/sci/ - Science & Math

[OP No.5659134]

Which mental diseases can be overcome by sheer willpower? I personally had an extremely severe case of OCD that made me unable to function in society. Over the course of several years, I was able to overcome it, though I still get the urges sometimes.

Could something as severe as schizophrenia be defeated, or at least managed by medication? Severe depression?

[Anonymous No.5659149]

Aspergers

Aspies are just lying to themselves so they don't need to learn how to socialize.

[Anonymous No.5659158]

Definitely Aspergers, OCD, ADD, ADHD, addiction, Social Anxiety, Depression.

[Anonymous No.5659163]

>>5659158

The depression is both a yes and no. It could be the kind where the person just needs cognitive therapy or self help.

Or it could be the kind where if he doesn't get anti-depressants to fix his fucked up chemistry he will literally die (by his own hand usually)

[Anonymous No.5659169]

>>5659158

And on the attention disorders, if it's a legitimate medical case then no you can't willpower it away. However it's usually a case of shitty parenting and a therapist that hands out amphetamines like candy

[OP No.5659174]

>>5659158
This list makes a lot of sense to me. I also believe that a lot of phobias can be resolved. I'm very curious about the human limit for self-treatment. Not necessarily to cure the disease completely, but to help yourself to the point where you can function in society and are reasonably satisfied with your life.

[OP No.5659181]

I wonder if someone with schizophrenia could convince themselves that the illusions they see or hear, or even feel as in the case of paranoia are just illusions. I don't have schizophrenia (and hope I never do), but I do have hypnagogic hallucinations. I'd like to calm myself down when I have them, but it's very difficult to do.

[Anonymous No.5659205]

>>5659181

If that was the case schizophrenia wouldn't be much of a problem. Check out the MRI's of schizo patients.

[OP No.5659248]

>>5659205
The MRI scans of people with real OCD are also different, but you can overcome the "illusion" that something will happen if you don't act on an impulse by willpower. I'd imagine an MRI of my brain would look a bit different now, but I'm only guessing. The MRI's for people with schizophrenia are also different when compared to normal brains. I don't have the knowledge to understand the significance of the differences unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.5659250]

The human brain is the most unique and complex thing in the Known Universe. It is capable of changing itself and the organism to which it is attached through adaptation and education. In theory, the brain can learn to do anything if given enough time and energy. Therefore, any and all flaws with the human self—whether they be psychological, neurological, physiological, or otherwise—can be overcome by "sheer willpower," as you call it. The problem, however, is that doing so requires time and effort and some of the more difficult illnesses, such as schizophrenia or paralysis, require so much of it that we die before it can be accomplished. For example, what if it takes 250 years for an individual to successfully rewire his or her brain through education and rehabilitation in order to eliminate that person's schizophrenia?

While schizophrenia (and many other ailments) are neurological or physiologically-based, the human brain can overcome these obstacles (in theory) if given enough time and energy to do so. Most people simply do not have enough of either in order to complete the process. Because of that, one could simply say that no, some illnesses cannot be overcome; however, that is due to our short lifespan and the limits we know our brain can meet. If neither of the aforementioned were the case, I would not be surprised if anything, from paralysis and schizophrenia to genetic flaws and adaptations, could be achieved within a single (but extraordinarily long) human lifetime.

>>CONTINUED<<

[Anonymous No.5659253]

... Mental disease? Do you mean mental illness or mental disorder because I assure you, they are two extremely different things. Because you used OCD in your example, I will presume you meant mental disorder. Yes, a lot of mental disorders can be overcome, they are by no means permanent and they are just inside your head, they are not a disease by any means. Mental illnesses however are different, they can be controlled to an extent but most really don't go away. Dissociative Identity Disorder for example, is a mental disorder rather than a mental illness. Through therapy and such, it can be overcome and the other personalities can be dealt with. Schizophrenia however is a mental illness and a psychotic one at that, it can be controlled through medication and you can get used to it through time or therapy but it never truly goes away.

[Anonymous No.5659254]

>>5659250
In other words, many mental disorders cannot be overcome through "sheer willpower," but only because we don't have the time or energy to do so. Some mental disorders can be eliminated through therapy and rehabilitation, but many of the neurologically-based ones (i.e., schizophrenia, OCD, Tourette's, Asperger's, autism, etc.) cannot. While they cannot be eliminated entirely, it is possible to suppress, manage, or channel them as a means of improving your life. For example, major depression and high anxiety—both of which are thought to be genetic or epigenetic to at least some degree—can be managed through rehabilitation, therapy, and medication. Similarly, schizophrenia and autism spectrum disorders can be managed through like means.

Moreover, these disorders undoubtedly provide some positive benefits, however minute or negligible, which can be exacerbated and channeled in order to improve your life. For example, schizophrenia can produce higher quantities of creative and abstract thinking; high-functioning autism can help with analytic faculties and data absorption; and obsessive-compulsive disorder can provide habits meticulous attention to detail, orderliness, and a higher standard of work ethics.

>>CONTINUED<<

[Anonymous No.5659256]

>>5659254
Mental disorders are only considered as such because they are deviations from the norm or what is considered to be most acceptable and thus labeled accordingly. While it is true that schizophrenia causes cognitive dissonance and poor thought processing, while autism is the hindrance of psychological and neurological development, these mental deviations are considered deficiencies and illnesses because they contradict society's expectations of convention and violate the standards humanity has identified and recognized as appropriate. In no way am I implying that mental disorders are not really disorders, only that the reason why we as a species consider them as such is because of our perception and definition of the norm.

P.S. – This is coming from someone who suffers from: Asperger's Syndrome (AS); Tourette's Syndrome (TS), Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD); Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD); Major Depressive Disorder (MDD), a.k.a. clinical depression; Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD); Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD); and Trichotillomania.

[Anonymous No.5659260]

>>5659181
... Most people with schizophrenia don't lose touch with reality and they can know that they have schizophrenia no problem, they can even learn to tell the difference between the illusions and real life. Whether they know they know they have schizophrenia is of little consequence, it doesn't just go away.

[OP No.5659278]

>>5659256
Thanks for sharing your interesting thoughts. I enjoyed reading your posts.

[OP No.5659285]

>>5659260
So I suppose that means they will continue to suffer regardless of their knowledge.

[Anonymous No.5659288]

>>5659253
From how I perceive it, I generally define them as follows:

>Mental Disorder – A psychological disorder of thought or emotion, often expressed through behavioral problems and altered thought processes and symptoms of distress or disability.
>Mental Illness – A neurological disorder of the brain that is expressed through various mental disorders and frequently severe enough to require psychiatric intervention
>Mental Disease – A contagious illness caused by a pathogen (or a negative conception or belief that acts like such) that can be expressed through mental illness and disorder, as well as through other physiological means.

Then again, most dictionaries define them as generally synonymous, so I may just be arbitrarily parsing words.

>>5659285
Sure thing. Do you have any comments or questions regarding my posts? Any opinions or criticisms you may have? I'm more than willing to read and consider them.

[Anonymous No.5659291]

>>5659285
They will have to endure the schizophrenia for their entire life, yes. Like the other person said, maybe it could be rewired through time but that's impossible to test and so we must either endure it or wait until a way is discovered to get rid of it. A person with schizophrenia will get used to it through time, therapy and medication, it wont be as if they're depressed all the time because they have schizophrenia, they're people with lives to live.

[Anonymous No.5659296]

>>5659288
I don't believe mental disease is an official term, rather, I'm fairly certain it is an incorrect way of saying mental illness. They are synonyms but hey, who cares.

[Anonymous No.5659303]

>>5659288
>most dictionaries

When you get into college you'll learn the different categorizations of mental aberration in Psych 101, with more detailed treatment in Abnormal, if you're so inclined.

Not that I'd recommend it; psychology is mostly witch-doctor nonsense. Harmful chemical alterations in brain function can and should be treated pharmacologically, but Big Pharma can't get rich on antipsychotics alone. Thus the flourishing of this "disorder" nonsense that has no basis in neurology.

[OP No.5659304]

>>5659288
The time element was interesting and something I had not considered earlier. I think it's a logical point and a limitation in self-treatment. I read a story awhile back regarding paralysis that you might have heard about yourself. Through intense focus, there a few people who were able to regain some mobility after paralysis. Apparently some nerve cells in the spine were circumvented to complete the circuit in one person. In another, they were able to move the arm and fingers a bit eve though they were not able to feel what they were doing. I'm not sure how much influence their intense focus had, if any, on their nerve cells but they were interesting stories nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.5659308]

>>5659303
Hah! Most of my friends who study physics and chemistry think psychology is a waste of time, they've even made up a few jokes and skits because I enjoy it so much. Reminds me of the time my old physics teacher made a joke about it not even being a real science, that was a funny day.

[OP No.5659310]

>>5659288
The time element was interesting and something I had not considered earlier. I think it's a logical point and a limitation in self-treatment. I read a story awhile back regarding paralysis that you might have heard about yourself. Through intense focus, a few people were able to regain some mobility after paralysis. Apparently some nerve cells in the spine were circumvented to complete the circuit in one person. In another case, a person was able to move their arm and fingers a bit even though they were not able to feel what they were doing. I'm not sure how much influence their intense focus had, if any, on their nerve cells but they were interesting stories nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.5659314]

I am fairly sure I have ADHD but I function normally. I've simply never been examined by a person who would almost certainly diagnose me with it.

As a college student with a job, now I wish I had some Adderall.

[Anonymous No.5659326]

>>5659303
You're confusing psychology with psychiatry. Psychology is the scientific study and analysis of the human mind, whereas psychiatry is the medical supplementation for psychology. Psychology is essentially a scientific degree while psychiatry is a medical one. What you said about pharmaceutical corporations oppressing pharmacology and legitimate psychiatry is unfortunately true, but in no way is either psychiatry or psychology "mostly with-doctor nonsense."

A psychological disorder is that which arises from faulty conditioning, genetic flaws, abnormal neurological patterns, habit and behavioral problems, and traumatic experiences. A neurological disorder is an abnormality or perceived flaw with the nervous system (which includes the brain). A neurological disorder can contribute to the development of a psychological disorder. A mental disorder is essentially a behavioral problem, the expression of various neurological, psychological, sociological, physiological, and environmental factors. The difference between the two is similar to the difference between mind and brain, where the former is more closely related and used in psychology and the latter in neurology: the mind is the conceptual abstraction of mental processes and conditions originating from various influencing sources, while the brain is the physical organ in which the mind expresses itself.

Neurology is a "hard science," one that focuses on physical phenomena. Psychology is a "soft science," one that focuses on abstract or conceptual phenomena. Why do you think many famous psychologists are also philosophers?

[Anonymous No.5659343]

>>5659310
Those are indeed interesting cases. One of the most amazing aspects of the human mind is that it is highly adaptive and can literally rewire its neurons when necessary. The human mind and body are also very regenerative and if given enough time, brain cells can grow back, severed limbs can fuse back together, and damaged tissue can recover at least almost completely. It's theorized that one of the main reasons why humans cannot grow back entire limbs or organs is because a gene in human DNA prompts the brain to halt growth and regenerative capabilities after a certain age and point. Similar to how there is a gene that commands the brain to prevent bodily growth after a certain age and when suppressed, people can grow nearly twice the length of an average person or more, the suppression of this anti-regeneration gene can lead to complete regeneration of organic tissue in humans if given enough time and energy.

(Scientists are also trying to isolate an aging gene which contributes to organic decay; if suppressed, humans may be able to live much, much longer.)

[Anonymous No.5659388]

>>5659343
So basically our body has a Killswitch for pluripotent stem cells? I've been out the game for ~a decade, so this is news to me, but completely believable.

[wishicouldspoiler]and I motherfucking CALLED IT on intronic DNA, "it's junk DNA it doesn't code for anything", "well what happens if you strip it from the genome?" "Well then the organism isn't viable!" Well clearly it does something if shit DOESN'T LIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE WITHOUT IT. [/wishicouldspoiler]

Fuck I hate dogmatic people. Science is not a religion, you fat cow.

>yes, DeMorrow/Alpini and associates, I'm talking to you
>enjoy your diabetes, whale
>enjoy suckling the government teat for research dollars you haven't earned, and artificially restricting the flow of data to ride one mediocre discovery into 5+ years of grant money

Ah, that was fun getting that rage out. Not that I'm bitter. Neurology is always a topic that's fascinated me, but I went chemistry/biotech/programming because employment was (at the time) more important than my passions.

If we do indeed have a biological regeneration switch, that could be incredibly useful to inhibit.

[Anonymous No.5659393]

>>5659388
This article may be interesting to you: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-03/humans-could-regenerate-tissue-newts-switchin-single-gene

Also this thread might pique your interest: >>5659301

[Anonymous No.5659394]

Which physical diseases can be overcome by sheer willpower? I personally had an extremely severe case of brain cancer that made me unable to function in society. Over the course of several years, I was able to overcome it, though I still get the urges sometimes.

Could something as severe as AIDS be defeated?


This how retarded you sound OP

[Anonymous No.5659398]

>>5659394
Physical diseases are much different from mental disorders. Even AIDS and brain cancer can be overcome, though that requires quick action due to the speed of the diseases' destructive properties. Read the thread and you'll better understand.

[Anonymous No.5659404]

>>5659393
Thanks for the article; already reading and shitposting in that very thread :p

[Anonymous No.5659405]

>>5659158
ADHD is a neuropsychiatric disorder that affects the neurological mechanisms responsible for motivation, attention, and perception of time

[Anonymous No.5659406]

>>5659405
[citation needed]

>>5659404
Which one are you?

[Anonymous No.5659407]

>>5659404
>>5659393
I'll be damned, I even guessed what the mechanism of action was gonna be.

Motherfucker, maybe I need to get back into biology research. This whole programming thing isn't me.

[Anonymous No.5659410]

>>5659406
Just
>>5659400 so far

[Anonymous No.5659415]

>>5659405

Is there a clinical diagnosis for ADD/ADHD rather than just having a psychiatrist evaluate you?

[Anonymous No.5659416]

>>5659410
Alright good. I thought you were the one two-posts after. Seeing how I posted that thread (I didn't feel like using my Monkey man persona), I'd find it ironic that you wanted me to get off the board after treating me so courteously here. Ah well, good to know you contributed anyway.

[Anonymous No.5659420]

>>5659398
Mental illnesses are Physical illnesses
otherwise they wouldn't be a PROBLEM

>Even AIDS and brain cancer can be overcome
through sheer will power right?

>your thread
>mfw
>pseudoscience
INTO THE THRASH IT GOES

[Anonymous No.5659425]

>>5659416
I'm only on the board a few times a week, so I don't feel it necessary to shout down anyone who doesn't operate at or above my level.

I just keep telling myself "at least it's not /g/, at least it's not /g/"

[Anonymous No.5659429]

>>5659420
This isn't my thread, idiot. Try harder and respond with some thought next time, alright? Then, I might care.

>>5659425
Believe it or not, I hail from /b/ and have been a devoted, near-exclusive /b/tard for roughly 6 years.

[Anonymous No.5659433]

>>5659181
watch the movie "A Beautiful Mind."

[Anonymous No.5659436]

>>5659406
you pretentious little faggot

[Anonymous No.5659442]

>>5659429
you are the one making the absurd claim that mental illness is imaginative.

I guess I should stop giving my grandfather his Alzheimer disease medication since he is clearly faking it and just wants attention and/or special treatment

[Anonymous No.5659444]

>>5659442
I think you have him conflated with another poster... I didn't get that indication at all.

[Anonymous No.5659451]

>>5659436
Not pretentious. I was genuinely interested and wished to know from where you acquired such information. Thanks for your response.

>>5659442
In fact, I've made no such claim. I stated explicitly in >>5659256:

>While it is true that schizophrenia causes cognitive dissonance and poor thought processing, while autism is the hindrance of psychological and neurological development, these mental deviations are considered deficiencies and illnesses because they contradict society's expectations of convention and violate the standards humanity has identified and recognized as appropriate. In no way am I implying that mental disorders are not really disorders, only that the reason why we as a species consider them as such is because of our perception and definition of the norm.

Mental illnesses and disorders are real issues; however, they exist only because society identifies them as deviations from the norm. Assuming such a scenario were even plausible, what if the psychiatric norm in society was what we could consider paranoid schizophrenia? What we would consider "average" or "normal" in our society would likely be deemed a mental disorder in the schizophrenic one. It would be perceived as a deviation from the norm, the "order" of the average individual, and thus would be considered a disorder or illness.

You gave a bit of a more intelligent response, but try harder. Oh and try not to be as douchey as your idol, Penn Jillette.

[Anonymous No.5659457]

>>5659420
That actually depends on what you mean by overcome. Of course they can't be cured by willpower alone but you can go pretty far with that willpower. Think Magic Johnson and Lance Armstrong, although they are athletes and athletes are often hyped up.

[Anonymous No.5659531]

>>5659457
Why are you avatarfagging as mr Penn? Seriously, fuck off with that shit. Shitposting in every thread and avatarfagging at the same time?

Look, if you wanna say something is pseudoscience, calmly inform them, via text, and then report (and hide!) the thread if you don't wish to explain further.

Avatarfagging and and e-shouting people down just shits up the board. Debunk it, or hide it and move on, or if its blatant fucktardery, report it.

>Jillette would be ashamed of you

[Anonymous No.5659604]

▲
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how does this make you feel

[Anonymous No.5659631]

>>5659604
top lel

[Anonymous No.5660143]

Can you self-diagnose mental disorders?

[Anonymous No.5660148]

>>5660143

If you have the proper training yes.