please help me /sci/ i've been crying for most of the last 2 days thinking about something that crossed my mind. Is time infinite? My future has a healthy human being will probably be decided on your answer.

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Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:13:55 2013 No.5875400 [Reply] [Original]

please help me /sci/ i've been crying for most of the last 2 days thinking about something that crossed my mind. Is time infinite? My future has a healthy human being will probably be decided on your answer.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:19:23 2013 No.5875408 please respond im starting to get paranoid

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:26:53 2013 No.5875421 Time is a man made invention. There is only the present moment.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:28:53 2013 No.5875425 >>5875400 of course it is infinite you retard. do you think gravity could be finite too?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:34:25 2013 No.5875437 >>5875425 Then isnt it a given that at some point the conditions for me to exist again will repeat themselves over and over again? I feel so sick i cant stop crying please tell me im wrong

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:36:24 2013 No.5875443 File: 1.84 MB, 400x247, Kr80Yl9.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Time doesnt exist, clocks exist. Pic unrelated, though possibly helpful

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:37:54 2013 No.5875446 >>5875437 yes. there is nothing you can do about it. existence is continuous

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:39:54 2013 No.5875453 We don't know, it depends on how the universe ends. It could be cyclical (or something beyond our comprehension with similar consequences) so time would be infinite, but we don't know.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:41:54 2013 No.5875456 >>5875437 Define "me" and "exist" Time does not exist, the noumenons "exist" in a continuous perpetual manner differently from what we call "time" but time is the way we interpret and measure the continuum.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:41:54 2013 No.5875457 >>5875453 please help me with this >>5875437

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:41:54 2013 No.5875458 You should watch Wild Strawberries by Ingmar Bergman to contribute to/help with your existential crisis

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:42:54 2013 No.5875459 >>5875457 >>5875457 >Then isnt it a given that at some point the conditions for me to exist again will repeat themselves over and over again? Nope not a given.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:46:24 2013 No.5875468

>>5875456
i mean that if things last forever then at some point matter will be arranged in a way that im conscious again... and again... and again...

and that means that at some point i will be on end up in all possible scenarios like one where i get my dick smashed by a hammer

i used to think of dead as a way to stop having sensations permanently but this means that i will have to go through endless pain for eternity, right?

im 100% serious

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:47:54 2013 No.5875471 >>5875459 please explain me why not so i can rest. at this point i can barely sleep

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:50:23 2013 No.5875476 >Time likely to end within 5 billion years, physicists calculate http://phys.org/news205133042.html

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:50:54 2013 No.5875477 >>5875459 If time is infinite then EVERYTHING is bound to happen at some point.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:51:24 2013 No.5875478 >>5875471 You don't even exist right now. You're just limited holographic interactions of the electromagnetic spectrum that imagines it exists. Your imagination is lying to you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:52:24 2013 No.5875479 >>5875476 In their paper, they explain that in an eternal universe, even the most unlikely events will eventually occur -- and not only occur, but occur an infinite number of times THIS IS WHAT I MEANT. PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS WRONG. IM SO SCARED OF PAIN

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:52:54 2013 No.5875480

>>5875477

Everything possible within the laws of physics, you mean. Just because there's an infinite amount of time for something impossible to happen doesn't mean it will. An infinite set of numbers may be infinite, but at no point will you find a letter in that set.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:53:24 2013 No.5875482 >>5875478 when i put my hand though fire the pain is real enough

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:53:54 2013 No.5875481

>>5875471
There is no good evidence for a repeating universe, so in billions of years everything may become cold and there will be no life, no stars. So there would only be some billions of years of time for you to be 'rearranged' which makes that unlikely to happen even once.
Since this is one possibility, it is possible that what you're saying is wrong, therefore it is not a given.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:54:23 2013 No.5875483 >>5875477 why?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:54:24 2013 No.5875484 >>5875479 No, that's what they posit would happen in a Universe with INFINITE time. They are suggesting time is finite, therefore that wouldn't happen.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 19:55:24 2013 No.5875485
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>>5875400
Since you're in a mood for thinking...

I want to to consider that through some surgery you and another individual have your brains grafted together and share thoughts and memories for a time. After a while you grow weary of your duplicate and decide to go back to your original bodies.

After synching your memories and thoughts for such a duration, is it possible to say that either of you are the same person you once were? What determines whether 'you' went back to the correct body? How can you have a correct body if due to the mixing of memories you remember being in both of them?

Again we would like to make use of your active mind...

Think for a moment about the computer monitor in front of you. If only there was some way to project the screen directly into your brain via some computer machine interface, then you could walk around town with a mind driven display; even better than a headsup display!

But wait...If the monitor is just a projection in your mind, then there is no need to focus your eyes on only a small section of the screen. Indeed, if it were truly seen by the mind's eye, then you could envision the whole monitor all in focus at once. Why stop at a monitor? Why not a theater screen? A football field? An infinitely expanding plane...

Imagine -don't just think about it, try to actually imagine- being able to visualize every square inch of the earth in perfect focus all at the same time.

Then, I want you to think about the importance of the concept of time while you are actively visualizing the entire earth. How much information are you seeing every second? How long would a minute feel in comparison to just two pairs of barely focused eyes? How can you compare time across such completely different sensory experiences?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:01:24 2013 No.5875489 >>5875482 All matter/matter interactions only occur in the electromagnetic spectrum, so even burning your hand is just an illusion of being burned.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:02:54 2013 No.5875492 >>5875489 He's saying he doesn't care if it's an illusion or not, it still hurts just the same.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:08:54 2013 No.5875503 >>5875468 None of the conclusions you are arriving at follow from the continuum of noumenical reality. You went full non sequitur.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:09:54 2013 No.5875505

>>5875443
Every time you say time doesn't exist, without qualification or further explanation, and in this superior, dismissive fashion, I'm going to drive to your house and break one of your clocks. If you don't have a clock to break, I'm going for your phone.

Time absolutely exists in every sense relevant to the human experience. If time doesn't exist in some higher, unknowable way, there is no point in saying so, as it being real or not in this respect has no bearing on the universe as it can be perceived by us.

"Time doesn't exist to hypothetical beings that exist beyond time," is a pointless notion to ponder, and a foolish one to assert so self-righteously.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:09:54 2013 No.5875506 >>5875484 tell me that there's evidence that time is indeed finite and will not "restart" or something like when another universe is created. >>5875492 exactly

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:11:54 2013 No.5875513

OP I used to be scared of what you're talking about, but I'm currently working on a way that may perhaps make it so we won't suffer continuously over and over in this or future lives.

For more info, post in my forum and i'll perhaps get back to you
http://calculatingexistence.webs.com/apps/forums/
It's empty and dead now but if you post I will perhaps reply.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:12:24 2013 No.5875514 >>5875506 There isn't any evidence. It's just a hypothesis. You don't get to know what happens when this life is over, just like the rest of us. You're going to have to deal with it...just like the rest of us.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:14:54 2013 No.5875519 >>5875503 OP is retarded but, ASSUMING that time is indeed infinite, then he is right. "Any type of event that has nonzero probability will happen infinitely many times, usually in widely separated regions that remain forever outside of causal contact"

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:16:24 2013 No.5875523

I believe that time (like something that define events (int special theory of relativity)) will exist as long as the universe exists. In modern cosmology, there's 3 models of the universe.
1. Dark matter will overcome the gravity, and the universe will continue with his expanding, forever, than the time is going to exist forever...
2. Gravity will be equal to dark matter force, still universe will expand...
3. Gravity will overcome the power of the big bang, and the universe will expand a little bit more, than it will gather to a single point (singularity) (no time, no space, absolutely nothing)...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:17:23 2013 No.5875525 >>5875513 >I'm currently working on a way that may perhaps make it so we won't suffer continuously over and over in this or future lives. thisshouldbegood.jpg don'tdrinkthekoolaid.gif hailxenu.png

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:17:54 2013 No.5875526 I'm going crazy. will probably kill myself today. thanks guys

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:18:53 2013 No.5875530

>>5875519
An infinite continuum of "reality" does not logically entail infinite possibilities.

There is absolutely 0 chance of July 1, 2013 13:44:00 happening ever again because as a point in the continuum it already happened. Just as much as an infinite series of 0 and 1 will never contain a 2. Our infinite reality will never contain another yesterday, which I cannot prove empirically but I have just proved analitically.

This implies time travelling is impossible.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:20:23 2013 No.5875533 >>5875526 at some point in infinity there will be a scenario where you dont and keep on suffering

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:20:53 2013 No.5875534 Nop, Lorence's transformations implies that time travel is imposible...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:20:53 2013 No.5875535 >>5875477 Not even a little true.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:20:53 2013 No.5875536 >>5875530 He said every event with a nonzero chance. You just described events with a zero chance (a set of infinite numbers between 0 and 1 containing 2 for example, is an event with a zero chance).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:21:54 2013 No.5875541 >>5875523 this thread is seriously making me hope for 3. idk but OP is getting to me

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:22:23 2013 No.5875543 >>5875535 you dont understand the meaning of infinity

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:23:23 2013 No.5875545 >>5875536 And that is exactly why I said that there is 0 chance of yesterday happening ever again in the exact same way.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:23:53 2013 No.5875548

>>5875526
Please go talk to a real person. You will not receive the kind of interaction here that can save your life, which is a thing worth saving. You seem to be preoccupied with the concept that pain is forever, in this life and all lives. It isn't. The pain you are feeling now is temporary. Don't do anything permanent to solve this temporary problem. A professional can explain this better than I can, and is eager to talk to you today. There is no health professional that does not want to see you right now. You are the reason they got into medicine. Please let them help you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:24:54 2013 No.5875554 5875541 The bad thing with third one is the fact that the big bang will come again after that singularity, that is the model of "pulsing universe" :)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:24:54 2013 No.5875555 >>5875468 I think exaxtly the same way. Theoretically, if time flows eternally, that's exactly what would happen

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:25:23 2013 No.5875556 >>5875545 But we aren't talking about events with a zero chance? The possibility of the pattern of brain activity that OP consists of re-assembling at one point in the future easily has a non-zero chance given a long enough time span.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:25:23 2013 No.5875558 >>5875545 what about me existing in the same way except i get stabbed with needles on my eyes while my fingers are slowly cut with scissors?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:27:24 2013 No.5875561 >>5875481 Quantum fluctuations. Given infinite time anything that can happen, will happen.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:27:24 2013 No.5875562 >>5875556 you fuckers are starting to scare me too

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:29:24 2013 No.5875566 >>5875561 how can people live knowing this?

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:30:24 2013 No.5875568

>>5875562

On the bright side, if the Universe ends in a Heat Death as we believe it to, then the possibility of this happen is only a non-zero chance for a limited period of time. Eventually the last protons in the Universe will decay, and there will be no entropy or matter left to be re-arranged into you, so it will become an event with a zero chance eventually, meaning it would be impossible for this process to occur infinitely.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:31:24 2013 No.5875570 >>5875566 Universe will die.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:33:54 2013 No.5875577

>>5875556
Yes we are, what ever brain pattern there is will not be OP, in the same sense it will never be yesterday again.

There is no chance there will be another "sentient" OP that will be OP in the future, OP is now, not in the future. Just like yesterday was yesterday, not in the future.

You are assuming it is possible to somehow connect two separate brains-consciences that are spacially in the continuum of reality.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:34:53 2013 No.5875579 >>5875548 >caring about the life of an anon let him die so the pain can go away... untill the universe re-arranges him again fuck this thread is making me depressed

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:35:53 2013 No.5875582 >>5875577 And please do not resort to the whole "sleeping" state, your brain is quite active and continiously functional during sleep.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:38:24 2013 No.5875588

>>5875566
Because the status of time as infinite is unknown, and with our limited capacity for understanding, it's far more likely that our predictions for the future of a post-heat-death universe are wrong than it is that they are right.

We're talking about casual hypotheses regarding the universe on a scale of time that can be described by numbers but cannot possibly be comprehended by the human mind. It is a scale of time that is nigh-eternal.

"High up in the North in the land called Svithjod, there stands a rock. It is a hundred miles high and a hundred miles wide. Once every thousand years a little bird comes to this rock to sharpen its beak. When the rock has thus been worn away, then a single day of eternity will have gone by."

—Hendrik Willem Van Loon

If we are to make guesses about the state of the universe a trillion days of eternity from now, we can't place much faith in those guesses being at all accurate.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:38:53 2013 No.5875589 well OP there will be excruciating pain but also tremendous pleasure

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:39:54 2013 No.5875594

>>5875577

>There is no chance there will be another "sentient" OP that will be OP in the future, OP is now, not in the future.

Just like OP will not be the same person fifteen minutes from now. However, the brain is designed to take individual slices of consciousness and stitch them together into what appears to be a seamless experience. Re-assembling OPs exact brain state in the future will have it continue on as normal, as if OP never stopped existing. Sense of self is subjective and wholly dependent on brain states, for all intents and purposes it will be him. To assume otherwise would be to assume that sense of self transcends brain states, which is clear bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:40:25 2013 No.5875595 >>5875589 for humans pain avoidal is far more powerful than pleasure seeking

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:41:27 2013 No.5875600 >>5875594 shhhhh... stop making it worse

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:42:25 2013 No.5875602 >>5875594 Im not OP but how do we cope knowing all this then?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:43:23 2013 No.5875605 >>5875602 see >>5875588

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:43:54 2013 No.5875604

>>5875594
If this actually happens a thousand days of eternity from now, and if I see you, I will admit that you were right and I was wrong. Until that day, I would ask that you stop making staggeringly outlandish claims unsupported by any evidence whatsoever.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:50:55 2013 No.5875618
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No, of course it isn't according to general relativity. Moreover as the universe decays according to entropy and the last giant, swollen black holes evaporate protons themselves will be shredded and there will be no meaningful notion of time. Still, according to the litcone perspective on the universe and given its positive curvature, it's debatable whether the present exists either. It's conceviable the universe is an ever present sortnof crystalline object whose fourth dimension we experience subjectively because of the chemical configuration of our brains as a sequence of events. I mean, what "time" is it 46 billion light years away (diameter of universe given positive curvature)? It certainly isn't the same "time" as it is hear, but instead about 200 years in our past experience of time, yet somehow the two spaces exists locally concurrently according to common sense, whatever the hell that means. If it isn't obvious, I'm inclined to this perspective, if for no other reason than geometric considerations (ie existence of positive curvature). Even so, whatever we call time is no less finite in this set up than in the one suggested by a more lay perspective on how it flows, as both are embedded in a finite universe.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:51:53 2013 No.5875620
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>>5875602

read
>>5875577
You'd be (un)lucky if it even happens once

>>5875604
>thinks sense of self is comprised of more than just brain states
>thinks I'm the one making outlandish claims

ha ha funny guy

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:53:25 2013 No.5875624 >>5875620 I fucked that up. It's supposed to say read >>5875568

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:57:55 2013 No.5875632 does /sci/ has an archive? i need to take a better look at this thread when im feeling less tired

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:58:23 2013 No.5875634 >>5875632 dont do it this thread is unhealthy

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 20:59:53 2013 No.5875636 >>5875632 not unless enough people vote to archive it at 4chanarchive

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:00:54 2013 No.5875638 >>5875618 >as both are embedded in a finite universe that's quite an assumption

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:01:54 2013 No.5875639 >>5875588 Trillion days == 2.7 billion years == not that long Get your numbers right before you try and sound deep, dumbfuck

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:02:53 2013 No.5875643 >>5875636 can we do it plis?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:06:23 2013 No.5875649 OP you've reached a point where you will need to turn to religion, just like all good physicists do

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:09:23 2013 No.5875655

>>5875638
No it isn't, or at least my reasoning is according to the night sky paradox. if the universe was infinite in both scope and time, every point in the sky would be colinear with an infinite number of suns, with sufficient time existing beforehand (ie infinite) for their light to reach Earth. Therefore, night would be impossible. Absurd.

What about the cosmic microwave radiation background that maps for us the early universe? We have observed the scope of the universe. What about the doppler effect which allows us to reckon the approximate age of the universe starting as a singularity? Why am I making an assumption?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:11:54 2013 No.5875663 >>5875400 time is infinite in the direction of our future, but it doesn't matter, because at some point it will seem as though time doesn't pass

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:12:24 2013 No.5875666

>>5875577
>>Identical brains don't mean identical consciousnesses
>Absolutely, buttfucking retarded.

False. OP is defined by his brain's state. If that state ever exists again, it will be OP. His environment may be different, and he may not evolve the same way, but at that moment, his thoughts and memories will be identical. It will be as if OP were cloned.

All you can say is that the two World sheets of these two OP's did not share the same life.

This is absolutely unlike points & intervals in time, which are subsets of an affine space over the Reals.

OP is an element of the configuration space of the brain, which can obviously be repeated (by identical configuration of atoms or by computer simulation)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:14:54 2013 No.5875669 isnt it kind of conforting that you will end up experiencing everything that you wished for and were enable to achieve in this life? jesus people just focus on the positives

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:14:54 2013 No.5875672 >>5875618 the universe isn't positively curved, shithead

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:17:24 2013 No.5875679 >>5875666 >666 t-thanks for making me freak out satan. Arent you scared about the possibility of this? im starting to think that OP will not be the only one going insane from this thread.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:24:55 2013 No.5875699 >>5875669 >at some point i will be simon belmont fighting hordes of skeletons in dracula's castle bueno

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:29:53 2013 No.5875715 >>5875649 >not welcoming the endless pain provided by the infinite existence real scientists arent afraid to directly feel the effects of science (ie: marie curie)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:33:54 2013 No.5875722 i am just an active, instantaneous, fleeting perception that exchanges information with a complex computer that is my brain. Even if someone has the exact same brain as me in the future it will not be me...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:35:55 2013 No.5875727 >>5875722 see >>5875666 >>5875556

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:39:24 2013 No.5875732

>>5875679
No, why would I be?

And it's not a matter of probability. The heat death will end the universe before temporal repeats occur.

But if the universe is truly spatially infinite, or large enough that very small numbers become significant (something absurdly big like 10^10^1000 lightyears), then another you exists somewhere else.

But there's nothing you can do about it, and it has absolutely no effect on you. You are nothing other than a brain. Try not to die soon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:45:24 2013 No.5875745 File: 71 KB, 768x576, heres-johnny.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >IIII WHAT THE FUCKKKKKKKKKKK

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:47:24 2013 No.5875747 >>5875745 im feeling ill thanks too this thread. enough /sci/ for today

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:47:55 2013 No.5875749 >>5875715 >marie curie She had no idea she was slowly killing herself, how does that possibly count? If she had known she probably would have been afraid enough to take precautions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:49:25 2013 No.5875752 >>5875732 >The heat death will end the universe before temporal repeats occur. how do you know that? and what's stoping another universe to be created after that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:52:55 2013 No.5875758 >>5875485 Wasn't that an episode of Jimmy Neutron?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:56:26 2013 No.5875772 >>5875747 same. fuck the universe

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 21:59:24 2013 No.5875782

>>5875752

Again, read
>>5875568

With no matter left to re-assemble, it will become impossible for it to occur. If another Universe occurs, that means the Heat-Death was incorrect and the Universe ended some other way. A new Universe occurring is incompatible with the Heat-Death hypothesis. Luckily for you, it's the most likely hypothesis at the current time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 22:31:24 2013 No.5875853 >>5875639 A trillion days of eternity Each day of eternity equals 10^32 years A trillion days of eternity would be 10^44 years, or more than a billion, billion, billion, billion years. Read the entire post before you insult the poster.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 22:42:53 2013 No.5875877

Clearly there are two possible answers your question, unfortunately it is difficult to narrow it down any further than that. Both are actually rather depressing when you think about it. The far future makes me sad.

1. Yes, Time is infinite. This could be true in one of two scenarios. Either the universe will exist forever, or the existence of time is not predicated on the existence of the universe. The latter hypothesis being well beyond the realm of "science". It is quite possible that the universe will in fact never end. That we are living in the bright spark of the first few instants of time and will watch as the eons wither the universe away until even matter itself decays to nothing. The galaxies will redshift and disappear over the cosmic horizon. The stars will shrivel and blink out in the sky. Fundamental particles will fall into black holes or decay, and the universe will be nothing. An infinite black homogenous soup of everything that ever mattered. Anything and anyone that has ever existed or ever will exist will be lost and forgotten. All of creation will have in the end been futile. Your future as a human being probably won't have mattered anyway.

2. No, time will one day come to an end. Somehow at some point in the future, the universe will end. Some say the universe will expand until it rips itself apart in as little as a few billion years. Others say the expansion of the universe will cease and the universe will collapse in on itself. Perhaps we'll do it ourselves while attempting to create the latest and greatest weapons with the fringes of physics. However, be it God's will or man's stupidity, the universe will die, along with all those keeping refuge from the void within it. Anything and anyone that has ever existed or ever will exist will be lost and forgotten. All of creation will have in the end been futile. Your future as a human being probably won't have mattered anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 22:46:25 2013 No.5875882 >>5875437 This was on "Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman" a few days ago.

Anonymous Tue Jul 2 23:01:54 2013 No.5875913
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>>5875877
>Others say the expansion of the universe will cease and the universe will collapse in on itself. Perhaps we'll do it ourselves while attempting to create the latest and greatest weapons with the fringes of physics

Haha! Yes, humans sure do pose a threat... *to the universe!* No. No, no, no, we don't. Not now. Not ever. We are nothing to the universe. We are nothing even to the *galaxy* that itself is nothing to the universe. To imagine ourselves as a threat to *it. all.* is ludicrous.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 2 23:21:23 2013 No.5875932 >>5875400 Progress. Diversity is the prime directive

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 00:17:55 2013 No.5876006 Babby's first existential crisis. Welcome to the human condition, OP. You'll get used to it. :) Please, nobody tell OP that freewill is an illusion. I fear for his life. (Just bugging you brah)

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 00:58:29 2013 No.5876066

>>5875913
>Not now. Not ever.

«There is practically no chance communications space satellites will be used to provide better telephone, telegraph, television, or radio service inside the United States.»
T. Craven, FCC Commissioner, in 1961 (the first commercial communications satellite went into service in 1965).
«Space travel is utter bilge.»
Richard Van Der Riet Woolley, upon assuming the post of Astronomer Royal in 1956.

«To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the controlling gravitational field of the moon where the passengers can make scientific observations, perhaps land alive, and then return to earth - all that constitutes a wild dream worthy of Jules Verne. I am bold enough to say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of all future advances.»
Lee DeForest, American radio pioneer and inventor of the vacuum tube, in 1926

«... too far-fetched to be considered.»
Editor of Scientific American, in a letter to Robert Goddard about Goddard's idea of a rocket-accelerated airplane bomb, 1940 (German V2 missiles came down on London 3 years later).

«A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth's atmosphere.»
New York Times, 1936.

«The energy produced by the breaking down of the atom is a very poor kind of thing. Anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation of these atoms is talking moonshine.»
Ernest Rutherford, shortly after splitting the atom for the first time.

«There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.»
Albert Einstein, 1932.

«There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom.»
Robert Millikan, American physicist and Nobel Prize winner, 1923.

Please be very careful with the word never. Humanity has a way of surprising itself.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 02:15:55 2013 No.5876148

>>5875877
>All of creation will have in the end been futile. Your future as a human being probably won't have mattered anyway.
this is what OP is hoping for and would be quite a conforting scenario

>This was on "Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman" a few days ago.
link?

>Please, nobody tell OP that freewill is an illusion. I fear for his life.
Im not OP but that never bothered me in the slightest. Now the point he brought up is creepy as fuck and whoever doesnt get scared doesnt really understand it's implications.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 02:22:55 2013 No.5876165 embrace jesus christ and you wont have to go through any of that nonsense

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 02:40:55 2013 No.5876208 this is the first time /sci/ is making my brain hurt

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 03:10:24 2013 No.5876245 After heat death, will there be time?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 03:17:25 2013 No.5876254 >>5875666 NO. NO. NO NO NO. YOU ARE WRONG RETARD. FUCKING DUALISTIC FUCKS. ONCE PHYSICAL BRAIN STATE IS DESTROYED, RECREATING IT WILL BE A SEPERATE BRAIN STATE.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 03:17:54 2013 No.5876255 >>5875727 You are wrong and a fucking idiot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 03:27:08 2013 No.5876262 >>5876245 probably, but there won't be any way to measure it

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 03:36:08 2013 No.5876279 Everything in the universe exists relative to a single constant. Self awareness means the brain is creating a (incomplete) simulation of the universe. Everything in this simulated universe exists relative to the same previously mentioned constant.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 09:27:08 2013 No.5876622 >>5876254 >>5876255 how can you be this stupid?

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 13:16:09 2013 No.5876897

>>5876254
This isn't dualism you stupid faggot. It's basic logic.

Electrons and quarks are INDISTINGUISHABLE fermions. If you recreate an object IDENTICALLY from electrons and quarks, it will be indistinguishable from the original.

The brain "state" which corresponds to a particular person's consciousness is a strict, nonunique subset of the atomic configuration of their brain, so it will be trivially RECREATED.

As I said, this identical consciousness will probably lead a different life, diverging at that point. But it was, at a fundamental level, identical to the brain it was cloned from.

It didn't exist at the same time, and its World-Sheet is different. But that's all you can say about it. Fundamental particles are indistinguishable. The only thing that uniquely defines you is your configuration of atoms. One might say the new brain is another instantiation of your brain.

The same is true for consciousness. It exists at a logical level. If you perfectly reproduce the physical layer, the logical layer will be reproduced too. Imagine a computer running an AI process. If you atomically duplicated the computer, the AI process would be copied, bit-by-bit. After copy, its execution may diverge. But at the instant of copy its memory state is identical.

And this is Physicalism. There is no second substance. There are no nonphysical epiphenomenons. The physical configuration IS the state of consciousness.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 13:36:38 2013 No.5876930 >>5876897 Can you please keep the psychotic spiritualism and pseudoscience drivel in >>>/x/?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 13:59:08 2013 No.5876971 File: 933 KB, 200x200, deal with it.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5876930 >religious/dualist faggot who can't handle being nonunique like I said, basic logic. stop crying and provide a refutation or kill yourself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 14:18:08 2013 No.5877010 >>5876971 You are the one who posted dualism in >>5876897. Dualism does not belong on a science board. /x/ is the right board for you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 14:52:40 2013 No.5877071 File: 53 KB, 400x504, mittens.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5877010 >thinks physicalism is dualism >contradicts with zero supporting statements

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 15:00:12 2013 No.5877087 >>5877071 In your post >>5876897 you implied the existence of a soul/consciousness: >As I said, this identical consciousness will probably lead a different life Please keep dualism out of /sci/. Science is about observable phenomena.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 15:11:42 2013 No.5877103 >>5877071 >physicalism >belief in a soul Choose exactly one. And take that shit to >>>/x/ please.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 15:23:04 2013 No.5877117
File: 69 KB, 300x300, count to potato.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5877087
>>thinks consciousness == soul
>>thinks consciousness is unscientific

Jesus christ, how many chromosomes do you have? Consciousness != soul. Consciousness is a physical phenomenon, widely studied by science. See Neuroscience, Psychology, Cognitive Science, AI in computer science, etc.

I never mentioned souls. I never mentioned nonphysical consciousnesses. Your oxygen-deprived, schizophrenic mind imagined that. LRN2READ

>>5877103
Again, YOU mentioned souls. No one here (except you, clearly) believes in a soul. If you have trouble understanding this, please kill yourself.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 15:29:35 2013 No.5877124

>>5877117
There is no such thing as a consciousness. Science is about physical phenomena. Every physical phenomen has to have physically observable effects. A "phenomenon" without observable effects can be considered non-existent by application of Hitchens' razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Non-interacting spirits belong on >>>/x/ and not on /sci/. Please stop trolling our science board. We get this shit everyday on this board and we're all sick of it. You're not clever, you're not funny. Dualism is simply retarded and unscientific and by using synonyms your garbage doesn't become less idiotic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 15:32:04 2013 No.5877130 >>5877117 0/10 Science avoids spiritualism vocabulary.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 15:41:34 2013 No.5877145 File: 9 KB, 170x171, IIII.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Time is the fourth spatial dimension seen from our 3D flatland perspective. 4D beings experience time as a cyclic pattern of inward/outward motion. [external source not citable]

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 16:07:06 2013 No.5877198 >>5877145 no

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 16:56:35 2013 No.5877353 >>5877117 >See Neuroscience, Psychology, Cognitive Science, AI in computer science, etc. All of those are full of evidence AGAINST your /x/ nonsense.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 17:04:05 2013 No.5877371

OP, apart from all the other replies in this thread (we have no reason to think time is infinite, other copies of you would not actually be you, think about the following three arguments):

1- Lets say by a trillion trillion etc to one chance an exact copy of you came to life in the room next to you. Would it be you? If someone put a gun to your head a shot you would you consciousness "jump" into the clones head? No. You would die.

2 - If you are right, and you will live forever, being reborn over and over with every possibility happening (Bearing in mind, this "horrible" future you are scared of includes fucking 1,000 supermodels in a row, banging Asari, cuddling safe with your waifu in a warm blanket, being master chief and not afraiding of anything ) then this situation of you browsing /sci/ worrying will also reoccur an infinite amount of times, with you unable to tell the difference. So in other words you are likely already incredibly old and have just been randomly constructed in 1 Gorillion years AD right now (If you will live on Earth once, and therefore be reborn for ever, including and infinite number of lives when you THINK you are young on Earth, surely it is more likely that you are already really old? And it doesn't seem too bad right?

3 - it's obviously not true. What the fuck are you smoking? This time next year you will be running around laughing carefree, and if you remember this at all you will cringe

Generally speaking this sort of speculation is interesting to think about, but not something to worry about. SERIOUSLY, LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF CRAZY FUCKING SHIT PEOPLE HAVE BELIEVED ABOUT THE UNIVERSE, THE POSSIBILITY OF AN AFTERLIFE ETC BASED ON NOT KNOWING ANYTHING AND NOW YOU ARE CONVINCED THIS IS SERIOUSLY LIKELY BASED ON A FEW DAYS ARMCHAIR REASONING AND SOME IN-YOUR HEAD MATHS?

So Relax - it's going to be OK. I'm a girl btw.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 17:04:37 2013 No.5877372 >>5875443 Temperature doesn't exist, thermometers exist Electricity doesn't exist, voltmeters exist etc etc. You are retarded.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 17:17:05 2013 No.5877394 >>5877124 I have the evidence

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 17:23:05 2013 No.5877406 >>5877403 meant to reply to >>5877371

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 17:23:37 2013 No.5877403

>1- Lets say by a trillion trillion etc to one chance an exact copy of you came to life in the room next to you. Would it be you? If someone put a gun to your head a shot you would you consciousness "jump" into the clones head? No. You would die.
its cool and all to give the guy hope, but this is untrue. see >>5876897 >>5875666
>>5875594

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 17:27:08 2013 No.5877411 >>5877371 >SERIOUSLY, LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF CRAZY FUCKING SHIT PEOPLE HAVE BELIEVED ABOUT THE UNIVERSE ahahaha these plebs in 2013 thought that time wasnt infinite - Isaac Hawkstein, 2128

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:19:04 2013 No.5877916 >>5877130 >religious faggot I never used "spiritualism vocabulary." You're lying to yourself. foxnews/10

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:22:34 2013 No.5877921 >>5875568 >mfw quantum fluctuations

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:25:04 2013 No.5877931 >>5875514 >You don't get to know what happens when this life is over How do you know? >mfw we are all part of one huge mind, the mind of God

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:30:34 2013 No.5877938 >>5875523 Singularity, then another big bong?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:32:04 2013 No.5877944 File: 137 KB, 717x880, back to reddit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5877124 >fails to troll 0/10 faggot Leave now.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:32:04 2013 No.5877945

There is no way you will feel infinite pain unless you have an infinite existence that feels pain....just because atoms will eventually rearrange into your exact position (if certain hypotheses are correct), does not mean you will be conscious again or something. It will be a separate temporal being.

To illustrate this point, imagine I make an exact copy of you right now. Will you be conscious in two bodies, controlling two at the same? Or will you continue to live as one being? The latter, of course.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:33:03 2013 No.5877948 >>5876254 You are the one who is being the Dualist here you stupid motherfucker

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:34:04 2013 No.5877953 How could time possibly be destroyed?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:34:34 2013 No.5877951 >>5875594 >for all intents and purposes it will be him Please leave.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:36:34 2013 No.5877957 >>5877951 Why?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:37:04 2013 No.5877961 >>5875655 What do you mean infinite in scope? Of course it's infinite in scope. Do you think I would hit a cosmic wall if I could somehow move incredibly fast, faster than the expansion of the universe and the speed of light? What is time?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:39:33 2013 No.5877964 >>5877124 Oh my god. It's you again. Fuck you and your Hitchen's Razor.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:40:34 2013 No.5877970
File: 321 KB, 477x392, full potato.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5877124
you just asserted consciousness doesnt exist. therefore you oppose all of psychology and cognitive science. who belongs in >>>/x/ now?

moreover, if consciousness doesn't exist, then by
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness
you do not have "sentience, awareness, subjectivity, the ability to experience or to feel, or wakefulness."

your statement could not be more foolish. nor more deserving of /x/. please stop spewing your garbage and leave

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:44:33 2013 No.5877976 File: 124 KB, 600x796, 1351805964810.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] consciousness trolls successfully devastate /sci/ once again when will /sci/ cease being retarded and stop responding to these trolls? We may never know.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:46:04 2013 No.5877981 >>5877976 which is the troll?

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:48:34 2013 No.5877987

>>5877981

The ones that imply consciousness doesn't exist. Where have you been for the past 1+ years? They are all over this board. You'd think most regulars of /sci/ would be able to stop them as completely obvious trolls by now. I've even seen some of them openly admit they are trolling before.

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:54:03 2013 No.5877997

>>5877124
>>says consciousness isn't physical
>>calls others dualists
>can't stop sucking cocks

Conscoiusness obviously exists. Most animals with a sufficiently developed brain have some form of consciousness.

Consciousness is an emergent neural phenomenon. As as subset of the brain's neural activity, it is as physical as any neural activity.

>>5877964
Hitchen's Razor is valid, but this faggot is using it incorrectly.

Assuming "a consciousness" is the same thing as "a mind" (it is), then you can cite every single paper in psychology and cognitive science as evidence for the existence of the human mind.

http://cognitivesciencesociety.org/journal_csj.html
http://www.press.uillinois.edu/journals/ajp.html

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:55:34 2013 No.5878000 >>5875468 this is also in brian greene's Hidden Reality, but i think it's a load of crap, because this assumes that matter is infinite and i do not believe that matter/energy are infinite ... yes, i realize i said "believe"

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 22:56:04 2013 No.5878003 >>5875479 oh louis, louis, louis ... always whining. could you believe i had to listen to this for 200 years

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 23:03:34 2013 No.5878013

>>5875506
time is a dependent on motion ... if we weren't moving there would be no time, which is why a photon doesn't experience time. a photon experiences anything instantaneously. anywho, infinite time requires that the universe never runs out of things to do, which requires an infinite amount of stuff, which probably doesn't exist because .... well idk .... i'm not a brain surgeon! i imagine that if matter/energy were infinite, there'd be a lot more of it

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 23:06:34 2013 No.5878020 >>5875526 i think you're pretty dumb. i would laugh at you if i knew you, and be your friend, because this whole thing makes me like you, lol. "the fucking catalina wine-mixer."

Anonymous Wed Jul 3 23:07:34 2013 No.5878024

>>5877371
> other copies of you would not actually be you

That's not what anyone's saying. The question is whether the minds of separate, identical brains would be identical. (properly, whether the neural processes that result in consciousness would be identical). Since the human mind is entirely physical, being the result of physical neural activity in the brain, the answer is trivially yes.

However this doesn't mean these minds would be connected / related / anything that retarded. They're separate, local, physical entities, and they will evolve according to the laws of physics. And being in a different environment, the two brains' physical states will immediately diverge.

Making a copy of a functioning brain will give you a separate, sentient, self-aware brain, which – at that instant – contains the same thoughts and memories as the source brain. In effect, the minds of these brains are identical. But assuming these brains aren't exposed to physically identical circumstances (HIGHLY LIKELY), the neural processes that make up their minds will evolve to different states.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 23:08:03 2013 No.5878031 >>5875534 >>5878028 kill yourself

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 3 23:08:04 2013 No.5878028 >>5875534 >Lorence's transformations You're forgetting Chismen's

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 4 12:40:05 2013 No.5879081 are you still alive OP?

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