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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5599601 No.5599601[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

So why is it that on this board everyone wants to be a fucking engineer? Why not become a medical doctor? Better pay, more respect, a more tangible benefit towards the common man for the most part, and while most engineering degrees are pussy repellents, doctors get all the pussy.

>Ib4 oh it's too long and too hard to get in.

About half the people who apply to medical school get in each year, and the time it takes to get a Ph.D you'd almost be done with residency.

>> No.5599611

>>5599601
>Why not become a medical doctor?

>/sci/
>actually studying

Pick one.

>> No.5599623

>>5599611

I feel that even though most people just troll with math and feel superior about their major they have a 2.7 in, there's some legit smart people here.

>> No.5599624

-An engineering degree takes roughly 4-5 years.
-It's arguably a more academically rigorous discipline (with regards to science and maths) in comparison to medicine.
-Medicine deals with babby-tier bio and chem, whereas engineering in general deals with more physics and math, providing the most fulfilling science-esque experience one can attain occupationally without a Ph.D.

>> No.5599633

Doctors also have one of the worst job satisfaction ratings whereas bio-med engineers have the highest.

50% of doctors asked "would you do all of it again?" say NO

Its not all about money or power OP

>> No.5599639

>>5599633

And yet 50% of doctors would do it all over again, which means that half of them enjoy what they do. That's more than can be said of a lot of jobs.

>>5599624
>he thinks physics and math are superior to chem and bio

>> No.5599648

>>5599623
They don't post here. They use /sci/ just as another timekilling activity. They lurk and sometimes post stupid things, but they will hardly post actual scientific content because they know nobody is bothering in replying.

>> No.5599650

>>5599648

I know some smart people that occasionally post here, but not often.

The part about the low GPA is so true. So many engineers don't have good GPAs

>> No.5599653

Still thinking about it. Problem is I really hate bio. Med school is also way too long and I'm not getting a phd as an engineer.

>> No.5599664

Isn't it pretty easy to get into med school with an engineering degree?

>> No.5599666

>>5599653

Yeah I really hate bio as well. Don't major in it. Just take the year of it at an easier college (something I wish I did).

>> No.5599670

>>5599664


It is if your GPA is high. Med schools don't cut you any slack regardless of major or Uni (the guy applying from State U with a 3.8 is in better shape than the guy applying from MIT with a 3.3)

>> No.5599673

>>5599639


physics and math ARE superior to chem and bio.


Thats why all the biochem people just learn how to use software when they want to do MD with Charmm and visualize with sybyl or pymol.


thats why 90% of the chem people just memorize how to use Gaussian, and why they spent years and years complaining, with the result that they finally made a GUI for gaussian (Gaussview) so that all the babies could use buttons and drop down menus rather than doing something as complicated as writing a fucking script file.


its why Roche, Pfizer, Astrazeneca, Dupont, BASF, Solvay, Strem, EMD, Aldrich, Parker or <insert countless small market cap specialty semiconductor firms> hire engineers and physicists in any job where the day-to-day mathematics involves something more significant than multiplying.


go to any university. find a computational chemist. you have a 90% probability of measuring that person's undergraduate degree as "physics" or "math"

how about the PI/faculty..... 99% probability that either the bachelors, Ph.D. or both are Physics or math.

they usually publish in Phys Rev..... if not, then they are only contributing the DFT (molecular) or LB (fluidic/ensemble dynamics) simulations as supplements to experimental work performed by other groups.
The fact is that chemists learn the most math and physics after the engineers.


even those chemists who delude themselves into thinking they R SMERT and taking "quantum chemistry" classes.....

no. just. no.


watching a chemist in a hard physics class (eg upper division, cross-listed in the grad division; no more than 12 students in total; 9 of them are grad students; 70% asian, 20% indian/paki, with a high probability that one or more of the white people are eastern or northern europeans)..... is just pittiful.

its like watching videos of LD50 tests on lab mice; the result is inevitable and the struggling is just sad.

>> No.5599675

Bio and chem are to medicine what physics and math are to engineering. Both medicine and engineering are classified as applied sciences. It just depends what your personal, academic interests are (bio/chem or physics/math). Of course, this isn't applicable in all cases (bio eng, medical tech, etc), there is occasional overlap.

>> No.5599676

>>5599673

Your basic argument is that someone trained in Chemistry has a hard time with running software? So what?

A lot of upper-level chem involves linear algebra and divqs. Yeah Physics has more math, but that doesn't make it "superior"

>> No.5599677

>>5599673
A psychology would tell you that you have a superiority complex, but your head would probably explode.

>> No.5599679

>>5599677
*psychologist

>> No.5599684

>not being a pure math major
>2013

>> No.5599687

>>5599601
>So why is it that on this board everyone wants to be a fucking engineer?
More challenging, more demanding on creativity, problems are easier to work with since everything is done on a computer these days.

>Why not become a medical doctor?
You know, I've just never really been interested in med. Besides, the field has always been dominated with brainless Asians, Indians who WILL kill someone and "altruistic" white girls who'll probably end up in gyno or pediatrics. In the case of the Asians, I'm actually glad: I would never trust a creative doctor.

>Better pay,
Actually, no. Systems engineering is the best paid technical field in most countries. Other engineering fields follow. Unfortunately, our med grads aren't paid nearly as much as they deserve, especially in Australia.

>more respect,
Only because society doesn't respect pure intelligence, but can somehow respect "oh, but they're trying to help peoples." Anti-intellectualism is at play here, people just like to forget that med grads are intellectuals as well.

>most engineering degrees are pussy repellents, doctors get all the pussy.
See above.

>> No.5599691

>>5599673
I have an engineering cousin that I'm close to strangling whenever I have to tell him how to use software relating to HIS work.
And I'm inclined towards the humanities, if only by a little.

>> No.5599692

>>5599684
>2013
>wanting to be employable

>> No.5599697

>>5599650

M.Sc. Mechanical Engineer here. 4.0 GPA.
B.Sc. Engineer 4.0 GPA.
In phylosophical crossroad on taking or not a PhD.
>>5599601
OP, maybe you're right. This funny world gives more money to a Medical Monkey who just attend shitty lectures (No real science, or maybe we could call it "soft science" due the lack of scientific data in their methods) and spend 70+% in "training" (repeating the same shit over and over).I lnow these because I hang out with people who are in Health and Med fields.
On the other hand you have Engineers: We attend a LOT of science in different fields. The 90% of time spends on figuring out how things work, and how the behaviour of things can be formalized in equations and numerical methods just to improve those things and take advantage for human development.
So, that's the world we actual live: They pay more a fag who repeat and repeat the same shit over and over just to "do better the next time" instead people who actually care for human advancedment and the future.
Anyways, I think this could change when people and machines yield to a certain point when some physicist or engineer formalize with help of technology the human body behaviour.

Not from an English speaking country btw.

>> No.5599699

>>5599692
>2013
>expecting to enter a high paying job out of college

>> No.5599700

>>5599624
>-Medicine deals with babby-tier bio and chem, whereas engineering in general deals with more physics and math, providing the most fulfilling science-esque experience one can attain occupationally without a Ph.D.
Engineering deals with babby-tier physics and math.... what's your point?

>> No.5599701

>>5599700

goddammit, you beat me to it

>> No.5599705

>>5599700
>differential equations
>e&m
>babby

lol

>> No.5599708

Both sides in this thread sound like gigantic faggots

>> No.5599709

>>5599700
>Engineering deals with babby-tier physics and math

Only if you go to a shit university

>> No.5599710

>>5599697
>In phylosophical crossroad on taking or not a PhD.
Do you enjoy studying and do you have the creativity to innovate? If yes, please, take a PhD for the good of humanity.

Otherwise, just get a good job and go job hoping until you earn 6 figures.

>> No.5599714

>>5599705
Yes. Being a step above high school level doesn't make something difficult.

>> No.5599712

>>5599700
Not necessarily. Hang around some electrical engineering majors and get back to me.

>> No.5599716

>>5599705
Yea, those are pretty babby tier.

>> No.5599718

>>5599700
>Engineering deals with babby-tier physics and math
Why? Because engineering also focuses on applications, making engineering maths seem easier? Being able to actually understand what you're doing and see progress always makes things easier, this is a luxury pure maths or science students don't have as there isn't always an application to what they're studying.

>> No.5599715

>>5599687

while it is true that society is anti-intellectual (especially the lower classes) it still is beneficial in some way.

I respect engineers and all that, I just don't get why medicine gets no love from the nerdier communities online

>> No.5599721

>>5599718
It's babby tier because you aren't anywhere near the forefront of scientific or mathematical theory.

>> No.5599722

Oh look another intellectual power levels thread, these are always so logical and rarely rely on strawmen

>> No.5599725

>>5599712
>taking an analysis class and some "applications of the fourier series" class or such shit
>difficult

>> No.5599729

>>5599715
>I just don't get why medicine gets no love from the nerdier communities online
Nerds online like to obsess about innovations and advancements and will repeat "this changes EVERYTHING" at even the slightest progression. They reward creative, passionate intelligence.

I don't want doctors to have creative intelligence, I want them to have rote learning intelligence. If a doctor tries to treat a patient in a new way, there's always a chance it'll fuck up and kill said patient. Likewise, doctors don't have a chance to show creativity and won't get as much respect.

Good engineers are designing future technology shit. Good doctors are doing the same procedures that have been done for the last 100 years.

>> No.5599726

>>5599700

So true. Everyone acts like Engineers are so amazing because they took Physics and math, not realizing that most premeds take both Calc 1 and Calc 2 and take a year of Calc-based Physics.

>> No.5599731

>>5599601
Let us note that being a doctor is not done as it simply said. It requires a lot of dedication, and extra-curricular activities. Besides if one likes physics and differential equations I see no domain better than engineering for the practical applications of these fields of study.

>> No.5599735

>>5599601

Is it jut me or is there a penis joke hidden somewhere in the OP post?

>Ib4 oh it's too long and too hard to get in.

>> No.5599739

>>5599729
>If a doctor tries to treat a patient in a new way
This is the reason doctors experiment on animals before applying the treatment to a human.

Your post is retarded, but i don't want to elaborate, so i won't.

>> No.5599740

>>5599726
Yes but that's just scratching the surface.

>> No.5599747

Fluid mechanics, gotta love fluid mechanics. Which engineer will work mostly within the fluids field ?

>> No.5599753

>>5599747
aerospace/mechanical

>> No.5599748

>>5599729

Everyone seems to be ignoring the doctors in academia or who do research. The guys who invent shit like Lasik, or the dermatologists that develop shit like Proactiv, or the doctors that find cures/treatments for diseases.

Besides, House uses innovative techniques and procedures to treat rare disorders and diseases

>> No.5599749

>>5599710
Well, I enjoy a lot studying new thing, and more over, My life has ver joy when I decide to innovate something.
But reality takes other roads: I want some good quality life (nice place to live, bitches, cars, etc).
So I'm planning to graduate (this june) of my M,Sc. Degree and find a job for the next 3-4 years and then I'll take serious thinking of persue a PhD in England or Germany.

>> No.5599750

>>5599739
>This is the reason doctors experiment on animals before applying the treatment to a human.
That's research. That's not something a doctor will do.

>Your post is retarded, but i don't want to elaborate, so i won't.
Oh, okay, I'll believe you then.

>> No.5599757

>>5599740

Most engineers just had to take 2 more math classes, and they take the same amount for Physics.

>> No.5599759

>>5599739
Scientists do that.

>> No.5599760

>>5599750

>implying doctors don't do research.

Most have to do some type of research in undergrad/med school

>> No.5599767

Every "premed" guy/girl I've met had a giant ego and it was impossible to talk to them about anything if it didn't relate to whatever drugs they were doing.

I know there are exceptions to the rule but holy hell if that is the majority of people who will one day become doctors then I don't want to be in that kind of environment.

On the other hand, all the Math/Physics/Engineers I've met have been pretty humble. There are the occasional ego monsters in Math and to a lesser extent Physics but they aren't in your face about it on purpose (and when they are you can tell it's just their inability to properly handle social situations mixed with a love for their subject) and the majority of the time they are fine people.


EGO in order of most to least: "Premed" > Math > Physics > * > Geologists > Entomologists

Them Geologists are the most humble and down to Earth people I've met. Same with Entomologists.

>> No.5599770

>>5599739
Calling a MedFag "DOCTOR".
Go back to school idiots.

>> No.5599775

>>5599757
No, I'm an engineer and have to take 3 years of physics.

>> No.5599781

>>5599759
Yeah, and an MD is also a path to research. They're called "Research Doctors", and many choose that because it has a different lifestyle to practice--more regular hours, different training pipelines. The pay is generally on the lower end of what an MD can make, but it's still good.

>> No.5599782

>>5599759
>>5599760
I think we have a misunderstanding of what's "medical practise" and what's "medical science." BTW, engineers are rapidly taking over the medical science field, lots of machines used for detecting illnesses are designed by engineers these days, NOT med students.

>> No.5599778

>>5599767
Werd.
Physics Graduate here.
Dropped Chem.
Full of the PreMed Undead.
I don't mind competition, but having to sabotage-proof my experiments was the limit.

>> No.5599779

>>5599767
tbh chemistry students are the fucking worst as far as ego

>> No.5599783

>>5599779
Chem and Bio majors ARE the highest concentration of PreMedz

>> No.5599784

>>5599767
This.
Premed and med people think they are "elite" in society.

>> No.5599787

>>5599782
Not a minute too soon.

>> No.5599789

>>5599718
>Why? Because engineering also focuses on applications,
Physics is applied math, engineering is applied physics, you are applying applied math.

>> No.5599790

>>5599767
Yeah there's just something grounded about geologists

>> No.5599795

>>5599789

Son I'm dissapointed.
Math is a language to describe physics. Start to live right now.

>> No.5599800

>>5599721
That forefront of yours usually spends hundreds of years before becoming useful. Number theory, for instance, has only just become useful through cryptography regardless of being around since the 1800s.

Graph theory too, completely useless and a triviality until Network engineering came around.

>> No.5599807

>>5599795
This.

Numbers are a human abstraction to describe nature, when they cease to become descriptive they rapidly lose their purpose. Without a physical application of mathematics, there is no point.

>> No.5599803

>>5599795
math explains things, not describes them.

>> No.5599804

>>5599778
>having to sabotage-proof my experiments was the limit.

This is what steered me away from Bio/Chem. I hear more about people backstabbing each other in Bio/Chem than in any other field. Most of the time it is race related too.

I just don't get. I thought the whole point of science was to collaborate with each other to do amazing things, not stay mediocre because you're spending all your time pushing down everyone else.

>> No.5599809

>>5599779

Medical-school-hopeful chem students can be cunts. I've found those interested in chemistry in itself to be rather humble.

I don't know if I would blame those going into chemical physics/theoretical chemistry if they were elitist dicks though. At my university at least, it's generally considered that they aren't far off from a triple major in math, physics, and chemistry. My genchem2 lab TA went to work for GS as a quant after finishing his Ph.D

>> No.5599813

>>5599804
You are confusing scientific progress with human behavior.

>> No.5599811

>>5599781
>>5599782
I get that, but OP specifically said "medical doctor". That carries certain implications. Had he said medical researcher or some such, I'd agree with you.

Besides, the thread is about which is better to study. So yo can't really use medical research as a point for why you should study med, as you don't even need to study med to do medical research.

>> No.5599816

>>5599789
>>5599790
>>5599803
Higher level Math is just logic which is applied Philosophy.

>> No.5599817

>>5599767

You've never met a person who was pre-Investment banking, have you?

>> No.5599819

>>5599784

Most suck (and thankfully the shitty ones are the ones that don't get in most of the time) but it's because of their payscale.

>> No.5599820

>>5599750
>>5599759

Well, then there's something we must clarify here. The doctors everyone is talking about here are the ones whose job is nothing more than remembering symptoms of diseases and prescripting pharmaceutical drugs, locating stuff inside our bodies that are not supposed to be there and make surgery. These kind of people are machines with no more ambition than getting paid or having the right to say "my job is to change the fate of my patients". But there are other kind of doctors, the ones that are interested in doing research and finding more productive ways of healing, the ones that don't mind in studying more about diseases and the physiology of our bodies because their goal is to acquire knowledge.

Obviously i find it more interesting to become an engineer of any kind than becoming a healing machine, since the latter implies studying more than 8 years of your life and making a sacrifice of 1 year working the seven days of the week with 36 hours working shifts every three days just to sit behind a desk and give medication, however, i don't want to become that, my desire is to become a researcher and being helpful to mankind, and that's the reason i'm becoming a doctor. Also, there are no health related majors in my country than medicine doctorate.

>> No.5599825

>implying based Environmentalists aren't the GOAT

>> No.5599828

>>5599820

Fair enough.

There are a good amount of doctors that both practice and do research. I want to do both

>> No.5599831

>>5599705

You're trolling I assume.

ODEs are baby tier.

engineers only truly learn 2 things that chemists do not. everything else is a matter of extent/degree, since engineers will obviously end up using the math much more often than even those chemists who tailor their UD electives to P-chem.

integral transforms
numerical analysis

those two subjects are completely skipped/ignored/untouched, even by chemists who (on their own) take physics and math curricula way beyond the requirements of their own major.

Of course, anyone who knows also realizes that those subjects are relatively straightforward and even somewhat simple, conceptually. In practice, of course, Laplace transforms involve algebra and substitution, followed by looking something up in a reference, then more algebra and substitution, then looking something up in a reference.

numerical analysis involves programming stuff in C/C++ or fortran, which chemists are *NEVER* encouraged to learn, even in computational biochemistry classes.... which are the only computational classes a chemist will likely seek since the computational quantum mechanics classes require that the chemist learn and understand DFT, how to solve functional equations, and the classes themselves usually have prerequisite courses that are also horrendous (ooohhh baby, You know you love solving for the 3N-6 rovibrational nuclear eigenstates in the BO approximation by using the Eckart Conditions with Wilson's FG method....)

>> No.5599834
File: 1004 KB, 160x120, 1360083731573.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5599834

lol this thread.

jealous ass engineer fags in here. butt-hurt they dont get to drive porches, or work with beautiful nurses daily.

>> No.5599840

>>5599834
>beautiful nurses

You don't know shit about medicine, please get the fuck out of this thread.

>> No.5599842

>>5599834
>jealous ass engineer fags in here. butt-hurt they dont get to drive porches
Check the average wages of STEM graduates (including med grads, of course) and you'll realise engineers are up on top. If they're not driving "porches," it's because they're either over worked... or would rather drive a Porsche

>> No.5599843

>>5599834
Yet the thread was started with a med lean (presumably by a med student).

No sir, the guy starting the argument is certainly not the buttmad one.

>> No.5599844

ITT:
All doctors are geniuses and engineers are all just glorified calculators
vs
All engineers are geniuses and doctors are all just glorified symptom manuals

Has anyone in this thread ever heard of a SPECTRUM

>> No.5599849

>>5599844
Engineer here.

Whilst I agree with the second more than the first, I still have a lot of respect for doctor. Once again, I don't want doctors to be more than "glorified symptom manuals," I feel being anything more than that is dangerous. Leave the creative genius stuff to research scientists and engineers, please.

>> No.5599850

>>5599844
I haven't. What is a SPECTRUM?

>> No.5599853

>>5599849
> research scientists

Then what the fuck is a research scientist? What does he study? is research scientism a major?

>> No.5599855

>>5599849
This.
Human development and the future belongs to Scientists, Physicists and Engineers.

>> No.5599856

>>5599853
I was thinking PhD students in the medical field. Practising doctors shouldn't be researching doctors

>> No.5599857

>>5599850
Its what rainbows are made of IIRC. I guess the argument is that 99% of both doctors and engineers are homosexuals so they should all get along

>> No.5599858

>>5599853
MedFag butthurt detected.

>> No.5599859

>>5599853

>being this ass-mad that you have to nit-pick word choice

>> No.5599861

>>5599856
>having a PhD in Biology makes you more qualified to do research than having an MD

Thread just went full retarded, everyone out

>> No.5599869

>>5599861
Why are you so mad?

MD's can treat patients.
Biology PhD's can research how to treat patients.

>> No.5599867
File: 12 KB, 539x496, truth.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5599867

>>5599807
>>5599795
Idiots who think math has anything to do with the real world.

>>5599816
philosofag living in the 1800s. Logic has been reduced to just a specific non-special axiomatization with huge flaws. Rather logic is a tiny subset of mathematics, one of an infinite number of possible axiomatizations, and philosophy is applied logic. So philosophy is applied math.

>> No.5599871

>>5599800
This only shows that it takes engineers hundreds of years to catch up to mathematicians. Afterall, mathematicians aren't sitting around looking for applications, that's science and engineer jobs.

>> No.5599874

>>5599601
>engineering degrees are pussy repellents, doctors get all the pussy.

OP, this kind of stupid attitude lasts about 2-4 years,
until you grow up and find out 'pussy' is neither hard to get
nor is it your goal.

Your comment tells us you are either an idiot or a 15-year-old.

>> No.5599875

>>5599867
There are two types of math.

Logic/proofs and Calculus based.

Humans were thinking about the implications of their surroundings way before they started doing math. Therefore, logic comes from philosophy.

>> No.5599877
File: 96 KB, 464x600, Summer2009CoverArt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5599877

>>5599601

>> No.5599879

>>5599875
Proofs can be modeled in many other axiomatic systems besides what philosophers call logic. In fact the incompleteness theorems gutted the modeling of logic for all other mathematics ages ago.

>> No.5599890

>>5599874
>until you grow up and find out 'pussy' is neither hard to get
I've been rejected so many times I'm finding your post bullshit. Here's the crazy, I'm even rejected by girls who tell their friends they like me. Now I know having a med degree instead of engineering degree is a shallow way to fix this, but all the same; dating as a straight, white man is fucking hardmode.

>> No.5599894
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5599894

> Why not become a medical doctor?
Who says there aren't medical doctors that lurk here?

Unfortunately, if you state that you're a med online, the whole thread turns into pictures of dick cheese and nad rashes. "Doc, what is this?" Who needs that shit?

Stick with engineering. The worst people spam you with is fag jokes.

>> No.5599897

>>5599890
You're in /sci/. You either show us proof of what you're saying is true or you fuck off and take your shit anecdotes to >>>/r9k/.

>> No.5599893

>>5599871
You're missing the point.

Mathematics is an actual waste of time without application.

>> No.5599900

>>5599879
you've severely misunderstood what the incompleteness theorems say. Also what "logic" entails.

>> No.5599913

>>5599890

Good pussy is always hard to get. Getting with some 5 with 2 kids and a few STDs is easy. Getting with a rich sexy virginal waifu is hard as fuck.

>> No.5599920

>>5599893
It's not because you never have breakthroughs in engineering (lol) or in the sciences that lead to breakthroughs in mathematics. It does happen the other way around though. It's misguided to claim that things aren't worth being studied because they don't have an application yet. If we did as you suggest then we'd never make any progress.

>> No.5599924

>>5599869

and MD/PhD's can do both.

Also you can do research with just an MD.

>> No.5599926

>>5599840

There's lots of pretty nurses in nursing school dude. Just because you think all nurses are fat black women doesn't make that the case.

>> No.5599933

>>5599900
Clearly you have never heard of foundational mathematics.

>> No.5599935

>>5599926
Oh, the advantages of living in a first world country...

>> No.5599940

>>5599843

OP here.

Not buttmad at all. Just wondering why since all us nerds are into science, why everyone here is all engineer and very little premed?

Is it because most engineers don't want to have to study as much or they hate school?

Hell, I don't even look at Med school like most people do as "shit I have to do before I practice" and instead look at it like "I get to stay in school for 4 more years while everyone else works."

Just remember that once you leave school you're working for the rest of your life. Why the big hurry to never go to school again if you enjoy it?

>> No.5599949

>>5599857

>mfw I'm a biomedical engineer so have the best of both worlds.

At least my medical classes have some hot girls in them, and generally pre-meds are more fun to be around than engineers (although there's some premeds who are fucking awful people).

And while most physicians are Family or IM, there's literally hundreds of things you can do with a MD that you couldn't do otherwise, and yes you do research on diseases and shit as an MD

>> No.5599960

>>5599890
>dating as a straight, white man is hard

>thinking you have it hard
>not realizing that asians and Indians get discounted by most females just on their race alone, no matter how "alpha" or good they are as people.

You have it easy dude. Hell, I know a black guy in medical school, isn't a nig like you'd think, and girls won't date him because he's black. Hell, girls are like "he's a great guy and all, BUT...."

>> No.5599969

>>5599960
>racism
>bad

We evolved racism for a reason, didn't we?

>> No.5599973

>>5599969

>thinking every socially constructed thing is "racism"
>using evolution to disguise you being a terrible person.

Race wasn't even a fucking thing until a few hundred years ago. There were different tribes and shit, but discriminating just based on skin color is a fairly new thing in society

>> No.5599994

>>5599960
Actually, there are a lot of Asian girls who would be too scared taking a non-Asian home for dinner, their fathers are extremely xenophobic. Indians have it even easier, they're almost invariably set up through their family with a family friend. And in BOTH cases, the standards for men are a lot lower, white men have to do a lot to ensure women don't feel they're only in it for sex (unlike Asian boys).

Once again, dating as a straight, white man is fucking hardmode difficultly.

>>5599897
I could post sociological examples of women accusing men of raping them with their eyes, but you'd just redirect me to /pol/, rightfully.

>> No.5600007
File: 33 KB, 403x357, My Sides.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5600007

>>5599969
>evolved racism

>> No.5600026

>>5599969
Yes, for many of the same reasons that we evolved socialism and determinism.

>> No.5600027

First of all, my memorization is absolutely horrendous. No way I would get decent grades in higher bio and chem and such.
Second of all, I really dont want to be in a hospital all day. It kind of sucks.
Third of all, the clinical/trial/whatever its called thing thats right after they get their degree really really really sucks.

>> No.5600033

>>5600026
Don't forget we also evolved 4chan memes.

>> No.5600062

>>5599994

True, but an Asian girl and a white guy dating isn't even really seen as "interracial". Especially if the girl was raised in the states.

>> No.5600079

I thought I wanted to be an MD until I started volunteering at a hospital and shadowing one

1. Hospitals are miserable places, both because of the patients and the bullshit office politics that seem even worse than in menial jobs. Private practice seems about as fun as hitting yourself in the dick with a porcupine

2. I'm all for socialized medicine, but I doubt it's going to help the finances of many doctors.

3. I really don't care for the respect and admiration of soccer moms and old people that shit themselves.

I'm not doing engineering either

>> No.5600081

Because I hate people and want them to suffer.

>> No.5600085

>>5599699
>2013
>Expecting to get a job

>> No.5600146
File: 48 KB, 387x400, 1361841788074.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5600146

protip: work sucks and takes the majority of your life so you better do what you like (and can also make a living off of)

for me, I hated bench research, but i liked medicine and the hospital so i left the lab and now im in med school.

>> No.5600148

Because becoming a doctor requires social skills

>> No.5600152
File: 31 KB, 960x634, fte.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5600152

>tfw your dream was to become a physicist but it's a risky career choice and you don't want to dedicate your life to your work so you study CS instead
>tfw you will always wonder "what if?"

>> No.5600159

>>5600152
Feel less when you get a job crunching numbers for an aeronautical company. Lockheed Martin hire a bunch of CS grads to do essentially physicists work.

>> No.5600168

>>5600152

That feel when you want to get into the technology industry, but the most interesting jobs all require maths.

>24
>taking college algebra

Yeah, I'm fucked.

>> No.5600175
File: 86 KB, 866x1074, 1353239203847.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5600175

>>5600146
>that picture
Please kill yourself.
Protip: The child on the left lives in a capitalist country, the one on the right not so much.

>> No.5600177

Because I like math, physics, chemistry and problem solving.

>> No.5600180
File: 54 KB, 720x540, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5600180

>>graduated with degree in cellular molecular biol
>>been working as freelance photog during and after studies.
>>have applied and awaiting for dental school
>>realized amount of debt to incur
>>rethinking options

The way our economy is right now, I'm debating on continuing with the original plan. The debt to incur is massive. Lets face it. Everything feels like a job when you have loans to pay back.

I like photography. I like dentistry. The former pays less but the latter requires a lot of debt.

It sucks to be talkin about monies vs happiness. Engineering or medicine, fuck it. Did you know there's people out there making more by just parking cars and serving food? Pick something you enjoy and let it ride.

>> No.5600182

>>5600175
The one on the right is part of a minority tribe being starved to death by the majority tribe in the area, preventing the minority from leaving for areas they can get their own damn food.

>> No.5600184

>>5600152
>CS
Enjoy getting outsourced

>> No.5600185

>>5600182
Yes.
Not capitalism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtRBK9OR2KY

>> No.5600187

>>5600180
It is a tough call. But if you get the degree, it will help you get hired in a tough economy over people that do not have a degree in many job areas. Not in driving a taxi or waiting tables, but it will help get you a job as a government contractor or working in a medical, technical, or engineering discipline.

>> No.5600190

>>5600185
Before marxism came along, we used to call "Capitalism" freedom. Capitalism has done more for improving the human condition than any other concept in human history. It leverages human behavior into productive areas better than threatening people or other motivational means employed through history.

>> No.5600192

>>5600180

How much does the Dental industry pay? Compare the average to how much it would cost to get that degree and find out how long it will take to pay it off. Some jobs can do it in like 5-8 years. After that, you can easily enjoy whatever you do in the Dental industry.

>> No.5600193

>About half the people who apply to medical school get in each year
haha not in canada. i think it's more like 5-10%

>> No.5600195

>>5600085
Getting a JOB out of college is the main benefit. "High paying" is relative though.

>> No.5600197

>>5600180
We have that poster in our scrum sprint training.

>> No.5600198

How about each one of us does whatever we enjoy to do and don't shittalk other people's interests?

/thread

>> No.5600200

>>5600198
What if you don't enjoy any of it and you just want to make money?

>> No.5600199

>>5600198
Then it wouldn't be 4chan!

>> No.5600201

>>5600199
>it's le 4chan we have to be le assholes to each other XD
>>>/b/

>> No.5600209
File: 30 KB, 559x515, 1353203846384.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5600209

>>5600190
This.

:)

>> No.5600214

>>5600201
4chan is where posters play at a being libertarians and anarchists, and are generally snottier and ruder than they'd dare to be in their meatspace life.

>> No.5600215

>>5600190
And back when slavery was still a thing in the us, we used to call "not being a slave" freedom. Doesn't mean that's the end of it. Capitalism is one step up from feudalism, that's all.

>> No.5600219

>>5600215
>Capitalism is one step up from feudalism, that's all.
Socialism is going back to state control.
It's called violence.
Free markets are freedom, period.
Live and let live.

>> No.5600220

>>5600175
That's for the average person, the noble person lived better than we do now back in Feudal times. What society really needs to strive for is somewhere between what the nobles had, and a technological replacement of our current workforce.

>> No.5600221

>>5600175
Wait, hold on, almost all of those besides the average per-capita income are a result of technology, NOT our economical condition. Fucking hell, why list the achievements of engineers as the achievements of shitty economists?

>> No.5600225

>>5600219
>Socialism is going back
Loaded sentence.

>It's called violence.
Funny, many socialist countries make do with less violence than USA.

>> No.5600228

>>5600215
There are two ways to control a resource: the people involved can do it (capitalism), or an outside authority can do it (socialism). For some things, like chocolate puff cereal, letting the people involved is fine. For other things, like highly radioactive material, its best to limit it to an outside authority.

Freedom versus Slavery does show the difference between self determination versus outside determination. It is the same concept. Do you have a problem with people being responsible for how they do things and how they share what they have?

>> No.5600229

>>5600221
Wait?
Are you actually denying the technological advancements are the result of capitalism?

The transportation costs because of the mass production of cars and airplanes?

The cheap food costs because capitalism mass produced food for everyone

The lifespan due to the houses capitalism made, the medicine it produced, the food it produced.

Cost of electricity, communications and etc were all mostly due to the market.

The market actually built these things.

>>5600225
>being this deceptive and pretending market based economies like sweden are socialist because they have a few social programs
>pretending america is a free market when it has massive state control over industry and canada is more free market than it
Who brainwashed you? Just stop lying.

>> No.5600232

>>5600220
>the noble person lived better than we do now back in Feudal times.
lol wait what?

The average "poor" person in america has a higher living standard than a king back then.

>> No.5600235

>>5600221
It's not about economists, it's about our economic structure. He is suggesting that capitalism helped fuel that. Economists don't create economies in case you didn't know that.

>> No.5600237

>>5600220
False. The average American lives better than any noble in the feudal age. Are you confused and mean a modern nobel such as the british nobility? They have a much higher standard of living than the average brit.

>> No.5600239

>>5600229
>Are you actually denying the technological advancements are the result of capitalism?
Considering the amount of technological advancement in the Renaissance and Enlightement periods, both characterized by Feudalism and a patronage system; yes, yes I am.

Even today, our best advancements are from PhD students who aren't really getting paid for what they're doing, it's more the hope they'll have a nice, shiny, piece of paper that says "doctorate" on it.

Your capitalism caused cheap luxuries and higher wages, but many of the purely technological advances would have occurred, possibly more efficiently, without capitalism.

>> No.5600241

>thinking any degree works as a pussy repellent

yeah you don't actually leave your parents house much

>> No.5600242

>>5600175
We need a free market to create a world of abundance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BltRufe5kkI

>> No.5600249

>>5600221
But the reason for the technology is capitalism, little to no restrictions against developing it, and need.

>> No.5600247

>>5600239
>Considering the amount of technological advancement in the Renaissance and Enlightement periods, both characterized by Feudalism and a patronage system; yes, yes I am.
What the fuck does this have to do with anything?
Capitalism built the machines and factories which did all those amazing things in the picture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BltRufe5kkI

>Even today, our best advancements are from PhD students who aren't really getting paid for what they're doing, it's more the hope they'll have a nice, shiny, piece of paper that says "doctorate" on it.

Universities and the PHD program are the result of states, that why the state pays students to go to college and they end up with all these worthless leftist degrees.

>but many of the purely technological advances would have occurred, possibly more efficiently, without capitalism.
HAHA What?

When we started to free the market and created america we had the biggest explosion in technology the world has ever seen.
When socialism(slavery) tried to do it in the USSR they stagnated and had to copy western inventions to survive for the most part.

>> No.5600248

>>5600241
Well.

Saying I have a law degree would definitely be more impressive than saying I have a degree in engineering, barring the fact that a law degree involves memorizing torts/acts and studying cases for precedent (basic rote learning), whereas engineering involves technical problem solving and complex mathematics.

>> No.5600250

>>5600249
>little to no restrictions against developing it
This.

This is the point.

People should be free to get the capital to innovate. The people are the innovators not the state.

>> No.5600256

>Why does everyone want to be an engineer on this faggoty board?
It's the easiest course marginally related to science, which earns a decent living. Basically, the easy way out.
>Why not a medical doctor?
Most engineers aren't smart enough.
>Doctors get the pussy
A surgeon wouldn't have the time to fuck a lot anyway.

In conclusion:
Math/Physics (pure) Medicine > Everything else > Calligraphy > Engineering.

>> No.5600258

>>5600256
What is the point behind wanting to do things the hard way?

Besides bragging rights.

>> No.5600259

>>5600239
Capitalism allows for more patronage than non-capitalism. that's why technology advances increase under capitalism.

While it is true that advances do happen in non-capitalistic societies, the amount of CAPITAL available to fund research (patronage) is less, and therefore there is less advancement.

Your own evidence shows this pattern. Capitalism allows there to be more entities to pool their capital to provide patronage to those that develop new science, knowledge, products, and services.

>> No.5600264

>>5600259
>While it is true that advances do happen in non-capitalistic societies, the amount of CAPITAL available to fund research (patronage) is less, and therefore there is less advancement.

This, holy shit these.

End the federal reserve so people can have an abundance of savings and capital.

>> No.5600265

>>5600256
Most engineers I know are smarter than the doctors I know. And it takes more intelligence overall to be an engineer. But thanks for trying.

As this is a /sci/ board and not a /bio/logy, it isn't surprising that this board has more hard sciences and maths on it than bios and medically inclined.

>> No.5600269

There should be a medicine board, I'm really interested in that.

You'd think that's what /fit/ is supposed to be but it's all wannabe alpha males even lifting.

>> No.5600274

>>5600269
Sorry brotha. I guess you need to find an aspiring doctors or aspiring veternerian forum or board. I know a lot of clever vets that swapped from being a human doctor to animal doctor because they figured out that they'd rather deal with animal patients and their human families than people patients and their human families. Being a vet is good money and the school loans aren't as big as being a human doctor.

>> No.5600277

>>5599601

i have to touch humans.. ewww

no phanks

>> No.5600290

Obamacare destroyed my dream of becoming a doctor.

USA is going to collapse anytime though I might just move somewhere else that has a free market.

>> No.5600292

>>5599700

engineers (depends of what kind of engineer)

but most engineers have ether as much physics as people studying physics, or as much math as a mathematician. you don't get to skip any concept. you learn it all. so that you can cooperate with them later. although you get more applying and you get less proof

you must not forget that engineers courses are supposed to be more intensive and harder than any other fields (thats the point about bragging that you are engineer) and thats why you are studying 200% more than any other in the faculty

>> No.5600293

>>5600290
then why did so many people allow it to pass? why was it ruled constitutional 5-4? Is this some govt conspiracy to let the illuminati rule the world? I dont think so. I dont think Obama has a hidden agenda and I think he is smart, not enough credit is given to a half-black man.

>> No.5600294

>>5600256

>It's the easiest course marginally related to science, which earns a decent living. Basically, the easy way out.

Yeah bro, stay living on your daily basis of "We Medfags are elite" while all instruments you use to do your "job" (repeating and memo the same shit over and over) are invented by engineers.
For fucking science, seriously, you medfags belong to HEALTH and CARE sector. If you want to innovate, research and give something to humanity, at least you need to take class of mechanics and electricity, because in reality you wouldn't give advancedment to humankind just by wearing nice light blue coats and a scalpel.
Grow up kid and keep memorizing the shit that has been written since XVI century.
Medicine wouldn't be the same discipline without engineers, I bet you medfags would be doing cuts and cuts just to "understand" by practice.

>> No.5600297

> and the time it takes to get a Ph.D you'd almost be done with residency.

Most engineers don't do PhDs, you're thinking of actual scientists.

>> No.5600295 [DELETED] 

>>5600292
>but most engineers have ether as much physics as people studying physics, or as much math as a mathematician
That's not true, for a masters degree in engineering you have to take as many physics and math classes to be have a bachelor's

>> No.5600298

>>5600256
>Most engineers aren't smart enough.
I can second this, graduate engineering classes are a tenth the size of first year engineering classes. I can only suspect that if they weren't smart enough for engineering, they'd definitely not be smart enough for med.

Then again, that was mostly foreign students. Goddamnit, why are foreign students so dumb? Zhou and Chang simply can't work alone, and Akbar and Mohammed can't understand the course material.

>> No.5600299

>>5600298
>they'd definitely not be smart enough for med.
>medicine
>smart

Most med students I know are gigantic idiots who can't even calculate concentrations. Memorizing a zillion body parts and diseases is not the same thing as intelligence, but unfortunately that's what most med schools seem to focus on.

>Goddamnit, why are foreign students so dumb?
I do biomedical science, and there was actually a foreign student with an MD (who was legitimately a doctor) in my class who failed a class on human diseases.

>> No.5600302

>>5600293
Very few people allowed it to pass. Took every trick in the political book, and they invented a few new ones to do it.

As for why it was ruled constitutional--- the US Supreme court very rarely rules against the expansion of government powers. Anyone that spent any time checking out the court knew it was going to be a 5-4 ruling, with the odds that they'd uphold it being about 80% due to their past history of ruling in favor of government power expansion.

>> No.5600305

>>5600298
>I can only suspect that if they weren't smart enough for engineering, they'd definitely not be smart enough for med.

I beg to differ:
What you study in med? names and text? in other words, that wouldn't differ so much than a memorist.
While in engineering courses you need not just memorize but understand and ANALYZE how a system works. Read that? ANALYZE, that word implies more than just place in your brain words and words. I bet you couldn't understand the boundary conditions of a problem and how to model it in equations, then in code and finally obtain a product/method to use in advantage for humankind.

>> No.5600306

>>5600299
Which is why medicals think they are smarter than everyone. They spent all that time memorizing so much. Same reason the girl in your second grade class thought she was smarter than everyone else--- she memorized the globe. Didn't help her with logical thinking or crtical analysis, but hey, she knew what the capitals of all the countries on the globe were!

Doctors are a doomed profession. Eventually, Americans will replace them with expert systems that diagnosis their ailments and recommend treatments, leaving only a few "health researchers" to study and expand the expert systems database.

>> No.5600309

>>5600302
i find you unbelievable. while i do believe we will run up more debt, i think we will be smart enough to balance the budget somehow

>> No.5600311

>>5600306

This. People involved in medicine don't analyze, intead they're valuated for being good memorizers.

>> No.5600318

>>5600309
What's unbelievable? That the Democrats used illegal processes to get Obamacare passed? That's true. But it doesn't matter--- it's a long standing American tradition to ignore process when it is inconvenient. Hell, American law is that it doesn't matter HOW ILLEGAL THE PROCESS WAS NOR HOW ILLEGAL THE PARTICAPANTS WERE in the making and passing of a law--- once passed it is law. Congress passed that law a couple of centuries ago.

As for the Supreme Court, it usually rules in favor of expanding the federal government's powers.

>> No.5600319

>>5600311
Because it is VERY important to be able to remember that something you saw the same thing 12 years ago and the proper treatment that fixed or alleviated that problem when it just ends up in front of you again. Being a doctor is like being a lawyer, only with more squishy things involved.

>> No.5600321

>>5600309
We will not bother to balance the budget because very few national politicians believe it is important. And it isn't, so long as there are entities willing to buy up the debt. It is only when there are no more entities willing to buy up the US debt that a balanced budget will suddenly matter to Capital Hill.

>> No.5600328

>>5600319

> Being a doctor is like being a lawyer, only with more squishy things involved.

You went full retarded.
That's your intelligence son.

>> No.5600334

>>5600328
You disagree? Lawyering is about case law and memorization is very useful there. Doctoring is primarily about memorization.
Lawyers may use a bit more critical analysis and debate, depending on what their domain they end up in, but overall, if you are a good doctor you'd probably make a passable lawyer.

>> No.5600339

>>5600334

twopenny medfag in there.
You went full retarded because you're saying what average med students and medicals say: we're like (Paste field f study here) but better because we (paste an idiotic argument here).

>> No.5600338

>>5600334
Not him, but it just seems in bad taste to compare lawyers with doctors, even if what you're posting has merit.

>> No.5600358

>>5599973
wat

This is just one example, but every ~100 years for the last few thousand years someone has tried to exterminate the jews.

>> No.5600359

>>5600293
>then why did so many people allow it to pass? why was it ruled constitutional 5-4? Is this some govt conspiracy to let the illuminati rule the world?
no people are stupid and dont understand economics
I think of liberals like angry creationists

>> No.5600363
File: 32 KB, 500x500, liberal arts master race.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5600363

>2013
>STEM

>> No.5600377
File: 207 KB, 600x495, 1344283048576.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5600377

>>5600363
HAHAHA Get out you jobless socialist.

>> No.5600380

>>5600363
>2013
>not stem
Jesus, think of the future. All the western jobs are being mechanized and automated, we'll only need technicians and maintenance in the future, as well as a few geniuses working in R&D.

>> No.5600393

>>5600380
if we had a free market we'd have a 2 day work week

and an abundance of jobs

>> No.5600404

>>5600393

Are you retarded?