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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5761605 No.5761605[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Is machine consciousness possible?

>> No.5761612
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5761612

No.

>> No.5761613
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5761613

>>5761605
Sweden, yes.

>> No.5761616

>>5761605

It is not impossible.

>> No.5761643

>>5761605
inb4 qualia

>> No.5761660

>>5761643
What do you mean "inb4"? OP brought up the topic. Are you illiterate?

>> No.5761661

It is not a possibility, it is a nescessity.

>> No.5761733
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5761733

http://www.kurzweilai.net/ibm-simulates-530-billon-neurons-100-trillion-synapses-on-worlds-fastest-supercomputer

>> No.5761744
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5761744

http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/business_analytics/article/cognitive_computing.html

http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/35251.wss

>> No.5761745

>>5761733
Is Ray Kurzweil dead yet?

>> No.5761778

We haven't agreed on what consciousness is. Thus we can't have machine consciousness.

>> No.5761789

>>5761745
>Is Ray Kurzweil dead yet?
> Kurzweil dead yet?
> dead yet?
> yet?

You're implying Ray Kurzweil will ever die. You are mistaken.

>> No.5761811

the possibility of machine consciousness is not a matter of "machine" but a matter of what you consider "consciousness"

>> No.5761822

>>5761605
You are a biological machine
You have consciousness
Ergo yes

(Please don't reply to this post with some retarded claim about how you're not a machine)

>> No.5761827

>>5761822
I'm not a thing made by humans, therefore I'm not.

>> No.5761825

>>5761605
>machine
>consciousness

>living thing
>non-living thing
Are you even logic?

>> No.5761869

>>5761827
But you were designed by evolution, which is not a more magical process than human design. If blind evolution can make a conscious system, there is no reason why humans can't make one too.

>> No.5761872

>>5761825
>implying there can't be living machines

>> No.5761878
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5761878

>>5761822
Your second sentence is wrong. There are no magical souls.

>> No.5761880

>>5761869
Evolution is a physical process. There is no reason to assume that it produces untestable metaphysical magic.

>> No.5761886

>>5761878
OP, close your thread NOW
I mean well to you

>> No.5761882

>>5761878
>standard bullshit "I'm not conscious" devil's advocate

>> No.5761883
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5761883

>>5761872
>IMPLYING THERE CAN

>> No.5761925
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5761925

>>5761886
Are you the computer?

>> No.5761933

>>5761925
Go away, spammer.

>> No.5761941

>>5761878
No one is talking about magic, you idiot cretin. If you don't know what consciousness is, get a basic eduction. Start with learning to read. Fucktard.

>> No.5761947

>>5761941
Go ahead and name its testable effects. Without testable effects it doesn't exist and you belong on >>>/x/. I'm waiting.

>> No.5761955

>>5761947
Testable effects: 4chan

>> No.5761963

>>5761955
4chan is a website. The internet works on the basis of physics, not metaphysical magic.

>> No.5761972

>>5761963
Show me AI 4chan then

>> No.5761973

>>5761963
Not all metaphysics is magic.
When you decide whether to consider the electromagnetic field to be "real" is metaphysics, and an entirely separate question to whether Maxwell's Equations describe the motion of charged particles and EM waves (which we can all agree is true).

>> No.5761975

>>5761972
Why?

>>5761973
Electromagnetism is physics, not metaphysics.

>> No.5761977
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5761977

>>5761975
>not reading the post

>> No.5761976

yes it is possible because consciousness is as mechanical as logic. and just like we have programmed the logic we will be able to program the consciousness

>> No.5761980

>>5761977
Yeah, mathematical models aren't reality.

>> No.5761981

>>5761976
Please show me a testable effect of a soul/consciousness.

>>5761977
I read your post and responded.

>> No.5761984

>>5761980
Exactly. We can all agree that equations reproduce the results of experiments.

But what we then go on to say is "real" is an entirely different discussion, and if you just claim that one variant is "obviously true" without any philosophy-of-knowledge statements or reasoning at all then you're just being a faggot.

>> No.5761992

>>5761984
Are you denying math? What's your problem? Did you fail calculus?

>> No.5761995

>>5761981
No-one's trying to claim that "soul particles" exist. The /appearance/ of consciousness is something that can be verified very easily; plenty of tests of cognitive ability, intuition, and self-awareness exist.

You're just trying to halt discussion by strawmanning the desire to approach a discussion of what it is in reality that produces the effects we're talking about when we /use/ words like "consciousness".

>> No.5761997
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5761997

>>5761992
You've literally, and deliberately, missed the point.

>> No.5761998

>>5761827
>implying you were raised in a incubator and your parents did not fuck to 'make' you

Faggot.

>> No.5762007

>>5762004
>not reading the post

>plenty of tests of cognitive ability, intuition, and self-awareness exist

>> No.5762004

>>5761995
>can be verified very easily
Please name one observable effect of a soul/consciousness. Your metaphysical non-interacting spirit garbage belongs on >>>/x/. I will keep asking you to name the observable effects until you either name them or fuck off.

>> No.5762009

>>5762004
>>5762008
You're arguing against the position you want to, rather than the one that's actually being presented to you.

>> No.5762008

>>5761997
What point? "Hurr I failed math" is not a point.

>> No.5762011

>>5762007
That's a baseless assertion and I'm asking him to provide evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. "Hurrr ghost are real" is something that requires evidence.

>> No.5762014

>>5762009
>You are arguing agains a troll rather than a serious poster
Just keep calm and report

>> No.5762015

>>5762009
I am arguing against /x/ tier spiritualism shit. A soul/consciousness does not exist. From a scientific point of view phenomena without observable or testable effects are to be dismissed. Take that shit to >>>/x/

>> No.5762020

>>5762015
>I am arguing against /x/ tier spiritualism shit.
Which is not what what's in front of you.

>>5762014
Why is /sci/ so full of shitposting and trolling?

>> No.5762017

>>5762011
>I literally cannot google search
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test#References
IQ tests
Turing Tests
etc etc etc

All are valid tests for specific properties that are commonly grouped under the term "consciousness". Keep shitposting.

>> No.5762023

>>5762017
>mirror test
Pseudoscience. If you read the wiki link you posted, you would have seen the criticism. The test does not test what spiritualist want to think it tests. The observation of an animal's behaviour does not justify metaphysical or spiritual conclusions. Pure hogwash.

>IQ tests
Are testing intelligence, a property of the brain. This has nothing to do with magical souls.

>Turing Tests
Are testing verbal expressiveness of a computer program. Again this has nothing to do with magical souls.

Your straw persons are terrible and you suck at trolling.

>> No.5762026

>>5762023
>If I keep claiming that the person I'm arguing with is talking about "magic", and don't listen to what they're saying, that makes it true!!!

>> No.5762032

>>5762020
>Which is not what what's in front of you.
Yes, it is. Some posters ITT are claiming to have a soul/consciousness. As a scientist I have to ask them for evidence. So far instead of naming testable effects they only replied with infantile insults.

>>5762026
I addressed and refuted every single one of his fallacies.

>> No.5762036

>>5762020
Small board and lots of autists with free time. A single troll can shit up the entire board easily
This is not like /b/ where everything gets swept off the board in hours, here trolls can keep thread alive for weeks on end with a single bumb a day.

That and total lack of moderation of course.

>> No.5762035

>>5762023
What is a magical soul in this case

I know, for instance, that at some point, I am a 'thinking being' that is aware that it is serpate, yet part of the reality around it, and can plan, make decisions, and work proactively to influence my surroundings based on both decided, and intuitive desires. I thinker, therefore, I am.

Could a being made of non-organic components, a partially designed machine, do this as well? I don't see why not.

>> No.5762042

>>5762032
>Yes, it is. Some posters ITT are claiming to have a soul/consciousness. As a scientist I have to ask them for evidence.

typical new atheist

repeating stuff he doesnt understand

>> No.5762046

>>5762042
>repeating stuff he doesnt understand

typical hypocritical unthinking theist moron.

>> No.5762049
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5762049

>>5762042
>>5762046
>>>/lit/

>> No.5762048

>>5762035
>I think, therefore, I am.
The premise is not verifiable and the implication is meaningless. You are because you are objectively observable. Only things with observable effects exist.

>>5762042
Take your religion troll to >>>/pol/

>> No.5762062

>>5762048
soul is a religious term you retarded atheist, and please dont you dare bring science into it.

consciousness is a well researched scientific phenomena especially in the field of psychology.

now take your silly atheist nonsense somewhere else. strawman after strawman attempts give us a break.

>> No.5762065

>>5762062
If it is "well researched", you shouldn't have a problem defining it in terms of its observable effects. Please name them. I'm waiting.

Apparently you don't know shit about psychology. You are mistaking spiritualist pseudoscience for psychology. You are gullible and uneducated.

>> No.5762067

>>5762062
>soul is a religious term you retarded atheist, and please dont you dare bring science into it.
Then don't bring your silly notion of a "soul" onto /sci/

>consciousness is a well researched scientific phenomena especially in the field of psychology.
>well researched scientific phenomena
How ignorant are you exactly?

>> No.5762068
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5762068

>> No.5762069

>>5761878

You are mistaken.
Go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

>> No.5762074

>>5762069
>You are mistaken.
You sure proved him wrong.

>> No.5762076

>>5762075
No, it isn't. Only your illiteracy is self-evident.

>> No.5762075

>>5762074

Proof is not necessary.
It is self-evident.

>> No.5762078

>>5762076

Your statement is self-contradictory.

Learn to Rhetoric.

>> No.5762079

>>5762078
no u

>> No.5762081

>>5762075
It is also "self-evident" that the sun is a small bright ball that orbits the Earth.

>> No.5762083
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5762083

>> No.5762085

>>5762081
uhmmmm ... yes?

We can see it.