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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 81 KB, 420x326, apoptosismacrophage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5536158 No.5536158 [Reply] [Original]

If every cell in the body has died and been replaced every 7 years through Apoptosis, How are we the same person throughout our lives?

>> No.5536159

Yeah... keep believing that bullshit.

>> No.5536161 [DELETED] 

>>5536158
same reason as if you replace every one of the thousands of different parts of a ship very slowly over the years, you still call it the same ship.

memories are still intact, and that's what makes a person them.

>> No.5536162

>implying

Also, because the definition of a person doesn't change even if individual cells or bodyparts change.

>> No.5536170

>>5536161
Unless the body can learn to adapt over time to let the new cells in on whats going on.

>> No.5536173
File: 95 KB, 700x828, hailsagan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5536173

High fidelity of genome replication.

>blah blah blah dna polymerase blah blah blah exonuclease activity etc...

>> No.5536176

We aren't. This is why im against capital punishment.

>> No.5536180

Cortical neurons are never replaced.

>> No.5536183

Except we aren't replaced every 7 years. Keep your shit unless you know what you're talking about.

>> No.5536200

a person is defined by the sum of their memories and past actions

a consciousness, at any stage in their life, no matter what the cells are, will always be the "same" consciousness in that the memories and actions are cumulative

so no they are they same person still

>> No.5536196

>>5536176
way to be retarded

>> No.5536203

>>5536161
>memories is what makes a person

>> No.5536206

>>5536200
So its more of our consciousness than our physical body?

>> No.5536210
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5536210

>>5536200
>memories are cumulative

>> No.5536211

>>5536206

unless you're defining humans as merely cells, which is acceptable on a certain physical level, but the question you asked seems to be more philosophical

>> No.5536216

>>5536211
I meant it more philosophical.

>> No.5536222
File: 122 KB, 800x600, 3dfx_Voodoo2_1000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5536222

>>5536158
It isn't the cells, it's the assembled structure that matters.

Take for instance, the number 12. It isn't the same as 1 + 2, and even if you wrote each part in a different type face, the number 12 would still represent the same concept.

>> No.5536223

>>5536200
>>5536206
don't use the c word again. it's like saying candyman

>> No.5536235

>>5536158
yeah same dna bro

>> No.5536236

>>5536235
also memories are literally stored in proteins that fold and unfold

>> No.5536247
File: 56 KB, 602x600, 602px-Digital_rectal_exam_nci-vol-7136-300.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5536247

Multipolar neurons don't get replaced when they die. You have the most number of neurons you'll ever have when you are first born and then its down hill from there.

>> No.5536252

>>5536247
So that's why we lose our imagination

>> No.5536269

>>5536158
>How are we the same person throughout our lives?
Isnt it obious that we are not?

>> No.5536305

Watch Serial experiments lain, very relevant.

>> No.5536311

>>5536236
provide a source please or be more precise

>> No.5536314

>>5536158
If we weren't this would mean that your brother who is 8 years younger than you isn't your brother at all.

>> No.5536335

>>5536158

When someone you love dies, and they're cremated, and you have an urn of ashes, keep in mind that the material in there was part of stuff that was on sale at the supermarket 2 weeks ago, or part of a domino's pizza 4 months ago, or some crappy overpriced junk from a 7-eleven sometime in the past year, and so on...

>> No.5536350

>>5536158
what makes you think you're the same person as previous versions?

answer that and you'll know.

>> No.5536369

>>5536311

Long term potentiation and long term depression of neurons are the mechanisms that cause memory. The former is mediated by a buttload of chemical messangers (not neurotransmitters, like kinases and CAP) and receptors so a neurons ability to potentate is because of the proteins being expressed in that neuron.

HOOOOWEVER, >>5536236 doesn't leave room for long term depression which is a product of just how the neuron works; with voltage gates and leaky ion channels and what not. That is kind of more just the way neurons are instead of proteins....whatever...

>> No.5536380

You idiots are forgetting that the cells that constitute a person, the brain cells, don't get replaced.

>> No.5536388

>>5536380

Neurons =/= a person as well. You can have an entire body made of neurons but if they're not forming dendritic connections then you're just a potato with downs.

>> No.5536393

>>5536388
What's your point?

>> No.5536397
File: 153 KB, 1000x1225, laughing_buddha_statue[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5536397

>>5536388
>A potato with downs

Ahahahaha! That is a very subtle genetics joke. Applause.

>> No.5536406

>>5536393
What do you think a person is? What makes a person who they are? Saying neurons constitute a person is analogous to saying elements constitute a planet.

>> No.5536405

>>5536388
>Neurons =/= a person as well.

Your neurons + neuroglia + the sum of all the synapses between them in the way they are arranges in your particular brain = you

Any consciousness = the neurons + neuroglia + the synapses between those neurons

There is nothing more.

>> No.5536420
File: 105 KB, 1062x821, Diploma.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5536420

>>5536405
Welp, I guess that answers all of the philosophical and complex questions that scientists have tried to figure out for hundreds of years!

Here's your diploma in neuroscience, Anon. You earned it.

>> No.5536431

>>5536420
I already have my diploma..

And this is the view of many prominent researchers in the field. Although many mechanisms are still not understood it's only a matter of time before the detailed workings of the CNS are revealed.

>> No.5536438

>>5536393

The unique set of neural pathways formed from dendrite connections is what actually makes people functionally different. These pathways are what makes one person make one choice and another make a different one because they allow for the formation of different neural circuits. It's not just the cells but how they are arranged that makes the person or mind or soul or whatever.

These also change over time, allowing you to account for why people change with age. A person is born with ~2*10^11 neurons and by adulthood it has decreased to ~1*10^11. However, the adult brain is 5 time larger than a newborns because of the growth of synaptic connections and myelination. You lose cells but it grows larger as you age.

>> No.5536444

>>5536247
That's been debunked a long time ago.

>> No.5536448
File: 444 KB, 141x141, 1351432605743.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5536448

>>5536438

>> No.5536459

Oh also,

>>5536397

I'm glad you enjoyed it...I didn't even know I made one. Care to enlighten me on how I'm accidentally more witty than when trying? Like, for real...

>>5536420

>philosophical

Scientists don't answer philosophical questions. Armchair speculation can never collect experimental data to falsify a hypothesis.

>> No.5536473

>>5536444

Oh? You can grow a new thalamus with the nsc in your olfactory bulb? If neurons in the cortex can replicate than how come people who suffer strokes talk funny?

>> No.5536476

the nucleoporins in your neurons are never replaced or recycled

themoreuno.jpeg

>> No.5536503

>>5536459
A potato has 48 Chromosomes. A human has 46. Although Trisomy is an extra 21, I still thought it was funny, since you'd only be another down syndrome away from being a potato.

Also, a lot of questions regarding "What is a person?" are philosophical. IN FACT! Most all scientists were also philosophers, and the word was interchangeable until 1833, when the word "scientist" started a new branch. Before, everyone just called scientists "natural philosophers." :)

>> No.5536573

>>5536222
Holy shit. That card is fucking ancient.

>> No.5536666

>>5536158
Apoptosis is a response to a cell signalling either itself or another cell that it is damage to the point that it cannot or should not repair itself and must abolish itself for the good of the whole organism. Cells only undergo apoptosis if they are beyond genetic repair or are compromised by a pathogen.

You misunderstood the concept of regular atomic replacement. Theoretically after a certain amount of time all the atoms that originally made up the components of a cell are replaced by new atoms. However this doesn't seems so likely as the cell would have to replicate its genome and discard the old one. Though all the proteins and cell wall components and lesser chemicals water etc can be regularly replaced

>> No.5536670

>>5536666
quads

>> No.5536700

The human mind has the great privilege of being able to recognise the familiarity of things through form and shape, rather than judging the familiarity of an object by its atomic composition. A candle, for example, carries a certain intelligibility which allows for us to observe it and identify it as a "candle" because of its general form and structural integrity, and any other candles, although being an individual candle, can still be seen as familiar to the previous candle because of its similar form and its usage which we assigned it. When the candle melts, we still understand that it's the same candle, because we have noticed that, upon using the candle for its assigned task, it melts and creates a different form which we now recognise as a form relative to a candle. Just as the human body deteriates, we can still identify it with its predecessor because we understand that it has, in fact, deteriated, and its essence is still of the former identity unless it changes so dramatically that it takes on a different identity or intended purpose.
Does this make sense to you?

>> No.5536798

>>5536158
For the most part neurons aren't destroyed or created later in life.

>> No.5537115

>>5536473
Of course you can't grow a chunk of your brain back after it dies. If your finger is cut off it won't grow back either, but that doesn't mean cells grow back to repair a cut. The same happens with your brain. Minor damage, and for some people major damage, can heal naturally. Like skin cells, brain cells also grow and replace dead cells. You are not limited to the amount you are born with, having no hope to replace any that are damaged.