the one drop rule (which is bull shit) then yes it is black. Egyptians are more related to Sudanese, Ethiopians and Berbers then people from Denmark.

As for your arguments on Africa, seriously man go back to /pol/. I'm sure things like corruption war and colonial borders factor in and there were African civilizations like Ethiopia, Ghana, Great Zimbabwe, Mali, Kongo etc. Whether a teenager on 4chan thinks of them as such is his problem - not anyone elses.

[Anonymous No.5951880]

>>5951873
...what?

[Anonymous No.5951881]

>>5951869
the test is Africa. millions of years of human existence and its still a shithole, even when civilization is forced on them they refuse it.

winter faring races are more crafty and creative, if they don't think beyond the day they would die in winter. northern races simply evolved differently than southern hemisphere races, who didn't have to think beyond the day to survive. there was always food growing naturally and animals walking around in their environment. in the north you had to create your own welfare and take care of your own, to them the welfare just never ran out and everyone could survive. its the earliest form of deevolution.

[Anonymous No.5951882]

do people that deny race-iq somehow think that each race has exactly the same average IQ nature component?

like exactly the same?

because that is essentially impossible

[Anonymous No.5951883]

>>5951872
different races have different strong and weak points, its generally a trade off. but of course there are outliers, but that doesn't mean that most fit in with the generalization.

[Anonymous No.5951884]

>>5951882
IQ has changed throughout the centuries dumbass

[Anonymous No.5951886]

>>5951881
>the test is Africa. millions of years of human existence and its still a shithole, even when civilization is forced on them they refuse it.

This isn't even indicative of a lower intelligence. There are tons of highly intelligent African tribes with incredibly refined hunting and gathering skills, but they didn't produce large, stratified civilizations because their environment couldn't sustain a larger population/technology/writing, etc. If you want a longer answer, read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.

[Anonymous No.5951888]

>>5951886
>Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.
...................../sci/ pls

[Anonymous No.5951890]

>>5951888
Yeah, it uses some case-based reasoning, but it talks about civilizations that had no writing system and a small, sparse population. How are you supposed to get a specific statistical representation of a population that literally never records anything?

[Anonymous No.5951892]

>>5951872
Do you live under a rock?
>penis size
http://digitaljournal.com/article/333932
>height
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height
>body mass was the wrong phrasing but
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1392.full

Also
>probably better fed and took better care of themselves
>probably
>maybe
>might have
>assumption

There are plenty of white and asian parents who would present the same environment, and when dealing with kids put up for adoption theres a much higher chance it came from one of those households.

[Anonymous No.5951893]

>>5951876
>Implying swarmfags bother to read scientific studies

They just scour them to cherry pick graphs to support their argument and then claim anything opposing their argument is either "jew controlled" or "liberal fairy tale bullshit" without trying to counter with facts or evidence.

The race and intelligence debate is for men of science, not for 4chan cool kids who care more about being seen as right on an anonymous image board than they do about genetics.

[Anonymous No.5951895]

>>5951860

Dude go back to /pol/ and drink the koolaid. If you think Detroit is shit because black people live their you need a lesson in History, Economics and what happens when rich/skilled people leave and your business gets sold overseas (also when crack and urban hood culture becomes popular culture. Blacks were in Detroit before it fell and they and it did fine).

Haiti - they are a sad story. No one traded with them, their resources were stolen by corrupt leaders (who were nuts) and they had to pay a massive indemnity to France.

South Africa - having a lot of rapes and crime is a sign of corruption and bad policing not low intelligence. If we follow your logic then the West and Asia would not need police forces at all. Mugabe's Zimbabwe sucks but ask any white Rhodie (and I know quite a few) and you'll find the problems are with poor governance rather than unintelligent people.

Barbados, Botswana, Kenya, Ghana, Ibos of Nigeria, Mozambique, Gabon, Cameroon, Angola and Grenada all do fine. Jamaica (despite it's crime which is a reason of it's own corrupt system) is alright in the long run.

You just don't fancy blacks - it's as simple as that.

[Anonymous No.5951896]

>>5951886
>jared diamond
>muh 6 million

don't ever use that shit as a source again. take a trip back to the real world and take a good hard look at Africa and any area of high black concentration in any western nation.

[Anonymous No.5951898]

>>5951815
Interaction with teachers / peers. Influence of your friends.
This can include language. The language you speak to with your friends influences your language of thought. One that is more imprecise or less disposing toward critical thinking will no doubt make thinking of a scientific nature more difficult.
How faculty, teachers, others, and even your parents view you influences your self-image, motivations, and indirectly your development.
I remember in my high school in many of the afro american cliques you were ostracized for doing homework and the like. You were seen as something of a traitor for integrating and doing well. On the other hand, I do recall one African national whose parents had migrated to the US doing just as well as most other honors students.
That's another thing: motivation to succeed, especially during IQ testing. Someone who blows thru the test by reasoning that poor results won't help or hurt them personally will not do as well as someone who maintains faith that they can become equally valued members of society and have some sense of belonging and desire to achieve and contribute. Because the latter is motivated to put in effort in good faith on questions in the IQ test and in academics in general.
It reminds me of the comparison of economies between North and South Korea. One of the reasons for the remarkably lower efficiency of the North is the people have no faith in social mobility. They don't believe they will progress if they make an effort, so unless the incentive is to avoid pain, their economic productivity is lower. Adopting a victim complex is a hindrance to motivation.

[Anonymous No.5951897]

>>5951875

What's the theory called?

Do you even know what Myopia is?

[Anonymous No.5951901]

>>5951896
>take a trip back to the real world and take a good hard look at Africa

Jared Diamond is an anthropologist routinely visits Papua New Guinea and has presumably traveled hundreds of places for interviews regarding his books.

While you, an 'armchair scientist' on the other hand, probably seldom leave your house, and the farthest you've traveled was a summer trip to California.

[Anonymous No.5951903]

>>5951895
>all this doublethink and damage control

why does it continue to happen? why is the whole continent uncivilized? why is every ghetto uncivilized? explain it to me without blaming whites.

[Anonymous No.5951906]

Jesus fuck /pol/ kiddies, why do you feel the need to try and disprove the nurture theory. Just revel in the fact that there is evidence that an average asian kid and an average white kid are smarter than an average black kid.

[Anonymous No.5951904]

>>5951903
>4chan memes
>A valid counter argument

Why can't stormfags argue like normal human beings?

[Anonymous No.5951908]

>>5951897
>Myopia
>Caused by excessive reading

/sci/ - full of people who know what they're talking about

[Anonymous No.5951911]

>>5951892
>http://digitaljournal.com/article/333932
Richard Lynn? The guy who thought that Irish people were less intelligent that blacks and thinks that Indians are white despite having IQs in the 80s? This is your proof?

His methods and materials are shoddy. He got into a little trouble for using the IQ tests of a set of mentally retarded kids in Spain as the National average for a black country.

As for your "assume" greentext, this is silly because you imply that scientific caution (refraining from making unfounded conclusions) is somehow indicative of a weak argument. I accept it is possible that the black biological parents had the same experience as White or Asian parents.

[Anonymous No.5951914]

>>5951901
I live in California, I'm sitting in San Francisco, one of the largest melting pots. you know what I see when I drive down the street?

whites are usually already successful, their parents worked hard over several generations. Asian immigrants working hard, setting up businesses, making sure their children have a future. by the second and third generations they're successful. hispanics can't seem to get past picking fruits and working in fast food, but I have hope for them I've seen a few successful outliers. blacks are homeless living on the streets or in Oakland living on welfare. I don't see that changing as they've been here for many generations.

counter my observations with your sheltered experiences sitting inside reading some books.

[Anonymous No.5951915]

>>5951903

>why is the whole continent uncivilized?

This isn't the 60s anymore

Modern day sub-saharian africa is wealthy, civilized and industrialized, the majority of them have better living conditions than 10% of all americans

[Anonymous No.5951916]

>>5951903
>why is the whole continent uncivilized?

'Uncivilized' is an inherently ethnocentric word. Might as well define it if you're going to be ambiguously ethnocentric.

>why is the whole continent uncivilized?
There are urban areas and large cities in Africa. See: Lagos, Kinshasa

>why is every ghetto uncivilized?
...ghettos are poor because that's an inherent characteristic of ghettos. I believe in rhetorics they call that a tautology.

>explain it to me without blaming whites.
>explain to me how racism exists without taking into consideration the historical fact that whites have been the primary culprit of racism in the modern world.

[Anonymous No.5951918]

>>5951903

Ugh...

I don't know what to say.

[Anonymous No.5951919]

>>5951895
>If you think Detroit is shit because black people live their you need a lesson in History, Economics and what happens when rich/skilled people leave and your business gets sold overseas

Is that why Pittsburgh became the most livable city after the steel industry collapsed?

Hint: pittsburgh is <10% black

[Anonymous No.5951920]

>>5951914
>I live in California

So it's even worse than he originally said.

Your anecdotal evidence has no place on the science board, and even if it did, it still wouldn't trump Jared Diamond's own experiences. Post it on >>>/pol/ with the rest of your circlejerk.

[Anonymous No.5951922]

>>5951914
>I live in California, I'm sitting in San Francisco, one of the largest melting pots. you know what I see when I drive down the street?

Okay, so you're refuting a book based on many recorded observations with a single, poorly recorded observation of your own? Weren't you just the one criticizing the scientific rigor of Jared Diamond for using case-based reasoning?

[Anonymous No.5951927]

>>5951908

Never said excessive reading. Now your just putting words in my mouth. Staying indoors and reading in a darkened rooms and up front comes at one both ways. That means that straining one's eyes in a darkened room constantly studying (away from the sun) is probably not good for you eyes.

[Anonymous No.5951929]

>>5951801
I can accept that races have different average intelligences. I mean if you think about it, it would be kind of wierd if they didn't. 100,000 years is a long time for a technology based species to evolve intelligence...

[Anonymous No.5951932]

>>5951914

Thank you for proving our point. Working hard,and setting up businesses rather then living in a poverty culture is the way to go.

I'm amazed how you personally have tracked the occupation, genealogy and economic status of every single black, asian, white and hispanic in the Bay area.

[Anonymous No.5951936]

>>5951911
Here you go
http://www.everyoneweb.com/worldpenissize

Also I notice you accepted the other two studies so you obviously accept there are genetic differences.

Lastly, you presented your 'black household' argument almost like a fact, I was reminding you that it was a MAYBE and could or couldn't be true. You'll notice I never said it was wrong, only that it was only an assumption.

[Anonymous No.5951937]

>>5951914
also I work in the medical field. travelling around to different emergency rooms and hospitals, what I see (keep in mind this is a very diverse population the examples are supported time and time again) what I see is whites, Asians, mid easterners, and Indians (from India) working as doctors, surgeons, nurses, EMT's and firefighter paramedics, all working to help blacks and hispanics who dominate the emergency room clientele for some reason. that's irrelevant but what's relevant is those people from those backgrounds, their parents work hard, they push them to learn and grow so someday they can be contributing members of society. another thing is they care. empathy is what's driving you to stand up for those poot other people right now. but do you think they'll stand up for you? come live here, walk down the street at night and see how many people living on your tax dollars call you a cracker/gringo and beat up your kids in school for being a white who's oppressing them, an opinion they learned because apologists like you taught it to then and continue to support it.

[Anonymous No.5951934]

>>5951929
100,000 years is a negligible amount of time in evolutionary history

[Anonymous No.5951943]

>>5951936
>Also I notice you accepted the other two studies so you obviously accept there are genetic differences.

Nobody doubts there are genetic differences between races you nimrod. There are genetic differences between everyone. The most obvious phenotypic indication that races have different genetics is the differences in facial structure and skin pigmentation (downward-slanting palpebral fissures in asians, melanin in the skin of black people). The debate here is whether black people are physiologically predisposed to being less 'intelligent'.

[Anonymous No.5951944]

>>5951920
>appeal to authority

[Anonymous No.5951949]

>>5951937
>what I see
We really do not care what you 'see' as much as what you record.

[Anonymous No.5951950]

>>5951932
were speaking generalities here. I'm the one who brought up outliers. the study were discussing isn't about outliers, its about how people of those ethnicities are in general.

the generalizations are obvious if you live in a melting pot and don't skip around in a bubble of delusions.

[Anonymous No.5951951]

>>5951927
>That means that straining one's eyes in a darkened room constantly studying (away from the sun) is probably not good for you eyes.

>Myopia
>Caused by eye strain

You're digging a deeper and deeper hole with each and every post.

Why don't you go do a Wikipedia search on myopia before your respond next?

[Anonymous No.5951953]

>>5951944
I'm not the person you're replying to, but when he says that Jared Diamond's experiences 'trump his', he's referring to the fact that Jared Diamond's book cites and presents anthropological evidence that has been recorded and analyzed, as opposed to the other guy's observations which have not.

[Anonymous No.5951955]

>>5951919

That's a fallacy (just because you did something doesn't mean other people can). It would be like saying because someone got a nobel prize - everyone should be expected to get nobel prizes.

Let me ask you - what about Binghamton - small city in central New York State. It's one of the most impoverished places in New York (majority white).

Pittsburgh suffered in the 70s and 80s but it reinvented itself and did not follow the corruption and politicking of Detroit. It was home to several universities (very good for jobs) and had investments in Technology.

[Anonymous No.5951957]

>>5951944
>Argument by logical fallacy

also

Fallacious arguments from authority often are the result of failing to meet at least one of the required two conditions (legitimate expertise and expert consensus) structurally required in the forms of a statistical syllogism.[1][2] First, when the inference fails to meet the first condition (inexpert authority), it is an appeal to inappropriate authority, which occurs when an inference relies upon a person or a group without relevant expertise or knowledge of the subject matter under discussion.[3][4]

Second, because the argument from authority is an inductive reasoning argument—wherein it is implied that the truth of the conclusion cannot be guaranteed by the truth of the premises—it also is fallacious to assert that the conclusion must be true.[2] Such a determinative assertion is a logical non sequitur, because, although the inductive argument might have merit—either probabilistic or statistical—the conclusion does not follow unconditionally, in the sense of being logically necessary.[5][6]

[Anonymous No.5951959]

>>5951949
>doesn't care about what I see
>quotes Jared Diamond who's just writing a boom to stir things up so it'll sell

[Anonymous No.5951960]

>>5951953
>Jared Diamond's book cites and presents anthropological evidence that has been recorded and analyzed
what evidence?

Do you mean this?

[Anonymous No.5951962]

>>5951959
*book

I also meant poor in another post, not poot. my phone must be made by niggers because it sucks.

[Anonymous No.5951965]

>>5951959
>character assassination

Are you even trying anymore?

Can you just like, call us Jews and go back to your own board now?

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5951966]

>>5951801
They are valid.
I do accept that different races are innately predisposed to have different levels of intelligence. I do not believe that evolution stops at the neck

>>5951809
>2013
>Making things up and claiming that it's obvious

>>5951826
>>5951840
>What if societal ideas that blacks or stupid cause a larger percentage of black kids to place less importance on their intelligence, and thus contributing to a lower average.
Black people have higher self esteem
Black people have higher self assessment in pretty much everything
Black people have lower rates of depression

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jun/04/anthonybrowne.sarahryle
I know, a tabloid, deal w it. I'll find a more reputable source later if you'd like me to

Black people are fed exaggerated interpretations of their own achievements, with famous blacks being deified (Jackie Robinson, Neil Degrasse Tyson, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Barrack Obama, George Washington Carver)

Because of this, it seems very unlikely that expectations of peers and teachers would be keeping them down

>>5951840
>Flynn Effect
What, so there was an overall rise in IQ, therefore the current gaps cannot be attributed to genetic differences?
In the 1300s, men and women were much shorter. Women today are even taller than 1600s men. Does this mean that the differences in height between men and women cannot be attributed to genetic differences between men and women?

>>5951848
Agreed

[Anonymous No.5951967]

>>5951960
>steel wheels and frame
>opaque fabric over the eyes of the zebra
>technology unbestowed to African tribes

Yeah sure, the African hunter-gatherer tribes were just too stupid to spontaneously produce steel wheels and advanced machinery. Show me a picture of a naked person bare-backing riding a zebra in the wild and we'll talk.

[Anonymous No.5951970]

>>5951951

I'll go to Wikipedia when you show me that radical '90s theory.

In 2010-2011 an Australian university did studies which showed that it was not too much time in the sun but rather too much time indoors without it. Good try though

Am I being trolled? You remind me ironically of this black guy whom I debate religion, economics and social issues with who always acts like he won an argument even if he's made a fool of himself.

[Anonymous No.5951974]

>>5951943
How is the fact there are a multitude of very noticeable genetic differences not relevant to that debate?

[Anonymous No.5951976]

>>5951967
That wasn't the point. If you actually read it instead of being the typical ignorant liberal who constantly namedrops "intelligent" people you would have known Jared Diamond argues that zebras couldn't be domesticated.

[Anonymous No.5951978]

>>5951959
>quotes Jared Diamond who's just writing a boom to stir things up so it'll sell

Already been said, but you're just trying to commit character assassination to discredit his arguments. Jared Diamond is an anthropologist. It's his job to write about the history of humans. But no, his work doesn't matter because you claim he 'just wrote it for money'.

Did I mention I'm an ashkenazi Jew?

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5951985]

>>5951852
>I was reading a study done by James Flynn that looked into the IQs of children born to GIs in Germany. The offspring of Whites and Blacks had the same IQ despite their genetic differences. This is a clear example of environment's role in race.
Eyferth?
If so, then you weren't reading close enough

The "African" group included North Africans

Lower IQ people are more likely to rape, so if whites had a higher IQ, you would expect that the white rapist fathers in the study would be relatively further below the white mean IQ compared to that of the black rapist fathers

Furthermore, the military filters out invalids. If black people did have a lower IQ, you would expect more blacks to be filtered out

They tested the IQ of CHILDREN
At young enough ages, black children outperform white children, and white children outperform NE Asian children

However, at certain ages, the whites overtake the blacks and the NE Asians overtake the whites

The same is true of chimpanzees and humans. At young enough ages, chimps are much smarter than humans.

This doesn't mean that there aren't different innate predispositions in IQ between races

[Anonymous No.5951987]

>>5951978
SEE GUYS I WAS RIGHT HE ADMITTED IT

JEWS EXIST

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5951992]

>>5951852
>No one is saying race doesn't exist
Plenty of retards say this

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1998-10/WUiS-GSRD-071098.php

Btw, he's lying about what Templeton ACTUALLY said

Templeton just made a definition for what constitutes a subspecies, and then said that race doesn't count as a subspecies based on his definition

[Anonymous No.5951990]

ITT /pol/ gets manhandled and proven wrong (again)

[Anonymous No.5951991]

>>5951974
Because everyone has noticeable, genetic differences. Your facial structure, hair color, and virtually every differentiable physical characteristic of your body is a result of genetic diversity. You're just extending this reasoning to psychological characteristics, which are undoubtedly influenced by culture.

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5951993]

>>5951857
This is science.

Differences between groups with differing biology is science.

[Anonymous No.5951995]

>>5951993
this isn't science, this is /pol/ stuff.

[Anonymous No.5951998]

>Are the results of transracial adoption study valid?
Its a psychological study.

So, no.

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5951999]

>>5951863
You don't need to be a genetic scientist

There are methods of inferring how heritable something is without reference to genetics at all.

[Anonymous No.5952000]

>>5951978
of course the most persecuted of all races would jump to defend anyone they feel is being persecuted. good on you, but some aren't trying to use studies like this to persecute anyone. this is just information to me, and its baffling how some people toss it out because of their politics. this is like various religions dismissing evolution, and the differences in fact support the theory of evolution. how could you deny something with so much evidence supporting it?

[Anonymous No.5951996]

>>5951976
He argued that zebras couldn't be domesticated by african tribes because they are easily frightened. Notice the eye-covers on the zebra?

[Anonymous No.5952002]

>>5951976
>typical ignorant liberal
When did I ever disclose my political beliefs? Would you believe me if I said I was a libertarian?

[Anonymous No.5952003]

>>5951976

In fact you are the one missing the point. It's no different than if you'd showed a zebra that has been genetically modified, with cyber implants to ensure docility, and said "problem, jared diamond?"

Domestication has to start at the beginning, with bare back riding, with no blinders or helpful equipment. That's the problem with zebras. You can't get started along the domestication line like you can with horses.

[Anonymous No.5952005]

If you administered IQ tests to Swedish whites, German whites, French whites, and American whites, you very well might get radically different figures (or at least noticeably so). How finely might you prefer to parse different ethnic groups? Would this imply that one group is inherently more valuable than another? Is it even proper to consider groups instead of individual evaluations?

I understand at some level it becomes more an issue of likelihood, but depending on how you partition these nebulous ethnic categories you might start getting different results. When the IQs of "blacks" are measured so too are those of blacks living in urban ghettos, etc. which may end up bringing down the average (and mind you, their lower IQs may have to do with more than physiology).

[Anonymous No.5952006]

>>5951990
>/sci/, ignoring the reallity at it's finest

[Anonymous No.5952009]

>>5952002
Yes because you guys are even more retarded.

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952007]

>>5951869
>Because they aren't scientists saying that
Richard Lynn. Philipe Rushton. Linda Gottfredson. Arthur Jensen. William Shockley. Charles Murray. Richard Hernstein.

Pretty much every scientist from East Asia or Eastern Europe.

[Anonymous No.5952011]

>>5952000
>of course the most persecuted of all races would jump to defend anyone they feel is being persecuted. good on you,

That was an obvious trap, but good job falling for it anyway. This pretty much proves you're just a typical /pol/ anti-semite/racist using bad science to substantiate your world views. For the record, my position on this issue is based on my understanding of biology and evolution, not on my political or ethnic affiliation. I'm not even Jewish, you gullible moron.

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952012]

>>5951884
He never said otherwise.

[Anonymous No.5952014]

>>5951801

>2013
>Not accepting legitimate evidence and statistics
>Calling yourself a "scientist"

Hah!

Stay pleb, you self hating whites!

[Anonymous No.5952015]

>>5952006
Nice completely uncited research. I could photoshop that image to list Africans as certified geniuses and it might as well be as veracious as the original.

>>5952007
Was talking about the whole issue of breeds of dogs having differing intelligences, but whatever.

>>5952009
Funny, because I'm not a libertarian either. Sounds like you're just grasping at straws to group me in with some affiliation you consider stupid.

[Anonymous No.5952017]

Discoveries using Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI), which creates a three-dimensional image of the living brain, have shown a strong positive correlation (.44) between brain size and IQ (see Rushton & Ankney, 1996, for a review). And there is more. The National Collaborative Perinatal Project on 53,000 children by Sarah Broman and her colleagues, showed that head perimeter at birth significantly predicts head perimeter at 7 years — and head perimeter at seven years predicts IQ. It also shows that Asian children average a larger head perimeter at birth than do White children who average a larger head perimeter than do Black children.

Racial differences in brain size have been established using a variety of modern methods. Using endocranial volume, for example, Beals et al. (1984, p. 307, Table 5) analyzed about 20,000 skulls from around the world. East Asians averaged 1,415 cm3 , Europeans averaged 1,362 cm3, and Africans averaged 1,268 cm3 . Using external head measures to calculate cranial capacities, Rushton (1992) analyzed a stratified random sample of 6,325 U.S. Army personnel measured in 1988 for fitting helmets and found that Asian Americans averaged 1,416 cm3, European Americans 1,380 cm3, and African Americans 1,359 cm3. Finally, a recent MRI study found that people of African and Caribbean background averaged a smaller brain volume than did those of European background (again see Rushton & Ankney, 1996, for review).

[Anonymous No.5952018]

>>5951970
>>5951970
>In 2010-2011 an Australian university did studies which showed that it was not too much time in the sun but rather too much time indoors without it.

[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.5952019]

>>5952015
>group me in with some affiliation you consider stupid.

Except I didn't group you in with anything. It's plausible that you could be libertarian because most libertarians are retarded, not the other way around.

[Anonymous No.5952020]

>>5952011
I defended Jews...

I have a feeling this board is a bunch of fedora wearing autistic kids. this isn't even debate anymore, some of you have been duped by letting politics influence whether or not you accept facts and evidence.

[Anonymous No.5952023]

>>5952019
>Except I didn't group you in with anything.
>typical ignorant liberal

Problem?

[Anonymous No.5952024]

>>5951953
>>5951920
>>5951901
>>5951886
Diamond fails to inform his readers that it is different environments that cause, via natural selection, biological differences among populations. All of the Eurasian developments he described created positive feedback loops selecting for increased intelligence and various personality traits (e.g., altruism, rule-following, etc.).

Racial differences in brain size and IQ map very closely to the same cultural histories Diamond explains. Although Diamond dismisses such research as "loathsome", he fails to tell his readers what, if anything, might be scientifically wrong with any of it.

[Anonymous No.5952029]

/pol/ standing by. >>>/pol/18544057
REMOVE SCIENTOLOGY FROM PREMISE! THERE IS ONLY CHRISTIANITY! SCIENCE AND THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE IS IRRELAVANT IN HUMAN HISTORY! Science only serves for the Jew. Science is the cancer that kills this world. Science serves no purpose. The greatest achievement of science is the human body itself made by god. Use these human bodies god has created to be self sufficient. Not for enslaving others through the federal reserve and other jewery! Science is the destroyer of man.

[Anonymous No.5952030]

>>5952023
That wasn't me.

[Anonymous No.5952031]

>>5952020
>I defended Jews...
No you didn't. You're implying that Jews are incapable of exercising critical thinking when presented with biological issues of race because of their history of persecution. That sounds like the complete opposite of 'defense' to me.

>some of you have been duped by letting politics influence whether or not you accept facts and evidence.

$15.00 says that you didn't even read the study cited by the image, but you decided to take the conclusions in stride. Isn't that exactly the thing you're accusing me of?

[Anonymous No.5952033]

>>5952006
thats an interesting pic. sometimes IQ doesn't have a lot to do with how you live and how your species sees that its society should be set up. look at Neanderthals, they were fine living a more individualistic society, rely on themselves more than a society. gorillas are fine living in the jungles, and blacks are fine with living in 3rd world ghettos.

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952034]

>>5951915
> the majority of them have better living conditions than 10% of all americans
Source?

>>5951934
But precisely equal intelligence?
Really?
It was enough time for the different races to have adult lactose tolerances ranging from ~0% to ~100%
It was enough time for some races to be almost a foot taller than others
It was enough time for the skin colours to change drastically
It was enough time for the BRAINS to change in size, shape and composition
So you want innate equality of intelligence to be the default assumption?

[Anonymous No.5952035]

Since the results show that the rearing environment has no effect on the IQs of adopted children, the only conclusion to be drawn is that the factors responsible for these different levels of IQ are genetic. Not only do they vindicate the conclusion put forward by Dr. Jensen in 1969. They show that Dr. Jensen underestimated the genetic contribution to the low black IQ. The study by Dr. Scarr and Dr. Weinberg indicates that genetic factors are responsible for the entire black IQ deficit, not for between two-thirds and three-quarters of it as Dr. Jensen had suggested.

Curiously, in their paper Dr. Scarr and Dr. Weinberg state that their results “demonstrate the strong effects of the rearing environment on IQ.” Their results provide no evidence whatsoever for this statement. Apparently, the wish was father to the thought.

http://www.amren.com/ar/1994/03/index.html

[Anonymous No.5952038]

>>5952035
`
>amren

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952043]

>>5951995
>this is /pol/ stuff
Oh, so as soon as we talk about differences in human races, it's NO LONGER SCIENCE because you said so?

[Anonymous No.5952042]

>>5952029
Jews hate science, the holohoax isn't supported by any actual evidence.

[Anonymous No.5952047]

>>5952015
It's a legit research, the fact that Africans have not created a single important civilization, unlike Caucasian Europeans, Native Americans, Arabic or Indian ancestors. Is proof that they weren't capable of surpass their cognitive limitations to be able to progress as a society and leading to the modern Africa.
>>5951998
Strong denial, ignores radically every possible source of information.

[Anonymous No.5952044]

>>5952034
>It was enough time for the BRAINS to change in size, shape and composition

Can you cite this research? I'm actually asking because of curiosity and not skepticism.

>But precisely equal intelligence?
I do not think that races are precisely equal in intelligence. However, I think that the majority of deviation within the intelligence of members of a population is due to cultural influence.

[Anonymous No.5952050]

>>5952043
no because /pol/ is behind it. see>>5952029

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952056]

>>5952005
>inherently more valuable than another
"inherent value" doesn't make any sense
But if someone values people who are more productive and intelligent, then yes, they would think that people with higher IQs were more valuable.

>>5952038
>you can't use sources that agree with you and that I don't like

[Anonymous No.5952059]

>>5952047
>other studies suggest Jews are the most intelligent race
>Israel below amerishits, sitting at #33

east Aryans are truly our true greatest ally

[Anonymous No.5952063]

>>5952047
>It's a legit research
Based on what? It's an estimate that's methodology remains completely unknown to me. Since when is IQ an objective measure of intelligence again? Do you know what board you're on?

>Africans have not created a single important civilization
(pic related)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinshasa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

>proof that they weren't capable of surpass their cognitive limitations
Even though I've demonstrably proven what you just said is bullshit, whether a civilization is successful, large, stratified, or not is based on the environment. This is pretty obvious when you look at human civilizations from an anthropological perspective as opposed to a racist, misinformed one.

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952066]

>>5952044
Certainly

All else being equal, bigger brains are better:

http://www.people.vcu.edu/~mamcdani/Big-Brained%20article.pdf

Brain size and cognitive ability: Correlations with age, sex, social class, and race

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/Brain%20Size%20and%20Cognitive%20Ability.pdf

More coming

[Anonymous No.5952068]

>>5952059
Ashkenazi Jews are. Ashkenazis aren't the majority in Israel

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952069]

>>5952050
>Some posts are by /pol/ users, therefore this isn't science

[Anonymous No.5952072]

>>5952069
>>5952066
>>5952056
>>5952043
>>5952035
>>5952034

Reported

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952075]

>>5952066
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013642

[Anonymous No.5952076]

>>5951966
>cites a tabloid
>Claims that famous blacks are deified, a claim that is unsupported and probably can't be supported

[Anonymous No.5952073]

>>5952038
>Research That Was to Prove Jensen Wrong Proves Him Right
>by Richard Lynn

[Anonymous No.5952074]

>>5952066
>http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/Brain%20Size%20and%20Cognitive%20Ability.pdf

This is a dead link, do you have a mirror?

[Anonymous No.5952078]

>>5952074
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/Brain%20Size%20and%20Cognitive%20Ability.pdf

[Anonymous No.5952079]

>>5952068
wow fukin raciss

look at this fukin bullshit

did cracka sayin niggas ain't da smartes rayse

we fukn inventd pyrimids n shut bitch afrkca is da kradel of sivilisashun

muh peanut butter
muh purimids
much dick

[Anonymous No.5952080]

>>5952076

The best part is

>claims that famous blacks are deified
>this guy deifies famous whites

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952082]

>>5952072
>People disagree with me
>I'm too dumb to argue with them
>Better just report them

[Anonymous No.5952085]

>>5952075
To be completely honest, I've only skimmed through this study, but one part of the methodology seems a bit 'sketchy'.

The experimenters choose to use IQ scores as the measurement of intelligence, but I oppose IQ scores as a measurement of intelligence because of the whole issue of 'multiple intelligences'. This is a position I've held for a long time on numerous studies I've read, primarily ones regarding the neurotoxicity of certain substances based on differences in IQ. Can we really call IQ a 'quantified measurement of intelligence' when intelligence is an ambiguous term to begin with?

[Anonymous No.5952086]

>>5952082

No one is obligated to argue with idiots, when you can just wait for janitors to clean up their mess

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952090]

>>5952076
>cites a tabloid
I said that I could further provide citations if needed

>>5952080
>deifies famous whites
How do you figure?

[Anonymous No.5952087]

>>5952063
Also, what is considered successful to a civilization varies with the culture of the area. Of course, there may be some shitholes in Africa that are by any measurement shitholes, but there are also places that seem as if they aren't progressing simply because they are content with the way their civilization is. Alnd I know that this is /sci/, but IQ really isn't everything.

[Anonymous No.5952092]

>>5952087
Culture itself is a result of the environment. At least in its preliminary stages. The rest is just presumably a crap-shoot.

[arguing that races are innatel(...) No.5952093]

>>5952086
;_; You okay, bro? You seem upset.

[Anonymous No.5952096]

>>5952063
Sub-Saharan Africans never invented the wheel.

Sub-Saharan Africans never invented a written script or alphabet.

Think about that for a second. They were extraordinarily primitive.

As for IQ being a measure of intelligence, most psychologists agree that it is by far the best and one with the greatest predictive value.

[Anonymous No.5952098]

holy shit, are people really in this much denial?

brainwashed politically correct sheep

[Anonymous No.5952099]

>>5952096
>Sub-Saharan Africans never invented the wheel.

The reason being is that it takes tons of time to subsist off of hunting and gathering. A preliminary attribute of a civilization when producing technology is that it needs to have agricultural food production. Without agricultural food production, everyone has to spend their days hunting & gathering and none are able to produce food surpluses that could feed specialists. Without specialists, you can't have alphabets or steel or chariots.

This is basically a summary of the whole part of Guns, Germs, and Steel regarding technological innovation. It has a much more thorough analysis (albeit dry and lengthy).

[Anonymous No.5952100]

>>5952085
Intelligence is not ambiguous, I've heard of the multiple intelligence theory and it's a load of floaty bullshit that most psychologists disregard completely. Basically it's completely incapable of being measured. As far as I remember there were such things as kinesthetic intelligence, body intelligence and other bullshit.

The IQ test and general intelligence g is the only thing that can be measured, with zero cultural or language bias. It has an unbelievably predictive power and very few psychologists will tell you that IQ is irrelevant or not measuring anything tangible.

[Anonymous No.5952101]

>>5952096
But Egyptians invented hieroglyphs. And yes they're Africans, especially before the Arabs invaded North Africa. Not sure if you're from /pol/ or just a fucko on /sci/

[Anonymous No.5952102]

>>5952098
Who specifically? There's one half of this thread having a scientifically literate discussion and one half of this thread throwing shit and playing kiddy-character-assassin.

[Anonymous No.5952104]

>>5952079
This can't be serous.
>>5952090
Justify my other greentext

[Anonymous No.5952105]

>>5952100
I'm not as much citing the specific theory of multiple intelligences as much as the idea that people can have different expertise in specific fields. All the IQ tests I've taken and had administered to me mainly focus on pattern recognition, spatial reasoning, and general cultural knowledge. You can see why the third would drop in certain ethnic groups.

[Anonymous No.5952107]

>>5952099
But then the question arises, why were sub saharan africans incapable of developing agriculture?
It does require a good deal of intelligence.

[Anonymous No.5952106]

>>5952100
So many claims, so few citations.
You're not taken seriously

[Anonymous No.5952108]

>>5952100
>Intelligence is not ambiguous, I've heard of the multiple intelligence theory and it's a load of floaty bullshit that most psychologists disregard completely.

Keep talking out of your ass. Now who's appealing to authority?

>hurr it's just bullshit, bullshit bullshit what a bunch of bullshit pfft bullshit

>It has an unbelievably predictive power and very few psychologists will tell you that IQ is irrelevant or not measuring anything tangible.

IQ itself is a composite of multiple scores, each relating to different types of performance (i.e., intelligence).

[Anonymous No.5952111]

>>5951985
>lower IW people are more likely to rape
This has got to be /pol/.
No citations, gtfo

[Anonymous No.5952112]

>>5952107

Who's to say they were incapable? Nomadic groups can continue thriving as they do without the need to settle down.

[Anonymous No.5952114]

>>5952107
Highly successful agriculture also requires high-protein cereal crops, adequate water supply, domesticable animals capable of pulling plows, and land that can produce enough calories per acre to make agriculture a productive alternative to hunting and gathering.