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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5473395 No.5473395 [Reply] [Original]

Can anyone explain to me how time didn't exist
before the Big Bang? If time didn't exist before the Big Bang, then space-time wouldn't exist. If space-time didn't exist before the Big Bang then
there is no way the Big Bang could've happened because no space-time = no universe. If time didn't exist before the Big Bang that wouldn't make any sense because the Big
Bang was an event. The whole "Time didn't
exist before the Big Bang hurr durr" is fucking paradoxical.

>> No.5473407

Did someone actually state that time didn't exist, or did they mean to say "We don't know what happened before the big bang because the laws of physics were probably different than what we see in the observable universe now."?

>> No.5473409

Probably for practical reasons, that's the most appropriate zero-point we can use.
We have to pick some POINT in time to start the clock or we'd be stuck due to your (presumably correct) technicality.

Probably some other in favor of this as well.

>> No.5473411

The universe was all in one state with no vacuum so space time wouldn't exist as there was nothing for gravity to warp.

>> No.5473412

>>5473395
I can only assume you're referring to the typical Cosmological Argument(s) for the existence of "god." In such a case, have a good day at >>>/x/

>> No.5473423

>>5473407

No. I got it from Stephen Hawkings. He said that time didn't exist before the Big Bang...

>>5473411

That makes no sense. If space-time didn't exist neither did the universe.

>>5473412

No.

>> No.5473533

Just accept that there are some things we can't wrap our minds around.

Time is a product of the big bang, that's all there is to it.

>> No.5473543

Our whole universe was in a hot dense state,
Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started.

>> No.5473564

>>5473395
OP think hyper density caused by existing being pulled onto itself and within wanting to drive away from others like itself

>> No.5473569

>>5473543
And then we killed the faggot that posted such faggotry

>> No.5473578

Im quite surprised that no one named Roger Penrose yet.

I was at one of his lectures in which he talked about this topic.

Without going into detail he explained to us that there has to be more than just "one time".

There might be one flow of time that we can measure in our universe but another "global" time in the background.

As soon as your "problem" occurs it's not a problem anymore because we have the "global time". Just read some of his articles it will help you.

Also:
>>5473533
Don't listen to this retard he has no clue what he's talking about.

>> No.5473602

>>5473423

Where did Stephen Hawing say this?

>> No.5473611

What Hawking terms as "time" refers to the measurement of movement in relative points of space or in matter or energy i.e. things we can measure the motion of. If none of these things exists, then time is no longer measurable. The "time" outside of existence could be thought of as zeroxtime and infinityxtime being equal. There is just one moment, nothing more, as long as there is nothing to measure.

>> No.5473613

>>5473602
brief history of time

no idea if he also published in scientifically, so to speak

>> No.5473621

>>5473407
It's not even up for debate. Assuming the Big Bang, a consequence of that is that time did not exist. Even further really, via the big bang theory (combined with the physics we've established as true, thus far) time MUST not exist before the Big Bang for it to be a cogent theory.

Anyway, getting to OP's point. You simply don't understand time, logic and the universe well enough. The first thing to "happen" was the big bang, that's the point. Well that's technically inaccurate, but accuracy would just confuse the matter at hand.

You should read "A Universe from Nothing" by Laurence Krauss, might help answer some of your questions.

>> No.5473651

Related, features the quote in question and an explanation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time#Time_and_the_Big_Bang

>> No.5473713
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5473713

>>5473395

>> No.5473718

The idea was that the universe was in a singularity. Because the universe is space-time, the two are linked. If it is in a singularity, there is nowhere in the dimensions of space or the dimension of time for anything to go or to exist as it is in one single point.

It makes a lot more sense when you see space and time as one, space-time.

>> No.5473744

Don't forget that the Bigbang idea is a hypothesis not entirely proven. Whatever empirical support there is based on the observation that the universe is expanding. But if the universe is expanding for different reasons than an initial bigbang and it wasn't always doing so, then it's possible there wasn't any bigbang and it's all just an assumption based on indirect evidence.

>> No.5473750

The big bang is pretty well proven, just take a look at the background microwave radiation throughout the universe and that the universe is expanding. It may be wrong, but current evidence points towards it.

>> No.5473776

>>5473750
I won't believe it until we can test that the universe is indeed isotropic and earth observations are not just extrapolated laws which apply to a small corner of the universe. It will be quite some time before we can test this outside our galaxy.

>> No.5473784

>>5473776
But until that point the big bang is our best theory. We're open to new ideas but only ideas that agree with experiments and evidence and logic.

>> No.5473827

The Big Bang is simply a placeholder name for something that began the expansion event we see manifesting itself as the universe.

Our equations break down the closer we get to the singularity, hence there was no time 'as we understand time now'. That doesn't mean there was no time, just that the manner in which we understand time at the moment by means of mathematics breaks down at the singularity.

>> No.5473831

>>5473827
What equation are you talking about?

>> No.5473841

>>5473827
The way I understand it, it's about reconciling gravity with the other forces. Reconciling the quantum world with that of the relativistic world.

Feel free to correct me.

>> No.5473858

Time is a dimension and because it's a dimension it can't be fully conceived by human minds. The Big Bang really dosen't make sense ether as it's just a repress/supress and repeat theory. Basically the Big Bang says that energy got so compressed and it just exploded. ( how did the energy get compressed? what made it become compressed?) In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth and time theoretically has always been around. Christian here and a former long time Atheist.

>> No.5473878

>>5473858
No matter what your beliefs are now or have been before, you have clearly been both ignorant and retarded your entire life. Even a babby pop-sci book would seem like graduate level material in comparison to the shit you just typed out.

>> No.5473880

>>5473841
Please post the equations.

>> No.5473902

>>5473395
Time is a thing made up by humans. It isn't a 'thing' and in fact doesn't really 'exist'. So the idea of time didn't exist before that because we have no point of measurement that we can compare it to, such as a period of something for example.

>> No.5473905

>>5473880
Oh I see, because I posted 'our'.
Go be a pedant elsewhere.

>> No.5473930

>>5473905
No, not because you said "our". You talked about equations. i want to know what equations you were talking about.

>> No.5473953

>>5473930
I don't have them, no idea what they are either.
They are the equations that describe gravitational fields, and the interaction between the Electromagnetic, Weak and strong nuclear forces.

>> No.5473961

>>5473953
You do not know the equations? Yet you think you are qualified to talk about the topic? Why? Because you watched a silly pop sci show for high schoolers? Your kind of retarded pseudo-intellectualism is the cancer of this board. If you are lacking the education to talk about a topic in a scientific manner, then shut the fuck up. Don't use a tripcode and don't show off your ignorance fucking everywhere. Stop shitting up our science board with worthless underaged stupidity.

>> No.5473966

simply put OP, when we break it down and look at the conditions during the beginning of the big bang, ie all of the universe compact into a dot, the laws of physics simply cease to make sense in the same way they cease to make sense inside the event horizons of black holes

as far as WHY, well then you're going to have to do a lot of reading

>> No.5473982

OP, imagine this:
Take a 10x10 grid and label the x-axis time and the y-axis space. Imagine the grid compresssing so that the distance between two points gets smaller and smaller. Finally after enough compressing, the distance between any two points is zero. Now, given this, find the x-axis.

>> No.5474003
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5474003

>>5473961
Qualified?
I must have missed the registration where we all submitted out PhDs.

I had no idea people took the internet this seriously. If you don't like what I'm saying, ignore me. It isn't difficult. Do you pass by people in the street talking about the latest mission to mars and butt in with 'well ACTUALLY you didn't build the mars rover, nor do you have a physics degree, so you're not qualified to talk on the subject herp derp.'?

>> No.5474021

>>5473961
Do you think the people on /sci/ are phds in their respective fields?

>> No.5474035

>>5474003
I do.

>> No.5474042

>>5474035
Me too.

>> No.5474046
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5474046

>>5474035
>>5474042

Well, I believe I just got told.
Excellent.

>> No.5474054

>>5474003
This is a SCIENCE board and when talking about SCIENCE it's pretty easy to find out if someone doesn't know shit. As a tripcode user you are expected to post informative high quality comments. You failed to do so. You posted ignorant teenager wannabe pop sci drivel. You are neither qualified to post in this ITT nor to have a tripcode.

>> No.5474092

>>5474054
This is a science and mathematics INTEREST board. If there was some part of my post that was completely wrong or misinformed, please explain it to me so I can learn. Instead of doing this you've bitched at me for the simple nature of my science and mathematics related post.

Now, if you'd care to actually contribute to the understanding of myself and others on this board, feel free to. If not, please refrain from shouting at me because you have more knowledge than I do of a particular subject.

Thank you.

>> No.5474100

>potentially good physics thread
>derailed by a shitposting pop sci tripfag
*sigh*

/sci/ will always be shit

>> No.5474109

>>5474092
Why do you talk about things you don't understand? Why do you do so while using a tripcode? Why do you think an uneducated high schooler needs a permanent tripcode identity on an anonymous science board? You are shitting up this place. Please leave.

>> No.5474316

>>5473621
Does anyone really understand time, logic and the universe well enough to make your statements so categorically? Any observations? testable hypotheses that prove/disprove the point? If not, you're making "facts" fit the theory & not the theory fitting facts.

>> No.5474318

>>5473613
maybe Stephen Hawking wanted to make that point, as it is, to laypeople, in order not to confuse the issue.

>> No.5474338

>>5473744
This is the right answer.

>> No.5474344

>>5474109
This. No one should talk about anything they don't understand 100%.

Hopefully only physicists will actually chime in instead of retard arts majors.

>> No.5474362

How can time have existed forever?

>> No.5475195

I actually surprised by the amount of shit people tell here and how little they know about the big bang.

>>5473533
>>5473750
And similar posts gave me cancer.

>> No.5475232

something has always existed.... there now fuck off and figure out something worth figuring out.

>> No.5475299

>>5475195
Your pseudo-intellectualism is giving me cancer. If you think you know anything about the topic, how about you post it? Oh wait, you don't know shit. You're just another pop sci high school retard regurgitating empty redditor buzzword phrases.