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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5841557 No.5841557 [Reply] [Original]

Did anyone watch Bill Maher's show on Friday? There was a documentary filmmaker on who was discussing fracking. He made a bunch of claims and when one of the panelists, who was English, suggested that science doesn't support those claims the audience started hissing and booing. The filmmaker's response was basically "I'm an American", which made the audience cheer, and "the problems with fracking can't be fixed".

I had this misconception that the Democrats were champions of science, but after seeing this, and hearing so much about the anti-GMO folks, I'm not sure anyone appreciates its importance in America.

>> No.5841658

If by fracking, you mean that attempt by big oil and gas to prolong their dieing industry and thus holding up real progress in the development of energy technologies. Then yes I can see how people might hate it and anyone who defends it.

>> No.5841676

>He made a bunch of claims

claims? dont you mean facts? we can empirically measure how much fracking fluid is leaking into the ground water

what exactly was he claiming?

>> No.5841683

Should have been an easy point to make that wellhead problems have nothing to do with fracking specifically, but the presence of the well. It did seem a bit like peasants with pitchforks and torches.

>> No.5841682

>>5841676

I saw the show, and I am curious about this as well. I've got it downloaded so I'll try to transcribe his specific 'claims'.

>> No.5841695
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5841695

To be honest:

Pro's: Fracking provides cheap energy that can replace coal and act as a bridge to better energy sources. If the money for your fuel bill stays within the country rather than lining some sandnigger prince's pockets thats a definite plus. Provides jobs and energy security. Cheap energy helps the economy and a booming economy is the best thing to help change from fossil fuels to alternatives.

Con's: Yep, it pollutes. Not as much as that guy suggested, at least not usually. There are quite a few simply shoddy gas wells built by cowboy drillers that leak fuckloads of gas into the air and who dump the fracking fluid into the nearest ditch. Larger companies are better, 'cos they realise that leaking gas means leaking profits and take steps to fix it. Is it perfect? Oh hell no. Is it going to be the end of the world? No, not really. A lot of the fracking fluids are radioactive too, by dissolving out unstable elements from the rocks. Expensive to dump safely.

To be honest, neither side is right. There is ALWAYS going to be pollution, nothing is fucking perfect The technology isn't that bad, its the attitudes the companies have that is shitty. Same with GMO; its fine, but Monsanto is Satan without his morning coffee and who hit his nuts on the toilet seat.

>> No.5841701

>>5841682

My transcription of the argument made against the filmmaker:

"MIT published a report which contradicts flatly the claims that you make in your film in terms of leakage and these stories about water burning, you know, it's really years out of date. You must know that the science has moved on, which is why it's not that the government's been bought, it's that there's much less evidence of an environmental risk than you're claiming." -- Niall Ferguson

Anyone know which MIT study he might be referring to?

>> No.5841712
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5841712

He was asked what his scientific credentials were and he said "I'm an American citizen." Maher's stupid-ass audience broke out into applause. Idiocy ruled the day.

>> No.5841717

>>5841712

why would it have mattered anyways? appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, we should judge the substance of his arguments

>> No.5841724

Don't get mad at television. Be happy that it isn't the real stage that the world is set on, just a caricature of it.

>> No.5841729

>>5841717

Agreed. The rage was not so much from his response as it was from the thunderous applause of the audience, who were cheering on a vacuous statement with no substance at all.

>> No.5841731

>Bill Mahar

He's a celebrity given a pedestal, not a valid source of information. The information he provides enters a biased, uneducated filter just like the rest of the status quo champions on tv.

>> No.5841734

>>5841701

>MIT published a report

who was it funded by? oil and gas companies have a habit of funding reports that make them look good, allegedly the newly elected secretary of the department of energy was involved in such a scandal, in fact he was working at MIT, maybe its the same report

>> No.5841740

>>5841701

here it is

"Much of the criticism of Moniz centers on his extensive ties to industry. He has served on advisory boards for oil giant BP and General Electric and was a trustee of the King Abdullah Petroleum Studies and Research Center, a Saudi Aramco-backed nonprofit organization. In 2011, Moniz was the chief author of an influential study for MIT on the future of natural gas. According to a new report by the Public Accountability Initiative, Moniz failed to disclose that he had taken a lucrative position at a pro-drilling firm called ICF International just days before the study was released."

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/26/energy_nominee_ernest_moniz_criticized_for

>> No.5841742

>>5841729
Mandatory video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECI4QK_mXA

>> No.5841755

>>5841557
Nobody in America likes science. Democrats will like it when it's convenient, same with Republicans. America's politicians don't give a shit about science.

>> No.5841756

>>5841557
>I'm a deluded enlightened partisan who can't think outside of my own context.

You know, that's really great to hear OP. I'm sure there are 50 million people in the world out there just like you, although this sort of board isn't really the type which caters to that type of person. You might be more comfortable on reddit.

>> No.5841765

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/06/15/niall-ferguson-smacks-down-bill-maher-s-claim-fracking-supporters-def

Here's a clip showing part of the exchange.

>> No.5841769

>>5841742

RIP

>> No.5841771
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5841771

>>5841695

Doesn't really matter to be honest. Its not going to stop any time soon.

>> No.5841775

>>5841765

jeez that website gave me cancer

>> No.5841780

>>5841756
Sorry for offending you.

>> No.5841781

The scientific process shares the same foundation of liberalism. American Democrats are not liberals.

>> No.5842220

>>5841557

maher is the only left equivalent of o'reilly, hannity, beck, etc. the ONLY one. the others at least have some fucking rationality behind their thoughts.

it's best to not turn it on or care op

>> No.5842232

>Bill Maher

The guy's a Hannity-tier toolshed.

>> No.5842528

>>5842220

What about Rachel Maddow and Janeane Garofalo?

>> No.5842541

>>5842528

Maddow has a doctorate in something.

Garofalo is a stand up comic.

>> No.5842632

>>5841695
I have family that works in the excavation business for oil and gas. The the thing that turns fracking into a troublesome tool is money. The problems stems from corporations passing over local geologist to avoid sharing a profit.

You have to remember fracking is still basically done on a gamble. You're basically flooding areas to excavate what might be stuck in all the crevices. Oil is extremely difficult to pinpoint, technology helps but can only get us so close.

Local geologists who are familiar with an area can help make the fracking more efficient. And since fracking is basically excavation the geologists are entitled by law to a finders percentage for every well that is established. But companies usually forego that and bring in their own guys. That's where things go from bad to worse. Because they don't have all the historic data about what's underneath the fracking becomes inefficient. And from there it just becomes a game of 'pump and dump' until you find something. Fracking under those circumstance quickly becomes a very dangerous tool that affects the welfare of the indigenous population.

>> No.5842640

>>5841742

Hitchens is a fag

>> No.5842689

>>5842541

>Maddow has a doctorate in something.

That doesn't make her any less of a ranting lunatic.

>> No.5843072

money strong.
ecosystem pussy.
humans boss.

>> No.5843255

>>5841557
ITT people who don't know the difference between news and comedy shows.

>> No.5843260

>>5843255
commentary, I meant. Must of had some sort of Freudian slip.

>> No.5843281

i found a link to the show for anyone who wants it, its one of the half illegitimate sites that asks you to download a plugin every five seconds, but the show is there

>> No.5843282

>>5843281
shit forgot to post link

bestreams net/ibrtamqxhy4d

>> No.5843830

>>5841742
Ha ha, fuckin awesome. I forgot about that clip.

Man... I miss the Hitch ;_;

>> No.5844704

>>5842528

have you watched them? the whole prism thing is a perfect example of the difference between left leaning news vs right. they introduce the issue from a very neutral standpoint rather than forcing their opinion down your throat. when they do have strong opinions, it tends to backed with evidence. the contrast from something like maher/anything on fox is glaring

>> No.5844709

>>5841742
Love him for calling them out on that. Would have loved if he did that on Colbert and Stewart's shows as well.

And I watched that part of the show, OP. Really got mad at the way they were arguing

>> No.5845114

>>5841742
Fucking love that vid.

captcha: among likeCon. To true when it comes to The Mighty Hitch.

>> No.5845121

>>5842689

Of course it doesn't.
It just means she is like O'Reilly, he has an Ivy League graduate degree.

Sean Hannity is a college dropout.
and a dumbass.

>> No.5845123
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5845123

>>5842640
Ad Hominem

>> No.5845132

>>5845121
Having a degree makes you no smarter, it's just a certificate for having studied. That is not to say having one is bad, it's just that it doesn't ensure one who has it is an intellectual person.

>> No.5846445

>>5841731
He even stated himself that he doesn't know much about science.

His public persona is nothing more than cynicism evangelism.

>> No.5846811

>>5842632
This.
Some oil companies started poking around in Southern Illinois a few months back. I was back in the area (near-ish) to where I did my undergrad and grad school, and my paleontology professor (an expert on anything Illinois Basin related) asked me if I wanted to take a semester helping him in drilling some cores.
While we were there, some surveyors came up to us and asked us how/what we were doing. They told us they were going to do some exploratory wells and things and my professor told them that they wouldn't find anything, but he'd had seeps into his cores 20~ miles south. And obviously they were out the next week in our original site. As if we were holding out to build our own oil rig there or something.

>> No.5846829
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5846829

>>5841557
>Democrats are champions of science
Oh Boy

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/the-republican-fluency-with-science/#.UcKs_Vsi9Iy

>> No.5847311

>>5846811
>>5842632
That's unsettling. Terribly so.