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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5487599 No.5487599[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Free Will.
As of our current knowledge of physics etc.
Is free will possible?

Is everything predetermined from the beginning of the universe by physical laws?
Quantum mechanics - as far as i know, it wouldn't prove free will because it's chaotic.

>> No.5487609

>>5487599
Goes to the extent that if freewill does exist it determines quark spin and well if "Freewill" does exist then eventually you could will whole atoms, the rabits! then the whole forrest! you could have the wildlife fight back and be like Aqua man but smoking treebark instead of fishfart in their spare time

>> No.5487623

Every matter in the universe are set in motion by their parent events. We are just another matter. Claiming humans have special properties other than matter means you believe in souls and magic.

>> No.5487631

>>5487623
Understood.
However, what if it is possible to "change" this order with intense focus and will, which animals are not quite capable to do.

>> No.5487641

>>5487599
For free will to exist there first has to be an individuum that is defined by nature, not my man. But the only individdum defined by nature is the smallest particle.

Humans don't "exist". Humans are a bunch of chemical reactions. The particles within these reactions exist. Humans are just the result.

But did you ever think about if a carbon atom has free will?

>> No.5487648

>>5487641
Okay. I've read some about quantum mechanics and such. How far can quantum mechanics go in a sense of providing some sort of proof for free will?

>> No.5487660

>>5487648
Not at all. For free will there has to be something that controls these quanta. But these quanta are not controlled.

But we don't even need quantum mechanics to defy free will, it is just logical. Can you want to want something? Yes, you can "force" yourself to want something, but even if you try it right now it is just a causal result of the sentence I just wrote. You did not decide to try to want wanting something.

>> No.5487666
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5487666

/sci/ sure loves metaphysics

>> No.5487673

>>5487660
A friend of mine proposed an idea.
He gave way that quanta can be controlled by what we call the soul, which give us some free will, not control over anything, but some control over what that certain individual thinks. Of course it's another theory which may or may not be true at all

Haven't there been laboratory tests, where quantas have been in controlled states, using lasers?

>> No.5487683

http://www.quantumphil.org/SuarezRandFinQM

Something i found from the web some time ago.
Can anyone say if there is anything worth in that research?

>> No.5487684

It's kind of impossible to know at this point. Maybe when we have sufficiently advanced technology, we'll be able to observe the absolute smallest units of matter, have complete understanding of all the forces at work in the universe, and have the ability to determine exactly what happened and will happen according to the laws of the universe.
You see the future, you choose to do something different, and bam! Free will!

>> No.5487716

>>5487673
I wonder what word they'll use if there's any validity to that. I think "soul" is a little too loaded with supernatural implications.

>> No.5487747

/sci/ will always be shit

>> No.5487754

>>5487599
>>>/lit/

>> No.5487758

Quantum mechanics speaks of quantum events occurring by probability. As in there's only a chance of an event happening. There are no finite results.

>> No.5487765

ever heard someone say "that's just the way i was raised"
or heard them explain what preceded a decision?
everyone has an intuitive understanding of determinism, free will is an absurd concept
it's ridiculous that this is still up for debate

>> No.5487769

>>5487673
>quanta can be controlled by what we call the soul
cool evidence, bro

>> No.5487807

>Is everything predetermined from the beginning of the universe by physical laws?
In the sense that everything that followed was possible, whether it was likely or not, yeah.

>Quantum mechanics - as far as i know, it wouldn't prove free will because it's chaotic.
Chaos theory applies to the classical physics world.

>> No.5487837

If free will doesn't exist, why do we punish criminals?

>> No.5487854

>>5487837
Because it prevents them (and others) from doing it again. It influences their will. Because while free will is retarded, will does exist.

>> No.5487889

>>5487854
How do I understand my will then, obviously it is not whatever I think I want but there is some influence of it so how could I critically examine those influences to become more familiar with the reasons?

>> No.5487896

>>5487758
>finite results
I think you mean determenistic.

>>5487889
Not the guy you were talking to, but Vipassanā is one method.

>> No.5487914
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5487914

>Is free will possible?
It depends on the definition of free will that you use.

>> No.5487944

>>5487837
Because we are determined to do it. Duh.

>> No.5487947

>>5487599
Free will exists because quantum interactions are unpredictable. /thread

>> No.5487950

>>5487947
>argument from ignorance

>> No.5488078

>>5487950

>implying we have enough matter to calculate all quantum fluctuations in the world
>implying we could create a computer that doesn't have quantum fluctuations within itself
>implying Heisenberg was wrong.
>implying 100 years of quantum theory and probability distributions of electrons are wrong