/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.5737942]

Daily reminder that we all die right before we take the leap to type I Civilization.
We wont be able to reach that point as long as we live based on a monetary system and divide ourself. earthling is earthling.
Would a worldwide resourcebased economy take us further in progress?? will this ever happen?
Yet I do not support the venus project because I think its way to utopian but the system sounds nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag [Embed] [Embed]
dat subtitles

>inb4 communist, zeitgeistfag,NWO...
>inb4 OP cant inb4

also sorry for bad english

[Anonymous No.5737954]

The problem is that religion thing, and its role in the lives of those people responsible for oil enrichment.

[Anonymous No.5737973]

>>5737954
well such a system needs a break down first I think.
so nations have to look for other ways to govern their citizens.
religious problems are money problems.

[Anonymous No.5738226]

i wonder whehn we go out to explore the galaxy and do not find any other old civilisations.
when it becomes clear that we are the first.
we are the ones who will be told about in stories and myths as the first, the oldest, the wisest, the ones who set the seeds for other.

[Anonymous No.5738328]

>>5738226

It's extremely improbable that we're set to be first. 100s of millions of planets in stellar habitable zones, over the last 5 billion years. Note well that you only need like a 300-450 million year span to develop a biosphere on each of those. Get real, guy. There's a reason why the sky is silent of intelligent signs: Life kills itself off when it gets nukes. Kills itself off, or grounds itself permanently on its homeworld.

[Anonymous No.5738332]

>design mass producible fusion reactor
>solve energy crisis
>????
>profit

[Anonymous No.5738338]

>>5737954
>The problem is that religion thing
You are a fucking retarded child and don't know anything about the real world.

[Anonymous No.5738378]

>>5738328
Its funny how people who claim LOL SILENT SKY dont realize that Star Trek isn't real and radio emissions are indistinguishable from background noise at 1 light year.

Pic EXTREMELY related

[Anonymous No.5738388]

>>5738332
this

[Anonymous No.5738404]

>>5738378

I trap stupid motherfuckers like you all the time with my succinct statements. Dude, it's more than the silence of the sky. The sky's VISIBLE elements also contain no evidence of intelligent manipulations. You're clearly far too dumb to realize that ANY civilization that expands off its homeworld, automatically must run into energy problems in space around its star. So it MUST create a Dyson Structure. It may take 1000 years at high engineering action, or 1 million years... those are eyeblinks in cosmology. The point is that if there are civlizations out there, the sky would be peppered with Dyson Structures that occlude their home stars in very obvious ways.

And if there were galactic civilizations, we'd still be noticing all sorts of interesting patterns crop up in the background noise. The sheer DENSITY of their emissions would produce aberrations that our SETI efforts would notice within a few days, if not hours.

And yet: SETI shows NOTHING. For decades upon decades of all manner of signal searches, we have ZILCH.

So there's no other rational conclusion: You can't HIDE an emitting, technological civilization. So they must not be out there. Tech civs must be confined to their homeworlds like we are, and we're about to lose our edge due to Petroleum Starvation... probably just like happened to all of of the other tech civs. Intelligent lifeforms are DUMB.

[Anonymous No.5738415]

Galactic or even multi-system empires are impossible without FTL. The best we can do is send out colony ships and set up small populations to make independent worlds. Why we aren't doing that now is beyond me.

[Anonymous No.5738442]

Who. Cares.

Nothing matters but the present.

[Anonymous No.5738456]

>>5738404
>I trap stupid motherfuckers like you all the time with my succinct statements. Dude, it's more than the silence of the sky. The sky's VISIBLE elements also contain no evidence of intelligent manipulations. You're clearly far too dumb to realize that ANY civilization that expands off its homeworld, automatically must run into energy problems in space around its star. So it MUST create a Dyson Structure. It may take 1000 years at high engineering action, or 1 million years... those are eyeblinks in cosmology. The point is that if there are civlizations out there, the sky would be peppered with Dyson Structures that occlude their home stars in very obvious ways.

Dyson structures are extremely unlikely and are Star Trek level retarded. We are technically capable of interstellar travel and we dont have Dyson structures. We have trouble find earth sized planets let alone space stations.

>
And if there were galactic civilizations, we'd still be noticing all sorts of interesting patterns crop up in the background noise. The sheer DENSITY of their emissions would produce aberrations that our SETI efforts would notice within a few days, if not hours.

Get out of your fantasy land. The idea of a Galactic civilization is retarded due to the speed of light and such being what it is. Interstellar communication would be done with high power inferred lasers which you would never pick up accidentally and are still bound by the speed of light.

>And yet: SETI shows NOTHING. For decades upon decades of all manner of signal searches, we have ZILCH.

SETI shows nothing because what SETI is looking for is impossible.

>"incoherent babbling"

durp hurp HURRR ignoring what i said before about radio signals being nothing but indistinguishable static in under a little over a light year.

[Anonymous No.5738464]

>>5737942
I'd personally like a better apology for that.

[Anonymous No.5738469]

>>5738415

We might have to clarify what "galactic empire" means. The empire could exist in cultural form only, not in political form. If stellar colonizing jumps consume 1 lifetime per, there's obviously no political fabric. Other lifeforms can be longer lived or make more investment in approaching lightspeed; making a 10LY trip even at half of lightspeed avg speed is 20 years. For a lifeform that lives for 500 years, that's like taking a 4-yr trip for one of us. Do-able.

[Anonymous No.5738471]

i think its bullshit

[Anonymous No.5738484]

>>5738456
>due to the speed of light and such being what it is.
Potato

[Anonymous No.5738497]

>>5738332
You are either deluded or just fucking retarded if you think cold fusion is going to solve shit. First only big companies can invest couple of billions into a fusion plant. Of course they have to pay it off, so you look at more-less same prices of electricity. When it pays off in 10 or so years, they will either keep the prices the same, or by market competition reduce prices by cutting off power plants (solar, coal, whatever) and that means tens of thousands of unemployed people for half a cent per kwh reduction. Cheaper electricity means people spend more power, so you need a better infrastructure, which again costs money. You may call this muh corporations hippie bullshit but it's simple - they want money. There won't be anything near dirt cheap electricity in the next 100 years or so, assuming we get fusion in 10-15 years (which is as probable as me getting the lottery on Friday). It simply isn't economically viable.

[Anonymous No.5738504]

(continued)

>>5738456
> Interstellar communication would be done with high power inferred lasers which you would never pick up accidentally and are still bound by the speed of light.

Lasers SPREAD, retard. The criss-crossing of these lasers would be picked up behind their recipients.

> SETI shows nothing because what SETI is looking for is impossible.

You just went full retard. SETI is looking for intelligent signals in likely spectra.

[Anonymous No.5738501]

>>5738456
> Dyson structures are extremely unlikely

They are NECESSARY for continuing to expand as a technology-using civilization into your own solar system.

It's PHYSICS, retard. The ultimate source of reliable energy in any solar system is the central star or stars. It's what you NEED to capture in order to sustain your civilization for millennia, when all the fossil fuels are gone and the nuclear fuels just get too hard to find.

> We are technically capable of interstellar travel and we dont have Dyson structures.

We're doing NEITHER. Dumbass. We're as invisible 1000 LY away as is any other planet-bound civilization. That was EVER my point: Obviously there are no civilizations off their homeworlds, since in the cosomological eyeblink they'd NEED to construct a Dyson Structure to sustain their energy-hungry technology and population.

[Anonymous No.5738511]

>>5738484
ad hominem attack doesn't counter claims

[Anonymous No.5738517]

>>5738497

The general public was lied to, when told nuclear-generated electricity would be "too cheap to meter". That's never the case. Energy is always priced. So you're really quite right: Energy is always supplied at a price, and if there's no price high enough to supply it, it won't be supplied. Human excess populations can die off. That's really our only future: Gigadeaths as a means of adapting to the collapse of petroleum supply.

[Anonymous No.5738522]

>>5738511
Forgive my crude retort. I just don't see how the claim of LightSpeed being unattainable correlates to intergallactic empires being impossible. Worm holes/intergalatic resource gathering makes it possible and economically viable.

[Anonymous No.5738541]

>>5738501
Hydrogen is nuclear fuel dumbass. As you can see there is no shortage of it. Most Dyson structures are gravitationally unstable.

Actually going to the stars and being capable of it are two different things. We where technically capable for over 30 years now. We just dont have a reason to justify the cost.
Also we are invisible from Proxima Centauri. We didn't even know the system had a planet until less then a year ago and it is out closest neighbor. We have trouble finding earth sized planets from less then 5 light years away. What makes you think we can find one 1000ly away?

Space is BIG. I know this seems to be hard for you to grasp but picking up a stray signal isn't like picking up the radio station from the town over. SETI is looking for DETECTABLE signals in likely spectra. The signals that we would actually be able to pick up are static by the time they reach us.

[Anonymous No.5738540]

>>5738501
>They are NECESSARY for continuing to expand as a technology-using civilization into your own solar system.

Overemphasis on some words isn't making your point any more correct. If there are other sources of energy, you don't need to make a dyson sphere (which is quite ridiculous, engineering-wise).
>nuclear fuels just get too hard to find
lol

You have a silly idea in your head. You are assuming we can actually detect a Dyson sphere. Additionally you can't seem into speed of light. Niggaz could have built a type 3 kardashev civilization 5 billions of years ago and if it was sufficiently far away you'd see jack shit for the next 5 billion years. Do you need me to draw the scale of the universe?

[Anonymous No.5738548]

The main problem is a cultural one. Despite the practical difficulties in eliminating a monetary system, today's society is so driven by materialism that it will take some serious shifts in public opinion to even begin to change.

Also, in a world of limited resources, we will always need some type of currency. Unfortunately we've hit a point where we could likely escape the chains of limited resources, but the interests of corporations wouldn't allow for that. If we ever discover free energy, you'd better believe it will be sold as a service by one of the big energy corporations (or all of them). It will be viewed as a luxury instead of a basic right.

[Anonymous No.5738552]

>>5738522
Good luck making trade agreements from 100 light years away. The fuel required to transport something that disance could never justify the cost of trading materials. The energies required to keep a wormhole open would also disintegrate anything going into said wormhole which would make them a rather unpleasant mode of transportation.

[Anonymous No.5738559]

So what alternatives to capitalism do we have?
Communism obviously doesn't work with humans.

[Anonymous No.5738567]

>>5738497
You're the deluded sperglord. Missed the phrase "mass producible" in my post didn't ya?

[Anonymous No.5738570]

>>5738559
Socialism combined with a ton of cultural reinforcement and shaming of those who act selfishly.

[Anonymous No.5738573]

>>5738540

Firstly, I told you specifically to stop going full retard. That's the problem with retards: They don't understand. You don't understand. You don't even understand that you don't understand.

> You are assuming we can actually detect a Dyson sphere.

You clearly don't understand that a Dyson Structure would occlude its parent star. THAT'S IT'S PURPOSE, to catch sunlight. OBVIOUSLY this will affect the starlight emitted. And such a signature would be quite artificial. We'd have been writing 1000s of papers about these things by now, they'd be so obvious to astronomers.

Stop posting here. /sci/ needs not a Captcha but a fucking IQ TEST to keep retards like you AWAY.

[Anonymous No.5738582]

>>5738541

Sure, hydrogen is a nuclear fuel... IN A STAR. Which is ALREADY BURNING in the center of each solar system.

A Dyson S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E is the fucking term I keep using to FOCUS YOUR INSIPID ATTENTION that spheres are NOT the optimal solution. The maximum structure would be a Dyson Cloud, held together by whatever engineering and economics the parent race would subscribe to.

English: How does it work? YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.

[Anonymous No.5738589]

>>5738559

The alternative to communism and socialism and capitalism is clear: Genocide. When there are just too many Humans trying to get their nuts like squirrels, the only solution chosen by leaders is WAR WAR WAR. War and starvation. And it'll be dead easy to get that done this time around, since so many billions will be dependent on petroleum-fueled agriculture that cutting off the oil will kill them off nicely.

So, the answer is GIGACIDE. Murderism. Starvism. Give it a cute name if you like.

[Anonymous No.5738602]

>>5738567
Shit nigga, nuclear reactors are mass produced, doesn't mean I have one in my backyard. Doesn't change my point a single bit - infrastructure will have to be rebuilt from scratch, but it of course won't be, because of the cost, so it'll just get upgraded and upgraded and shit, there's only so much copper in the world.
And don't get me started on nuclear batteries, I'll shove my foot up your ass.

[Anonymous No.5738611]

>>5738573
Am I talking to a master ruseman? I'm having severe doubts over here.

Dyson shell is completely undetectable. Other variants (dyson ring, bubble etc) aren't as energy efficient, so why build them.

Again, you really can't into speed of light.

[Anonymous No.5738619]

>WRITTEN BY Jacque Fresco

Sorry its impossible to even begin to take this seriously

[Anonymous No.5738621]

>>5738582
>IN A STAR
>hurr durr how do I into interstellar spaec

Also, what the fuck is a dyson cloud nigga, do you have a single reputable analysis of whatever the fuck it is (dyson bubble?).

>spheres are NOT the optimal solution
Sure it is, captures 100% of the light. If you are assuming you have a civilization that can build a megastructure with mass greater than all our planets combined, I think they can overcome some engineering problems you might think of.

And shit, stop reading so much Michio Kaku.

[valjean !!4SOyPF0IuOv No.5738626]

>>5738589
>GIGACIDE
thanks, I've been trying to think of a new name for my band for weeks!

[Anonymous No.5738639]

>>5738589
>>5738626
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sEI1AUFJKw

[Anonymous No.5738661]

>>5738602
>[fission] reactors
Are totally different from fusion reactors, given you have a smaller or no steam turbine and generator at all.
>infrastructure will have to be rebuilt from scratch
Transmission lines? No.
>but it of course won't be, because of the cost, so it'll just get upgraded and upgraded and shit, there's only so much copper in the world.
You're fucking insane.
>And don't get me started on nuclear batteries, I'll shove my foot up your ass.
What's this got to do with anything?

[Anonymous No.5738690]

>>5738661
>Are totally different from fusion reactors
>will possibly be
Fixed that for you.

>Transmission lines? No.
Yep. Increased spending of electricity means that current home lines won't be enough. Let's say 5kW per household will increase to (pure guess) 15kW and you need lines that can support that much electricity. That's triple increase, times a 100k households for a 500k people city, you get it. Even if there was a reactor in every city (security and logistics nightmare), eventually another way of distribution will have to be found.

[valjean !!4SOyPF0IuOv No.5738701]

>>5738639
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sEI1AUFJKw
This was my least favorite period in 4chan history.

[Anonymous No.5738716]

>>5738690
In the near future, sure. But we can wean ourselves off transmission electricity with fusion reactors for every household or building or electric car. Haven't you heard of magnetized target fusion? It's the legitimate way to produce domestic fusion reactors.

[Anonymous No.5738741]

>>5738716
>domestic reactors
Bad idea man, too large abuse potential.

[Anonymous No.5738744]

>>5738741
What abuse?

[Anonymous No.5738753]

>>5738716

Oho, it's legit, eh? Then where are these fusion reactors operating, contributing to the power grid?

The chirping of the crickets tells me all I need to know. It's bullshit.

[Anonymous No.5738766]

>>5738621

If you can't figure out that gravitational instabilities mean a Dyson Cloud is more practical, then you're beyond hope.

Dyson STRUCTURE means variations and combinations of Spheres, Rings, Clouds, Cylinders, etc. Whatever seems practical to implement using extant material. But the end result is a major occlusion of outgoing starlight, and that's very detectable. And yet: NONE HAVE BEEN DETECTED. And that's not for a lack of trying.

/sci/ goes full retard when exposed to the sad truth of the Drake Equation. Aliens: /sci/'s RELIGION.

[Anonymous No.5738771]

>>5738753
Don't fool yourself so quick -- there's active research behind it and the the available designs are more diverse than tokamaks or ICF.
http://wsx.lanl.gov/mtf.html

[Anonymous No.5738784]

>>5738559
eusocialism or forced hivemind.

Basically unite(conqueror) humanity and force everyone to do things for the good of humanity or execute/exile them or put the brainchips into people after all. It's the only way humans will ever work together without caring about money and pride.

[Anonymous No.5738787]

>>5738766
Kaku is that u bbygurl, can I have an autogram <3

[Anonymous No.5738789]

>>5737942
>inb4 communist

hey guys
i have an idea
let's distribute resources to everyone fairly based on their needs
this is totally not communism and it will totally not immediately fail and bring about totalitarianism

[Anonymous No.5738801]

>>5738552
>disentigration
So how do you think teleportation's going to work, champ?
Also, time is in fact a factor of economics as well.

[Anonymous No.5739040]

>>5738766
why would you need a Dyson structure? There are much easier ways to get energy.

[Anonymous No.5739247]

>>5738766
>>5738582
>Capitalizes every other word
>English: How does it work? YOU JUST DON'T KNOW
>Can't differentiate between "its" and "it's"

[Anonymous No.5739341]

>>5738559
>So what alternatives to capitalism do we have?
Every human being able to make any material from the molecular or atomic scale, thanks to self-replicating nanobots or "foglets".
That way nobody needs to trade anything to anyone, because you can just have it made by your trusty nanobots.
It doesn't really matter how much time it takes us to achieve this, it will happen. When it does, we won't need cargo ships limited to the speed of light going from one planet to another, as every colony is self sustainable. We'd just need a FTL communication method so we move together, as a species, and every human is attached to the same ruling, principles and society that all the other human worlds.

[Anonymous No.5739351]

>>5739341
You do realize that FTL communication is impossible, right?

[Anonymous No.5739353]

This thread was a piece of crap.

My first visit to /sci/ ever. Just as retarded as /k/.

[Anonymous No.5739360]

>>5739351
nothing is impossibru. You just have to believe!

[Anonymous No.5739364]

>>5739353
Of course it's crap, it's a communism thread on a non-politics board.

[Anonymous No.5739391]

>>5737942
>Earthling is Earthling

We'll only become Earthlings in each others eyes only once someone else, who is NOT an Earthling appears. We're tribal by instinct, so at best we'll always break up into the second largest unit of people available. Right now, that would be by type of religion.

We also need something better than rockets. Type I civilization doesn't need to happen for us to move on.

[Anonymous No.5739400]

>>5739351

I dunno mang, some of the quantum mechanics I saw in my SciFy and played on my MassEffect2 say otherwise.

[Anonymous No.5739430]

>>5737942
>We wont be able to reach that point as long as we live based on a monetary system
I disagree. A capitalist interplanetary civilization could achieve Type I, no problem.

[Anonymous No.5739465]

>>5737942
>venus project

[Anonymous No.5739576]

>>5738701
Yeah that was terrible.