/sci/ - Science & Math

[Europa Ventures LLC No.5871640]

• liquid water on Europa
• certain to be life?

[Anonymous No.5871647]

>>5871640

these movies about aliens on planets in the solar system are getting old. There's been a lot of them lately, it seems like.

[Anonymous No.5871655]

Europa receives 540 rem of radiation a day from Jupiter's magnetosphere.
500 is a fatal dose for humans.

Their might be microbial life. But nothing like our oceans.

[Anonymous No.5871662]

>>5871647
At least they aren't superhero movies. Or remakes. Or reboots.

Or remakes of reboots of superhero movies. Fuck you, Hollywood.

[Anonymous No.5871673]

>>5871655
What is oceanic life?
What is radiation shielding?
What is kilometers of ice?

[Anonymous No.5871686]

>>5871655
Well, it's not exactly likely that there will be anything similar to humans there anyway, is there.

All it means that if there's any life, they will either be resistant to higher doses of radiation, or are in areas shielded from it.

[Anonymous No.5871695]

This movie was...
Eh.

[Anonymous No.5871704]

>>5871640


>found footage

[Anonymous No.5871723]

>>5871686
the handy thing about ionizing radiation is that it effects everything.
If it has atoms it can be effected by ionising radiation.
Unless their bodies are composed entirely of highly reactive ions rather than stable ones which is millions of times less likely to occur than how life on earth is thought to have occurred.

[Anonymous No.5871729]

Just finished watching this 10 minutes ago. Was ok until near the end.

[Anonymous No.5871790]

>>5871723
>the handy thing about ionizing radiation is that it effects everything.
Unless the everything is under ten kilometers of ice.
And submerged.

Like life would tend to be, on Europa.

[Anonymous No.5871834]

>>5871723
And the handy thing about water is that it is a great insulator of radiation.

[Anonymous No.5872588]

we were warned

[Anonymous No.5872640]

Where there is water, but is there Montmorillonite clay?

Liquid water is necessary for life (According to our knowledge), but not sufficient.

[Anonymous No.5872665]

>>5872588
Yeah too bad 2010 is shit compared to 2001 so no one cared.

[Anonymous No.5872683]

>>5872665
I hope you mean the movie

[Anonymous No.5874353]

>>5871640
Just finished that movie. It kicked ass. Think about how the oceans of Europa have been around for billions of years. Thats plenty of time for like to evolve.

[Anonymous No.5874387]

>>5874353
What about feels? Did they evolve?

[Anonymous No.5874399]

Not by a long shot. While it is looking likely that Europa does have the bare necessities to support life deep under its surface, people forget that once you have have life, you can be very flexible. Abiogenesis however is a very complex, long and fragile process, and Europa doesn't seem like it is or ever has been even nearly dynamic enough to kickstart life. In the off-chance that there is life on Europa, it will very, very likely be of Terran origin.

[Anonymous No.5874410]

>>5871647

I wouldn't mind if they were done well and unique and not cliché pieces of shit that butcher everything we ever dreamed life on Europa would be like. Its just made to pander to low-powerlevel "nerds" who say they like space but think there's aliens on other planets, the kind of people who watch Big Bang Theory non-ironically.

[Anonymous No.5874418]

Just imagine the shitstorm if we were to find a civilization in europa's oceans.


No, stop it, don't argue, I know it's extremely "impossible", just imagine it.

Do you feel it? Do you feel the global sticky on 4chan which says "WE ICE ALIENS NOW"?
Do you feel the massive amount of butthurt on /pol/?

Do you feel the astronomical shitstorm that would devastate the butt of conservative people all across the world?

[Anonymous No.5874435]

>>5874418
I'm curious as to how we would react on a diplomatic level.

They are water based creatures and probably much less advanced than we are (can't detect heat from their hypothetical reactors etc). Would we exterminate them without ever informing the masses of their existence? (Via a water-borne bacteria/virus or some shit)
Or would we conclude after a thorough risk analysis that they don't pose much of a threat and attempt real communication?

What would their structures be like? How would they make them? What would water based intelligent life even look like? Tool use? Rudimentary computers using their equivalent to hole-punch cards? etc etc etc

[Anonymous No.5874457]

>>5874418
>>5874435
Do you guys mean, like, intelligent aliens with civilization and stuff? That's pointless. We know there aren't. We'd have seen them.

I know you said don't argue, but if you're going to ask for that sort of suspension of disbelief, you might as well say "imagine if there were dinosaurs in France".

[Anonymous No.5874546]

>>5874418
>>5874435
>>5874457
I'm sure they didn't mean intelligent life. At least not the kind that would leave any detectable electromagentic signature or anything. Maybe something more like dolphins..
But, as they said, it almost certainly is not the case. Just good fun to imagine it.

[Anonymous No.5874551]

>>5874457
Do you guys mean, like, intelligent dinosaurs with civilization and stuff? That's pointless. We know there aren't. We'd have seen them.

I know you said don't argue, but if you're going to ask for that sort of suspension of disbelief, you might as well say "imagine if there were x-men in France".

[Anonymous No.5874552]

>>5874546
If it's non intelligent why would anyone care. It would be exactly like that time a video of the Giant Squid was made: Nobody gave a fuck.

[Anonymous No.5874555]

>>5874551

[Anonymous No.5874567]

>>5874552
>If it's non intelligent why would anyone care
Wait.... Are there really people this retarded on /sci/?

Please just leave and never come back.

I want to explain to you how absolutely stupid that comment was, but I feel like I would be wasting my time on you

[Anonymous No.5874569]

>>5874567
The person who brought it up was predicting a shitstorm on /pol/. Like fuck /pol/ would care about some slimy fish on Europa. They're too busy arguing over Trayvon vs. Zimmerman. The world doesn't care about animals. Get real.

[Anonymous No.5874572]

>>5871723

Aren't tardigrades highly resistant to ionizing radiation?

[Anonymous No.5874575]

>>5874569

>alien life
>'animal'

[Anonymous No.5874580]

>>5874569
>The world doesn't care about animals.
Yep, you really are that dumb

Look at my pic. ALL life we have EVER observed comes from a SINGLE event.

We have absolutely no measure of how common that event is because we have ONE data point. There has never been an instance of life forming independently, it all comes from this one event that occured in our past.

Life existing on another planet EVEN IF IT WAS JUST BACTERIA, would have astounding implications that would effect how we view our place in the cosmos and what we know about life in very profound ways.

If you still can't see that then you are literally hopeless.

[Anonymous No.5874581]

>>5874575
If it moves around, that's what Joe /pol/ack will see it as.

Are you done grasping at straws yet? FYI: My point is that discovery of non intelligent aliens will create very little effect on the public.

[Anonymous No.5874604]

>>5874580
Are you stupid, or did you accidentally dig yourself into a nasty position and are now trying to roll with it?

What does your picture have to do with the average person's perception of what is an important political issue or not?

[Anonymous No.5874765]

>>5874604
>The world doesn't care about animals
>The world doesn't care about animals
>The world doesn't care about animals
>The world
>The world

>why would anyone care about intelligent life
>why would anyone care about intelligent life
>why would anyone care about intelligent life
>anyone

quit saying one thing and then switching your position when someone calls you out on your bullshit.

[Anonymous No.5874769]

>>5874604
>>5874604
>The world doesn't care about animals
>The world

>why would anyone care about non-intelligent life
>anyone

quit saying one thing and then switching your position when someone calls you out on your bullshit.

[Anonymous No.5874781]

Who gives a shit about /pol/ thinks, I came to this thread to talk about the possibility of life on Europa and Europa's geology as a secondary topic. Who gives a fuck what people who don't care about it think.

[Anonymous No.5874785]

>>5871655
from wikipedia
Radiation – tardigrades can withstand 1,000 times more radiation than other animals,[30] median lethal doses of 5,000 Gy (of gamma-rays) and 6,200 Gy (of heavy ions) in hydrated animals (5 to 10 Gy could be fatal to a human).[31] The only explanation found in earlier experiments for this ability was that their lowered water state provides fewer reactants for the ionizing radiation.[32] However, subsequent research found that tardigrades, when hydrated, still remain highly resistant to shortwave UV radiation in comparison to other animals, and that one factor for this is their ability to efficiently repair damage to their DNA resulting from that exposure.[33]

[Anonymous No.5874790]

>>5874572
>>5874785

dat hivemind

[Anonymous No.5874799]

>>5874785

Do you think if we could get them under the ice tardigrades could survive there? Although I supose if they could do it they would have done it by now.

[Anonymous No.5874806]

>>5874569
I completely agree with this.
The post 50s generations have been brought up with the idea alien life exists.
If we find some alien animal the only uproar it's going to cause is people whining there's not interstelar tourism service available so they can go hunt some spacecrabs.

Human logic
>find aliens
>non intelligent
Can we eat it/tame it ?
>intelligent
Can we fuck it ?

[Anonymous No.5874819]

>>5874806

Why do you care so much? Do you give a shit if Mick Jagger dies? No, neither do I, but there's some people who would really give a shit about you not giving a shit. You sound like them.

[Anonymous No.5874820]

>>5874806
I sincerely hope you are talking about the less bright general population.

Anyone of moderate intelligence, and definitely anyone with a scientific background will see it this way
>>5874580

Am I still on /sci/? What the fuck happened to this place?
There's honestly people on /sci/ who think finding even non-intelligent _life_ on another planet would be anything less than a defining point in human discovery...

why do I even come here anymore? Is it really this infested with normalfags?

[Anonymous No.5874826]

>>5874769
I hate to say this but you are being autistic in how you misinterpret my words.

When I said:
>If it's non intelligent why would anyone care. It would be exactly like that time a video of the Giant Squid was made: Nobody gave a fuck.

I did not mean literally nobody would care. The post was in response to a conversation about the discovery of aliens creating shitstorms on 4chan, /pol/ and for conservatives around the world. "Anyone", in this context, should be understood to mean "the vast majority of the people belonging to these groups".

Indeed, if you wish to be pedantic in this fashion, I was also "wrong" when I likened this to the recent observation of the Giant Squid. It was not at all the case that "nobody gave a fuck". Many scientists are, to this day I'm sure, discussing the implications.

But as you hopefully understand now, we were never discussing scientists. "Anyone" refers expressly to non-scientists, in fact, by subtext, to anti-intellectuals. Scientists would obviously care very much, which is why I took the liberty of saying "anyone" instead of the clumsier "most non-intellectual groups earlier mentioned".

I think you were just itching to start a fight with someone who doesn't share your enthusiasm for xenobiology, and in your eagerness, you've shot the messenger. Is there even any purpose to this stupid argument other than building unresolvable sexual tension?

[Anonymous No.5874838]

>>5874826
>unresolvable sexual tension
care to resolve it?

[Anonymous No.5874849]

>>5874806
I think it will run the usual media gauntlet for 1-2 weeks, when there will be intense discussion from talking heads and many hee-larious jokes and memes will be created, filtered through reddit, and strewn about facebook's many I <3 Science groups.

Then another school shooting or something will come up, and everyone will move on. Conservatives will not be perturbed by it, because they will rationalize or deny it, like creationists do with dinosaur fossils. Only moderates (that means moderate conservative non-scientists, >>5874769 !) already on the brink of conversion would be affected.

>>5874820
No, the child just got overexcited. See >>5874826

[Anonymous No.5874852]

>>5874838
I thought you'd never ask.

*whips out dick*

[Anonymous No.5874902]

>>5874551
Do you guys mean, like, intelligent x-men with civilization and stuff? That's pointless. We know there aren't. We'd have seen them.

I know you said don't argue, but if you're going to ask for that sort of suspension of disbelief, you might as well say "imagine if there were flying cars in France".

[Anonymous No.5874950]

Hypothetical scenario:

Intelligent aliens on another planet reached a technological level similar to ours centuries ago. At the end of their equivalent of the space race (initial forays into space), they did not stagnate like us but continued to pursue the goal of manned space travel and space colonization.

The aliens experiment with various different approaches, among these inducing cryogenic sleep in the passengers of a relativistic long range exploration vessel. During testing with a single alien test pilot/astronaut, the vessel goes out of control and shoots off into space at fractions of light speed, and travels many light years towards earth.

By impossible coincidence, it decelerates within Earth's gravity well, ends up on a re-entry orbit, and the automated emergency systems are able to land the ship somewhere in Nevada. World militaries detect it as it enters the atmosphere, and decide to only observe until it has landed. The small life support pod survives, but the rest of the ship has disintegrated during re-entry.

Unbeknown to humanity, the pod has scanned Earth atmosphere and determined it safe for the alien. The cryogenic system is working as expected and begins awakening the pilot, a process that takes hours. Also unknown: Soon after the ship began its journey, the alien civilization wiped itself out completely in a global war - so it hasn't existed for hundreds of years.

What would happen on Earth?

[Anonymous No.5874968]

>>5874418
/pol/ here

why would we be butthurt?

[Anonymous No.5874970]

>>5874968
>/pol/ here

Run along back there, pls.

[Anonymous No.5874980]

>>5874970
make me

[Anonymous No.5874983]

>>5874968
Well he probably thinks you are only conservative because you are hardcore Christian bible thumpers. So he thinks that discovery of alien life will immediately make your theological position untenable.

[Anonymous No.5874986]

>>5874980

I can't make you, that's why I said pls.

[Anonymous No.5875023]

>>5874983
Majority of /pol/ hates religion and only likes the cultural aspects of Christianity, we would rather money go in to space exploration than in to third worlders in the form of welfare

[Anonymous No.5875052]

>>5875023
Tell me, Ive always wondered, how much of /pol/s worldview genuine, and how much of it is LE IRONY 2EDGY5U?

Can you even tell anymore?

[Anonymous No.5875074]

>>5874950

The aliens would have gone bankrupt pretty quickly. There's a reason we lay off on the space for a bit.

[Anonymous No.5875145]

watch the mission broadcast online:
>http://www.europaventuresllc.com/

[Anonymous No.5875167]

>>5875052
Pic related.

[Anonymous No.5875176]

>>5875167
That was......actually deep. *claps*

[Anonymous No.5875222]

>>5875167
quote is fake but applies.

[Anonymous No.5875226]

>>5875222
wut

Who said it then?

>inb4 some nobodoy in the 50s talking about something completely unrelated

[Anonymous No.5875238]

>>5874820
>Am I still on /sci/? What the fuck happened to this place?

>There's honestly people on /sci/ who think finding even non-intelligent _life_ on another planet would be anything less than a defining point in human discovery...

Are you serious? Are you honestly telling me you care about the discovery of life on another planet?

Because if you honestly cared, you'd know that intelligent extraterrestrial life is already well documented, but you're just going to ignore any evidence.

If you honestly cared, you would have seen this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

But you're not even going to watch that, are you? Because it's too long, and in the end it just doesn't matter to you, or to anyone.

[Anonymous No.5875280]

>>5875167
should've taken Spinoza instead, he looked more like Descartes

[Anonymous No.5875302]

>>5875238
lel this board sure is shit

[Anonymous No.5875761]

>>5875302
That's what I thought, asshole. You don't care at all.

[Anonymous No.5875810]

>>5874410

You sound like you take things too seriously. I'm going to watch this film just to irritate you.

[Anonymous No.5875904]

>>5875810
>You sound like you take things too seriously. I'm going to watch this film just to irritate you.

I think you'd be disappointed to find that there's no way for them to actually see you watching the film, so they won't be irritated by simply you saying that you will watch the film.

[Anonymous No.5877079]

>>5875238
>Because if you honestly cared, you'd know that intelligent extraterrestrial life is already well documented, but you're just going to ignore any evidence.


WE /x/ NOW

But seriously, get out.

[Anonymous No.5877082]

>>5875238
>Because if you honestly cared, you'd know that intelligent extraterrestrial life is already well documented, but you're just going to ignore any evidence.

WE /x/ NOW

Get out.

[Anonymous No.5877091]

Shit, Captain! Sensors indicate that shit is colder'n Romulan pussy.

[Anonymous No.5877196]

>>5877079
>>5877082
>>5875302
Yeah, thought so assholes! You don't really care at all!

[Anonymous No.5877756]

>>5875302
>>5877079
>>5877082
Can't argue against the evidence, huh? Thought so, dipshits.

[Anonymous No.5877797]

>>5871723
yea, and if an organism has sophisticated or robust enough repair mechanisms then it doesn't really matter

[Anonymous No.5877805]

>>5872640
Ice phase Eutectic systems do actually present a feasible space for RNA oligermization. So it does present another possibility

[Sceak !!LciZj2frsW6 No.5877813]

>>5871640

Water != life.

It helps, but life on Earth formed from gases and lightning, as demonstrated in the Miller–Urey experiment. Those proteins combined in ye olde primordial goop, recombined to form molecules, eventually cells, etc.

[Anonymous No.5877814]

>>5877813
water can become gas too

[Anonymous No.5877860]

>>5871647
John Carter and what else?

[Anonymous No.5877922]

>>5872588
>>5872665
>>5872683

2010 the movie is fucking awful. I tried to like it, I really truly did. Such a god damn shame too, I expected so much more.

[Anonymous No.5878093]

# "its ocean could be loaded with oxygen"
>http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/3528/hunting-for-fossils-on-europa

[Anonymous No.5878097]

If we don't find life would we put some there on purpose?

Not accidental contamination but deliberate seeds of life.