/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.5442593]

its very sad for the mankind ghat human spaceflight has not advanced since the 70ths. The new NASA MPCV is proof of that. We will not touch Mars before 2050

[Anonymous No.5442597]

Why is it sad? Did you have some grand destiny laid out for you by science fiction and the world refused to accommodate?

Aww, santa lied.

We only went to the moon to beat the Russians. We won't be going back.

Sorry that you believed that science fiction was a documentary. watch the new judge dredd to get an idea of what the future will probably look like, apocalypse or no.

[Anonymous No.5442611]

>Earth is overpopulated
>Move massive quantities out, or start killing
It's simple, really.

[Anonymous No.5442624]

>>5442611

Nope. Just increase the population density. The earth can house over a trillion people if the world had the same population density as manhattan.

But then you would get judge dredd problems like a building containing 75,000 people with no where near the police force required over a city of 800 million.

We're going to enjoy the same fate as the denizens of St. Matthew Island.

[Anonymous No.5442637]

>>5442624
>resources
>scarcity
Good luck.

[Anonymous No.5442639]

>no advancement

i bet the gubments is reverse engineering the alien tech from roswell still

[Anonymous No.5442650]

>>5442637

I never said it was sustainable. Hence why i referenced st. matthew island.

Only kids drunk on sci-fi and sagan believe our species will exist forever.

[Anonymous No.5442700]

>>5442593
>We will not touch Mars before 2050
Me and the rest of the human race could care less. Space exploration is an expensive luxury better done by robotic probe. Earth is and should be our main focus for decades to come.

[Anonymous No.5442717]

>>5442700
>could care less
>could
>implying you care at least a little bit, but at most an infinite amount
>implying exactly the opposite of what you were trying to say

[Anonymous No.5442786]

>>5442700
read that yo. image if the europeans said " no columbus, we cant let you go to explore the oceans to find a short traderout to india, first we have to fix our problems here "

[Anonymous No.5442798]

>>5442786

>implying this is in anyway a similar circumstance

Ah, the delusions of space enthusiasts.

[Anonymous No.5442799]

>>5442786

There is money to be made in a trade route between earth and mars? What natives are making expensive textiles on mars?

[Anonymous No.5442802]

>>5442799
> earth has infinite resources
> mars is only a rock without any elements

[Anonymous No.5442809]

>>5442802
I want to go to Mars just as much as you (and I'm not the guy you replied to) but space flight is fucking expensive. So unless you find a way to mine rocket fuel on Mars or its moons, bringing enough shit back to sell would burn more money than it would earn.

[Anonymous No.5442812]

>human spaceflight has not advanced since the 70ths.
except it has

>We will not touch Mars before 2050
there are more pressing problems and it's not necessary to go

[Anonymous No.5442828]

>>5442802

>we've never brought back even dust from mars, but let's just bring back millions of tons of ore!

That wasn't the point. There was trading to be done with another NATION on the other side of the atlantic, as they thought. There was nothing but profit to be made.

Mars is in no way equivalent. The Santa Maria did not need to carry it's own oxygen.

[Anonymous No.5442830]

No Mars by 2050 is probably true, which is why, instead of stating how impossible it is over and over, we have to begin by doing research on cheap ways of getting materials into space.

It's the research that Tsiolkovskiy was doing, except once we figured out rockets (the most expensive method), we immediately deserted everything else.

>Tl;dr rev up those space elevators and rail guns

[Anonymous No.5442842]

>>5442830

Rockets are the only feasible idea. Railguns destroy whatever they launch, and space elevators are physically impossible.

Sorry that star trek will never be possible. Get used to it.

By the way, we did design a system to go to mars. We have the technology almost ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUBhn3_P3hU

But, we decided it was too costly.

So technology really isn't the problem here, it's that mankind only commits large resources to War, Greed, and Ego. Never Science, unless that science appeals to one of the three, like Apollo.

[Anonymous No.5442848]

>>5442593
> We will not touch Mars before 2050

We're never putting a Human on Mars. That bill is officially 230 billion dollars. There's no budget in any nation to cover that. So it just won't happen. Ever.

Because we're only going to be gearing up to wage the Resource Wars, largely over petroleum, and those will morph and mutate into the Last War. Human spaceflight will utterly cease by 2100 AD, never to restart.

That's what logically happens when you have a race of Violent Simians instead of a real advanced lifeform.

[Anonymous No.5442857]

>>5442842
Space elevators and railguns did indeed turn out to be impractical.
But you have to admit, there are more possible solutions, some of which would be less expensive. It's time to sit back and think. Go back to the drawing board.

[Anonymous No.5442864]

>>5442830
> once we figured out rockets (the most expensive method), we immediately deserted everything else

Because rockets served war, not science. More precisely, rockets served war and its wealthy manufacturers who support war through sales.

The other poster >>5442842 is totally correct. Human actions are dictated by base instincts, not higher reasoning. We don't establish a real Human presence in space since there's no market for it. We blow through money anyway here on Earth, paying off the military-industrialists, and then we allow everything they build for us get either destroyed or thrown away, so that we have to buy it all again if we want to repeat the feat. Just imagine how expensive it would be to live as a commuter if you HAD TO throw away your car every month.

Conquer economics and you can lead Humanity into that glorious envisioned space age. Until you do, we're going to continue to hang around on Earth, further depleting irreplaceable fossil fuels, until we're killing each other over grain.

[Anonymous No.5442867]

>>5442857
thats what i mean. todays spacetravel is based on a idea by Werner van Braun who build rockets for the Nazis and later for America and the Nasa. All those fuelrocket that we have today and fancy animated videos are all based on a idea from 1944

[Anonymous No.5442871]

>>5442857
> Go back to the drawing board.

No, retard. That's part of the scam. We keep paying people to plan and design and prepare, and then nothing sensible EVER results from it. We have far too many scientists than engineers, and far too many engineers than technicians, and far too many technicians than laborers. Our entire system of space access is absurdly top heavy. It can't accomplish DICK but ensure it's own stream of paychecks.

[Anonymous No.5442874]

>>5442864

If you remove economics, you remove a large part of humanity's motivation to do anything.

You'd only have War and Ego at that point. Shit, Greed balances the two out.

And there are no alternatives to rockets. Not now, Not ever.

[Anonymous No.5442875]

>>5442650
>kids drunk on sci-fi

funny thing. this is what we were thinking 25 years ago when we were talking about music, art, communications and shit.

stay classy underager.

[Anonymous No.5442880]

>>5442867
The implementation yes, however the idea comes from Verne and Tsiolkovskiy

>>5442864
This is so true, it makes me want to kill myself now. HOWEVER, most people do have a certain affinity for conquering other worlds, and the colonization of space itself. And that emotional response could be manipulated.

[Anonymous No.5442884]

>>5442875

Oh yeah! and look at how EVERYTHING changed!

Oh, wait. You mean smartphones that make people stupid? Oh yeah. Put that up there with the digital watch.

[Anonymous No.5442885]

>>5442871
But let me guess, you have no other solution to propose.

[Anonymous No.5442887]

>>5442880

So you're saying you hate humanity because we only do things for war, but you're fine with humanity only doing things for greed and ego?

You'd best just kill yourself now if you can't live with the hard fact that nobody gives a shit about the future.

[Anonymous No.5442893]

>>5442871

Private sector can't even get half it's payload into orbit.

So i guess we're screwed until someone discovers space gold and space diamonds AND a method of getting them that is cheaper than digging them from the earth.

Oh wait, that's logistically impossible.

I guess we're screwed then. Doomed to live the same terrestrial existence that every other human has had to live.

How awful.

[Anonymous No.5442900]

If your grandfather is still alive ask him what things were like 50 years ago, then 75 years ago, then when he was a boy. That should put time into perspective your you. Mars in my lifetime is more than possible. Hell we learned to fly not too long ago.

[Anonymous No.5442911]

>>5442809
considering that an effective fuel mix for laving Mars and returning to earth is LOX and Liquid Hydrogen, I think we can actually manufacture that on Mars.

There's actually quite a lot of water at the poles.

[Anonymous No.5442913]

>>5442900

>50 years ago

We went to the Moon.

We never went back. There are economic forces that drove the Iphone. All of the things you think makes this the better future were driven purely by profit.

You're just a fool led by the talking heads of science who make money telling fools what they want to hear.

[Anonymous No.5442916]

>>5442911

Good luck making the refining equipment light enough and resilient enough to last 500+ days on mars.

[Anonymous No.5442932]

>>5442916
It's the same equipment you'd need for solar panels to provide oxygen.

You're just capturing the hydrogen you get from the water too.

[Anonymous No.5442975]

>>5442885
> But let me guess, you have no other solution to propose.

Correct, since no solution exists. There is no economic model that allows Humanity to expand into space to live, work and play. The only economic models that exist, support destroying or otherwise wasting space vehicles and equipment just to make rich industrialists even richer. That builds precisely ZERO sustainable, reusable, affordable space-access infrastructure. Like I said, if commuters had to throw away their cars every month, only the rich would commute.

Humans are just Violent Simians. Their animal natures preclude solutions as you envision. You nerds can't rule anything; fuck, you can't even rule yourselves.

[Anonymous No.5442978]

>>5442900
> Mars in my lifetime is more than possible.

PHYSICALLY possible, yes. ECONOMICALLY possible, no. Just: NO.

The rest of this century will see Humanity withdraw from spaceflight in order to gear up to wage the Resource Wars, largely for the remaining large oil fields.

[Anonymous No.5442984]

Does anyone know where to get this as a .epub , .pdf, or other extensions for my Kindle??
http://www.amazon.com/Off-Planet-Surviving-Perilous-Station/dp/007136112X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358296620&sr=8-1&keywords=off+the+planet
I already searched TPB

[Anonymous No.5442990]

>>5442593
We are touching Mars right now, with Curiosity and Endeavor, backed up by several satellites. Sounds pretty advanced to me.

Going places in person is so pre-internet.

[Anonymous No.5442998]

>>5442900
70 years ago the United States won a war which destroyed the production capacity of every other developed nation on earth. By its peak around 1960 the US was 75% of the world's export economy. 75% the money from all the world's international trade was flowing into America's coffers.

China, by comparison, controls 20% of the export economy today.

With much of the world's wealth at our command yes, we did manage to waste a big pile of it going to the Moon. We also built an enormous nuclear arsenal and launch capabilities that are now desperately out of date.

That day is over. Today our money flows out, not in. We cannot afford to put the rest of our national goals on hold to throw men into space. It's an economically absurd activity.

[Anonymous No.5443000]

>>5442990
Except right now Curiosity is being a little bitch about finding anything earth-shattering (see what I did thar?)

[Anonymous No.5443006]

>>5442978
>in order to gear up to wage the Resource Wars, largely for the remaining large oil fields.

Olduvaifag detected. There isn't one single alternative energy source which can replace oil, but all of them together is a different story.

[Anonymous No.5443013]

>>5442998
There's no reason to go to space. It's a bleak, desolate, destructive environment with no air and no hope. The future of our species is on this planet, the one on which we are evolutionarily suited to live. It is full of food, water, and companionship.

The fact that we haven't figured out how to live here indefinitely while simultaneously increasing our population at exponential rates is the important problem, not figuring out how to jump into cold, worthless vacuum.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/10/why-not-space/

[Anonymous No.5443017]

>>5443006

All of them together is far too costly and will result in a severe curtailing of luxuries.

>>5443000
Doesn't stop people from shitting their pants and going ALIUMS! whenever it stumbles across a piece of its own plastic.

[Anonymous No.5443018]

>>5442978

ECONOMICALLY possible, yes, easily. you could do if for less than half of the US annual military budget. (assuming cost to mars around $300bn)

POLITICALLY possible, no.

also you're ignoring other countries existing on this planet but we'll gloss over that.

[Anonymous No.5443021]

>>5442990
You fail to realize the human brain and the human body are still vastly superior to the computer processor and the robotic system. This applies especially in exploration of and in a dangerous environment.

[Anonymous No.5443022]

>>5443018

Having the money allocated to other things and being economically possible are two different things.

We need those war funds. Lot of useful R&D comes out of it.

[Anonymous No.5443025]

>>5443021

You fail to realize that the human brain and human body are logistical nightmares that quadruple the cost of any mission.

Not to mention that the humans have to come back, while the robots don't.

Space will never be anything more than a curiosity.

[Anonymous No.5443027]

>>5443018
We visited the moon for about three years, then we threw the whole project away. Literally in some cases: The plans for the Saturn V rocket were destroyed because every organization which owned a copy thought theirs was the redundant one.

Going to the moon was a useless waste of money. A glorious, inspiring, heartwarming useless waste of money. Mars would be a waste of more money, and even if we broke the back of our military to do it... we'd abandon our Mars base within a few years once it was obvious that there was NOTHING PRODUCTIVE TO DO THERE. People got bored of the moon landings. They're bored of the Mars rovers.

They'll want their money doing more productive things. Like fighting militant Islam.

[Anonymous No.5443042]

>>5443025
Even if we had some cheap, easy way to reach space and travel around it... it would rapidly become the new third world. Even Antarctica is more comfortably habitable. After the fantasy fades, the only people employed in space would be folks who couldn't live anywhere else. It would become medically impossible for them ever to return to Earth, and heaven forbid they actually have children out there.

Poor, desperate people willing to sacrifice their lives for money... to live in a cold, empty void on the edge of nowhere.

[Anonymous No.5443044]

>>5443025
I think some people were planning to mine asteroids. If that happens then space becomes a mine of wealth.

[Anonymous No.5443051]

>>5443044
Only if it costs less to mine than it's worth to sell.

[Anonymous No.5443059]

>>5443044
no, some people are planning to *prospect* asteroids remotely, using cheap LEO telescopes. If something promising is found, a robotic probe would be sent to take a closer look. That covers the first several decades of their business plan. How to mine and extract isn't in the plan yet. The most practical method would probably still be robotic, especially after another several decades of advances.

[Anonymous No.5443070]

>>5443051
What if we find a lot of plutonium, put the asteroids in orbit, install a few massive nuclear powerplants. Turn them on, transport the energy towards Earth though EM waves?

[Anonymous No.5443080]

>>5443070
Nuclear power plants are problematic in space since they create so much heat and heat is so difficult to dissipate. Also mining plutonium from asteroids is (for all intents and purposes) as economically viable as extracting dissolved plutonium from sea water.

[Anonymous No.5443083]

>>5443070

Then plutonium becomes worthless and the company learns this before even starting production and just doesn't do it.

Why in god's name would you spend all the money to get a nuclear power plant into orbit just to send the energy back down to earth again? Nuclear reactors are barely cost effective on the ground.

What, did you think it was just ironic that billionaire playboys with a lot of money to throw away were the only ones to try?

[Anonymous No.5443082]

>>5443051
We could use the 700 B military budget to get so many resources and use them to make enemies (lol do we have any? really?) happy about their lives and stop being threats, thus negating the need for military spending.

I know it is unrealistic now because of the stupidity and inefficiency of the human race but with today's number the space program would effectively be 40 times more funded, more effective.

[Anonymous No.5443086]

>>5443082

It's not about fighting our enemies. It's about controlling the world.

>I know it is unrealistic now because of the stupidity and inefficiency of the human race but with today's number the space program would effectively be 40 times more funded, more effective.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? How is funding supposed to change the fact that the average IQ in the world is less than 100?

[Anonymous No.5443095]

>>5443086
Isn't cost the main limit of space exploration?

>it's about controlling the world
lel gf victimizing the middle east at 700 bn per year (spoiler: it isn't working as a control tool)

[Anonymous No.5443097]

>>5442611
>Move massive quantities out
Hate to break it to you, but human lives aren't valuable enough to just ship en masse.

Space flight is not a solution for overpopulation, and it never will be.

[Anonymous No.5443098]

Manned spaceflight is still possible, after the Challenger explosion the USA started a black project called blackstar to make a replacement space plane.

[Anonymous No.5443106]

>>5443098
Can I work for you? I can engineer.

[Anonymous No.5443111]

>>5443106
You will be contacted soon. Do not talk to anyone. Cleanup.

[Anonymous No.5443116]

>>5443095

Not the cost, but justifying the cost. If we took all the money from the war effort, we should spend it on making sure medicare and social security will exist when we get old and when our children get old. Put it towards getting everyone a college education so we will actually have the intelligent and qualified people to make a space industry more than a niche.

>blah blah blah i don't understand the world

Oh right. it costs 700 billion JUST to attack the middle east. Right.

While you bitch about gas prices being to high.

[Anonymous No.5443117]

>>5443086
>the average IQ in the world is less than 100

u wot m8

An IQ of 100 is by fucking definition the average IQ.

[Anonymous No.5443122]

>>5443117

Right. The world is below average.

[Anonymous No.5443131]

>>5443122

aleins?!??11??

[Anonymous No.5443137]

>>5442786

imagine if columbus never went?

HOLY SHIT THE INDIANS WERENT EXTERMINATED. NO SLAVERY, NO WHITEYS IN AMERICA

humanity is a disease that must be first neutralised before it can spread to the stars

[Anonymous No.5443141]

>>5443137
>humanity is a disease that must be first neutralised (sic) before it can spread to the stars

so brave. what is this, 1999?

[Anonymous No.5443139]

>>5443095
Implying it's not the world that is controlling the U.S.A.

[Anonymous No.5443144]

>>5443122
>>5443137
The edgy kids are blazed today.

[Anonymous No.5443178]

>>5443027
>They'll want their money doing more productive things.
Exploring the Deep Ocean is gonna be the new Mars as soon as we realize how much more interesting it actually is than "red space desert".

[Anonymous No.5443196]

>>5443141

well do you want fundamentalist christians fucking around in space and pissing off aliens?

do you want islamic fuckwits screwing around in space and blowing shit up?

if you beleive in god, you never leave earth.

if nobody ever leaves earth, then so be it. its better than the galaxy being dominated by the stupidest intelligent species imaginable

[Anonymous No.5443201]

>>5443178
On that not I think some scientists are about to release footage of giant calamari that is about 15 meters long. They saw it while deep sea diving/exploring.

[Anonymous No.5443207]

>>5443196
The Q would be proud of you, brother-from-enother-engineer.

[Anonymous No.5443243]

>>5442828
it did need to carry it's own water though right? Stop making terrible arguments based on fallacious reasoning.

It's exactly the same thing, had we started investing in better space tech we would have more efficient computers, better fuel capacties and the ability to expand our resource pool.Exactly what columbus did.

[Anonymous No.5443262]

>>5443013
you cannot be this fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.5443299]

>5442786
I'm sure the Native Americans would have preferred that.

[Anonymous No.5443300]

>We will not touch Mars before 2050
"Relax guys, I've got this"
-Elon Musk of SpaceX

>City of 80,000 on mars in our lifetimes, half a million dollars for a round trip eventually, is their plan. But they're an actual legitimate and active company with the technology, money, vision, and balls to perhaps pull this off.
>Fully reusable rocket system being developed based on their already existing Falcon 9. The reusable rocket will cut the cost of access to space by a hell of a lot.
>They went from nothing to being the first private company and spacecraft to resupply the ISS with a brand new rocket from scratch, the most affordable rocket ever made (and yet it's also safe enough to one day carry men), the Falcon 9
>Recently test flown the grasshopper spacecraft prototype for the reusable rocket system, flown 12 stories in the air, hovered, then landed gently.
>Founder Elon Musk dedicated to making life multiplanetary above all else. Is uncomfortable with humanity having all it's eggs in one basket.

They're the best chance we have, but... I like the odds.

[Anonymous No.5443309]

>>5443300
Read
>>5443042

Enjoy your Martian Megacity.

[Anonymous No.5443341]

>>5443309
Would the future of Dredd's universe be better though?

[Anonymous No.5443358]

>>5443309
You're a fucking idiot, one day it may be affordable to get to Mars, but it will never be CHEAP.

In our lifetime the cheapest we can hope for is a quarter of a million dollars. Do you really think the homeless and poor of the world are going to scratch together a quarter mill each?

[Anonymous No.5443372]

>>5443358
Why did you delete your post?

[Anonymous No.5443378]

>>5443372
Because I changed my mind (on 4chan? i know. i know. impossibru) I now consider his point a legitimate concern.

Yes, access to mars will never be cheap cheap. So the new arrivals will need money to get there. But what of the people born there? Unless they can make something of value on the red planet... eventually we're going to end up with a generation of native born martians whose parents money has ran out unable to create anything profitable.

I'm hoping this isn't how it's going to play out. But it's a legitimate concern.

Nevertheless, I still feel we have to try. If we sit on earth forever we'll just be waiting for some calamity to eventually claim us. We got all out eggs in one basket, which is fine for the short term, but for the long term its not good enough. We need more baskets.

[Anonymous No.5443387]

>>5443042
Actually, it'd be the other way around. All the poor people would be left on the heavily polluted and almost dead Earth, because there's much more of them then middle-class and rich people.

[Anonymous No.5443401]

>>5443378
>Unless they can make something of value on the red planet... eventually we're going to end up with a generation of native born martians whose parents money has ran out unable to create anything profitable.

Well, there will be jobs in building, expansion, science. But what will fund this? Trade? Trade what? With who?

I'm hoping someone can tell me how they'll make this work. I never even graduated high school, I don't know shit.

[Anonymous No.5443416]

>>5443378
Why would anybody want to live on Mars?

Seriously. It's like living in the Chilean desert, except you can't breathe the air, temperatures are below the sublimation point of carbon dioxide, and the nearest source of food is two hundred million miles away.

[Anonymous No.5443431]

>>5443416
Why would anyone want to live in northern Canada? Some people like the isolation, and they think the land beautiful. Even though there's fuck all going on.

Sure, mars is incredibly harsh and impossible to survive on without life support, but some people don't care. Some people are willing to take the risks to be pioneers.

Not myself personally.

Eventually if things go well enough martian life will have it's own attractions in a few decades. The cities could be like sci-fi wonderlands or something. Maybe. For someone who loves science fiction novels it would be like living in a book.

[Anonymous No.5443433]

>>5443431
Also it might be a center of scientific advancement. Like that city in bioshock lol. So it could attract science types who want to do science stuff

[Anonymous No.5443434]

>>5443431
You can breathe in northern Canada. You can hunt for game. You can drink your own piss. People have been living in northern Canada for thousands of years.

[Anonymous No.5443438]

>>5443433
We have a lot of cities that are centers of scientific advancement... ones from which you can go visit the beach, go camping in the wilderness, travel to a another major metropolis, or fly anywhere on earth in less than ten hours.

[Anonymous No.5443440]

>>5443434
Yes, I realize that. Not everyone cares. Some people, men and women, have metaphorical "balls" that allow them to take those risks. For many said risks may even be an attraction in itself.

[Anonymous No.5443444]

>>5443440
Well then they will be sorely missed here on Earth where their bravery might actually lead to something productive instead of just wasting an enormous amount of money.

[Anonymous No.5443442]

>>5443438
But none where you can put on a spacesuit and wander across an alien planet. That alone will be an attraction for many.

Personally I prefer trees, but that's me.

[Anonymous No.5443448]

>>5443442

Don't even start with extra-solar colonization. If near earth colonization is nigh impossible, extra solar colonization is completely impossible. There is no way to make money off of it.

[Anonymous No.5443453]

>>5443444
How is having all our eggs in one basket a viable long term survival strategy?

99.9% of all species to ever exist on earth have gone extinct.

Living on multiple planets vastly increases humanities odds of survival. Securing our long term survival seems a worthy goal to me.

[Anonymous No.5443461]

>>5443448
I never mentioned extra-solar colonization. Mars is an alien planet. Alien as in "not earth" not as in "fucking avatar".

And it's a bit early to say with any certainty that extra solar colonization is impossible. It will take thousands of years to "get there" and will require technology that is centuries if not millenia away. But I think it inevitable at some point provided human nature remains the same, as it likely will. We do have a deep seated urge to explore and spread ourselves, we'll figure out a way.

These extra solar colonies will have their own little capitalisms and they wont need Earth, they'll create their own jobs and extract their own resources. It's not impossible.

[Anonymous No.5443467]

For now we could focus on space stations :D

[Anonymous No.5443471]

>>5443453

Who cares? What money is there in saving the world from a bogeyman from space? A fucking gamma ray burst could come through any second and wipe out all life on ALL the planets especially mars and then what?

"oh well at least we tried" is what nobody would be left alive to say.

Henny Penny, the Sky is Falling! is not a reasonable reason to go to space.

But keep using fear as a motivator. I hear it works in some areas of life.

[Anonymous No.5443479]

>>5443461

There is no money to be made in building the ships.

There will never be trees on mars.

>We do have a deep seated urge to explore and spread ourselves, we'll figure out a way.

Only when there are resources to exploit. Food, Minerals, Slaves. Of that order. Not just because "oh we like to explore because we're explorers!" but because there is something to pillage. There is no trade good that could ever top the monumental costs of an interstellar starship nevermind a whole trade flotilla of them.

Stop reading science fiction that runs on magic.

>>5443467
This is at least partly feasible because you don't have gravity wells and the absence of labor laws would keep costs low.

[Anonymous No.5443488]

>>5443471
>Who cares? What money is there in saving the world from a bogeyman from space? A fucking gamma ray burst could come through any second and wipe out all life on ALL the planets especially mars and then what?

Why would an alcoholic with a damaged liver stop drinking if he could get hit by a bus? Why exercise or eat healthy when any random dude could shoot you at any second? Those arguments are as fucking retarded as yours.

A gamma ray burst from space is pretty unlikely. Meanwhile mass extinction events have happened on earth in the past again and again and again and again and again and will happen again.

MONEYMONEYMONEYMONEY
Look, I'm a capitalist pig and proud of it. I make money and I buy things with that money. But it's not the end all be all. More important then money, is the long term survival of humanity, if you can't understand that or give a fuck about the survival of your own species then I feel bad for you.

>hurr durr fear appeal to emotions argument

[Anonymous No.5443501]

>>5443479
We do like to explore though, and as for resources and land the Earth can only support a dozen billion at most. The galaxy can and possibly will over the course of millions of years support an incredible epic fuckton of humans and their descendants.

If you want to sit on Earth with your thumb in your ass waiting for extinction go for it, but not everyone is going to do that.

>hurr durr humans only kill and rape and pillage its all we care about.
so edgy

[Anonymous No.5443505]

>>5443488

>
Why would an alcoholic with a damaged liver stop drinking if he could get hit by a bus? Why exercise or eat healthy when any random dude could shoot you at any second? Those arguments are as fucking retarded as yours.


Yeah and guess what? People make them. People make the decisions to do those things BY THE MILLIONS. If you love the earth so much then why are you using a computer that runs off electricity made by coal plants? Do you own a smartphone? Do you know how the people who made it are treated? Do you even care?

>A gamma ray burst from space is pretty unlikely. Meanwhile mass extinction events have happened on earth in the past again and again and again and again and again and will happen again.

Then we should spend a thousandth of a mars mission on better early warning and disposal systems, unless we just don't care that the earth could get severely damaged once we have colonies on mars?

>But it's not the end all be all

It is for multi-trillion dollar projects.

>if you can't understand that or give a fuck about the survival of your own species then I feel bad for you.

Don't mistake me. I'm only playing devil's advocate here. I'm sure i'd like all the things that you like.

But here's the thing,

The world doesn't care. It never has. We have more important things to deal with.

[Anonymous No.5443510]

>>5443479
>There will never be trees on mars.

NASA does not agree. They keep working on plans to terraform the fucker. The scientific community in general seems to think terraforming Mars is possible. Oh it will take a thousand years sure, and won't be started for a thousand more. But a couple thousand years in the grand scheme of things isn't such a big deal. It'll quite possibly happen eventually.

And yes, I know the atmosphere is so thin all the oxygen will fly off into space. But that's a slow process that will take like a million years and then we just terraform it again.

[Anonymous No.5443511]

>>5443501
>If you want to sit on Earth with your thumb in your ass waiting for extinction go for it, but not everyone is going to do that.

99% will. Just like 99% stayed at home during occupy.

[Anonymous No.5443512]

>>5443510

NASA has barely any funding for anything besides rovers. What the fuck does it matter what they think?

[Anonymous No.5443515]

>>5443510

>The scientific community in general

Cite sources.

Oh right, "i sawr it on the science channel the brian greene was talking his quantums!" isn't a source.

[Anonymous No.5443521]

>>5443518
>Also, you know about half the shit we use in 2013 was invented for space, right?

List it.

>inb4 wikipedia article

[Anonymous No.5443518]

>mfw retards keep saying that there is no profit to be made in space

Who keeps telling you this? Also, you know about half the shit we use in 2013 was invented for space, right?

hurr space expensive

[Anonymous No.5443528]

>>5443505
humanity is slow and stupid but we'll get around to it

earth is the cradle of humanity, but babby cant live in the cradle forever

Modern civilization is very very young and technology is advancing exponentially. It's hard to say what we'll be capable of and what we'll feel worth doing in a thousand years.

Even social progress is happening albeit slowly, we are improving. In our generation there is a smaller percentage of overall humans dieing in war then at any other time in human history. Women are allowed to vote, and drive, that's very recent. Slavery is almost abolished in first world countries. We'll never be perfect, but we are making a slow progress.

I know humanity is stupid and disgusting. But you have absolutely zero fucking respect for what we've done and what we have the potential to do.

[Anonymous No.5443533]

>>5443515
What the fuck does it matter what they think?

my argument was that the scientific community in general still thinks mars terraformation is technically possible. nasa and nasa funded scientists are a sizable portion of the mainstream space science community

[Anonymous No.5443538]

>>5443521

>carbon aerospace parts which are now used to make the 777
>vacuum cleaner
>all our "anti collision" tech in cars (and brake materials)
>freeze-dry
>heat surgery (see: lasers)
>wild fire warning system for US
>jaws of life


Shall I go on, or are you ready to stop being an idiot?

[Anonymous No.5443548]

>>5443528

>humanity is slow and stupid but we'll get around to it

Yeah, because you know, dumbing down everything for the 100 iqs is going to eventually, somehow, make everyone smart when people already, today, have access to the sum of all human knowledge and they use it to repost pictures of cats.

>earth is the cradle of humanity, but babby cant live in the cradle forever

Analogies are not facts.

>Modern civilization is very very young and technology is advancing exponentially. It's hard to say what we'll be capable of and what we'll feel worth doing in a thousand years.

This isn't how the universe works. There are not an infinite amount of loopholes to exploit to make reality into a science fiction novel.

>advancing exponentially

Show me the heatless car engine. Show me the AA battery that lasts for a thousand hours. Show me a 5ghz consumer CPU chip. Show me the working replacement for the Saturn V.

>Even social progress is happening albeit slowly, we are improving. In our generation there is a smaller percentage of overall humans dieing in war then at any other time in human history. Women are allowed to vote, and drive, that's very recent. Slavery is almost abolished in first world countries. We'll never be perfect, but we are making a slow progress.

Yes yes, we've all read Pinker. But we are not making any progress anywhere except in making things for stupid people. That took off like wildfire.

>I know humanity is stupid and disgusting. But you have absolutely zero fucking respect for what we've done and what we have the potential to do.

Sorry i don't find works purely motivated by Ego, Greed and War to be that impressive. Oh wow we went to the moon! Oh, but we only did it to beat the russians. Oh wow we split the atom! oh but we only did it to kill as many people as efficiently as possible. Oh wow we invented the internet! oh but nobody uses the information and it just makes them feel smart enough to know that vaccines cause autism.

[Anonymous No.5443549]

>>5443511
>99% will. Just like 99% stayed at home during occupy.

1% of humans is still 70 million people.

we only need a portion of that to want to settle another planet. we'll have all the wannabee pioneers we want, that's not the issue. money and technology is the issue, and i think we might figure something out one day

[Anonymous No.5443552]

>>5443533
>s that the scientific community in general still thinks mars terraformation is technically possible

Cite sources. You are not the scientific community and neither is reddit.

[Anonymous No.5443556]

>>5443538

Golly gee! And you're saying with 100% certainty that none of those things could EVER have been invented otherwise?

Well that's a load of shit.

[Anonymous No.5443559]

>>5443549
>we only need a portion of that to want to settle another planet. we'll have all the wannabee pioneers we want, that's not the issue. money and technology is the issue, and i think we might figure something out one day

Enjoy your totalitarian dictatorship. Oh, and lifetime onboard a ship. You won't even see your destination, good luck getting a bunch of loners to work together for several generations.

[Anonymous No.5443563]

>>5443521
>>5443521

Not the person you were responding to but wifi was invented by accident because they were trying out a new way to do something in space.

[Anonymous No.5443568]

>>5443563

So you're saying that nobody, ever, in the history of the world, would think of Wi-Fi otherwise?

Okay hotshot. You guys hate military spending, but you know how much shit we got out of that? I guess we should keep spending as much as possible.

God knows you fucks wouldn't be able to live without a microwave and you can thank the military for that.

[Anonymous No.5443572]

>>5443548

>pessimism about the state of humanity

Poverty is going down, wealth us going up. Fewer are starving, fewer are homeless. People are getting smarter too, or at least learning to use more complex tools

>not an infinite amount of loop holes

Your right, but they never do seem to stop finding new ones.

>heatless car engine
>AA battery with thousands of hours of life
>5ghz consumer cpu chip
>replacement for saturn V

Show me a fish that can climb a tree. The problems of today are unprecedented because...we havent even been aware of many of them until now. Give graphene ten years, and we might just see about the batteries and the CPU

>making things for stupid people

Im sure you find yourself quite savvy. At least we are learning how to interface the working class

>i dont find works motivated by ego greed and war to be impressive. nothing we did was interesting or worthwhile

Well arent you an edgy faggot, just look at the way you capitalized Ego Greed and War.

[Anonymous No.5443574]

>>5443556

Well, the fact of the matter is, they were not. You're attempt at being condescending made me chuckle, however

[Anonymous No.5443580]

>>5443568

>military spending

Actually, in terms of per dollar spending, the military is a fucking great investment. Ironically, it only starts to become wasteful when we use it for war

[Anonymous No.5443583]

>>5443572
>Poverty is going down, wealth us going up. Fewer are starving, fewer are homeless. People are getting smarter too, or at least learning to use more complex tools

None of that is true. Cite sources.

>Your right, but they never do seem to stop finding new ones.

Oh yeah. I was totally wrong about perpetual energy and cold fusion! oh let me guess you're talking about that warpdrive that's complete bullshit?

>Show me a fish that can climb a tree. The problems of today are unprecedented because...we havent even been aware of many of them until now. Give graphene ten years, and we might just see about the batteries and the CPU

Graphene is more toxic than asbestos. Good luck seeing widespread use. Also, it's not fucking pixie dust as much as the manufacturers want you to believe.

>Im sure you find yourself quite savvy. At least we are learning how to interface the working class

You mean how everything is being aimed for the "working class"?

Capitalization makes one edgy now? Jeeze louise.

[Anonymous No.5443586]

It's quite simple: deep sea exploitation will create out of nowhere life-support system cheap enough to make life on another celestial body affordable by a single country.

Once that is done, let the dick-waving contest commence. First for to claim the oceans, the antartica ( fuck the treaty ), then the solar system.

Everything in due time.

[Anonymous No.5443587]

>>5443574

Then what does it matter if space research invented it? Does nasa keep the profits? Fuck no.

[Anonymous No.5443589]

>>5443548
you sound like a teenager expecting everything to happen in your lifetime

[Anonymous No.5443590]

>>5443586

DRILL BABY DRILL.

FUCK THE ARCTIC.

YEAH THIS WILL SAVE THE WORLD.

[Anonymous No.5443593]

>>5443548
>This isn't how the universe works. There are not an infinite amount of loopholes to exploit to make reality into a science fiction novel.
Loopholes? lol. A fusion drive operating at a fraction of lightspeed carrying a cargo of automated terraformation machinery and cryonic human embryos is enough. It's fucking impossible in our lifetimes sure. Maybe we'll find some reason for it to be technically impossible one day. But right now it all looks one day feasible, magic not required. If you want to argue that human nature and finances will prevent it then fine, but it's not technically impossible.

>Show me the heatless car engine. Show me the AA battery that lasts for a thousand hours. Show me a 5ghz consumer CPU chip. Show me the working replacement for the Saturn V.
Technological progress is exponential. In almost 200,000 years we never advanced past a pointy stick. But then we got the ball rolling and went from living in a cave to skyscrapers and the internal combustion engine practically overnight. Progress build upon previous progress and expands exponentially. Have at least some fucking patience.

>But we are not making any progress anywhere except in making things for stupid people.
In some places we've gone from monarchies to democracies, from no rights to a declaration of rights. From most of your kids dieing in inter-tribal conflicts to only a portion of your kids dieing in war. From women treated like livestock to equal right. Social progress has been slow but it has in many places happened.

[Anonymous No.5443596]

>everyone is arguing with him

>even though he said he's just devil's advocate for humanity at large.

So many people are in denial about what the world really is.

[Anonymous No.5443604]

HEY GUYS I'M A COOL EDGY TEEN CYNICAL ABOUT EVERYTHING

[Anonymous No.5443609]

>>5443583

>greed
>ego

That belongs on /x/

Second of all

>graphene
>toxic

I didnt see anything on the first page of google, so Im gonna have to do this

[citation needed]

And you think I believe in warp drives, lol? Thats also for /x/ at this point

>no less poverty

Holy shit, are you retarded? The UN just celebrated a few months ago because they feel they can, for the first time in history, make the claim that "less than 50% of the world now lives in poverty"

Idk what your defining as poverty, but why not simply google "world poverty over time"

[Anonymous No.5443612]

>>5443587

The problem is, no one else did before NASA

[Anonymous No.5443622]

>>5443593

>fusion drive

>on a starship

Oh god my sides you got me laughing my ass off how much science fiction do you read?

You're right. it's not technically impossible. It's just that there is no motivation among people with the actual means to do it. And there never will be. You don't get rich by writing a lot of checks.

>living in a cave to skyscrapers

This took over 100,000 years. Do some research on the history of agriculture. Ray Kurzweil has been blowing smoke up your ass.

>Have at least some fucking patience

>go to the moon once

>wait 50 years

>get called impatient

wowzers.

>In some places we've gone from monarchies to democracies, from no rights to a declaration of rights. From most of your kids dieing in inter-tribal conflicts to only a portion of your kids dieing in war. From women treated like livestock to equal right. Social progress has been slow but it has in many places happened.

Oh yeah! Just like Egypt, and Syria, and Lybia and Tibet! and Mogadishu! and Afghanistan! and Occupy! and...and... well, that's it. oh wait, those all ended poorly didn't they? huh. how about that.

>in some places we've gone from monarchies to democracies, from no rights to a declaration of rights. From most of your kids dieing in inter-tribal conflicts to only a portion of your kids dieing in war. From women treated like livestock to equal right. Social progress has been slow but it has in many places happened.

Like i said, i've read pinker's books, so don't quote meaningless platitudes to me.

You use these tiny little localized progress events to justify your faith in a better tomorrow the same way a christian uses angels they see in the clouds to justify their faith.

I have no such faith. I lost it a long time ago when the future refused to change. In another decade, you'll agree with me.

[Anonymous No.5443627]

>>5443609

http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=409

[Anonymous No.5443629]

>>5443612

That's like saying pizza could not have been invented before the country of italy.

[Anonymous No.5443637]

>>5443609

>Idk what your defining as poverty, but why not simply google "world poverty over time"

1.29 billion people is too many. Especially when it is a direct result of the others becoming less poor. a hundred is too many. Are my sights set high? Yes. But we should not become complacent with microscopic victories.

[Anonymous No.5443644]

>>5443609

See this? This is the problem. All you people living in the blue think the world is fucking great.

[Anonymous No.5443645]

>>5443644
Don't generalize...

[Anonymous No.5443647]

>>5443645

Oh yeah i'm sure there are a lot of people here contributing from the sudan or from borneo.

[Anonymous No.5443649]

>>5443622
>>fusion drive
>>on a starship
>Oh god my sides you got me laughing my ass off how much science fiction do you read?

^ "Realizing "2001: A Space Odyssey": Piloted Spherical Torus Nuclear Fusion Propulsion" by Craig H. Williams, Leonard A. Dudzinski, Stanley K. Borowski, and Albert J. Juhasz, NASA TM-2005-213559, 2005, http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20050160960_2005161052.pdf
^ "Interplanetary Space Transport Using Inertial Fusion Propulsion" by C.D.Orth, UCRL-JC-129239, 9th International Conference on Emerging Nuclear Systems, Tel-Aviv, Israel, June 28-July 2, 1998, http://www.boomslanger.com/images/istuifp.pdf
^ "MAGNATIZED TARGET FUSION IN ADVANCED PROPULSION RESEARCH" by Rashad Cylar, MSFC/University of Alabama NASA Faculty Fellowship Program 2002, http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20030093609_2003101283.pdf
^ "Conceptual Design of In-Space Vehicles for Human Exploration of the Outer Planets", NASA/TP—2003–212691, November 2003, http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20040010797_2004001506.pdf
^ "Fusion Ship II -- A Fast Manned Interplanetary Space Vehicle Using Inertial Electrostatic Fusion", J.Webber et al, University of Illinois, U-C, Department of Nuclear, Plasma and Radiological Engineering, 2003, http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/iecworkshop/PDF/TECHNICAL_TALKS/webber.pdf
^ http://torsatron.tripod.com/fusor/fusor.html

Obviously not going to happen in our lifetimes, but from research done so far it seems quite feasible. This isn't the hyperspace drive from Star Wars it's just rocket science.

[Anonymous No.5443655]

>>5443649

Would you mind saving me some time and tell me if any of those long diatribes has any working schematics or is it just a lot of long winded "well, in my opinion" statements?

Why not just cite NERVA while you're at it? We actually built those but, surprise surprise, never used them! gosh!

[Anonymous No.5443660]

>>5443649

>2005, 1998, 2002, 2003, 2003

Hey, we have exponential progress you know! We should already have Mr. Fusion a decade later so what gives?

[Anonymous No.5443665]

>>5443644
All the people living in the blue think the world is great in the blue and shit everywhere else. Nobody thinks Africa is a paradise just like Canada. We're all fully aware that most of the world is in poverty.

>The UN just celebrated a few months ago because they feel they can, for the first time in history, make the claim that "less than 50% of the world now lives in poverty"

We have a lot of fucking work ahead of us to reduce poverty. But progress has been made. The world will never be perfect, there will always be people starving somewhere. But in time, progress will perhaps continue to be made.

>why into space when people starve here
People starve mostly for political reasons, from poor allocation of resources. Stopping ourselves from going into space isn't going to change the shitty way we distribute resources.

Progress here on earth or space? No, progress here on earth and space. Gradually.

[Anonymous No.5443671]

>>5443660
exponential progress doesn't mean miracles overnight. there isn't a lot of work going into theoretical concept engines that we're at least a century from completing. surprise surprise. progress is more gradual in some areas then others, what's your point?

[Anonymous No.5443681]

>>5443671

That breakeven fusion on the ground is a financial nightmare and even proposing to put one on a ship would get the funding pulled?

You don't honestly think that fusion power will ever be commercially viable do you? They have to replace the entire thing every few years because of fucking transmutation!

Transmutation! That's not just a little oil buildup!

[Anonymous No.5443678]

>>5443655
>working schematics
we're not going to have a working schematic for a fusion rocket in 2013 lol. all i'm doing is showing that it seems technically feasible. you're saying it's impossible because its not here yet

[Anonymous No.5443685]

>>5443678

Technically feasible does not come anywhere near pragmatic. Come now.

[Anonymous No.5443686]

>>5443681
it's a fusion rocket not a fusion reactor, pay attention, it's 2 completely different concepts

[Anonymous No.5443688]

>>5443665
>But in time, progress will perhaps continue to be made.

Yep. Better Iphones made by the starving people!

Ah, progress. Always on the backs of some slave. Good ol humanity.

[Anonymous No.5443693]

>>5443688

[Anonymous No.5443700]

>>5443693

Ha Ha! Correct! whenever someone mentions that all western prosperity is built on the backs of the poor, you make a joke and pretend like it's not there!

Just like Reddit!

[Anonymous No.5443698]

>>5443686

Depends on what kind of fusion. Hydrogen-Boron? helium-Deuterium?

>The catch is, you have to arrange for the protons to impact with 300 keV of energy, and even then the reaction cross section is fairly small. Shoot a 300 keV proton beam through a cloud of boron plasma, and most of the protons will just shoot right through. 300 keV proton beam against solid boron, and most will be stopped by successive collisions without reacting. Either way, you won't likely get enough energy from the few which fuse to pay for accelerating all the ones which didn't.

>Now, a dense p-B plasma at a temperature of 300 keV is another matter. With everything bouncing around at about the right energy, sooner or later everything will fuse. But containing such a dense, hot plasma for any reasonable length of time, is well beyond the current state of the art. We're still working on 25 keV plasmas for D-T fusion

[Anonymous No.5443707]

Are people in this thread being cynical just for the sake of being cynical?

I don't usually come to /sci/, but I thought I'd check it out because it had to be better than places like /g/. However, this thread makes me weep.

People naysaying space exploration for the hell of it, like we can't both work on problems at home AND in space? People acting as if 1 planet is enough and that we're not a sitting target for an asteroid?

Seriously. What is wrong with you people? Why don't you want to progress? All this talk about "it's not economically viable", this is the attitude that needs to change. We have a planet full of humans willing to do the work. Let's progress as a species instead of "BUT MY MONEY COULD BE SPENT ON MCDONALDS OR SOMETHING.".

[Anonymous No.5443712]

>>5443707

Oh boy. It's this kid.

Hey kid, go read this, then reflect:

http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/read/2006/11/01/delusions-of-space-enthusiasts

[Anonymous No.5443717]

>>5443707
>All this talk about "it's not economically viable", this is the attitude that needs to change.

>do not know "devil's advocate"

>engage pointless whining

>Let's progress as a species instead of "BUT MY MONEY COULD BE SPENT ON MCDONALDS OR SOMETHING.".

Go make your own species. Nobody who knew what they were talking about ever said humans were noble.

[Anonymous No.5443722]

>>5443712
That has nothing to do with what I said.

The change needs to come from you. Of course humanity isn't going to "Write cheques" for space if no one is interested in it. Or no one thinks it's a good idea.

I'm talking about you and all you cynics. Man the fuck up, seroiusly.

[Anonymous No.5443724]

>>5443717
Change your view. Change your friends' views. Keep saying "BUT IT WILL NEVER WORK" and it never will.

[Anonymous No.5443727]

>>5443700
A gross oversimplification of socioeconomic realities is called out for being the bitter edgy statement it was and someone got butthurt!

Just like 4chan!

[Anonymous No.5443735]

>>5443722
>I'm talking about you and all you cynics. Man the fuck up, seroiusly.

Oh i'm sorry i didn't realize i was the blarney stone and all it took for space to be colonized was the belief of one middle aged guy or that a bunch of people with no real clout could change the world by wishing hard enough.

Gotta wonder why Occupy didn't destroy Wall street, if that's how the universe works.

>>5443724
I fucking dare you to go to africa and tell the kids there that they can do anything in the world. You'd have to be some kind of a monster to get their hopes up like that.

[Anonymous No.5443737]

>>5443712
>wants to say human progress is impossible and will never happen
>shows proof as an article from neil de grasse tyson, a man who is constantly championing for human progress to be made

[Anonymous No.5443744]

>>5443735
>or that a bunch of people with no real clout could change the world by wishing hard enough.

Are you this daft? If every person in a society wants a certain thing, what do you think that society would strive towards?

You really think that attitude change and education wouldn't change the things society aims for? Are you really saying this? Because if you are I can no longer converse with you.

Of fucking course the government is going to listen to the people. Look at gay marriage, it's going to be legal everywhere in a matter of years, imagine if we had that fury about space exploration.

Fuck man, come on, think.

[Anonymous No.5443747]

>>5443735
All we're saying is one day humanity may settle other planets. Maybe it won't happen, but it's not impossible.

[Anonymous No.5443792]

>>5443737

>doesn't actually read the essay and find out that tyson also believes that space travel is a lot harder than just technical limitations.

[Anonymous No.5443799]

>>5443744

Every person doesn't want to go to space though. Maybe 1% of the population does. What every person wants is cheaper merchandise and fewer taxes and more money to spend.

Oh gee look at that they don't even get that there goes your stupid interpretation of how the world works.

[Anonymous No.5443806]

>>5443792
actually reads the essay and it says nothing about travel to other planets being impossible. merely pointing out how hard it is to advance past the saturn v in todays political climate.

i never said easy, i never said soon, i never said a sure thing. i just said we might do this and its worth a try

[Anonymous No.5443827]

>>5442597
>>5442624
>>5442650
>rants on about OP and others being hooked on sci-fi
>keeps referencing a sci-fi

stay classy

[Anonymous No.5443864]

>>5443627

>control F
>graphene

The key finding, then, is that not all carbon nanotubes are equal when it comes to their toxicity. Long nanotubes produce an asbestos-like response, while short nanotubes, and particulate graphene-like materials don’t produce this response. The experiments don’t directly demonstrate the development of the cancer mesothelioma, but it would be reasonable to suppose this would be the eventual consequence of the pathogenic changes observed.
So can you read?

[Anonymous No.5443888]

>>5442593
OK.. so I tried reading all the comments but my head started hurting. So I'm going to just voice my opinion and post some links to maybe get a semi serious conversation..
Technology is a cunt, it sometimes takes generations to develop just the components to then develop the next major step. Here is a link to future developments that include commercial and government. http://envisioningtech.com/envisioning2012/
Space flight on the other hand has developed in leaps and bounds but there is the limitations in reliable energy sources that hinder our development in propulsion. Here are examples of us moving away from standardised rocket fuels and systems.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2027072188/plasma-jet-electric-thrusters-for-spacecraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_plasma_thruster
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/about/fs23grc.html
Now these engines require a few hundred megawatt powerhouse for each thruster.. But we cant just strap a nuclear power plant to everything so the chase for cold fusion is now delaying us.. This takes a bit of research but personally I think helium 3 might be the answer..
http://www.coldfusionenergy.net/
Now as far as mars is concerned...
http://mars-one.com/en/
Could be interesting.. if enough skilled dreamers come together anything can happen.

Anyway.. comeback?
>>5442802
you are one dumb mother fucker.. if its made of something its has a resource

[Anonymous No.5446329]

>>5443888
>http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/about/fs23grc.html
We have limited resources on Earth. If Mars One happens, we will be sending miners and geology surveyors there. That way we'll know if we can get resources from Mars to use for Earth.

I hope physics research continues, and it seems to be the case notably in Europe where they got the Higgs Boson. They should focus on cold fusion now I guess if it is possible to move their research funds to it.