Why are we looking for microbes on Mars

[Anonymous No.5657362]

..instead of under the ice on Encleadus?

"Seed" funding was just granted to NASA for a Europa flyby to confirm whether it has a subsurface ocean:
http://news.discovery.com/space/alien-life-exoplanets/will-the-europa-clipper-cruise-to-the-jovian-moon-130401.htm

....But we already know Encleadus has one thanks to Cassini and the cryo geysers at this Saturnian moon's south pole.

So what are we waiting for?

[Nuka-Cola; Neutron Nectarine No.5657372]

funding
and it's not coming very fast, if at all

[Anonymous No.5657413]

Compare eg. the defence budget and Nasa budget. It's much more fun to bomb the Middle East than to explore some iceball in space.

[Anonymous No.5657415]

it takes a really goddamn long time to get to Saturn.

[Anonymous No.5657428]

>>5657415
Longer than it takes to get to Mars?! Nuke it and get up there!

[Anonymous No.5657431]

Why should my tax dollars be stolen and given to state-funded "research" institutes rather then defense?

[Anonymous No.5657443]

>>5657431
Worried about those Muslims...

[Anonymous No.5657471]

we need a cool robot to go there and explore, like a robot that bores through the ice and then goes submarine mode and searches the ocean

[Anonymous No.5657473]

>>5657431

Saying your tax dollars aren't being allocated to your exact desires is immature.

Sure you are technically paying for stuff you don't necessarily think is important nor spend your money on if you had the choice. But then again, America is a prosperous nation partially because of the system of government we have that "wastes" your tax dollars. Our modern life is made possible by expenditures of our government (Roads, schools, municipal water, regulating industries, scientific research, law enforcement).

If it weren't for our system of government we wouldn't even have the jobs we have now to have our tax dollars wasted. Look at countries like North Korea, Syria, any where in Africa. They have corrupt ass governments that don't give a shit about research or the people. America is better because we spend our money on things that will make the future better.

[Anonymous No.5657486]

>>5657473
Government mostly wastes money, and it's perfectly fine to complain about it.

It's a socialist fallacy to say that only government can pave cement or run a school.

And it's in line with wanting government to spend money well to complain about these things. The more distractions it's in charge of, the more NASA's budget will be subject to political tides.

[Anonymous No.5657514]

>>5657362
1) >>5657415 (about 4 times farther than Mars)
2) Mars is closer, more similar to Earth in size and has a CO2 atmosphere, even if it is 1/100 of Earth's density.
3) Enceladus is considerably farther from the Sun, meaning a large amount of light and thus heat, is unable to reach it. This means it'll have deeper ice than Europa and Mars' polar caps and instruments will have to be used that can withstand the 70K temperatures.

[Anonymous No.5657516]

>>5657514
Correction: 4 times farther than Mars if Mars is at its farthest point from Earth and Saturn its closest.

[Anonymous No.5657527]

>>5657486
Wrong board, you fat piece of American burgershit.

[Anonymous No.5657563]

>>5657514
>Enceladus is considerably farther from the Sun, meaning a large amount of light and thus heat, is unable to reach it. This means it'll have deeper ice than Europa and Mars' polar caps
The heat on both Europa and Enceladus doesn't come from the Sun, it comes from tidal friction. So you can't say the ice will be thicker. There is not basis for a subsurface ocean on Mars anyway so the thickness of the ice is irrelevant.
>and instruments will have to be used that can withstand the 70K temperatures.
This is normal for spacecraft in the shade.

[Anonymous No.5657566]

>>5657486

[Anonymous No.5658127]

>>5657362
lrn2JUICE (ESA mission)
not enceladus, but same idea.

[Anonymous No.5658131]

I hope we find some megafauna

[Anonymous No.5658154]

>>5658127
Can JUCIE look for microbes? No.

[None !SouFinItEY No.5658158]

>>5658154

[Anonymous No.5658217]

>>5657431
Hurrah for inti intellectualism! >>>/pol/ plz go

[Anonymous No.5658265]

>>5657362

It's quite disrespectful of you to minimize all of the efforts and knowledge required of what we have done.

It isn't that people are ignoring the place, it's that there are so many things to do.

No one thanks you for ignoring the fact that probing through potentially hundreds of feet of ice over many square kilometers would be extremely hard to do --- it's so easy to write 'just look under the ice' --
because half-wit armchair science is much easier to manage than actually building it.

[Anonymous No.5658268]

Let's say you spend $3 billion trying to find life on Encleadus. Let's say you actually find some.

Then what? Seriously, will that change anything we do, economically? The obvious answer is no.

So why bother? Why bother exploring if Humans will never GO THERE?

[Anonymous No.5658270]

>>5657471

That doesn't make any sense.

First, it presumes that boring through ice is easy and that nothing should be new there.
Second, it assumes an ocean under the ice that can be motored through.

You ignore stuff like communication and control, which are absolutely necessary at all times.

[Anonymous No.5658280]

>>5658270
>You ignore stuff like communication and control, which are absolutely necessary at all times.

not necessary, even the mars rover is mostly autonomous they don't have constant communication with it, by the time we send a mission to this moon we will probably have nearly full autonomous vehicles, all it will need to do is report back its findings

[Anonymous No.5658290]

>>5658280
>all it will need to do is report back its findings
Even if we have a decent robot pilot, we will not have a the AI capable of making scientific judgement about where to go and what to do. Piloting isn't a big deal, defining what experiments we want to do where is.

[Anonymous No.5658295]

>>5658290

> we will not have a the AI capable of making scientific judgement about where to go and what to do.

not yet maybe, I'm trying not to sound like one of those guys thats like "Yeah man in the future everything will be run by robots and itll be great" but seriously we are approaching a point where the robot WILL be capable of making judgements about different things, I thought one of the main selling points of curiosity is it could fire its laser at a rock and determine whether or not that rock was worth checking out or not

[Anonymous No.5658324]

>>5658268
>Seriously, will that change anything we do, economically?
Yes, there will be a call for follow-up missions and a sample return.

[Anonymous No.5658338]

>>5658268
>implying change anything we do economically = change anything we do
>>>/out/

[Anonymous No.5658388]

>>5657527
Same to your post, you fat piece of sweaty, oily, cheap garbage.

[Anonymous No.5658390]

>>5658295
Yes, maybe some day, but the question OP asked is what we're waiting for.

[Anonymous No.5658393]

>>5658268
>Let's say you actually find some.
>Then what? Seriously, will that change anything we do, economically? The obvious answer is no.
>So why bother? Why bother exploring if Humans will never GO THERE?


You've made some errors there.
First, it would drastically change ALL HUMAN ATTITUDES for the better.
Second, OF COURSE WE WOULD GO THERE!
Third, economic justification isn't the only kind -- it's just one of many.
Exploration is one of the most positive and rewarding efforts humans have ever done. Your attitude is one of the worst humans have ever had.
That makes you one of the few pieces of genuinely stupid trash amongst all humans.

[Anonymous No.5658397]

>>5658268
"Whats the point of ever doing things? The status quo is good enough. YOU DONT NEED TO PUSH FOR MORE!"

>absolutelydisgusting.png

[Anonymous No.5658403]

>>5658280
>not necessary, even the mars rover is mostly autonomous they don't have constant communication with it,

'Even'? It's the 7th lander we've sent, and you are discussing this basic balance and wheel rotation is a grand accomplishment.
We're talking SWIMMING here -- not a simple task on earth within a few hundred meters of open ocean!

>by the time we send a mission to this moon we will probably have nearly full autonomous vehicles, all it will need to do is report back its findings
Well, the thread is talking about why we aren't doing it NOW, so it's the current tech that is on-topic.
And yes, it needs to report findings. Not eventually, regularly. Which is why I said communication is a necessity.

[Anonymous No.5658466]

>>5658324

So you're looking for life via sampling so that you can just take more samples?

Again, what does that accomplish? It's like going back to the moon to get more lunar rocks. So what? There's no shortage of lunar rocks, per se, since there's no real use for lunar rocks. Similarly, there's no shortage of Encleadus life samples since there's no real use for Encleadus life.

Bother to think these things through. Economics is what drives Humanity, not your deranged "drive to know more". Economics is what drives spending.

[Anonymous No.5658479]

>>5658393
> You've made some errors there.

Hardly. You're the one denying economics is the primary Human driver.

> First, it would drastically change ALL HUMAN ATTITUDES for the better.

Hardly. Anyone who's paying attention and who is educated, knows we need to expand into space in order to have any chance at all. So it doesn't matter what's out there, we need to go anyway. Exploration, sampling... all these are less than masturbation. That's the ultimate bad attitude, what you're doing.

> Second, OF COURSE WE WOULD GO THERE!

Hardly. Humanity is obviously RETREATING from space colonization. All this privatization is merely the Outsourcing Phase of the downfall of government space programs. Bother to educate yourself; without government money none of these private guys would be in the game. And soon enough, governments will start squeezing even that money, during the Pinching Phase. Funding will dry up, so will the private guys, The End. Spaceflight will stop, forever.

[Anonymous No.5658485]

>>5658393
> Third, economic justification isn't the only kind -- it's just one of many.

Hardly. It's the primary driver of Humanity. Nothing significant gets done unless it makes economic sense. Period.

> Exploration is one of the most positive and rewarding efforts humans have ever done.

Only when it results in economic gain. There's zero economic gain for Humanity for space exploration, unless you're one of the small army of military-industrialists.

> Your attitude is one of the worst humans have ever had.

It's reality. It doesn't matter if you think it's good or bad. Economics is what drives Humanity, not your gay-assed search for esoteric knowledge.

> That makes you one of the few pieces of genuinely stupid trash amongst all humans.

The stupidity is in denying economic reality. That means YOU.

[Anonymous No.5658487]

>>5658397
> Anonymous 04/03/13(Wed)14:38 No.5658397>>5658268
> "Whats the point of ever doing things?
>absolutelydisgusting.png

The point is to make economic gains, moron. You benefit hourly from those efforts. But almost nobody sees economic benefits from space exploration. Only the small army of military-industrialists. They live like kings, princes or at least barons off of free government cheese, just to make tons of hardware that gets destroyed or wasted at record paces.

[Anonymous No.5658489]

>>5658466
>So you're looking for life via sampling so that you can just take more samples?
No; we look for signs of life with probes, and if we find it we want to learn more from it, so we get samples to bring back.
This isn't a hard concept; it's been how all exploration has happened.

>Again, what does that accomplish? It's like going back to the moon to get more lunar rocks. So what? There's no shortage of lunar rocks, per se, since there's no real use for lunar rocks.
There is an EXTREME shortage of lunar rocks, because we have far more people interested in them than we have rocks.
We have people interested in them for both economic and non-economic reasons, and broad learning.
Oh, and you know why the ones on the moon don't count?

>Similarly, there's no shortage of Encleadus life samples since there's no real use for Encleadus life.
That is extremely stupid thinking.
Do you know how much economic demand there is for laser devices today?
Can you guess how much there was 20 years before anything was invented?

>Bother to think these things through. Economics is what drives Humanity, not your deranged "drive to know more". Economics is what drives spending.
Economics is ONE OF the driving forces of civilization -- no one said it is the only force, or that you can ignore all other factors.

Only a fool would think nothing else matters, that you can evaluate all things from economics only.
Let go of it; it's dragging you into stupidity. You are ignoring the real world.

[Anonymous No.5658494]

>>5658487
I was being sarcastic you idiot.

[Anonymous No.5658498]

>>5658485
>> Third, economic justification isn't the only kind -- it's just one of many.
>Hardly. It's the primary driver of Humanity. Nothing significant gets done unless it makes economic sense. Period.
>> Exploration is one of the most positive and rewarding efforts humans have ever done.
>Only when it results in economic gain. There's zero economic gain for Humanity for space exploration, unless you're one of the small army of military-industrialists.

You're a fool. There is no other way to say it.

>> Your attitude is one of the worst humans have ever had.
>It's reality. It doesn't matter if you think it's good or bad. Economics is what drives Humanity, not your gay-assed search for esoteric knowledge.

Actually, I didn't advocate or encourage esoteric knowledge in the remotest way.
Fuck you, gay-assed economics dipshit.

>> That makes you one of the few pieces of genuinely stupid trash amongst all humans.
>The stupidity is in denying economic reality. That means YOU.

I also did not deny economic reality at all.
But I could specify and justify a hundred activities that have nothing to do with economics.
So could you, I'd bet -- but you'd still insist that there was some hidden motivator, or indirect relationship.

You're irredeemable; let it go.

[Anonymous No.5658507]

>>5658485
>>5658479
>Hardly.
>Hardly.
>Hardly.
>Hardly.

lel babbys first attempt at pseudo-intellectualism

[Anonymous No.5658505]

>>5658393
> First, it would drastically change ALL HUMAN ATTITUDES for the better.

Actually, I demand that you expand on that assertion. So what you're saying is the American military won't keeping attacking nations to steal their oil? That Jewish bankers won't keep raping American taxpayers? That Niggers won't keep breeding and committing violent crimes? That people won't keep using petroleum to exhaustion?

What the fuck will change that's "drastic"? Give it a rest, NOTHING will change that even matters. You seem to think a few million nerd boners actually makes a fucking difference.

The ivory tower you live in, has rotted your brain.

[Anonymous No.5658512]

>>5658489
> This isn't a hard concept; it's been how all exploration has happened.

No it isn't. Eventually you stop taking samples since you just GO. In fact, this "exploration" is totally unlike all previous explorations. We keep sending robots. Robots aren't people. Robots aren't the basis for an economy. Without sending people so they can live, work and play in the place you've explored, there's literally no point.

You nerds will never learn. No wonder you're powerless.

[Anonymous No.5658517]

>>5658489
> There is an EXTREME shortage of lunar rocks, because we have far more people interested in them than we have rocks.

There's an extreme shortage of gold, too, but it's a false shortage. Gold is useless. It has almost no real industrial utility. Moon rocks are even worse. Utility is ZERO.

What you MEAN is that lunar rocks are wanted by useless academic pukes like yourself. Well, people like you are useless, so who cares what your demand is?

[Anonymous No.5658523]

>>5658517
>golds is useless
h...ha...ahhaha....hahahaahhahahahahhahahahaha

[Anonymous No.5658527]

>>5658517
>being this retarded
>in the year of our lord 2011+2

[Anonymous No.5658549]

>>5658517
>Gold is useless

What the fuck am I reading

[Anonymous No.5658578]

>>5658517
I remember in 1492 i told the king of spain not to fund that retarded voyage, that money should have been spent fixing the economy. Too bad he didn't listen, there was absolutely no benefit from DISCOVERY.

[Anonymous No.5658622]

>>5658517
>Gold is useless
This is the third time in two days, someone on /sci/ has said this.

[Anonymous No.5658626]

>>5658517
I bet you think diamonds are just for jewellery.

[Anonymous No.5658788]

>>5658517
>useless academics
enjoy your stone age, redneck.
technology is everything that stands the test of time.

[Anonymous No.5658795]

>>5658517
>gold is useless
>found in every electronics
http://www.standardmadness.com/how-to-mine-gold-from-old-electronics/

[Anonymous No.5658815]

>>5658517
>useless academic pukes
How ironic, you're posting that using www that was created by "useles academics" at Cern.