[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 1.69 MB, 350x272, muhscience.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770209 No.5770209[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Modern Physics:
>Light has no mass
>Light cannot escape the gravitational pull of a black hole

Seriously even creationists aren't this dump

>> No.5770214

>>5770209
>dump

lel

>> No.5770213

>>5770209
Not sure if you're trolling but the reason why light can't escape a black hole is because the mass of the bh causes the extreme spacetime curvature. Kind of like a "knot." Light follows geodesics which are the "straight" lines in this knot geometry

>> No.5770219

Photons have ~10^ -50 kg
You wot mate???

>> No.5770218

>>5770209

Gravitational lensing.

>> No.5770223

Do you understand the concept of a geodesic?

>> No.5770227

so why is light - massless - affected by gravity?

people are saying "gravity bends space" and I can imagine that making light bend around the edge of a star or black hole but how does that account for normal gravity between two massive bodies?

is there two types of gravity?

>> No.5770239

>>5770227
No according to all of the above, this basic explanation is that the gravity of a black hole is so huge that nothing can escape it. Even nothingness can't escape the gravitational pull of a black hole.

hope it makes sense to you, because it doesn't make sense to me.

>> No.5770240

>>5770227
Gravity bends the straight line of light.
If a train track has a bend in it the train must follow it.

>> No.5770245

>relativistic mass
Google it, idiots

>> No.5770254
File: 13 KB, 480x360, carl4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770254

>>5770209
Light doesn't have mass but it does have momentum.

Mass in general relativity produces a curvature of spacetime that affects inertial paths of objects (paths of maximum proper time).

In the case of a black hole, once you get beyond a certain distance all of the inertial paths that objects can travel, even the ones for light, only lead deeper into the gravitational well of the black hole.

>> No.5770256

The source of gravity is not mass, it's energy and momentum.

>> No.5770286
File: 1.41 MB, 350x272, 1368342037762.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770286

>Seriously even creationists aren't this dump

>> No.5770301

>implying gravity only acts on massive objects

>> No.5770327

>People talking with confidence that black holes exist
Top lel, they have not been observed yet and probably never will.

>> No.5770334

>>5770327

Cygnus X-1.

Or do you have some private meaning for the word observe?

>> No.5770352

>>5770334
The only pictures I see from it are artists impressions, it's not proof enough to have some vague descriptions and collected data which might imply that it is a black hole.

>> No.5770354

>>5770352
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Observational_evidence
Go ahead and disprove every citation notes if you feel like losing your time disproving something we're sure exist.

>> No.5770357

>>5770354
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Observational_evidence
>. A black hole's existence can sometimes be inferred by observing its gravitational interactions with its surroundings
And there you go, they won't exist until I see a clear picture from them like I do of let's say mars.

>> No.5770359

>>5770352
So atoms don't exist? Don't say 'muh scanning tunneling microscope', because that collects electrical data which is turned into a visual image. We certainly can't see single electrons in any sense, but we can determine their effects.
What sort of proof do you want?

>> No.5770360

>>5770352

spinning at over 800 times a second ... mass of 14.8 times the sun....

>> No.5770363

>>5770357

So we have established you do indeed have your own private meaning for the word observe.

Why should we care about your autism?

>> No.5770370

>>5770357
Following your logic, electrons do not exist, since we can't get a "picture" of them.
I don't think you belong to /sci/.

>> No.5770369

>>5770359
IBM made a movie using atoms.
I want a picture of a black hole taken with a telescope. What's so difficult about that if they indeed exists ?

>> No.5770394

>>5770327
retard, you cant observe a black hole (light dont reflect of them) but we do see the effects of the black hole.

>> No.5770399

>>5770394

So it's a bit when somebody farts, you can't see their butt because they have pants but you can smell the effects it has on the space close to it.

>> No.5770401
File: 2.00 MB, 412x422, 1362260235033.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770401

>>5770369
>I want a picture of a black hole taken with a telescope.
Well, astronomers can do that.
All they have to do is to detect a black hole thanks to its interaction with nearby stars, and then point their telescope to its location.
What would you see? Nothing at all, since black holes don't emit any light.

>> No.5770402

light has mass m = E/c^2. it has no rest mass.
saging because troll thread

>> No.5770404

>>5770399
yes, you infer the existence of the brown hole from its effects on nearby nostrils.

>> No.5770415

>>5770401
Not that guy but don't they have jets of material and light that shoot out of them?

>> No.5770420

>>5770415
Extremely hard to observe.
I don't think we even observed any yet.

>> No.5770424

>>5770420
How do we know about them?

>> No.5770437

>>5770402
If it has no rest mass(which it doesn't), then you gave the wrong equation. The full equation is e^2=m^2c^4+p^2c^2, and given no rest mass for photons the energy is e=pc

>> No.5770438

>>5770219
No they don't

>> No.5770440

>>5770327
Except they have.

>> No.5770477

>>5770424
Read the thread:
>>5770354

>> No.5770503

>>5770209
Opinion wavers as to the resting mass of light, But it carrys energy which is effected by gravity and has an effect proportional to its equivalent mass.

>> No.5770506
File: 1.08 MB, 3072x2304, 153309main_hidden_blackhole_lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770506

> Gravity is a force that acts upon objects with momentum and energy
> Light has both
> High school equations and concepts ala g = G((m1m2)/d^2)) and p = mv are simplified

>> No.5770516

Imagine a river flowing along a flat surface moving forward,

Now place a crater so that the center of the crater is not in the path of the water, but part of the bowed edge is. What will happen to the water flow?

You now understand how light is affected by gravity.

>> No.5770525

There are ten parts of the stress-energy tensor.
Mass is not the only thing that generates gravitational effects.
Also, here is a video made from observations of stars at the centre of the galaxy. Shown to be orbiting nothing.
http://www.eso.org/public/videos/eso1151e/

>> No.5770528

Mass doesnt really have much to do with gravity, it is just "condensed" energy. Gravity is caused by energy (hot objects have a bit more gravity than cold, and even a beam of light with no rest mass has gravity). And gravity affects everything, not only stuff with mass.

>> No.5770538
File: 1.51 MB, 3264x2448, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770538

Yes.

>> No.5770551

>>5770437
E=pc = (m*v)*c, but v = c for light
so E=mc^2---> E/c^2=m
checkmate

>> No.5770556

>>5770551
That's the Newtonian formula for momentum, it's doesn't apply to relativistic systems.

>> No.5770573

>>5770551

The momentum of a photon is <span class="math">\frac{h}{\lambda}[/spoiler], where h is plank's constant and <span class="math">\lambda [/spoiler] is the wave length of the photon. In terms of frequency, the momentum is <span class="math">\frac{hf}{c}[/spoiler]

>> No.5770580

>>5770556
didn't say it was rest mass. it's more of a reletivistic, effective mass for the photon, on the order of 10^-65 kg

>> No.5770592
File: 257 KB, 2262x1596, I+cry+evertim+_f4a1dfd9be5ad3c245c8fc187d4bbf92.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770592

/sci/ on a good day
>obvious troll thread
>~40 replies

srs, even atheists aren't this easily trolled

>> No.5770597

>>5770580
So why did you respond to a post about rest mass?

>> No.5770603
File: 9 KB, 296x238, 1367759981454.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770603

>>5770401
>black holes exist guys!
>look at this blank area of space, that proves it!

>> No.5770641

/sci/ a board for failed physicists

>> No.5770650

>>5770603
A point in space which has stars orbiting it at incredible speed which flares up and emits high energy radiation is not nothing.

>> No.5770655
File: 973 KB, 256x186, 1363842226701.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770655

>>5770209
>Seriously even creationists aren't this dump
>even creationists aren't this dump
>creationists aren't this dump
>aren't this dump
>this dump
>dump

>> No.5770659

>>5770655
Surely you're the autist for pointing out a meaningless typo when we all understood what he meant

>> No.5770662
File: 494 KB, 500x375, tumblr_llohqx123e1qzay1vo1_500[1].gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770662

>>5770401
nothing at all
nothing at all

>> No.5770660

>>5770650
If you cant see it with your eyes it doesnt exist silly middleschooler

>> No.5770664
File: 161 KB, 500x500, I will destroy your family.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770664

>>5770660
>implying air doesn't exist

>> No.5770666

>>5770664
clouds are a part of air, you can see them so you can see air

try again middleschooler

>> No.5770667
File: 207 KB, 585x511, 1368411913978.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5770667

>>5770659
I rather be autistic than mentally retarded

>> No.5770669

>>5770660

Liek cosmic rays?

>> No.5770674

>>5770669
silly child, when you look through a telescope with a h-alpha filter at the sun and you see a solar flare, you are seeing cosmic rays

dont be jelly that you dont understand science little child

>> No.5770678

>>5770354
By this retard assumption electrons don't exist either because we don't have clear pictures of them, only their effects.

>> No.5770686

>>5770678
You're fucking retarded... You can see electrons when electrical sparks are made or using a cathode ray aparatus

>> No.5770690

>>5770666
Clouds aren't air though, they're a side-effect of air being there, and if side-effects are all you require to show proof of existence then black holes must also exist. Either that or you've failed to prove air exists, which one is it?

>> No.5770691

>>5770674
Cosmic rays are very energetic particles, Hydrogen alpha is not high energy.

>> No.5770695

>>5770678

Observations don't just mean seeing the thing itself. You don't see air, but you know it's there because you can breath, because you can feel wind, because you can start fires.

>> No.5770696

>>5770691
you have to use an H-alpha filter to be able to see the details on the surface of the sun and see the solar flares which shoot a lot of cosmic rays into space

>>5770690
Clouds are visible air. If you see clouds, you are seeing air.

>> No.5770699

>>5770696
No, no, clouds are visible water vapor! I believe water vapor exists but you've still failed to convince me that air exists.

>> No.5770703

>>5770699
water vapor = one part of the soup we call air

>> No.5770706

>>5770254
>Light doesn't have mass but it does have momentum.

I don't know shit about physics beyond basic newtonian stuff, but how can you have momentum without mass?

>> No.5770710

>>5770706
light is a wave

>> No.5770711

>>5770699

>Fire
>You can breath
>Wind
>Spectral Composition
>Pressure

Ought to convince you

>> No.5770715

>>5770703
>one part
exactly, you can't tell me that air is water vapor and get away with it. Now show me that the other parts of that soup exist.

>> No.5770714

>>5770696
>the solar flares which shoot a lot of cosmic rays into space
That's not seeing cosmic rays, that's seeing something that generates low energy cosmic rays. That's analogous to saying that seeing a supernova is seeing a black hole because supernovae can create black holes.

>> No.5770741

My theory is that light is not a wave nor a particle, but a strand. Since light goes at the speed of light, it exceeds both space and time, henceforth appearing and existing at all points of its existence from point A to point B.

>> No.5770751

>>5770714
thats a stupid statement to say that seing a super nova is seeing a black hole.

when you see a solar flare, you know that cosmic rays are present from the beginning of when you see the solar flare because they are not created from the solar flare, only accompanying the solar flare. You dont see the black hole from the beginning of a hypernova and it is not present until after the main event is over

>> No.5770759

>>5770751
>thats a stupid statement to say that seing a super nova is seeing a black hole.

That's my point. Seeing a flare isn't seeing cosmic rays.

Cosmic rays are created in the flare. And no a supernova can continue on for a month long after the black hole has been created.

>> No.5770779

>>5770209
light has no mass bit has momentum ;)

This is how you can make "wings" which to propel you throughout space.

>> No.5770781

>>5770779
How does it have momentum when p=mv?

>> No.5770808

>>5770781
That's the non-relativistic equation for momentum, it doesn't hold for photons. read the thread.

>> No.5770818 [DELETED] 

>ITT

arm chair professors thinks they have an understanding of physics

>> No.5770820 [DELETED] 

fbbsbbbvbvz

>> No.5770921

>>5770759
fucking hell learn some astronomy
cosmic rays are constantly being shot out by the sun. its only when the sun creates a flare that a large amount of cosmic rays are being released into space. what the guy you're responding to said, was correct.

>> No.5770939

>>5770209
No one ever said that mass is required for something to be affected by a gravitational field

>> No.5771068

>>5770706
It has a duality, particle-wave. Thus, it has momentum.

>> No.5771073

>>5770699
NO! clouds=/= visible water vapour
clouds = liquid H2O- among other things- lacking enough mass to precipitate

>> No.5771128

>>5770921
No he's still wrong, you've misread. The Sun does create cosmic rays but so do flares, I never said otherwise. The point is seeing a flare isn't seeing cosmic rays.

>> No.5771134
File: 10 KB, 640x360, science35.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5771134

>>5771128
>he

>> No.5771137

>>5771134
It's 4chan, the guy I replied to also assumed it was a guy.

>> No.5771145

>>5771137
There are no guys on /sci/. Science is a girl thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g032MPrSjFA

>> No.5771153

>>5771145
there's no science on /sci/
>see thread

>> No.5771154

>>5771145
For the record: That ad was pulled before it began. An outside company created it and the European Commission killed it immediately.

>> No.5771159

>>5770741
maybe light is actually the fundamental string in string theory?

>> No.5771208

Why has no one brought up different between variant and invariant mass yet? If light were to have resting mass it would take an infinite amount of energy to maintain the speed that it does. The very fact that photons move at the speed they do means they can both have zero rest mass and the momentum to be manipulated by gravitational phenomenon.

>> No.5771214

>>5770239
That makes no sense to me.

Basically, it sounds like the age old "God is God because he is God!" Shit...

>> No.5771225

>>5771208

because this thread is all about taking popsci concepts and abusing them. these people are too far gone to talk about real science with

>> No.5771233

>>5771225
This thread is an obvious troll that was adequately answered by the first reply.

>> No.5771237

>>5771233

except that answer was wrong

>> No.5771259

>>5770921
Autism overload

>> No.5771404

Lol.
Modern physics is a collection of models, each of which is relevant to a certain situation. Of course they don't agree in general. It's like expecting traffic laws to make sense for pedestrians.