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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5722380 No.5722380[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

This nasty, primitive and unconscious rat has just traversed a graph with a DPS algorithm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth-first_search

what have you done today?

>> No.5722402

John Carmack did this once; he called it Quake.

>> No.5722460

>>5722380
exercises and learned, so pretty much the same thing... but i imagine I enjoyed myself more than the unconscious rat

>> No.5722462

>>5722380

rats are conscious, when they are awake

>> No.5722465

>>5722462
rats act on instinct, they are not conscious

>> No.5722466

>>5722465

you act on instinct
I didn't say there were rocket scientists
they are aware i.e. conscious

>> No.5722473

>>5722466
not true at all, you are an idiot

>> No.5722474

>>5722466
I don't think you understand the argument here.

>> No.5722478

>>5722473

Horseshit.
There is no qualitative difference between you and a rat.

>> No.5722479

>>5722474

I don't think you think.

>> No.5722480

>>5722478
>qualitative
stop using words you don't understand

>> No.5722481

>>5722478
>There is no qualitative difference between you and a rat.
haha speak for yourself mate

>> No.5722482

>>5722480

Qualitative -quantitative distinction too hard for you, Cleverbot?

>> No.5722485

>>5722481

Oh, do you have a magic soul?

>> No.5722487

>>5722466
oh brother

>> No.5722489

>>5722485
Oi Boris

>> No.5722488

>>5722487

Stan, is that you?

>> No.5722516

I dont get it.

The rat surely would use some algorithm to traverse the maze. Why is it significant that it used the same search pattern as depth-first?

>> No.5722523

>>5722380
>cs bio
>/sci/

pick 1

>> No.5722529

>>5722462
Consciousness is pseudo-science, please take this conversation to >>>/x/

>> No.5722531

>>5722516
It's just idiots. It's two things.

1) People who think animals lack souls and only function on reflex, like machines.

2) People who think behavior like this requires well thought out foresight and planning.

Seeing a rat do something they would normally expect to be rational thought fucks up people who believe either of these bullshit 1700s beliefs.

Don't listen to either. Psychology that believes in souls or "non-physical indeterminate behavior" are pseudoscience. Plants and animals are able to hone in on the best method to do something by using shit like game theory (this is all studied in neuroeconomics and other fields).

>> No.5722530

>>5722529

A sphincter says what?

>> No.5722537

Ignoring the two arguing, how do animals think? Or do they think at all?

>> No.5722547

>>5722537

I saw a raven sorting and stacking crackers in Jackson's Hole. He clearly had a plan.

>> No.5722549

>>5722530

It doesn't say anything; it's a sphincter.

>> No.5722552

>>5722537
The same way humans do. Through neurons acting as deterministic processes coupled with probabilistic processes. Essentially it boils down to game theory and economics (science of decisions). The neural structure finds the equilibria of systems by assessing the costs, benefits, utility, etc.. associated with an action. This is all probabilistic since depending on the choice the creature makes the outside world may respond differently.

There are experiments that show this behavior honing in to predicted percentages. Group of ducks in a lake, each professor has balls of bread with one having his at so many grams and the other at a different number of grams. The idea is that it benefits the ducks most to spend some percentage of time on one side and some percentage of time on the other side. In said experiments the ducks divide up into that predicted percentage very quickly with one portion on one side and another on the other side, furthermore each duck spends the predicted percentage of their time on either side as well.

Other experiments include a shirk or work experiment done with humans on computers as well as with chimps with food. The game theory models are the same for both scenarios and in both the humans and chimps hone in on the expected behavior just as quickly. Altering the game alters the probability and they hone in on that as well.

I would write up more detailed explanations of these experiments but I'm afraid I must leave soon.

>> No.5722550

>>5722531
>neuroeconomics
>real science
pick 1

>> No.5722557

>>5722550
You construct models, propose hypothesis, run experiments on individual neurons in controlled environments, and find evidence to support your hypothesis. It's far more rigorous than the rest of psychology. It also does away with the garbage about a soul or non-physical in-deterministic process.

>> No.5722570

>>5722537
Consider the fact that around half(!) of our cortex is devoted to processing images. We use more bain mass than a rat even in his skull to percieving images. Many animals with very poorly developed brains can only see splotches of color and can only react to movement.

Visual processing is one of the biggest obstacles in the way of artificial intelligence. The ability to construct spatial perception and navigate the environment is one of the most important tasks for the animal brain. Some animals have a the vast majority of of brain devoted to perceiving images, and just react like a state machine.

>> No.5722574

>>5722570
Visual processing is the reason why animals act like a state machine, so wouldn't this mean the same for us?

>> No.5722596

>>5722574
Sure, but more complicated states.

Also we have this consciousness thing everyone keeps talking about.

>> No.5722599

>>5722596
No, we don't. Please keep that nonsense in >>>/x/.

>> No.5722602

>>5722599

I have digestiveness.

>> No.5722623

>>5722599
Can yuo explain why you object to that term, you just sound like a fedora neckbeard virgin and no one even knows what you're talking about

>> No.5722622

>>5722596

Shirley you meant conscientiousness.

>> No.5722630

>>5722531
>People who think animals lack souls
>bullshit 1700s beliefs

>> No.5722632

>>5722599
>>5722599
lol what are you talking about

>> No.5722635

>>5722630

>people who think people have souls
>negative infinity to infinity

>> No.5722639

>>5722635

people who use the word spirits to mean alcohol

always

>> No.5722654
File: 28 KB, 1064x555, qualia.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5722654

>>5722623
There was an excessive amount of qualia\consciousness trolling a a while back. I still have some of the images that were being thrown around saved.

>> No.5722663

>>5722380
I would like to see this done with a closed top and sealant to prevent air leakage over the top of the maze, I wonder if the mouse would reach the end faster?

>> No.5722670

>>5722380
DPS? You don't mean DFS?


Depth P***** search
Depth first search.

>> No.5722671

>>5722670

Double Penetration Sex.

>> No.5722690

>>5722462
>>5722465
>>5722466
>>5722473
>>5722474
>>5722478
>>5722479
>>5722480
>>5722481
Exactly what genus of rodent are we speaking of? Black rat? Field rat? Brown rat? Not all rats are equal.

>> No.5722718

>>5722380
Or maybe it was just the only rat out of thousands to happen to go through the maze in that way