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/sci/ - Science & Math

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Can /sci/ correctly answer this question? Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:21:04 2013 No.5903065 [Reply] [Original]

A two part question to determine if you "think like a mathematician," from Prof. Eugene Luks, Bucknell University, circa 1979.

Part I: You're in a room that is empty except for a functioning stove and a tea kettle with tepid water in it sitting on the floor. How do you make hot water for tea?

Part II: Next, you're in another room that is empty except for a functioning stove and a tea kettle with tepid water in it sitting on a table. How do you make hot water for tea?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:23:34 2013 No.5903074 I- I put the kettle on the stove and turn it on. II- I put the kettle on the stove, and turn it on. I know what you're expecting, but a mathematician is smarter than playing your little games

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:24:34 2013 No.5903083 >>5903074 Incorrect but good effort.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:27:34 2013 No.5903091 >>5903083 >incorrect mathematicians don't know how to make tea

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:33:04 2013 No.5903104 1. I put the kettle on the stove and turn it on. 2. I put the kettle on the floor. Then I apply step 1.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:33:33 2013 No.5903103 bump

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:37:04 2013 No.5903106 >>5903104 Sorry but no. What's wrong? I thought /sci/ had some smart folks on it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:39:35 2013 No.5903108 >>5903106 >Retard walks into a college class >Retard says "bwdgb wbsa" >Nobody understands shit >Retard gets offended

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:39:35 2013 No.5903109 >>5903106 He's right though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:40:03 2013 No.5903110 1. You don't 2. You don't. The room is empty except for a table, a stove, and a tea kettle. There is no teabag, therefore you can only make hot water and not hot water for tea.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:41:04 2013 No.5903117 >>59031065 No source of electricity for stove?

Anonynous Mon Jul 15 17:41:05 2013 No.5903121

>>5903065

Okay, well there has to be something significant between these two circumstances. The only difference is the table.

>functioning

I take that to mean that it needs no form of ignition

>a tea kettle with tepid water in it sitting on the floor.

Tea kettle on the floor, stove also on the floor

>sitting on the table.

both on the table.

Put kettle onto cooker and ignite in both instances

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:41:35 2013 No.5903118 Here's the 4chanian way: gtfy http://to-count-the-stars.blogspot.fr/2012/05/thinking-like-physicist.html

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:42:03 2013 No.5903124 >>5903118 Also, OP is a douche for not accepting >>5903104 's answer since he had the idea.

Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:44:34 2013 No.5903126

>to determine if you "think like a mathematician,"

1)
>see kettle on the floor (wat)
>see stove
>think "fuck this is too easy, I need to use unnecessary rigour and make this more complicated than it actually is"
>let the stove be a compact metric space
>let the kettle be Reimann zeta function
<span class="math">\zeta (s) = \sum_{n=1}^{\infty } \frac{1}{n^s} ~ \forall s\in\mathbb{C}[/spoiler]
>prove that the real part of any non-trivial zero of the Riemann zeta function is 1/2.
>spend 30 years trying to solve the problem
>go insane and jump out the window

2)
>walk in the room
>jump out the window

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:45:04 2013 No.5903129 >>5903110 but it doesn't say anything about having to have teabags you put the kettle on the stove, and eventually it will be hot enough to make tea in. doesn't matter if you have the bag or not

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:45:04 2013 No.5903132 >>5903124 Also, wikipedia's version is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teakettle_principle

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:48:35 2013 No.5903140 >>5903083 Is the answer you want for step 2 "go sit on the table, now invoke step 1"?

Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:51:34 2013 No.5903146

A physicist, a biologist and a mathematician are sitting in a street café watching people entering and leaving the house on the other side of the street. First they see two people entering the house. Time passes. After a while they notice three people leaving the house. The physicist says, "The measurement wasn't accurate." The biologist says, "They must have reproduced." The mathematician says, "If one more person enters the house then it will be empty."

Explain plox

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:52:03 2013 No.5903147 >>5903129 But "for tea" implies that the hot water will be used to make tea. You cannot make tea without a teabag and teabags seem to be lacking from this problem.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:53:03 2013 No.5903151 >>5903146 2 - 3 = -1 -1 + 1 = 0

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:55:04 2013 No.5903159 >>5903147 no, it says you're making hot water for tea, not that you're making tea

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:55:05 2013 No.5903155 >>5903147 2 people in 3 people out that means there's - 1 person + 1 person - 1 person = 0 people

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:57:34 2013 No.5903162 What is a 'tea kettle'? If I put my kettle onto my stove it would melt and shit would get fucked up. Is yours one of those metal non-electrical pots that old people put on arguers?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:58:04 2013 No.5903165 >>5903159 Then what's the "for tea" for? Why didn't he just say "how do you make hot water" and leave it at that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 17:59:04 2013 No.5903166 >>5903146 Do you not understand addition?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:02:04 2013 No.5903172 >>5903155 Negative numbers don't exist in reality. There are no negative people.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:03:03 2013 No.5903174 >>5903165 so people like you would fail the test. tl:dr you don't think like a mathematician

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:05:04 2013 No.5903177 >>5903174 Well obviously I think like a rational person instead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:08:34 2013 No.5903181 >>5903177 no, because by your logic, the room is empty except for a tea kettle with water and a stove and you. there's no air, so you die of suffocation

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:10:04 2013 No.5903188 >>5903172 that seems like a negative attitude.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:11:34 2013 No.5903190 >>5903155 What happens when a negative person made of lava collides with a positive person made of ice????????????????????????

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:12:04 2013 No.5903195 You boil it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:12:34 2013 No.5903191 File: 45 KB, 452x339, thats_the_joke.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5903172

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:12:34 2013 No.5903194 >>5903181 Well there's another reason why this question is stupid. How can you call yourself a mathematician when you can't even define the room to be full of air at the beginning? Too many variables 0/10 would not solve

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:15:33 2013 No.5903205 The answer requires a bit of meta, mathematicians can never agree on the correct way to solve a problem.

Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:24:04 2013 No.5903221

>>5903205

mathematicians have to make assumptions in order to simplify real life to mathematical approximations

it's fine to say w/e you want as long as you justify it. anon's argument about my question being wrong because i'm assuming things is wrong because he's assuming things whereas i'm not

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:30:35 2013 No.5903231 >>5903065 > I cannot solve either problem as I do not have a temperature that you consider hot.

Anonymous Mon Jul 15 18:37:03 2013 No.5903249

>>5903231

you're wrong, because you're assuming you need water to be hot to make tea

water doesn't need to be hot to make tea, but the problem specifically says it's hot enough to make tea. it doesn't matter if you know or not, just that it's possible to warm the tea sufficiently

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 20:16:03 2013 No.5903451 >>5903231 Who said I am the judge of that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 20:44:03 2013 No.5903485 Do I also have tea leaves? Otherwise making hot water is kind of a waste of time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 21:59:05 2013 No.5903590 >>5903065 I. You heat up water II. You heat up water

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 22:15:04 2013 No.5903606 >>5903146 The house is empty. For 3 people to exit there must have already been 1 person in there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 22:17:04 2013 No.5903612 >>5903065 1. there is no tea 2. there is no tea fuck your flawed questions

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 23:32:05 2013 No.5903774 >>5903249 No YOU are wrong it specifically says HOT tea but what temputure is hot?

>>	Talimar Mon Jul 15 23:34:04 2013 No.5903779 It specifically states that there are only specific objects in the room, and then excludes you from said room.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 23:46:35 2013 No.5903798 >>5903126 I'm a maths Ph. D. student, and I can assure you that this man is correct.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 23:56:34 2013 No.5903812 >>5903612 Beat me to it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 15 23:59:05 2013 No.5903814 I. Prove the existence of the stove, kettle, water, floor, and room. II. Prove they are unique.

Anonymous Tue Jul 16 00:07:05 2013 No.5903824

From the wikipedia:

> the mathematician will throw out the water – "reducing the problem to a previously solved problem".

HOLY SHIT

I literally do this EVERY SINGLE MORNING, my moms leaves the kettle with water in it but I always throw it out and put in new water!

Does this mean I can become a really good mathmatician. ( I am not even trolling _

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 16 00:08:34 2013 No.5903825 >>5903065 >empty except [list of stuff that doesn't include air] (I) There's no air. You suffocate. (II) There's still no air. Too busy suffocating to make tea.

Jarl Sagan !ZelZ/AwYqE Tue Jul 16 00:15:34 2013 No.5903832
File: 45 KB, 680x544, 1319694357139.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5903065
So, the argument is you can't make hot water for tea if you don't have something to create the tea?

Tell me why this isn't on

>>>/phi/

Also, fuck it.

>take off shirt
>put in tea kettle
>make shirt tea

1/tea because fuck you OP.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 16 00:37:34 2013 No.5903866 >>5903832 >Poor Gary wants to be considered a genius only because he had an Exeggutor.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 16 00:58:03 2013 No.5903886 >>5903065 Throw out the water in the tea kettle the second time to reduce it to a previously solved problem

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