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/sci/ - Science & Math


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5799102 No.5799102 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Why does /sci/ hate Computer Science? If you take it at a proper school (e.g. CMU), it's just as math-heavy as plenty of other fields that you guys consider superior.

>> No.5799104

/sci/ doesnt hate the math-heavy computer science at proper schools. /sci/ hates the java/html/javascript/vidyagame shit at pretty much every school

>> No.5799106

>>5799102
>implying /sci/ is monolithic

>> No.5799113

>>5799104
aww poor sci without a job
poor baby

>> No.5799125

>>5799104

how does one differentiate between "vidyagamers" and actual proper cs programs? I sure as hell can't check every school to see their program, they should be put babby tier on their degree so people can tell the difference.

>> No.5799137

>>5799102
>If you take it at a proper school (e.g. CMU), it's just as math-heavy as plenty of other fields that you guys consider superior.

http://www.csd.cs.cmu.edu/education/bscs/currreq_12.html
>> Mathematics/Probability
> 21-120 Differential & Integral Calculus
> 21-122 Integration, Differential Equations, and Approximation
>> one of the following Linear Algebra courses:
> 21-241 Matrices and Linear Transformations
> 21-242 Matrix Theory
> 21-341 Linear Algebra
>> one of the following Probability courses:
> 15-359 Probability and Computing
> 21-325 Probability
> 36-217 Probability Theory and Random Processes
> 36-225 Introduction to Probability and Statistics I


HAHAHAHAHA, no and if you really think that's impressive then kill yourself.

>> No.5799141

>>5799102
>Computer Science; If you take it at a proper school

>implying there ARE any good undergrad math programs

>> No.5799152

>>5799137
>implying many of the courses not listed under "Mathematics/Probability" are not still essentially math courses

>> No.5799165

>>5799137
>http://www.csd.cs.cmu.edu/education/bscs/currreq_12.html

>one Communications course:
What's with the IT bullshit?

>>one Algorithms & Complexity elective:
>15-453 Formal Languages, Automata, and Computability
watered down as shit
>21-301 Combinatorics
>21-484 Graph Theory
easy as shit

>>one Applications elective:
>02-450 Automation of Biological Research
>05-391 Designing Human-Centered Software
>05-431 Software Structures for User Interfaces
>15-313 Foundations of Software Engineering
>others as designated
Oh look GUI coding with UML for monkeys and bestiality porn filming 101. How stimulating

>> one Logics & Languages elective:
>15-312 Foundations of Programming Languages
>15-317 Constructive Logic
>15-414 Bug Catching: Automated Program Verification and Testing
>21-300 Basic Logic
These all look pathetic

>>one Software Systems elective:
>Operating System Design and Implementation
>others as designated
Operating systems isn't required? What kind of shitty program is this?

>>Mathematics/Probability
>21-120 Differential & Integral Calculus
>21-122 Integration, Differential Equations, and Approximation
>one of the following Linear Algebra courses:
>one of the following Probability courses:
Baby's first Calc1&2 + Baby's first matrix algebra + Baby's first probability = No math

>>Engineering and Natural Sciences
>>Four engineering or science courses are required, of which at least one must have a laboratory component
>02-261 Quantitative Cell and Molecular Biology Laboratory
>15-321 Research Methods for Experimental Computer Science
>85-310 Research Methods in Cognitive Psychology
Stupid, also <span class="math">[/spoiler]>Experimental Computer Science<span class="math">[/spoiler], seriously?

>>Humanities and Arts
>All candidates for the bachelor's degree must complete a minimum of 63 units offered by Humanities & Social Sciences and/or Fine Arts.
Mad gay

Overall its a very shitty program that allow students to avoid any difficult classes, just like all CS programs.

>> No.5799168

>>5799104
>/sci/ doesnt hate the math-heavy computer science at proper schools

Because these don't exist. After getting the math background there isn't enough time for these "math-heavy" course. You'ld be lucky to find a program that requires one (watered down) math heavy course.

>> No.5799173

>>5799152
>are not still essentially math courses
fucking around with logical quantifiers and sets doesn't make courses "essentially math courses"

>> No.5799179

>>5799165
Please post some undergraduate courses that you consider to be difficult math classes.

>> No.5799188

>>5799102
Because anything that isn't pure math is too applied for me.

>> No.5799194

>>5799179
Real Analysis (Something at Rudin's level)
Differential Geometry/Topology
Abstract Algebra (That covers at least some Galois theory, Representation theory, and Lie Algebra)
Complex Analysis (not complex variables/calculus)
Theory of PDEs
Fourier/Functional Analysis

>> No.5799202

>>5799179
Go look at the upper level courses of your university

>> No.5799204
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5799204

>> No.5799219
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5799219

>>5799102

>> No.5799223

>>5799194
Gee. A bunch of theoretical bullshit with no actual application in real life. I wonder why cs majors and engineers aren't required to study that.
Also, only Real Analysis will be required in most math courses and you should kill yourself if you think that's a difficult class.

>> No.5799228

>>5799219
(pic unrelated)

>> No.5799237

>>5799194
>>5799194

lookatalltheseproofssouseful.jpg

>> No.5799251

>Also, only Real Analysis will be required in most math courses and you should kill yourself if you think that's a difficult class.

>Not knowing what real analysis actually is
>Not knowing what Rudin is

Kill yourself.

>> No.5799262

>>5799223
>A bunch of theoretical bullshit with no actual application in real life

>Real Analysis
>Differential Geometry
>Abstract Algebra
>Complex Analysis
>PDEs
>Fourier Analysis

>no actual application in real life

Right.... Maybe if coding calender applications for the iphone175 was the peak requirement of math knowledge in real life.

>> No.5799281

>>5799223
>Implying there even exist theoretical bullshit with no actual application in real life in math
>Implying delta epsilon calculus proofs = real analysis

6.5/10

>> No.5799285

Pretty sure there's plenty of Computer Science students / graduates here

>> No.5799288

I'm ABD in pure mathematics and sitting for my fourth actuary exam this fall, yet I don't think CS is gay at all. I get the bio prejudice because they're flash monkies and medical students doubly so, but CS is legit. Fuck these idiots, most are underage b& or even worse, undergrads.

>> No.5799292

>>5799288
>gay means bad
>underage b&
Yup.

>> No.5799469

>math-heavy

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

>> No.5799476

>>5799194

hmm question as an engineer, We would only learn perhaps PDEs and fourier analysis in a non rigorous way, is this acceptable for us because we don't claim to be good at math?

>> No.5799479

>>5799194
>babby math
>difficult
muh sides

These are not "difficult courses", they are among the minimum requirements for a math BSc.

>> No.5799482
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5799482

As an econ master that somehow has ended up in the tech industry (they had jobs lol!), I will be the first to tell you that computer scientists think building a recursive program is "doing math".
Shit is fucking rich. When I told them about my paper (used Bayesian Networks/Ergodic Spaces) they thought I was some sort of genius.

>> No.5799494

>>5799482
As further evidence.
I've made statistical programming/computing threads in both /g/ and /sci/.
Basically got zero replies from /g/.
/sci/ was 60 reply thread.
Computer Scientists can be talented and intelligent, but more than likely they just want to make "vidyagaymes!"

>> No.5799505

>>5799482

I want to think econ has math in it, but I can't seem to find any actual topics that in it that are math heavy.

What are some topics in econ that require a rigorous mathematical background, I knew they exist.

>> No.5799508

>>5799505

The only thing I can seem to find is Econometrics, sadly my school makes it optional, so everyone can avoid this class.

Fuck those majors/schools that don't make essential classes requirements, it really cheapens the degree.

>> No.5799530

>>5799505
I wrote a paper as an undergrad. My actual program was a piece of cake compared to that 50 page behemoth of proofs.
If you like stats, Econometrics has basically be the sole driving force advancing the field of time series analysis for the last ten years.
If you like pure math, Game Theory and Mechanism Design (my paper had elements of the latter).
Even business schools have some difficult math involved:
My favorite paper of all time is written by a b-school professor
http://www.uvm.edu/~pdodds/files/papers/others/2000/garicano2000a.pdf

>> No.5799562
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5799562

>study CS
>dont understand shit in math lectures
>have a hard time understanding it even after reading about it on the net
>people say that linear algebra 1 and analysis 1 is easy stuff

goddamn. I dont want to know what real math is then. How can you guys find math fun? I just can't stay awake during a math lecture. My brain just shuts off once big ass formulas are introduced.

>> No.5799569

>>5799494

/g/ is not compsci, it is tech consumer general. there is one daily programming thread a day, and 8/10 of the people in there are terribly self taught or brand new. the fact that you extrapolate that conclusion from your so called evidence speaks a lot for your intelligence

>>5799482
why exactly are you struggling with employment? it's always interesting how people like you strut around here when you can't even leave school as an immediate asset to companies

>> No.5799574

>>5799569
>/g/ is not compsci,
/g/ has turned into a bitcoin mining board

>> No.5799575

>>5799569
This. /g/ is fucking awful. The front page is always full with: is my pc build good?, post your battlestations, post your desktop, post the innards of your pc

>> No.5799581

>>5799569
>8/10 of the people in there are terribly self taught or brand new

often i see CS or IT related talk there..

>> No.5799584

>>5799102
Computer science that is taught at a UK/Euro (in most of europe you take a 3 year bachelor but only study for your major) is really cool and mad respect to people who take it. Oxford's Computer Science and Mathematics course is really really really intense.

Liberal arts universities' computer science majors are less complex than an AP Calculus class.

Personally, the only thing lower on my scale is Biolog and Art as majors.

>> No.5799585

Because they can bash people and act like huge douche bags and assholes anonymously on the internet instead of to their faces in real life.

>> No.5799586

>>5799204
No that's biology.

>> No.5799587

CS student here. You are right /sci/, there is no difficult math it it. I like math but I have been crippled by my high school teacher and so I completely lacked high school math coming to uni and I barely made it past first two semesters because of it. However, even if I was much better in math I would still study CS because it's something I like, not because of money or making games. So take it as it is or go fuck yourselves.

And yeah, /g/ is shit.

>> No.5799591

>>5799505
options theory is a bit of a bitch if you're a dunce like me, I guess that comes under econometrics

>> No.5799594

Computer engineering major here. I guess I'm stupid and gay.

>> No.5799597
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5799597

>>5799102
>it's just as math-heavy as plenty of other fields that you guys consider superior.

>> No.5799602

>>5799594
>I guess I'm stupid and gay.
yes you are for majoring in that

>> No.5799604

>>5799587
>there is no difficult math it it

We currently do sequence limits and I find it hard :(

>> No.5799609

I dunno, to me, CS just seems like a somewhat more fun, easier, and more profitable Math degree. Plus, one can have a successful Computer Science career without necessarily contributing anything to the field at large, which is hard in all fields. Mathematicians, on the other hand, have to either teach, or come up with something that nobody in the history of academia has thought of up to that point, which I doubt any of us are capable of doing in any meaningful sense.

>> No.5799611

>>5799609
>Mathematicians, on the other hand, have to either teach, or come up with something that nobody in the history of academia has thought of up to that point, which I doubt any of us are capable of doing in any meaningful sense.

you must be retarded if you think mathematicians don't have any other career paths apart from professorship

>> No.5799619

babby mode CS - programming every class
hard mode CS - pure math every class

they really need this distinction on their degree or hell just call the watered down cs "programming"

>> No.5799624

>>5799609
>CS just seems like a somewhat more fun, easier, and more profitable Math degree.

i lol'd

>> No.5799625

>>5799619
>mfw when I find programming more difficult than ath

>> No.5800126

I was considering CS but now I'm learning more towards CE (or possibly EE)
I don't really care about /sci/'s opinion b-but am I doing it right?

>> No.5800129

/sci/ hates everything because they are bunch of highschoolers insecure about their own capablities

>> No.5800135

>>5800126

Go EE. You will never regret it.

>> No.5800302

>>5799479
see >>5799179 <span class="math">[/spoiler]>Please post some undergraduate courses that you consider to be difficult math classes.

I couldn't list funner graduate courses so what do you expect?

>> No.5800304

>>5800302
WTF are you talking about?

>> No.5800320

>>5800304
He was mocking me for posting baby Rudin and other undergrad math topics for being far easier than graduate math courses. He's right but I was answering the question what undergrad courses are somewhat difficult.

>> No.5800321
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5800321

>>5799586

>> No.5800322

...because the world is full of people who think they are better than everyone else. The internet doubly so.

>> No.5800323

>>5799604
HAHAHAHA

>>5799619
>Undergrad mode CS - programming every class or hand waving being called math
>Graduate mode CS - math in every class

lmftfy

>> No.5800330

>community college kids doing undergrad physics
>hurt your subject has less maths so it's easy
98% of /sci/

>> No.5800336

>>5799102
Math major here. I had to take a basic CS course as part of my degree requirements for some reason.

Shit was laughably easy. Kids at my table were struggling to come up with simple formulas to put in their code. The professor treated me like a genius because I had a firm grasp of high school algebra.

Then I took linear algebra which was mostly full of CS majors. Most of them didn't mind matrices as long as they could use a calculator. But once we hit vector spaces, they FREAKED the fuck out.

Basically, CS is for people who think math is constructing algorithms and crunching numbers.

>> No.5800357

>>5800336
It's true that a lot of CS programs aren't very good but its silly when math and engineering majors take introductory programming and think its a good representation of the field. If I only took calc 1 I would think math is laughable too. Another part of this is that intro classes havent filtered out the idiot "I hate math and I just want to make video games" fedora wearers that CS seems to draw.

>> No.5800358

>>5799168
That surely doesn't discredit the field though. Just because colleges have shitty undergraduate programs, doesn't mean that there's no heavy mathematical proofs and investigation in CS. It's just that only graduate students ever do the real theoretical stuff that makes it a math.

>> No.5800407

>>5800358
>That surely doesn't discredit the field though. Just because [all] colleges have shitty undergraduate programs, doesn't mean that there's no heavy mathematical proofs and investigation in CS. It's just that only graduate students ever do the real theoretical stuff that makes it a math.

I agree but there's a never ending hoard of retarded manchildren with CS bachelors claiming that they practically have math degrees, undergrad CS is rigorous, undergrad CS is basically math, they do more math than physics/engineering majors, their discrete math is graduate/theoretical level math, etc etc...

>> No.5800445

>>5800302
Good. I think we reached the conclusion that all math programs are just as shitty as CS programs for allowing math majors to avoid any difficult classes.

>> No.5800523

>>5800445
That is a problem with undergrad math programs but it's nowhere as bad as CS.

>> No.5800531

Which of these CS programs would you consider "proper"? (they're the schools I applied to, didn't even get in all of them just curious)
MIT
CMU
Cornell
RPI
Lehigh
Stevens institute of technology
Princeton
Johns Hopkins

No need to provide me with the gloriously supreme input that all CS is stupid. I ended up going to one of these schools and want to know how I did.

>> No.5800534

>>5800531
Or rather, how /sci/ thinks I did.

>> No.5800535

>>5800531
Cambridge, Oxford, MIT

>> No.5800545

>>5800523

Ignore them.

Everyone on /sci/ seems to think they are God's gift to humanity. That they are all geniuses shackled by incompetent teachers, unfortunate circumstance or just themselves being lazy.

Protip, you aren't. You are just as mediocre as everyone else. You hate humanities students but someone doing Art History at a top university will get a better job than almost all of you.

Get off your high horse and fuck off back to community college.

>> No.5800546

>>5800531
>MIT
Because their program is EECS which is basically just CompE/ECE.

>> No.5800553

>>5800546
>>5800535
Ok. It's a shame I didn't get into MIT and Oxford and Cambridge are in fucking Britain.

>> No.5800560

>>5800553
We accept international students

>> No.5800585
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5800585

>>5800560
He's probably too fat to fit on an airplane in the first place.

>> No.5800642

>>5800585
My parents refuse to pay my tuition if I go too far away to drive. Couldn't even apply to Berkeley or Stanford. Maybe for grad school I'll end up there.

>> No.5800648
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5800648

>>5800585
>he

>> No.5800650

>>5799204
>>5800321
Images like these are heresy and should be burned.

>> No.5800654

>>5800545
Protip: no one is God's gift unless they try to be.

>> No.5800662

>>5800642
>America
I pay £3500 a year in tuition and get a superior education. Mad?

>> No.5800677

>>5800662
No, but a bit jealous. My education is good, but costs my parents 60k a year.

>> No.5800701

>>5800677
>what are student loans
Most people don't get their parents pay. Mine don't pay my fees, though they pay for my rent/food etc (only about 4.5k a year). Private universities are odd, there is only 1 here (and it's shit)

>> No.5800743

>>5800701
Well my parents are well off and offer to pay my tuition, not gonna say no.

Public universities are shit in US.

>> No.5800763

>>5800662
In my experience, CS in the UK doesn't come close to CS at top US schools.
The math done in CS classes is usually quite trivial for anyone who has done advanced math (e.g. functional analysis, abstract algebra), but that's not where the difficulty of CS classes lies.

In grad school you get to study very math-heavy CS, involving stuff like stochastic processes, martingales, etc

>> No.5800795

I pay 700€ a year and this already includes a train ticket for the whole year that I can use in the whole federal state.

When I look at online courses, my education isnt worse, than top US unis. Of course you guys have the advantage, that your uni has a superior name.

>> No.5800811

>>5800336
CS attracts a air portion of lazy people who just wanted to "program games"

Doesnt mean that everyone in CS is like that, or that every course is easy. You will be able to pass with mediocre math skills, but if you want, you will have the opportunity to use abstract math. My university is always researching new encription methods for instance, the math you use there can be as complex as you want and there are CS students who invent stuff, that most mathematicians couldnt come up with.

>> No.5800812

>>5800763
>In my experience, CS in the UK doesn't come close to CS at top US schools.

What makes you say that? If you compare a top UK university like Cambridge to a top US "school" like Harvard or MIT, what would make you say that the education offered in the UK university doesn't come close to that of the US "school"?

>> No.5800827

>>5800811
>or that every course is easy
yes it does
>but if you want, you will have the opportunity to use abstract math
no you won't

>> No.5800834

>>5800812
I'd say they're about equal (MIT might be a bit better), but the US just has so many more good schools than Britain. Then again, it' also much larger.
>>5800811
This.

>> No.5800842

>>5800827
Why do I always feel that people like this are the miserable physics/engineering majors at community college, who console themselves by thinking "at least I'm not a CS major".

I'd bet you would not come close to passing an advanced AI or cryptography course at MIT or CMU.

>> No.5800845

>>5800535
MIT went to Python for their intros, that's dumbing shit down.

>> No.5800846

>>5800842
>Why do I always feel

Because you're projecting your own insecurities.

>> No.5800858

>>5800812

just wanna point out that Cambridge computer science exams require the writing of code by hand. on paper. with a pen or pencil.

it's like living in the 1800s over here

>> No.5800860

>>5800846
Perhaps. And you're not?

As someone else said, there are many CS majors that just do it to play Counterstrike and WoW, but to say CS as a whole is a useless field is idiotic.

>> No.5800869

>>5800860
>but to say CS as a whole is a useless field

Who said this? We're just making fun of CS majors. Of course CS is an interesting field -- for mathematicians, physicists, engineers etc. A CS major however will not be prepared to contribute to his own fields.

>> No.5800874

>>5800858
That's normal in CompE.

I had to make a 32bit Booth encoded wallace tree multiplier in Verilog on paper on a exam that only gave 10 minutes per question.

>> No.5800878

>>5800869
(Guaranteed replies)

>> No.5800896

>>5800858
college m80?

Your faculty is opposite mine
>vetmed master race

>> No.5800914

>>5800662
Interesting.
I get paid £3000/yr to get a superior education. Mad?

>> No.5800915

>>5800914
>superior
>paid
>implying

>> No.5800920

>>5800763
>CS in the UK doesn't come close to CS at top US schools.

maybe you go to University of Liverpool or some horrible university. Try Computer Science at Imperial/UCL/Leeds/Oxford/Camebridge?Warwick/LSE.

Then you can start talking.

Undergrad CS in the US is about as rigorous as Women's Studies.

>> No.5800923

>>5800920
>Camebridge
>amebrid
>amebr
>meb
>e

also
>Leeds
>Ucl

Sheffield Hallam detected

>> No.5800935

>>5800923
not even from the West

>> No.5800940

>>5800915
Well you're entitled to believe whatever you want but I do not have reason to lie about this on an anonymous imageboard.
Not everyone lives in murrika where people benefit from the ignorance of others.

>> No.5800998

>>5800869
I don't really believe this. You guys always say, oh, if you want to be a computer scientist major in math and then get your PhD in a CS field. Seems unnecessary to me.

>> No.5801006

>>5800940
>implying I'm not from GOATBrittania
also
>superior
>paid
>implying

>> No.5801008

>>5800998
No we say:

>If you want to be a Physicist, major in math (and possibly get a masters) and then get a PhD in Physics
>If you want to be a CS major, then learn it by yourself and major in anything else like Math/EE/CompE/Physics...

>> No.5801013

>>5801008
>we

>> No.5801014

>>5801008
/sci/ logic

>I want to do <non maths field>
><non maths field> is easy and for retards. Are you stupid?
>N-n-o it's actually q-q-uite hard and I enjoy it
>Well you are an idiot. You should major in Maths and then just do <non maths field> as PhD
>B-but <non maths field> is actually quite complex and requires undergraduate study to understand
>No it doesn't you sperg, it's easy as piss. Just do Maths and teach yourself <non maths field> in your spare time

>> No.5801018

>>5801014
depends on what you consider Maths field.

But yeah you are on the right track.

>> No.5801019

>>5801018
As far as /sci/ is concerned, anything other than Pure Maths. Though they like to whine about "babby-tier" and "real" maths like those aren't trivial subjective labels that pretty much mean "what I already learnt" and "what I am learning right now" to every community college fuckwit on here

>> No.5801020

>>5801014
I don't see anything wrong with that reasoning.

>> No.5801024

>>5801014
>/sci/ logic
Izts just an angry and vocal minority

>> No.5801028

>>5801019
no not true per say. You don't see too many people bashing Chemistry on here. Or even Biology.

>> No.5801036

>>5801028
>Or even Biology.

Newfriend detected. You should have seen /sci/ in 2011.

>> No.5801046

>>5801036
> You don't see too many people bashing Chemistry on here. Or even Biology.
>You don't see too many people
>too many

I'm sorry do you come from a third world country?

>> No.5801051

>>5801046
I do come from a third world country and you still need to lurk more.

>> No.5801182

>>5801028

No, only the insecure atheist started bashing chemistry after the new pope was elected. The rest of us are indifferent to chemistry.

>> No.5801187

>>5801182
Except for organic chem which isn't science

>> No.5801189

>>5801187
AP Chemistry Organic Chapter does not count. Graduate level organic chemistry is really intense

>> No.5801193

>>5800834
So really, you don't have experience of the graduates or the teaching faculty of either school, you're just talking based on league tables.

Good. Just checking.

>> No.5801197

Computer Science != "Computer Science" Programming Degree

>> No.5801204

>>5799625
Programming is really the pinnacle of human intellectual achievements. Ther
programming.

>> No.5801212

Went for Artificial intelligence (stand alone major in Netherlands). Chose the 'hard/strong AI' instead of soft AI (psychology/neurology/smart web/etc).. what do I get?

Bayesian, stochastic processes, localization (SLAM etc), filters, computer vision, every machine learning algorithm out there, etc etc.

Id say its pretty math heavy when I gotta read and understand 'math-only' publications. Every pure mathematician knows what I mean by that.

>> No.5802155

>>5801212
Interesting. What's your university?

>> No.5802196
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5802196

>mfw CS people dont give a shit about what beta mathfags think

>> No.5802198

>>5800545

A hundred times this.

I guess < 1% are actually smart people going to good universities. I always see shit like

>My high school teacher ruined math for me
>I'm intellectual but I am just lazy
>If I wanted to I would be a genius
>The professor made the test impossible and everyone failed (when in reality most people didn't study enough and some people did and got good grades)

I have more respect for a social science student that really loves his field and understands wtf is going on in contrast to you failures taking physics at cc to be able to boast about it at an anonymous message board online

>> No.5802200
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5802200

>>5802196
beta mathfags get beta reduced

>> No.5802201

Universities should agree to what is and what isn't computer science.

>> No.5802211

>>5802198
Exactly. My uni is half sci/half humanities and I respect all the humanities students there more than /sci/ autists

>> No.5802244

> (in most of europe you take a 3 year bachelor but only study for your major)

Is it different in the us?
2nd year cs bachelor here (Germany). We have so much things to learn that 3 years for my major (+ 30CP minor in philosophy) is not even nearly enough to get the basics done.

>> No.5802867

>>5799219
Exactly, which is why he's calling himself a SCIENTIST, not a MATHEMATICIAN.

>> No.5802880

how do i into comp sci?
>inb4 sicp, knuth

>> No.5802881

>>5799569
>it's always interesting how people like you strut around here when you can't even leave school as an immediate asset to companies

I got my masters in 09'. Nothing was an asset that year.
So yea, suck my dick, I have a great job.

>> No.5802886

>>5799569
>the fact that you extrapolate that conclusion from your so called evidence speaks a lot for your intelligence
Also: you sound like a fag who is try to sound intelligent because I bruised your butt about compsci

>> No.5802891
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5802891

JUST IN: Students of a field that only utilizes a quarter of the mathematics that math majors learn DO NOT HAVE TO LEARN AS MUCH MATHEMATICS

Gee, maybe they are learning... computer science?

>> No.5802908

The truth is, if you're not doing pure mathematics, it's because you can't. The only reason why somebody wouldn't is because they're not good enough so they take some feelgood field such as computer science or physics so they can boast about how much of a genius they are. People who take maths earn over 43% more than other degrees and are generally more intelligent, more successful and better looking.

>> No.5802910

Guise

Why do theoretical CS people suck at programming?

>> No.5802916

>>5802910
examples of "programming"

>> No.5802919

>>5802916

they are too verbose but not that efficient. they use map and reduce too much when you could very much get the same result with a fucking loop. they obfuscate code too much

>> No.5802920

>>5802919
using map/reduce isn't obfuscating code. you're just stupid.
and most of the time it's a proof of concept to illustrate the idea, not an actual implementation that needs to be efficient.

>> No.5802927

>>5802910

they're so up high in their ivory towers, that's why.

>> No.5802930

>>5802908
>citation needed

>> No.5802935

>>5802201

What should be included in an ideal CS curriculum?

Which research areas should be given exposure?

>> No.5803022

>>5802919
> Map reduce = Obfuscating code

What the hell are you talking about? Have you ever hear of parallel programming/distributed systems?

Map-reduce is the swiss knife of parallel computing. Easy to use and very efficient.

>> No.5803032

>>5802908
Truth right there.

>> No.5803033

OP, it depends on how corrupted is your college and/or industry.

>> No.5803038

>>5802908
God, please don't fuck up mathematics, math has been peaceful for useless and uninteresting, i like that.

>> No.5803051

I think people like actual computer science and not what is said to be CS.
The best programme is CompSci+EE anyway.

>> No.5803064

>>5803051
That's pretty much applied skills to make you feel superior. Real CS should have a lot more to do with philosophy, more on paper works and less computer.

>> No.5803461

>>5802908
yes

>> No.5805511

>>5800531
Not a comp sci major, but Stevens has the kind of CS that /sci/ hates. That is programming... and programming. With a foundation in math that anyone is capable of.

>> No.5805531

>>5799102
It lacks mystic esotericism due to it being easily accessible to plebs. Basically an ego and pride issue. Non-CS majors are envious of CS majors being able immediately to apply their knowledge and skills upon learning them. Non-CS majors, on the other hand, are stuck with mostly theories until they get to work in actual projects related to their fields, which only a small percentage of graduates have the privilege of doing.

>> No.5805638

>>5805511
Okay. It's kind of sad that it's very difficult to get any other type of CS education unless you can get into some top-tier school. I think it's definitely time that schools split CS up into 2 majors, maybe one that stays CS and one that becomes Software Engineering, just to distinguish between students who want to learn the more mathematically rigorous concepts and theory and those who just want to learn to program in order to get a job.

>> No.5805648

>>5800531

I like how rarely NC State University makes these lists. If you look into it, they lump their CS undergrad program in with the Engineering college, so for CS undergrad, you are required to take all the same math courses as you would in order to earn any other engineering degree at the college.

>> No.5805650

>>5805648
This is not a list of the schools I felt were the best schools, it was a list of [most of] the schools I applied to.

And lumping CS with engineering is more common than you think.

>> No.5805739

>>5799575

/g/ needs the /v/ treatment, make a containment board to get rid of the ricing faggots and their desktop bullshit

>> No.5805741

>>5805650
Ah, I understand.
It is somewhat common to lump them together. Most of the universities that lump it in with engineering don't actually require that the students matriculate into the college of engineering or take many of the engineering math courses in order to take the higher level CS courses, though. At NCSU, I was required to take the engineering college's version of Molecular Physics I & II, as well as the engineering college's version of Calculus I-III and Differential Equations. I enjoyed it though, and as a result of the program I am much better at programming algorithms than most of my coworkers.

>> No.5805754

>>5805741

I won't pretend to know anything about NCSU, but the school I ended up going to is kind of similar. I have to take the engineering versions of calc I-III and linear algebra (not sure about differential equations), or use AP credit to get out of it, but no Molecular Physics. I've actually liked the math courses I've taken so so far a lot, so I'm probably going to add on a minor in math just so I can try to take some more in-depth classes.

>> No.5805766

>>5805739
/g/ right now is an extension of /v/ and /prog/ an extension of /jp/.

>> No.5805771

>>5805766

imagine how glorious it would be if the desktop ricers and weebs were purged from /g/

Then I'd actually go there

>> No.5805780

>>5802867
science without mathematic rigor is as scientific as social science.

>> No.5805790

>>5799104
my school is like this, I'm tempted to switch over to math and just take the math heavy CS courses as the required electives for the CS minor.

They even made the compiler class a graduate level only class that undergrads can't take.

They also made a vidya version of the CS degree where they made a few of the harder required courses electives and the two game development electives requirements.

I can't transfer because of money...

>> No.5805795

>>5802910
Because they're doing real programming, they don't really learn how to manipulate monolithic enterprise libraries and java.

>> No.5805805

>>5805638
My school does this, they have Computer Science and Applied Computer Science. Regular Computer Science is still lacking.

>> No.5805826

>>5805805
What do you mean by "lacking"? It's too easy? I think doing this would cut down on the people that signed up for CS just to learn web design and because it would be cool to design video games. They'd have to make it painfully clear that anybody who wants that must sign up for the applied CS major.

Then the regular CS major could cover more of the topics usually saved for graduate school.

>> No.5805828

>>5805531
It bloody well should have mystical esotericism. It's the scientific frontier and it's students are schooled as code monkeys. The computer seen as to the car, computer scientists set out to be not engineers but mere factory line workers.

Does this seem perfectly fine to you?

>> No.5805840

>>5805826
Well it's lacking compared to other schools I've looked at, most of the harder stuff is still just electives. The main difference is that it requires a few physics courses and 2 years of real calculus, compared to applied CS which just require applied calculus.

It still does a pretty good job of separating the two groups though. And you actually have to request to be in Computer Science, otherwise when you enroll they assume you want to be in applied.

>> No.5805846

>>5805805
What about marking the difference with SE and what is and what is not science? Or hell, just make web design a practical career, includes server-side scripting and java, perfect for your 'professional' code monkey.

>> No.5805851

Does graduate level computer science actually pick up and not feel like I'm being trained to be a code monkey?

>> No.5805855

>>5805840
Yeah, that's nice. I'm fine with the harder stuff being electives, as long as they don't bog you down with a bunch of useless required courses and actually let you explore those electives. Making it required would be a plus, though.

And they still only make you take two years of calculus? Wow, I kind of see what you mean now. I came into college with two years worth of calculus AP credit already.

A good CS major program (not the applied kind, mind you) should, in my opinion, should at least require one course in operating systems, compilers, AI, and cryptography, in addition to the standard data structures/algorithms courses. Then you should be able to pick one or two of these areas and specialize in it further. At least, that's what I'm trying to do with my degree.

>> No.5805863

>>5805846
I'm not sure.

I actually did take the web design course here because for whatever reason it's not an elective but an actual requirement for the major.

The professor who teaches it was actually into theoretical computer science and never really did actual web related stuff since the early 90s and most of the people taking the class were actually people getting IT degrees, and he actually made fun of them for it and talked down to them.

One thing I've noticed about the CS department here is that it seems like they want to improve the department but they have to do it in a way that the university likes which is to make the undergrad program mainly appeal to employers or else they threaten to cut funding.

>> No.5805870

>>5805855
Well they have a third year but it's literally optional between another calc class, linear algebra, graph theory. Most of the people going for the not applied computer science degree usually either go for a math or physics minor or double major as well so they end up with higher math requirements anyway.

>> No.5805878

>>5805870
Also they do have operating systems as a requirement, compiler is one of the electives and AI is an elective. I've been focusing on taking what I can take to appeal to graduate schools. I'd really like to focus on AI, if only they had more here.

Cryptography is a math course here actually.

>> No.5806009

>>5802201
undergrad isn't CS and graduate is.

>>5802935
To even start on teaching in an actual CS program you need to learn 3 years of unrelated background while doing nothing on the CS side. There's simply too much to learn and in sequence to be done in the 4th year [hence why even in the top ten schools, CS is either CompE masquerading as EECS/CSE/CS/etc or consist of 80% enterprise java code-monkeying filler courses]. The ideal curriculum is the standard masters curriculum; the undergrad degree program just needs to die. People who want to go into IT/web development/enterprise coding should go to trade schools with plumbers and electricians. People interested in theory should major in Engineering/Physics/Math and take a few graduate courses to decide if they want a masters in CS or not.

>> No.5806021

>>5805790
>graduate level only class that undergrads can't take
What the fuck are you talking about? Every school allows good students to take graduate level class as undergrads, you just have to ask.

>> No.5806052

>>5805878
Yeah I've been trying to take as many of the more in-depth classes as I can. Each semester I end up taking 1 math course and 1 rather irritating liberal arts requirement, but I get 3 courses per semester I can take in a CS area. Next semester I'll hopefully get advanced AI, Quantum Information Processing (I'm really really looking forward to this one), and I haven't picked a third one yet. Maybe I'll take some kind of physics or electrical engineering course instead. AP credit was beautiful in getting pretty much all the required bullshit done by the end of my sophomore year.

I just wish CS degrees would focus more on these types of classes and less on the web design/code monkey software development stuff. I think /sci/ is of the opinion that all CS majors just want to take these stupidly easy programming courses and don't even get to data structures until junior year, because that's the minimum required by most CS programs, but that's just wrong. I think a CS major is a really great option if it lets you get the basics done quickly and then proceed to explore some more advanced topics in the field, while still taking math and engineering courses on the side. This is what I've been trying to do, and so far it's been working great and I'm loving it. (It's also not as easy as everyone on /sci/ seems to think it is if you approach it this way).

I'll be a junior next year by the way. So I get two years to take pretty much whatever the fuck I want as long as I take one liberal arts course per semester.

>> No.5806095

>>5805855
>A good CS major program should, in my opinion, should at least require one course in
>cryptography

What kind of cryptography course do you have in mind? My school has at least 5 in the Math/CS/EE departments alone. A good conceptual (though these are sadly rare) that covers security definitions and proofs rather than babies first number theory, how to exploit buffers overflows, intro to SSL types of courses would be far more beneficial to anyone taking it. The others don't teach you anything close to enough to be able to use it for anything (and worst, the retards might think they know enough to code craptastic crypto software).

>> No.5806128

>>5806095
I dunno, the purpose of requiring these intro courses was more to allow you to get a feel for what each area of CS is like, so you could then decide which you might want to pursue. I have yet to take a cryptography class, so it was mostly just speculation. The description of "Introduction to Cryptography" at my school is:

"Introductory course in cryptography. Topics include one-way functions, encryption, digital signatures, pseudo-random number generation, zero-knowledge and basic protocols. Emphasizes fundamental notions and constructions with proofs or security based on precise definitions and assumptions. "

Not sure which category that would fall into.

>> No.5806165
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5806165

>complexity, semantics, satisfiability, decision theory, statistics, machine learning, computer vision, game theory
>"CS not a science"

Stay mad.

That there are tons of SoftEng fags running around doesn't take anything away from CS. Computer Scientist != Code Monkey. Pic related.

>> No.5806167

>>5806165
none of those topics are taught in CS

>> No.5806174

>>5799102
1.5 and a half to finish UNI, sent CV to 3 jobs - got accepted in all of them.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAH C++

>> No.5806177

>>5806165
Do you really think shallow introductions to these topics on high school level count as education? Without knowledge of higher math you will never go deeper into any of them.

>> No.5806180

>>5806167
Yes they are.

http://www.informatik.tuwien.ac.at/studium/angebot/studienplaene/informatik-archiv/informatik-uebergang-2012/066931-UB-2012-Mas_Computational_Intelligence.pdf

>> No.5806187

>>5806177
>shallow

0/10

>> No.5806193

>>5806187
It's true though. A CS student will never get more than a superficial introduction to theoretical topics because he doesn't have the math background.

>> No.5806195

OP, /sci/ isn't for scientists.

It's for hipster pseudo-intellectuals that think being autistics and remembering numbers means anything.

The truth is, no one here at /sci/ will ever be able to actually contribute themselves to any field, all they can do is parrot others' theories and so they jerk off to that.

>> No.5806213
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5806213

>>5806193
What relevant math background does a good CS education lack? Differential geometry maybe?

I'll give you 1/10 for the effort.

>> No.5806221

>>5806213
You're lacking all math education. Serioulsy, a little bit of number crunching on high school level is not real math.

>> No.5806231

>>5806221
You need to to lurk more man, maybe you'll learn to troll one day.

>> No.5806235

>>5806231
I am neither a "man" nor a "troll". I'm serious and I pity your ignorance.

>> No.5806240

>>5806235
A robot?
>bc females don't exist on the Internet

>> No.5806242

>>5806240
>muh virginity

Go back to >>>/r9k/

>> No.5806248

>>5806240
For your information, everyone on /sci/ is a girl.

>> No.5806253

How's UCSD for computer science?

>> No.5806254

>>5806253

Also, cal poly pomona and csu long beach.

>> No.5806269

What if I'm a computer scientist with a minor in Maths?

>> No.5806306

>>5806269
That's what I'm doing. As long as you minimize the easy-as-fuck Java code-monkey courses and take more advanced CS/math/EE courses instead, it's a ton of fun and you learn a lot (It's not easy, though).

>> No.5806339

>>5806306
I ended up taking some java code monkey courses because they were labelled as something they weren't.

>> No.5806353

>>5806339
We knew that.
And we were judging you for it.

>> No.5806359

>>5799223
as an EE student i can tell you that at least some of them are applicable to engineering, especially fourier analysis.
0/10

>> No.5806372

>>5806339
Like what? Most courses have descriptions, I've generally been able to avoid that type by just reading the descriptions and doing a bit of research.

>> No.5806385

>>5799223
Electrical Engineers at the graduate level should know about Functional Analysis and Complex Analysis.

>> No.5806533

That feel when being a Computer Scientist with a specialization with biometrics intrigues me.

>> No.5806552

>>5806128
Sound like a conceptual course

>> No.5806562

>>5806009
>>5806193
Completely agree.

Undergrad cs is nothing more than a scam.

>> No.5806605

>>5800842
Lol, I though /sci though MIT was a joke
>>5806558

>> No.5806712

>>5806605
probably because they are all jealous that they are not intelligent enough to make any significant contribution to science and a good portion of the people at MIT are. Therefore, they make themselves feel better by pretending that MIT students are a joke.

>> No.5806738

>>5806712
Pretty accurate.

>> No.5806830

I'm actually a CS major going into my fourth year.

I really want to change majors but it's probably too late now. If I could change I'd either go for Electrical Engineering, chemE, or physics.

>> No.5806837

>>5806195
why would you prepare an anonymous statement for the sheer purpose of being edgy?

>> No.5806838

>>5806830
Do it and stay an extra year.

No one is going to give you financial aid or scholarships once you already have a degree.

>> No.5806859

>>5806838
I'd have to transfer as well, those departments at my current school are either not very good or non-existent. I was actually going to transfer a year ago and switch to EE but of all the things the school I was wanting to transfer to denied me because I didn't have some of the general ed classes they required transfer students to have. I've just heard it's really hard to get schools to accept you as transfers at this stage.

>> No.5806870
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5806870

>>5806167

>> No.5806874

>>5806870
He meant undergrad CS at most universities.

>> No.5806876

>>5806838
Just like the state funds undergrads, usually other countries give you aid for graduate studies there.

>> No.5806902

Learned the functional programming paradigm.

>Haskell, OCaml

Both aren't used beyond academics and economics, apparently.

Now I am 4 months in at my job dictating good coding policies for employees who have been programming as long as I have been alive.

>Feelsgood

>> No.5806905

Med student here.

I'm laughing at your pathetic asses right now.

Medicine is THE profession.

>> No.5806923


▲▲

>> No.5806924

>>5806905
Computer Science has application in the field of medicine though.

>> No.5806928

>>5806905

Engineer here. Have fun being reduced to waving herbs and chewing tree barks without our help. "The" profession for crippling people with ridiculous debt, perhaps.

>> No.5806931

>>5806928

>waving herbs and chewing tree bark
>implying that what they are doing right now is any better

>> No.5806932

>>5806924
>>5806928
If it wasn't for Medicine, you faggots wouldn't be even posting here.

>> No.5806936

>>5806931

Well played.

>> No.5806982
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5806982

>>5806905

>> No.5807000

>>5806932
Bullshit - superior genetics master race here, I'd be posting here without your medical science, but you wouldn't be posting here without muh physics and muh engineering, faggot.

>> No.5807037

>>5802886

it's unlikely you've ever bruised any butts friend

>> No.5807056

>>5806932
Why are you including me, I was just pointing out that computer science is used in medicine, especially drug discovery and personalized medicine.

>> No.5807103

i have found the act of programming to be pretty similar to trying to prove stuff

>> No.5807109

Mathemeticians are just shitty computers.

>> No.5807110

Software Engineers and Network Engineers are the most important professions. I can run Linux on my raspberry pi.

>> No.5807111
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5807111

>>5807109

>> No.5807114

>>5806874

pretty sure the entire uc system has these courses available

>> No.5807116

does the average mathematician output economically what they take over their life span? Are they a net gain to society?

>> No.5807117

>>5807116

They do math them.

>> No.5807137

This thread is idiots for caring about classes, which school, students, curricula, etc.

All curricula are shit. Learn CS on your own. All the resources are out there on the internet.

>> No.5807141

>>5799104
My uni starts with haskell <3

>> No.5807148

>>5807137

is there a subject you can't learn on your own?

>> No.5807153

>>5807148
No.

BUT MUH THEORETICAL PHYSICS WITH NO REAL POTENTIAL JOB MARKET IS BEST SCIENCE

>> No.5807197
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5807197

>>5807148
The point is that CS is incredibly easy to learn on your own even if you're not particularly gifted. Furthermore, you will not miss any insights from professors (because they don't exist at this level) and attain a deeper understand than all the mass produced idiots with CS degrees while achieving it in a fraction of the time and at no cost.

CS is truly just overprice daycare for overgrown manchildern.

>> No.5807201

>>5800662
not really. mine is about the same price after converting...

>> No.5807226

>>5806254
>>5806253

UCSD is great for CS, then pomona then cal stat long beach.

I almost went to UCSD but decided on Michigan instead (studying computer sci). Get ready for the asian invasion

>> No.5807268

>>5807148
Yeah its called how to suck a dick. We need to learn it from the master.

you.

>> No.5808372

>>5807197

is there something that you've experienced in school that you've NEEDED school to get through and learn?

>> No.5809304

>>5806558
lsakmflads

>> No.5809314

>>5808372
Doing research with professors, discussions on the professor's research, and lots of lab work.

>> No.5809315

>>5809304
>shitbumping

>> No.5809502

>>5807197
As someone who naively went to a school with a bullshit CS program (one of those "vidjagames" programs), do you think you could give me some pointers? (shitty pun intended)
Here's a bit of my background: I am decent at math but nothing special. I've only done up through Ordinary Differential Equations in school and am currently teaching myself whatever PDE's I can grasp. Math has always brought me immense joy and I think about it often but I don’t think I’m in any position to make a career out of it. I guess you could say it’s more of a hobby. As for programming, school didn’t really teach me much. Most of what I know is self-taught. I’m pretty comfortable with C# but my C++ needs a lot of work. And as you may have guessed, a lot of my programming focus has been on designing games. Designing games is a lot of fun but I don’t think the games industry is something I want to try for.

All that said, I know there are tons of free great resources (many of which I found through this board) but I need some direction. I’m reaching a point in my life where I need a better job that I could potentially make a career out of and I don’t really feel like I’m qualified for any of the positions I want. I can sit around dreaming of working for Google or Khan Academy all day but when it comes down to it I just don’t think I’m good enough. I really hate myself for not having a better idea of what I want and what I’m good at.

I’m sorry this is all a bit scattered. Really, any advice you may have would be greatly appreciated.

>> No.5809511

>>5809502
IMO you should learn the basics, some of them will have no direct application for you, but they will shape your thinking.

Learn complexity theory, learn the theory of computation. A good ressource for that is Coderislands course on the theory of computation and the course on algorithms on Youtube. Add a book or 2 to that.

Learn the basic algorithms: Dijkstra, Floyd Warshall, Quicksort etc. be comfortable with recursion variables and invariables.

Learn some Assembler, use to use Assembler in C++, learn about SSE.

When you have the basics, maybe try to write your own program, that people might want to buy. Build your portfolio

>> No.5810683

>>5809502
>I’m qualified for any of the positions I want

Which are what? It's hard to make good recommendations without a goal in mind...

If you're looking for mathematical jobs at big companies like Google then knowing a lot about LP/Network Flows/Combinatorial Optimization/Approximation Algorithms will help you get your foot in the door:

Introduction to Linear Optimization by Bertsimas & Tsitsiklis
Theory of Linear and Integer Programming by Schrijver
Network Flows by Ahuja, Magnanti & Orlin
Combinatorial Optimization, Polyhedra and Efficiency by Schrijver
Combinatorial Optimization by Cook
Combinatorial Optimization - Theory and Algorithms by Korte & Vygen
Approximation Algorithms by Vazirani

>but my C++ needs a lot of work
C++ Primer Plus
C++ Primer
The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and Reference
(Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment)
The C++ Programming Language

>> No.5810698

>>5810683
>>5809502

If you're looking to fill gaps in your knowledge then theses books might help too:

>To build up your basic CS/CE/Coding knowledge
Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest, Stein
Programming Languages by Tucker
Digital Design: Principles and Practices
Computer Organization and Design: The Hardware/Software Interface
(Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective )
Operating System Concepts
Unix Network Programming, Volume 1: The Sockets Networking API
An Introduction to Parallel Programming
Engineering a Compiler
Compilers: Principles, Techniques, and Tools
Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach
Introduction to the Theory of Computation, by Sipser
Theory of Computation by Kozen
Linux Kernel Development
Linux Device Drivers
Understanding the Linux Kernel

>To build up your basic Math knowledge
Linear Algebra and Its Applications by Strang
A Transition to Advanced Mathematics
Numerical Analysis by Burden
Probability and Stochastic Processes
(A First Course in Probability)
Linear Algebra by Shilov
A Mathematical Introduction to Logic by Enderton
An Introduction to the Theory of Numbers by Hardy & Wright
Graphs & Digraphs by Chartrand, Zhang
Applied Combinatorics by Roberts & Tesman
Complex Variables by Fisher
Signals and Systems by Oppenheim
Discrete-Time Signal Processing by Oppenheim
Applied Partial Differential Equations by Haberman
Partial Differential Equations by Strauss
Algebra by Artin
Topology by Munkres
Principles of Mathematical Analysis by Rudin
Differential Geometry of Curves and Surfaces by Do Carmo

>> No.5811407

>>5809314

so entirely work that you wouldn't be doing as an undergrad anyways?

>> No.5811729

>>5811407
At an utterly shitty school maybe....

All good Physics/Engineering programs should require some lab work. And if you're a math/physics major and don't find yourself utterly compelled to speak to your professor about advance topics that may or may not be connected to what you're currently doing then you're in the wrong major.

>> No.5812021

>>5811729

I made the assumption that this was from math major perspective

what about lab work for topics like operating systems, ai, vision...? are these not the same? the same seems to hold true for discussing advanced levels of these topics

>> No.5813219 [DELETED] 

God Tier Engineer reporting in: Neuroengineering (biomedical engineering)// emphasis in integrated circuit design for neural prosthetics

I have grown to know a many CSci majors throughout my time in academia and the majority of these students are lazy fucktards that complain about all of their homework, projects, papers etc even though they have all semester to get a good start on them.

The CSci program at my institution (american university in the midwest ranked top 25 for all engineering and related fields individually on a global metric) just teaches students how to procrastinate, complain until the professor moves the due date or removes the assignment all together, which has occurred on at least 2 different occasions.

CSci is spited by god-tier engineers as well as the their engineering related counter-parts (chem eng + materials science... etc) because of this. That sort of pleb shit would NOT fly in the harder engineering professions, classical or otherwise. Yes, CSci is math intensive but so is finance, geology, astronomy, sociology, economics, etc etc so that doesn't really factor in much.

CSci's understanding of differential equations is minimal, their physical understanding of engineering problems makes them completely useless in brainstorming sessions etc (speaking from experience in both engineering related research in academia as well as in industry). They *WERE* a necessary component of tech companies and research groups but as more engineers are expected to learn different languages they are becoming more a commodity: useful in tech assistant and systems admin jobs.

>> No.5813230
File: 496 KB, 1072x946, 1358 engineering.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5813230

>>5813219
>God Tier Engineer
>Neuroengineering (biomedical engineering)
pick one

>> No.5813245

>>5813230
While this list is shit, biomedical engineering (and related disciplies; bioengineering, neuroengineering, etc) are shit and rightfully scoffed at by people doing real engineering and science alike.

>> No.5813277

>>5813230

will graduate with 58 credits of upperdivision// graduate level ECE credits. BME was roughly 27 credits worth of material (just to get into those neuro-modulation labs + connects with proffs for career in neuro-mod development) The neuroeng community is very tight knit so you have to make connections in order to get into post-doc or grad work that is actually cool and not just taking pretty pics of neurons.

I do regret not getting an EE degree and taking some BME courses on top of the prescribed curriculum, alas I do not want to spend another 2 years working on my degree.

That all said, i don't know about the institutions that you've visited or studied in but BME is highly respected in the academic community. The rigor of the BME program at schools like Duke, Boston U, JHU and some state schools match if not subject students to a higher rigor ciriculum than ECE, or ChemE. BME curric requires students to take courses in EE (bioelectrical circuits, neuro modulation and engineering, bioinstrumentation and design), Chem Eng (biological transport phenomena, bioreactor design), and the of course the mechanics computational tools courses etc etc etc. so idk what your beef is brohaus.

Also I offer a correction: systems engineering should be in the shit tier and mechanical should move up a bit if only because of its widely applicable subject material.

>> No.5813278

>>5812021
>I made the assumption that this was from math major perspective

Even for math major (if they are good), they're expected to partake in individualize reading in special topics, be asked by their professors to TA other math courses, and take (honors) seminars where they study some advance area/topic(s) and give a lecture(s) about it to their peers. This does the same work that lab work does for other hands on majors where they are expected not only to learn how to do advance math and research on their own but more importantly, learn how to clearly and concisely communicate advance topics to people of various skill levels.

>> No.5813313

>>5813230
>>be god tier chem E
>>Mfw CSci shitter sometimes call themselves engineers

it annoys the shit out of me, you don't see engineers claiming to be physicists or mathematicians, but it's fine to tack engineering onto everything.

>> No.5813316

I live in Slovenia, comp sci here has or at least had
Analysis I
Analysis II
Linear Algebra
Discrete Mathematics
Combinatorical Mathematics
Nothing special but not really unmath.

>> No.5813317

>>5813277
The thing is, BME is not well established so the difficulty of different schools isn't well known and most just default to assuming you're a heavily watered version of "jack of all engineering" which is mostly true in many schools. And for the jobs that BME can do, they can be equally well done by the closest applicably big name engineering (MechE/ChemE/ECE) and employers will tend to prefer them over BMEs when hiring because their rigor/skill is well known.

The same can also be said of other customs/free form degree programs (Applied Science, Engineering Physics), you can get jobs but you need to sell yourself much harder.

>> No.5813320

>>5813230
Isn't genetic engineering part of biomed engineering?

>> No.5813326

>>5813316
>Analysis I
>Analysis II
High school math
>Linear Algebra
>Discrete Mathematics
>Combinatorical Mathematics
Middle school math

>> No.5813336

>>5813317

Well articulated and spot on. Bravo anon


>>5813320

Yes it is though it usually falls under the cellular or tissue engineering field.

>>5813313
Dude yes. I've lived with a handful of CScis and I also hated that they do this with such frequency. The problem is that by trade they will be engineers (ie software engineer, systems engineer, etc) but that does NOT mean that they are by education an engineer. I know this dumbass kid out of highschool that failed his senior year because he couldn't finish "college algebra" which was the retard-tier math course offered by the highschool. He now has a job in a machine shop and his title is rivet-engineer. This kid pisses me off so fucking much because he is an imbecile and calls himself an engineer while I'm at school busting my ass 70+ hours a week on my engineering degree... really rustles muuuh jimmies

>> No.5813345

>>5812021
>what about lab work for topics like operating systems, ai, vision...? are these not the same?

CS lab work is either:
>TA hand holds you while you type the same code
>TA is just going over the solutions to last week's hw
>TA is just going over the solutions to next week's hw (and the retards still don't understand)

Unless you're talking about projects which can be, and are, all done by one person and are a little more than just regular HW assignments.

>> No.5813362

I'm a CS student and I dislike CS. Honestly, I took the required Software Engineering course by my department and realized right there that CS and especially Software Engineering was not for me.

Unfortunately I'm in my senior year. I should've acted faster, I knew from about the end of my sophomore year that I wasn't liking it. I thought maybe it would get better in the upper level courses. It didn't.

>> No.5813373 [DELETED] 

>>5813230
How is aerospace a low tier?

>> No.5813374

Physics is the only god-tier engineering field, all other fields just leech off of our work.

>> No.5813378
File: 32 KB, 740x308, purity.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5813378

>>5813374
Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my purity.

>> No.5813381

Electrical engineering is fucking easy, try programming for that shit. Now that really takes some talent

>> No.5813385

>>5813381
why not do both, engineer efficient datapaths in the cpu wafers AND the sweetass custom programs you can run on your custom cpu.

>> No.5813386
File: 1.01 MB, 230x173, ke2NsRI.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5813386

>>5813381
cout << "Hello, Cunt" << endl;

Yeah, fucking talent right there.

>> No.5813393

>>5813386
bro, do you even STL? cout is fucking useless unless you have some values to output.

>> No.5813397

You guys are all faggots, without chemistry we wouldn't have any notion of electrical conductivity.

Chemistry and chemical engineering is the only god-tier engineering field.

>> No.5813401

Hi, i am an electron and I am the only god tier engineer in this thread.

captcha:
Smelly Faggots

>> No.5813403

>>5813362
The big issue is that I had led myself to believe that computer science was something that it wasn't. Most of the students in CS were either in it because they heard software engineering makes a lot of money or IT guys hoping it would help their career. I thought it would be more focused on research and the people in the department would be people who loved math, computers, technology, etc. and wanted to do research/development in it.

The Software Engineering course was the final straw for me. It solidified my growing dread that all I've been working towards is a glorified IT/"Code Monkey" certificate.

I've began to study some electrical engineering stuff in my free time and find it quite interesting. I don't know if I should try to pursue that as a graduate topic or go for graduate CS and hope for the best.

I actually meet the requirements for entrance to biomed engineering graduate program at one of the universities I've been looking at. Like someone else in this thread said, it's probably not a great degree, although the specific subject matter does interest me.

>> No.5813405

I study Nuclear and Particle Engineering - Particle Accelerators orientation. And i want to tell you, that CS will suck in math. I know it, because i have a friend on CS.
Europe-fag

>> No.5813406

>>5813403
faggot

>> No.5813417

>>5813386
That's like saying math is easy and using 2+2=4 as justification. Feck off.

>> No.5813420

People need Jesus not mathematics all the math or money in the world won't get them to heaven

>> No.5813421

>>5813417

A math degree is a total shit degree to work for, it is the least applicable in the real world.

"Oh wow, i just solved this PDE in a relativistic frame that is totally non-physical and has no implications for anyone outside of the bubble that i live in"

do yourself a favor and kill yourself.

>> No.5813423

>>5813405
Ask me anything if you want.

>> No.5813424
File: 1.88 MB, 259x258, kangaroo-balls.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5813424

>>5813417
Math is easy, you fag. Math is so simple that a book can teach you all of it. That, of course, is a trivial problem left as an exercise to the reader.

>> No.5813425
File: 398 KB, 420x500, 1370064062656.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5813425

>>5813420

>> No.5813433

>>5813381

>>whole degree is focused on being a code monkey
>>meanwhile engineers and other respectable sciences learn programming on the side while focusing on actual fields of importance
>>not as good as logic as math/physics majors
>>not as good at having applicable skills as an engineer

Hell even my intro programming class in engineering was more rigorous (C++) than intro cs classes (java). Face it your only career prospects are to become code monkeys.

>> No.5813436
File: 1.29 MB, 300x150, cage.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5813436

>>5813433
>language taught makes one class more difficult than the other.

You may be condemned to be a code monkey.

>> No.5813438

>>5813433

>>not as good as logic as math/physics majors
>> not as good as logic as math/physics

What flavor of retard are you, kid?

>> No.5813442

All codemonkeys can make circlejerk, because when i was at CERN working with LHC it was so fucking great feeling. And very good financial gifts.

>> No.5813453
File: 128 KB, 728x426, peak.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5813453

>>5813433
>>5813438
max level achieved.

>> No.5813455

>>5813436
If engineers can do what you do as a fucking side job and do it better, then you have a problem.
>>5813438
so instead of making an argument, you point out a spelling mistake. Jesus Christ.

>> No.5813460

>>5813438
>>5799102

the thing is, it's easy to pass CS classes without doing shit. but if you're actually interested or good at what you're doing, you can get some pretty interesting jobs.

sameasanyothermajor.jpg

>> No.5813461

>>5813455
>says engineers can do it better
>doesn't post any evidence
>mad that someone doesn't make an argument

I'm out of autism gifs...

>> No.5813464

>>5813455

rags on dr.manhattan tier engineering tradition, doesn't post his area of study.

shut up you autistic, grammar handicapped cock slave. Go read your shitty poli-sci shit faggot

>> No.5813484

How is U of Waterloo as a comp sci/math school? It gets high praise here near Waterloo, but I have a feeling it's just wanking. Only have about $27,000 to spend on school, then whatever I can get from a loan after that's gone.

>> No.5813492

Mathematicians and physicists can read through the seminal works in their respective fields and understand them. Most CS students would shit themselves 10 pages into TAOCP.

>> No.5813493

>>5813461
All the engineering rejects end up in CS. This is conclusive evidence.
>>5813464
I'm a god tier chem E, I am laughing with my other god tier EE, comp E friends at you and your "vidya game" degree

>> No.5813710

>>5813493
but I've never wanted to be an engineer... in fact I have engineer friends who had to drop out of highschool programming courses.

>> No.5813797

>>5813710

You guys keep mentioning all this stuff being taught in high school. Just what country do you all live in where they teach you liner algebra or programming beyond "hello world" at high school? The most I have ever got out of a computer class in high school was photoshop, flash, word and excel and they NEVER actually showed us how to use the program or anything. All they ever did was say "okay here is the lasso tool so just crawl like an ant over your picture blah" projects that take all week long.

>> No.5813847
File: 10 KB, 250x260, 1211160390183.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
5813847

>>5813797

>> No.5813849

>>5813797
Linear Algebra is standard iming not so much.n Germany, program

>> No.5813853

>>5813797
this is the sad truth, raspberry pi want's to change this though

>> No.5813889

>>5813797
Guy who posted that here... I live in Canada. The programming classes aren't necessarily good here, but we had a teacher who really pushed us. I'll never forget him.

>> No.5813904

>>5813849
Linear Algebra is standard in germany, programming not.

Fucking touchpad.

>> No.5813915

>>5813904
>>5813849
Wait, so you guys didn't even learn programming in high school? Here I was feeling bad about not being a programming prodigy by that time.

>> No.5814320

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_wd9Qf0IE

>> No.5814572

>>5813493
>mfw CMU CS rejects go into engineering
>mfw I have no face

>> No.5814585

>>5800330
Oh god this, so much this.

>> No.5814611

>>5813326
I love how at my university "Analysis" is a subject you take after taking 4 calculus classes and only for Math majors, and in the USA seems to be some introduction to calculus bullshit.

>> No.5814692

>>5800322
this

>> No.5814712

>>5807148
theres nothing you can't learn for your own, but there are so many textbooks with deprecated methodologies like Jackson analysis, old assembly languages, old operating systems, push browser, a professor guides you so you do not waste time learning things that do not need

>> No.5814734

>>5813484
>not going to University of Toronto or British Columbia
You're missing out on the kr / azn qt's

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