[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 442 KB, 768x1024, 86b1c7efe3e7d94d66936b14a32d7a19[2].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5794331 No.5794331 [Reply] [Original]

>fluoride rinses can remineralize caries before they become full on cavities
>but we still don't have a substance that can fix a cavity permanently and fill in the structure with a bio-enamel


I don't understand why we still shove metal and plastic in tooth holes? We've been doing this for 150 years.

>> No.5794339

Dentistry is a business. Those mercury and plastic fillings have finite life expectancies.

>> No.5794343

>>5794339
>Those mercury and plastic fillings have finite life expectancies.

Fine, but it's also a medical issue. They can't at least invent a better filling that doesn't actually make your tooth health worse?

It just seems like it moves super slow in that field and every breakthrough is so fucking weird. If you break your arm, they don't cut it off.

>> No.5794368

>>5794331
> Be dentist
> Make lots of money
Problem?

>> No.5794438

>>5794368
Why not make money with advancements in technology though?

People are always going to have cavities and need preventitive care at cheaper prices. If dentists actually healed teeth they'd have 10x more customers.

>> No.5794504

>>5794438
more customers != more money

>> No.5794509

>>5794438
you can invent all the preventive care in the world, but that won't make morons brush their teeth. Repair exists due to poor hygiene. There is already enough advanced preventive care cheaply available for everyone, just use it.

>> No.5794526

>>5794504
>More people paying != More money
u wot m8

>> No.5794553

>>5794504
>no, we don't want more customers

no business that was looking to grow ever said this

>> No.5794557

all these counterarguments of "they're just using planned obsolescence!" is flimsy.
if some other small company made a product that repaired cavities, what would they do with it? of course they'd sell the shit out of it, they're a small company, they don't think long term.
and boom your entire house of cards is gone

>> No.5794568

>>5794557
so then why is progress so slow in the dental field?

It just seems crazy that the fillings they use basically cause more decay and root canals kill the tooth completely, setting yourself up for an empty bacteria chamber in waiting.

>>5794509
>but that won't make morons brush their teeth

Some people have genetically weak teeth as well. And even so, ok the morons keep getting cavities over and over. Just means another 400 or 500 bucks to fill it with the miracle good that actually restores enamel (or bioenamel).

There you go, repeat customers.

>> No.5794574

>>5794553
look into pareto principle, most businesses grow by dropping worthless customers.

so in most cases where you aren't indiscriminately targeting every living human, growing companies don't want more customers, they want better ones.

you only regularly hear about the companies that target everyone though, so you incorrectly assume that most companies do.

>> No.5794583

I think the real question is why are basic dental needs rarely covered as much as medical needs?

If you're sick or hurt you can go to the ER and they HAVE to treat you even if you can't afford it.

You'll get a bill later that you have to pay but they still help you.

>> No.5794589

>>5794583
it's part of our religious puritanical history.

we say, if you brush and floss like you should you won't have problems.
so if you have problems it's your own damn fault and you deserve to feel the full consequences of your failures. (sins) (see also, sloth)

we don't do that as much with other health matters because god said we can eat meat and smoke cigarettes and watch tv all day. Murrica!

>> No.5794604

>>5794568
Wait, people still put metal in fillings? The only filling I had was a composite resin filling, which have been used for like twenty years. Those can actually strengthen a tooth. Also, a tooth isn't a simple piece of bone, hell it's not even bone. A tooth can't repair itself like a bone. That's gotta be a reason it's been so difficult to create your miracle substance.

>> No.5794608

>>5794604
Yup, I had a huge metal filling put in a few months ago. Will need a root canal on it eventually.

Composite resin is shit, I have those too. It doesn't strengthen the tooth at all and they only last for about 5-7 years before they start shrinking and need to be replaced. Metal fillings can crack a tooth easier over time but actually last longer and are stronger than composites.

>> No.5794627

>>5794608
Well, then. I should be glad mine was almost unnoticable.

I still think the overlaying problem is that creating a miracle substance that can repair damage that can be months, even years in the making, isn't easy.

Even if people want to say that genetics screwed them with weeker teeth that doesn't mean its impossible, or even hard, to take care of their teeth. Unless you have a serious condition that causes extreme fragility in your teeth that's all that can be said. Simple science has already provided the preventive care for the vast majority (which you most likely fall into unless you have a recognized condition)

>> No.5794642

>that feel when permanent, awful dark stains on my top and bottom teeth because of fluoride
>go to dentist
>'what are they?'
>dental fluorosis
>shitty, jagged teeth anyway but now they're much worse because I would obsessively clean them with mounds of toothpaste
>no choice but to get ungodly expensive veneers
>getting veneers is a pain in and of itself because the ones that look like actual teeth cost an arm and maybe a leg
>cheaper ones are immediately obviously fake

Thank you dental industry

>> No.5794652

>>5794642
>blames the dental industry for his own obviously stupid and unhealthy ways
Thank you idiot parents for producing this inbred offspring and not teaching him the correct way to brush his teeth.

>> No.5794666

>>5794642
Not realizing that it is you
>obsessively cleaning them with mounds of toothpaste
that is causing the dental flourosis.

>> No.5794686

>>5794642
sue the toothpaste industry for not properly labeling how to use their product in a safe and non destructive manner. You, their customer, were led to believe that their product would be nothing but a benefit to your dental hygiene and they in no way attempted to make you aware that in excessive use their product could indeed damage your teeth. You could potentially bring suit against the United States as well, as they are fluoridating our water supply which could have further aggravated the problem. Then again, I've only slept about 30 minutes in the past 2 days.

>> No.5794692

>>5794331
Well, you know, according to transhumanists, we're like a few decades away from immortality, mind uploading and exponential intelligence.

So we will be immortal and superintelligent, but we will get dental fillings made out of resin or metal, which are less immortal, of course.

>> No.5794695

>>5794692
dohoho
>believing that your actual consciousness would be transferred into the computer and it not simply be a digital history and simulation of you.
Nigga, you need philosophy.

>> No.5794721

>>5794666
When I say 'obsessively' I mean I'd brush with a regular sized amount twice a day. Every time I went and got a check up they'd tell me that 'it's normal' or 'it's nothing to worry about'.

They wouldn't even tell me what it was, I had to google it to find out.

>> No.5794726

>>5794721
>they'd tell me that 'it's normal' or 'it's nothing to worry about'.

Dentists fucking suck at telling you the truth

>> No.5794728

>>5794666

fluorosis happens during tooth development

>> No.5794742

> plastic in tooth holes? We've been doing this for 150 years.
>plastic
>150 years.

>> No.5794747

>>5794742
I agree, he shouldn't talk about the secrets of the Dentist of Illuminati so freely.

>> No.5794763

What I don't get is why enamel can't be grown back? I understand it has no blood supply but couldn't it be treated and re-mineralized in a clinic setting?

Also couldn't you easily do the same with the tooth pulp and dentin since they have a blood supply?

>> No.5794770

Whatever happened with this:

http://www.gizmag.com/go/5971/

>"If the root is broken, it can now be fixed," said Dr. Tarak El-Bialy from the Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry. "And because we can regrow the teeth root, a patient could have his own tooth rather than foreign objects in his mouth."

This was 7 years ago. They had 8 years of research and clinical trials to back up their findings that ultrasound waves can heal and regrow tooth roots and dentin. Why are we still doing root canals?

>> No.5794836

bump

>> No.5794883

>>5794695
>Believing a perfect simulation of you cannot be conscious.

>>>/x/

The brain isn't magic.

>> No.5795182

Look, derpers, face facts: Your teeth only need to last about 90 years. You'll be buried or burned with them anyway. So there's only so much money you're sanely going to invest in them to keep them going. Fillings are economic. You can get a filling to last 25 years if you take care of it.

>> No.5795187

At any rate, vapor deposition is a mature technology. Why not make use of arguably cheap vap-dep equipment and lay on material in the carie that's chemically similar to enamel or dentin?

>> No.5795210

>>5795187
the temperatures involved aren't friendly to soft tissue

>> No.5795262

>>5795210

Then deposit at a slower rate, birdbrain, since that's less energy delivered. You're rebuilding caries that will be a fix that lasts for decades. You can therefore afford to have the patient sit in his chair for a longer period of time.

>> No.5795266

OP, is that April O'Neil?

>> No.5795471

>>5794568
>so then why is progress so slow in the dental field?
because materials science isn't really "there yet", and teeth are basically just biomaterials
also dentistry isn't considered a high priority medical field, contrary to stuff like researching malaria or avian flu or cancer or heart disease

>> No.5795483
File: 15 KB, 353x606, 1270355514780.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5795483

you all realize that this is within a few years of getting to the market right?
http://www.oragenics.com/?q=cavity-prevention
it basically replaces all the bad paque producing bacteria with almost the same strain but it produces a mild antibiotic instead of acid, so it completely displaces the local population, and you literally don't get cavities or plaque anymore. ever

>> No.5795502

>>5795266
Yes, and if im not mistaken she's also the pronstar by the name of apirl oneil.
Mostly softcore but she's done some bdsm. She also markets herself as something of a hot geek.

>> No.5795526

dem TITTAYS

>> No.5795572

>>5794438
>If dentists actually healed teeth they'd have 10x more customers.
>10x more customers.
>implying 90% (or more) people don't go to the dentist.
The dental trade has nearly saturated their potential market.

>> No.5795595

>>5794883
But it wouldn't be _you_, just a (conscious) replica.

>> No.5795610

>>5795595
If you make a perfect copy of something, it isn't a copy, it's another original. Particles don't have memories.

>> No.5795612

>>5795610
>If you copy something, it isn't a copy
Muh sides

>> No.5795615

>>5795502
You're right
>that scene with her in the bathroom
HRRRRUUUUUUUGGNNNNHNHHNHNNH

>> No.5795627

>>5795612
You're an idiot. What is a copy? What is your expected difference if you make a copy of something?

What, nothing? A copy is exactly the original, and if you mixed the two up nobody would even hypothetically ever be able to call you on it? Looks like you're using a pointless word.

>> No.5795632

>>5795627
When you have one X, and you produce another X from it, you say you have produced a copy. If you think it's a useless word, good for you, but that doesn't make the statement wrong. For example, somebody might decide "large" is a useless word as "big" already covers it, but that wouldn't mean they could go round saying everybody using the word "large" is wrong.

>> No.5795642

>>5795632
Ok, but saying "It's only a copy" IS wrong.

Physics isn't about "THIS particle here, THAT particle there" it's "A particle here, a particle there". If you perfectly copy someone, then kill the original, they keep on living, because that that exact moment, the two had the same identity.

In other words, I would totally teleport, and see no reason not to, your existance changes more each time you blink compared to being uploaded or cloned.

>> No.5795651

>>5795642
Okay, but if you cloned yourself, then committed suicide, you'd still die. Someone who is mentally identical to you would go on living, but you'd still die.

>> No.5795661

>>5795651
But this is a trick of language. It supposes that you != "someone who is mentally identical to you", when that is simply untrue. They are the same thing, your statement could be written "If you cloned yourself, then committed suicide, you'd still die. You would go on living, but you'd still die".

And I respond "If I go on living after dying, then what does death even MEAN?"

Death is when you stop existing and there is no clone. As long as you have a backup, you don't actually die.

>> No.5795717

>>5794331
Based April O'Neil bro

>> No.5795830

Why are people talking about consciousness in this thread.


>>5795262
interesting....


>>5795502
>Mostly softcore

No no- April has done quite a bit of hardcore. Maybe not anymore, but she did. A lot.

>>5795483
born 2 early

>> No.5795839

>>5794331
Cant tell if testicle tuck or Miss Muffington her self

>> No.5795861

>see that picture
>zoom in to see if that's a tardis
>what am i doing

>> No.5795931

>>5795839
huh? It's a girl

>>5795861
bein a fag lol

>> No.5795951

>>5795182

>dental thread
>"face facts"

oh you

>> No.5795957

>>5795951
???

>> No.5796001

>>5794770
How can ultrasounds regrow teeth structures?

>> No.5796036

Gold fillings last a long ass time.

>> No.5796046

>>5796036
Most dentists don't use gold- it's difficult to place well and well, why would they want you having something for a long ass time?

>> No.5796054

>>5795957
Teeth are in the head, which has the face on it.

>> No.5796061

>>5796054
oh man that;s a bit of a stretch dude...

>> No.5796069
File: 124 KB, 482x852, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5796069

>>5794331
Fluoride rinses cause mouth cancers.
Listerene went full retard when this was discovered a few years ago.
Fluoride rinses will kill you quicker than fillings will fall out due to demineralisation.

>> No.5796080

>>5796069
>Fluoride rinses cause mouth cancers.

Well this could be true but the problem is everyone who says fluoride is evil also says shit like "Vaccines are a conspiracy" and "you can heal cavities with the right foods and plant roots"

>> No.5796107

>>5796080
No one said any such thing.
Your autism is your own vaccines had nothing to do with it.

Johnson & Johnsons lawyers however disagree.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/27/johnson-johnson-sued-mouthwash-cancer-fears

>> No.5796150
File: 114 KB, 900x762, TMNTaprilOneal2[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5796150

one of you science goons get on this stat

use your math

>> No.5796174 [DELETED] 
File: 5 KB, 495x571, temp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5796174

>>5796107
Johnson and Johnson would sue you for calling this green if they got a case.

>> No.5796234

>>5794589
>implying cavities are the only issue treated by dentists
Most cavities probably could be prevented by proper flossing and brushing and not drinking soda or eating candy but there are also other dental issues that are not caused by lack of hygiene by the person.

>> No.5796250

>>5795651
>>5795661

Alright you two, consider the following scenarios:

1. Your brain is uploaded onto a computer, and your body left to rot. Assuming transhumanism is correct, you will continue to exist in the same way you did before, albeit in a computer.

2. Your brain is COPIED onto a computer, and your conscious self is kept alive. Your conscious self is then killed after the fact. You are now dead, and a copy of you exists in the computer.

What's the difference?

>> No.5796260

>>5796250
So much this. Just like in theory, if you teleport via deconstruction of your body on an atomic level and reconstructing it wherever you're teleporting to it would not be "you". It would be just like you, complete with all your memories, but you would have been essentially vaporized at the site of the teleportation.

>> No.5796270

>>5796250
transhumanism is incorrect
if you upload your brain data to a computer, will you have 2 consciousnesses at the same time?

>> No.5796272

>>5796250
I would say due to the growing knowledge of how bacteria and the human biome works and how parasites like toxoplasmosis effect the way we think and behaviour that transhumanism will cause stagnation in humans emotionally because the cascading effects of internal bacteria to our mindset and immediate well being will be lost and therefore only a PARTIAL copy of us at that exact time will ever be successfully uploaded to a hard drive.

>> No.5796279

Why can't scientists mimic/apply ameloblasts on a tooth to regenerate enamel?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908039/

>> No.5796336

>>5794574
I don't think that principle fits this discussion necessarily. Seeing as everyone who goes to a dental office will pay the same amount for a certain aspect of treatment. Aside from a business, dentists are also health care providers. For them not everything should be about making more money, but optimizing money making and the amount of people that can be helped. With more of a focus on helping people if the dentist is a decent human being.

>>5795572
>90%
After a quick google search, you can find that a large portion of US citizens (1 in 5) have untreated cavities. If lower cost treatment options are available then all of the people who can't normally afford it can be treated.

>> No.5796341

>>5796336
>If lower cost treatment options are available then all of the people who can't normally afford it can be treated.

Yup, this was my thinking.

>> No.5796346

>>5796272
>whole paragraph of bullshit (esp muh taxocatfungi)
If you were to treat any infection or take any drugs, are you going to say you are no longer you because your brain chemistry changed a little?
Idiot.

Sage for star wars teleporter thread derailment.

>> No.5796345

>>5796336
>dentists are also health care providers. For them not everything should be about making more money

Also this, but for some reason dental work is not considered health care

>> No.5796361

>>5796346
Living in a computer totally ignores the human biome.
You're obvious butthurt shows you knows there is truth in it.
But fine delude yourself with pseudo scifi fantasy.
Whiny bitch.

>> No.5796372

>>5796361
>umadubutthurtupussy
Interesting.

>> No.5796392

>>5796372
Tell you what once you can download your consciousness into a 3d printed clone of yourself and spend 6months in a coma after fecal transplants from your previous host so you can digest food then we'll talk about the glorious future of the human species.
Until then you're just a fat shit in a Babylon 5 t shirt.

>> No.5796411

>>5796250
The copy is you.

This kind of misunderstanding is why people don't sign up for cryonics. First off, if your brain is copied, and your conscious self is kept alive, there are now two yous, and if they experience any difference, they will become different individuals. Only at the moment of copying (Assuming it is instantaneous, which it would not be) are the two the same person.

>>5796270
Yes, but the two would likely not be linked (unless you develop a way to constantly transmit new data to the computer) At the moment they are different, it is no longer entirely you.

Particles don't have memories, there is no "essential essence" of you, duality is retarded. if you make a copy of something, and that copy is perfect, it is another original, that copy is you, and you are that copy. I fail to see why you assume you would somehow die.

>> No.5796419

>>5796392
Someone's upset.

>> No.5796525

Why are people arguing about star trek and consciousness in this thread

>> No.5796537

>>5796411
I dont think dualism is retarded. Consciousness is created 100% by the material body, I dont believe in some soul woo.

I dont assume you would die, the copy would just be completelly seperate being, that acts in a similar way, but isnt the same.

You could do this, if you want your ideals etc. to live on, but the one experiencing the world would not be you.

>> No.5796557

>>5796234
I dunno. My top teeth are/were shitty as hell. My bottom teeth are healthy as a motherflipper. I think part of it is indeed hygiene, but I think part of it is quite possibly intrinsic, too.

I mean, that, and maybe teeth aren't made to last that long yet, we haven't evolved that far or something. Remember, just 100 years ago, lifespan was half of what it is today in some parts of the world. Maybe teeth aren't designed to deal with superfluous amounts of sugar, and aren't designed to last more than 40 years or so. As age increases, maybe tooth life will too.

>> No.5796561

And to the transhuman stuff. Deal with it. You have one consciousness. Maybe we hivemind someday. Probably not. I mean, I could rephrase your question to say 'well, we both have a consciousness. If I kill myself does yours end?' And then you're in phucking /phi/

>> No.5796566

>>5796537
This is a very non-intuitive area of discussion, because everyone subconsciously assume their consciousness is apart from their body. They think, "I would cease to exist, and my perfect copy would begin existing, but my stream of consciousness would stop".

But I can't really buy that, it's just not true. There's nothing essential or fundamental about our consciousness, it's just neurons firing.

Basically, what would convince you that teleporters wouldn't kill you? There is no evidence that could exist, your belief is unfalsifiable. Even going through one, you would say "That DID kill me, I am merely a copy of my old self with all his memories!".

Fuck unfalsifiable beliefs, they're no fun to argue about, you can never test them, they're useless.

>> No.5796621

The human biome guy is right.
There's so many factors that can change a person through the course of a day.
Just say a transporter copied you when you had a migraine coming on?
Are you then doomed to migraines forever?
The body is more than just neutrons firing its a delicate balance of chemicals, bacteria, bacteriophages, so many variables!
All to be caught and determined at that moment with no real way of defining what is median behaviour for the individual's make up.

>> No.5796710

>>5796621
>Implying a computer can't model the brain well enough to change state

Come on, if you can't get rid of a migraine, this is shit tier uploading.

>> No.5797463

>>5794331
Noice jugs.

>> No.5797483

Why can't we just grow new teeth? We do it once and some animals teeth keep growing or grow new teeth throughout their lifetime. It's it because they're easy to replace with fakes that work just as well?

>> No.5797496

>>5796566
I think of it like cutting as starfish or worm in half. It becomes two starfish/worms and both are the original. One or the other can die but the original is still alive.

>> No.5797506

>>5797483
We don't do it once.
>i.stack.imgur.com/35njF.jpg

>> No.5797514

>>5794339
>>5794368
If you had the choice between going to a dentist who jammed metal and plastic into your teeth also you would have to go back to maintain it later and you could go a dentist who fixed it permanently which would you choose?

It's a fucking no brainer.

>> No.5797520

>>5797506
What happened with that image there?
I actually have a few extra teeth that didn't break the skin, but they grew at the same time as my other teeth.

>> No.5797530

>>5797520
It's child's skull with parts removed so you can see the teeth. My point was that you are born with permanent teeth, they just come out later on, when you get rid of milk teeth (which would be actual teeth if the child was alive).

>> No.5797549

>>5797506
Fucking christ, that's a class A cringe/disgust picture and moreover, it's completely normal for everyone.

>> No.5798317

>>5797514
I've rarely gone back to the same dentist though, because most of them have done a sloppy ass job in my opinion or were very very cold.

One dentist drilled a hole and FORGOT TO FILL IT or filled it so bad the filling instantly fell out or some shit, because by the time I got home, it was gone.

Pretty sure he was an alcoholic.

>> No.5799635

>>5796525
It is the only topic some resident /sci/entists have any "knowledge" about.

>> No.5799638

>>5796710
>A digitized copy of your brain uploaded to a computer that change its state at will to satisfy predetermined algorithmic conditions.
>you
pick one