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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5505685 No.5505685[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

If evolution is real why are there gay people?

>> No.5505687

If God is real why are there gay people?

>> No.5505692

Because God is gay.

>> No.5505700

>>5505685
if a women carries the male gay genes, she may be more fertile. and that increase in fertility may more than offset any decrease when the same gene is carried in men.

>> No.5505707

Overpopulation limiter.

>> No.5505711

evolution has a sense of humor

>> No.5505715

>>5505685

Guess what the primary cause of homophobia is, OP.

>> No.5505719
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5505719

>>5505685
due to social pressures, gay people have typically had offspring

paradoxically, the best way to let gayness die out is to be all liberal and remove this social pressure

the Christian right haven't realised they are promoting homosexuality by insisting we all behave straight

>> No.5505733

>>5505719

I want to fuck her in the ass.
Does that make me gay?

>> No.5505753

>>5505687
I dunno you guys are the scientists

>> No.5505754

Evolution is not genetic.

>> No.5505767

I've heard it has to do with the amount of testosterone during fetal development.
As far as the evolutionary advantage, there is none.
Just like there isn't for people with downs syndrome.

>> No.5505787

>>5505767
>As far as the evolutionary advantage, there is none.
nope.

suggest you start here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Sexual_orientation_and_evolution

>> No.5505794

>>5505685

It's a malfunction the human brain is susceptible like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.

The idea is that the hasty expansion and modification the brain has gone under has left it susceptible to all sort of malfunctions not seen in other animals.

>> No.5505796

>>5505767
>Just like there isn't for people with downs syndrome.
Aneuploidy has played a very significant part in evolution you retard

>> No.5505799

>>5505794
troll harder white boy

>> No.5505798

it's actually better for a species if a small percentage of individuals don't try to compete for reproduction.


http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/

>> No.5505806

>>5505685

Because it's a minor maladaptation that doesn't really hinder reproduction and may have positive benefits for human social groups. Bisexual tendencies are common in bonobos, which are one of our nearest relatives, and they play a role in cementing social bonds in their society. Full-on homosexuality in humans is likely just an exaggeration of those tendencies, which are also present in humans. There may also be other reasons for that exaggeration to exist - ranging from increased artistic ability to having "extra" males around for warfare to the aforementioned limiter on population growth.

One important thing to note about evolutionary maladaptation is that sometimes something that seems counter-intuitive to successful continuance of the species actually becomes important, such as a peacock's plumage.

>> No.5505807

>>5505799

Not trolling. Exclusive homosexuality has the same statistical profile of the common mental illnesses. And, contrary to what many believe, eclusive homosexuality is not seen in other animals any more than schizophrenia.

>> No.5505803

>>5505700
What about the women who have "increased fertility" genes but choose not to have kids? Do they also have genes for making a choice about having kids? What is the status of their male relatives whose existence is thus not justified by the extra offspring their female relative was supposed to bring?

>> No.5505822

>>5505807
There's no "exclusive homosexuality" in humans either. They're just ignoring a part of their bisexuality.

>> No.5505829

>>5505822

Truly homosexual people are repulsed by the opposite sex just as straight people are repulsed by the same sex.

>> No.5505830

>>5505803
it only matters in averages taken over populations. if gay male gene increases women's offspring more than it decreases men's, it will persist in men and women, as every man has a mother.

>> No.5505833

>>5505807
>trolling and/or pseudo-science

>> No.5505839

If anything, gay people just further confirms evolution. All across the animal kingdom, homosexuality is used to curb overpopulation (overpopulation eventually = extinction). Or if a certain area is more densely packed with a particular gender, the amount of homosexual organisms will rise in order to balance this gap, and lower competition.

No I'm not providing sources, if you want to check my work, google it yourself.

>> No.5505842

>>5505830
Yeah, I understood that but, I was asking about those women who have the same genes supposed to increase fertility and who choose not to have kids. How are those genes supposed to work (behaviours) since we assume everyone has free choice about whether they want or not to have kids? Or do those genes make women totally promiscuous which increases the chances of having offspring?

>> No.5505845

>>5505833

Look up the facts. Homosexuality has the same prevalence, heritability and twin correlation as mental illness.

It's not an adaption, it's a malfuntion.

>> No.5505843

>>5505839
>hitchen's razor

>> No.5505849

>>5505839
That's just a myth. There was homosexuality in the human species even when the world population was under 100 milions on all the continents (Ancient Greece era). And probably even earlier than that.

>> No.5505851

>>5505842
they work because they do not influence those decisions. and such decisions are made in equal proportions in carriers and non-carriers alike

>> No.5505857

>>5505845
even if true, that's irrelevant.

it's along the lines of: "i have two feet, birds have two feet, therefore i'm a bird" type reasoning. you are clearly 16 years old at most.

also, it's up to the one who makes the claim to provide the supporting evidence, otherwise we should feel free to point at you and laugh.

>> No.5505863

>>5505851
So you're saying the genes work only if the women choose to have kids, compared to those who also choose to do so without having the same genes. But if this is true, isn't evolution kicking itself in the feet if it allows some people to even think they have a free choice over whether they have kids or not? Normally, nature should have already decided that they should (if they're straight), but not all straight people have kids. So, it seems evolution is not particularly effective when it comes to humans, if those who are able to have kids simply choose not to (for different reasons, like economic ones).

>> No.5505868

>>5505843
Eh, you got me there.

>>5505845
Then why does homosexuality in guppies increase just by putting a bunch of male guppies together? Are they all experiencing the same mental illness? Or, is this mental illness just not exhibited when around females?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000334720400291X

>> No.5505871

So you, OP, could also be satisfied.

>> No.5505881

>>5505868

Maybe they start fucking eachother cos they're desperate and develop a taste for it, like a man might after having prison sex.

>> No.5505891

>>5505881
But then that just goes along with reducing competition (and therefore conflict), not mental illness. Although both are genetic traits I guess.

>> No.5505888

>>5505881

PRISON SEX IS BEST SEX

>> No.5505894

>>5505807

>being this uninformed

Homosexuality has been documented in a huge variety of animal species, from bugs to lions.

>> No.5505895

>>5505868

But they still fuck the females. It's not homosexual behaviour itself which is the evolutionary mystery, it's the avoidance of heterosexual mating.

>> No.5505897

>>5505895
Did you not read?

Some of them chose to not fuck the females after, and still wanted to be homosex.

>> No.5505902

>>5505894

No, that's bisexuality which doesn't pose any evolutionary puzzle. You can mess around with the same sex but as long as you mate with the opposite sex you'll reproduce.

Exclusive homosexuality and the AVOIDANCE of heterosexuality has only been documented in one non human species, a type of ram.

>> No.5505918

If evolution is real, why do you have an appendix?

Stupid question.

>> No.5505924

>>5505918

Probably to repopulate the intestines with essential bacteria after a bad case of diarhea or someting.

>> No.5505923

>>5505685
if evolution is real why aren't we all turned into Super man ?

Science :0
sphaggetti monster: 9000+

>> No.5505927

>>5505868
>raising animals in highly unnatural enivironment
>observe them behaving abnormally
>hurr durr durr

>> No.5505931

> random mutations
> hormon variations
> variations in brain structure
> life is not perfect

>> No.5505941

>>5505700
There can be also a developmental explanation for this.

If the women with gay male relatives have more offspring than those without gay male relatives, maybe it's because they are more socially assertive and so increase their chances of finding mates. And then the same "genes" which make females assertive may make their male relatives subdued, that is they might intimidate the development of the males when they were kids.

And so, Freud might be proven right again, it's dominant females in their family (mothers, sisters, aunts) that make men gay. But now, it's more fashionable to talk about behaviour determined by genes...

>> No.5505964

You're all citing relevant cases of homosexuality, but only as it pertains to males. Does female homosexuality exist in nature? Or am I to assume that, if a species exhibits homosexual tendencies, then it goes without saying that both genders partake?

>> No.5505968

>>5505685
If gays are real why is there evolution?

Wouldn't that stop reproduction?

>> No.5505971

>>5505964
I think that it is rarer, but it does occasionally exist in nature.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/lesbian-albatrosses-to-raise-their-chick-1887658.html

>> No.5505972

>>5505931
who are you quoting?

>> No.5505998

>>5505685

Your concept of evolution needs to be modified because, in your understanding of evolution, gay people shouldn't exist. However, gay people do exist. Good science means you have to adjust the theory to fit the facts.
This is not to say evolutionary theory is wrong, but just that your understanding of evolutionary theory is incomplete.

>> No.5506005

>>5505998
tautology

>> No.5506063

>implying the majority of mutations are not harmful.
>implying homosexuality is not linked to womb environment, instead of genes.

>> No.5506074

>>5506063
Who's implying that? I must have missed that post.

>> No.5506080

>>5506074
OP.

>> No.5506083

>>5505685
>10-1000 years ago
>Dude is gay
>will get killed if he comes out
>pretends to be straight
>gets married
>wife/mother-in-law/local priest nags him for kids
>Gay guy has kids

So if you think about it, letting gays be gay is the best way to get rid of them. Everyone Wins!

>> No.5506102
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5506102

>>5506063
>Evolution creating a womb environment which leads to homosexuality
>Evolution's face

>> No.5506105

>>5506083
>Gay guy was already gay from a previous bigbang
>Evolution explained

>> No.5506108

Population getting too big, nature wants to keep us at bay.

>> No.5506109

>>5506108
Then it should be higher in China and non-existant 2000 years ago, according to this prediction.

>> No.5506129

The problem is people assume evolution is sentient with an agenda.

It isn't.

>> No.5506135

Members of a population that do not provide offspring may be selected for to benefit to the population as a whole. This is an indirect method of selection as they improve offspring of closely related family members as apposed to having offspring themselves.

A simple example is a worker bee.

There are some other alternatives, such as the causation that allow a male to be Gay may also induce increased sexual activities in females (Or vice versa). I believe I have seen some studies on this, but nothing entirely conclusive.

>> No.5506151

>>5506135
>r
Also population control may be a good place to start, the level of sexual iterations between opposite sex individuals is clearly important for the survival of a population. As such it is optimized via a process of evolution (if not the species will run into over/under population issues), and one of these population optimizations is likely the multiple variants of sexuality and the frequencies of each.

>> No.5506164

>>5506108
>nature wants

hahaha my sides

>> No.5506175

Of course all of this is assuming homosexuality is genetically based and not psychological.
Think about fetishes. Are fetishes genetic? No. Attraction towards something specific is essentially a fetish, thus not genetically passed on.

>> No.5506178
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5506178

Because there is a variation in the species and while being exclusivity homosexual is certainly an evolutionary misfire today it does not equal evolutionary failure since homosexuals can still produce their own offspring by for instance surrogate if they choose to do so. If he selection against it would be terminal one could think that the trait would become less common.

Also I don't think it is clear to what extend homosexuality is caused by genes or environment but one would guess it is a combination.

But we don't usually measure people by evolutionary success anyway.

>> No.5506190

>>5506175
>Are fetishes genetic? No.
That is a rather quick conclusion. What is the data or the concept behind this?

>> No.5506197

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/why-are-there-gay-men_n_1590501.html

There. Settled.

>> No.5506248

>>5505685

because the human body is fucking retarded.

if the mother is stressed during pregnancy, her physiology is so fucking retarded that it ASSUMES the stress is due to "oh shit there wont be enough food for the kid" so it changes the hormone balance and turns the kid into a faggot, so the kid wont reproduce, even though 99 fucking percent of the time the stress in the modern world is a result of retarded female bullshit like "oh crap maybe i shouldnt've trapped some poor bastard into paying me child support" and "why did i have to cheat with a nigger, if the kid comes out black i'm screwed"

so yeah, basically the body decides "huh? how can i fuck with this stupid bitch some more... I KNOW! ILL MAKE HER KID BE A FAGGOT!"

its just another reason why abortion should not only be legal, but encouraged for children who are not planned for and wanted. unless the parents are married and extremely happy about the prospect of having kids, they shouldnt be having kids.

>> No.5506255

>>5505798

you dont need faggots for that, why do you think neckbeards exist?

niggers in this thread best stop pretending that faggotry has a purpose.

faggotry is a developmental error, much like schizophrenia and depression. it serves no purpose other than to horribly mess up the lives and reproductive capability of the people afflicted by it

>> No.5506258

>>5506248
Tsk.

>> No.5506268

>>5506255
>implying evolution has a purpose

>> No.5506266

>>5506255
Tsk.

>> No.5506273

>>5506255
If you wish to call it an error you must first define the purpose it disturbs.

If you mean the evolutionary purpose of reproduction then one could say naively that you are right and it is a defect.

But at the same time a homosexual individual with a surrogate child is equally successful evolution-vise as a heterosexual individual with a single child.

>> No.5506274 [DELETED] 

>>5506258
Nigger.

>> No.5506278

>>5506258

did you put sage in the reply thing once and forget to remove it? or do you just hate every single thread you post in?

back on topic, hormones released by the mother during pregnancy is the current "best explanation" science can give us as to what causes homosexuality, since those hormones have the strongest effect on the neurological development of the child.

its how they explain the fact that, despite there being no "gay gene", lesbians have been brainscanned and been shown to have male brain structures, and fags have been scanned and shown to have female brain structures.

without a genetic cause, the only possible way this could occur is in the womb during gender differentiation, since those brain structures are solidified and unchangeable once the baby is born

>> No.5506287

>>5506273

natural reproduction and the passing along of one's genes. its alot harder to get a bitch pregnant if she has to rape you to get your jizz.

there is an evolutionary benefit for the mother, less mouths to feed and a child that will likely be murdered by their tribe. no benefit whatsoever for the child.

its unfathomably fucked up to be honest... stupid whore of a mother turns the kid gay because she's too stressed during the pregnancy about fucking niggers, and then, in keeping with "JAYZUHS!" she disowns the kid for being a faggot.

>> No.5506288

>>5506278
>implying that we already know everything there is to know about the genetics of brain development.

>> No.5506290

>>5506288

so you're saying its genetic?

funny, it must be caused by HUNDREDS of genes then, because scientists have found NO GENETIC CORRELATION WHATSOEVER with sexual preference.

we dont know everything about the genetics of brain development, but thanks to hundreds of years of cutting open fetuses and dead newborns, we have a pretty fucking good idea of what a male brain looks like and what a female brain looks like. and that DOES have a strong correlation with sexual preference.

>> No.5506292

>>5506287
Anon is butthurt about discovering he's gay and is looking for someone to blame.

>> No.5506302

>>5506290

I'll take polygenic traits for a thousand, please, Alex.

Also, citation please.

>> No.5506306

>>5506290
> implying that we know everything there is to know about brain development in general.

>> No.5506314
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5506314

>>5506292

3edgy5me

>faggot butthurt about being told why he's a faggot
>sages the thread
>accuses the other guy of being gay
>sages the thread
>4chan

did you put sage in the reply thing once and forget to remove it? or do you just hate every single thread you post in?

>if you answer no then it means you're butthurt about faggotry being discused, and butthurt about other people's opinions, the only explanation for which is that you're a faggot
>if you answer yes then you're a faggot for saging all the threads you reply to

>> No.5506320

>>5506314

u mad bro? did I touch a nerve?

>> No.5506326

>>5506287
Tsk.

>> No.5506331
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5506331

>>5506302

citations? for someone who uses "oh you must be a faggot!" as an argument tactic?

>HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
>is this nigga serious.jpg

i've been trolling since you were in diapers, kid

so yeah. about 2 weeks.

>> No.5506335

>>5506320

yes, as someone who is proud of my own feats of trolling, it saddens me to see someone doing so poorly at it.

you should go back to camwhoring, faggot.

you do not belong in /sci/

>> No.5506342

>>5506335
>>5506331

>attacks the individual because he can't attack the argument.

>> No.5506354

>>5506342

see:

>>5506292


have fun replying to yourself, faggot. this thread could have been a nice rational discussion if it wasnt for you.

you are why we cant have nice things.

and seriously, whats with the sage?
do discussions of faggotry piss you off or something?

>> No.5506358

>>5506354

I sincerely hope that you can come to terms with your homosexuality. Nobody really knows the biological basis of human sexual behaviour, homo or hetero. All your reasoning is just conjecture, trying to fit facts to your theory or ideology instead of the other way round, and that's not science.

Have fun!
Love,
Anon

>> No.5506383

>>5506331
>kid

madd detected

>> No.5506400

Most recent research suggests its epigenetics. Protein markers that control which genes are expressed are passed down from both parents to the offspring. This is quasi-lamarckism and its totally real. Evidence suggests homosexuality is the result of protein markers that control genes in X or Y getting mixed up. Makes sense, statistically any population has twice as many gays as lesbians and this is explained by Xs being twice as common as Y

>> No.5506464

>>5506400
Epigenetics: this will be true for some, but the genes for it will be distributed over the autosomes as well as the sex chromosomes. Also, the thing about X's being twice as common as Y's would suggest twice as many lesbians as gays, which is not seen.

>> No.5506509

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

>> No.5506749

>>5505733
Nah, that just means you want to assert your dominance over her. Its quite normal.

>> No.5506758

>>5506464
>Also, the thing about X's being twice as common as Y's would suggest twice as many lesbians as gays, which is not seen.

The control genes are mixed. So X controller gets passed to Y.

>> No.5506759

>>5506400
interesting, thanks

>> No.5506761
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5506761

>>5505685
>if evolution is real why does downs syndrome exist?

this is your answer, a biological answer, like autism and such.

>> No.5506792

>>5505829
I don't find women repulsive. Their bodies are just benign to me. Its like trying to get horny looking at a chalk eraser or a soup can.

>> No.5506846

>>5506758
control genes for physical sexual dimorphism lie on the sex chromosomes, but there's no master controller for sexual behaviour. also it sounds like you're describing a translocation event rather than an epigenetic modification, in which case you'd have much more serious problems than having a minority sexuality.

>> No.5506971

>>5506761
why do downs kid all look the same.

>> No.5506998

>>5505685
Why don't you tell us, OP? You're a fag, after all, right? Please don't drag this discussion out by denying that you love to suck cock, swallow cum.

>> No.5506994

>>5506971
It's all the same genetic change, trisomy 21. Which of the 250 genes on chromosome 21 are responsible for the facial appearance? Nobody knows yet. Check "partial trisomy 21" and "Down Syndrome Critical Region" for more insight.

>> No.5506995

>>5505685
If evolution is real, then why do you exist?

>> No.5507025

>>5505798
>http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/
What I have deduced from this is the fact that sisters contain more of your genes than children. Sister's of homosexual males are more fertile so maybe it is of a genetic advantage for them to behave altruistically in order to help raise the offspring. It could be something to do with the fertility of siblings.

>> No.5507033

>>5505685
I <3 cock gene?

>> No.5507042

>>5506971
why do some asians look like they have down syndrome but act normal?

>> No.5507048

>>5506102
happens

evolution does not have to have success every single time, evolution is just the general trend of "movement"

>> No.5507046

>>5507025
This! Thank you! Finally!
I love you anon!

>> No.5507054

>>5506083
10 years ago?

>> No.5507070

>>5507042
Epicanthal folds. Down Syndrome children used to be called "Mongoloid", referencing the Asian appearance (to Europeans).

>> No.5507094

If evolution isn't real, why do some people have 6 fingers on one hand?

Please, without pretending you know how god thinks (this is a sin), answer this.

>> No.5507115

>Implying genes can't have multiple effects
>Implying homosexuality is caused exclusively by genetics
>Implying every gay will never think about fucking a woman
>Implying gays haven't been forced to conform to social conventions throughout history

>> No.5507132

...round and round we go...