/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:00:45 2013 No.5421120 [DELETED]

greetings /sci/fags, what are your thoughts on this logical fallacy commited by many in the scientific community:
>the scientific community largely accepts that genetics and intelligence are correlated
>common sense suggests that different races have different genes
>scientific community openly rejects any possibility that race and intelligence are correlated
>all related research is conducted under the assumption that all races are inherently equal
>all results bearing evidence that race and intelligence are correlated in any way are explained by "unequal living conditions of minorities"
pic so fucking related

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:03:04 2013 No.5421124 Before anyone says "race is a social construct": http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-reality-of-race http://www.isteve.com/realityofrace.htm

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:07:04 2013 No.5421131

The simple answer is that it's an uncomfortable truth. We're taught from a very young age that "everyone is equal" and that everyone should be judged on an individual basis, which is great when you're talking about behavior.

But as you say, scientifically, this is obviously flawed. There's no reason to assume peoples all over the world developed equal intelligence or capacity for intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:07:33 2013 No.5421133 >>5421124 who the fuck ever said that bullshit? race is a literal thing, you can see physical differences in separate races. whoever says race is a construct doesn't belong here

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:10:03 2013 No.5421137 >>5421133 Pretty much every Reddit liberal type that populates boards like /sci/ have been taught that things like race and sex differences are "social constructs".

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:11:18 2013 No.5421138

>>5421131
and shouldn't race theoretically influence delinquancy as well? it has been suggested by many that genetics influences that as well. the behavior that would have been successful in ancient africa are criminal in modern, civilised societies. its not racism, its evolution

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:14:19 2013 No.5421143 >>5421137 i havnt seen any dissent so far... im surprised at the inherant lack of butthurt on this board

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:18:18 2013 No.5421148

Why is this thread always made? Honestly, why is it always fucking made?

Every fucking day, at least one incarnation of this thread exists. It's the same bullshit, day in and day out.

If you want to argue about this, go to /pol/. They'll gladly give you several links about race differences or whatever the fuck else you want. That being said, however, faggot anons will reply to this thread because 'racis so edgy XD.' There's nothing of consequence that can even come of this thread. It's simply another version of, ''niggers are dumb, let's make fun of niggers lol cuz they're so dumb.'' This is what will happen in the thread:

>people link/research scientific bullshit.
>people discuss aforementioned bullshit.
>people come in to counter-attack said bullshit.
>suddenly, the word LIBERAL/LIBRUL is thrown around and all shit breaks loose.
>someone finally just mans up and says, ''niggers are dumb.''
>people just talk about black people being dumb for the entirety of the thread, and other people disagree with that argument.

It follows the same pattern, every fucking thread. There's NOTHING scientific about this discussion and NOTHING good can come of it. The fact is that the people who make the thread carry racial ideologies and they want to feel good about said ideologies.

If we had people make as many threads on the abc/poincare conjecture or fucking topology, we'd all be fucking PhD-level mathematicians by now. Fucks sake.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:19:33 2013 No.5421150

Oh boy, its this thread again. But for some reason i feel inclined to reply rather than simply referring to >>>/pol/

Genes between different populations of humans are extremely minor compared to genes between populations of other species (e.g. chimpanzees), so any genetic differences in intelligence will probably be minor.

IQ tests are more than likely biased toward higher levels of education. There may still be genuine differences in average intelligence among different populations, but IQ testing is not foolproof or completely reliable.

Growth of civilizations is dependent on many factors including resource availability and competition with other populations driving "arms races" in the literal sense as well as in a cultural sense (the geography of Europe and the Mediterranean played an important role in the development of civilizations there). Furthermore, there are many historic African societies that had a high degree of sophistication at one point in history, but there is not much that remains of these civilizations (e.g. ancient Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana).

Even barring all above arguments, you are still only talking about differences among AVERAGE IQ. There will still be many individuals of African race that are much more intelligent than most white people. This means that you cannot justify any racially based policy because there will be members of every race who are highly intelligent and members of every race who are incredibly unintelligent. This means that all policies should judge a person individually, not based on their racial background. (This includes affirmative action)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:20:18 2013 No.5421154 >>5421137 >liberal Bazinga.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:20:48 2013 No.5421155

>>5421120

If you want to claim there is a correlation between intelligences and race, you first have to define race. What specific group of gene is needed to be part of any specific race? What about for people who have mixed traits? How will they be classified?

>common sense suggests that different races have different genes

That is not good enough. It is not well defined nor specific enough to be tested.

Ultimately no one cares. If you're as intelligent as you believe, you should have no problem achieving a superior social or financial position than your inferiors. Spending money doing these research is a waste of effort advocated only by human failures desperately in need of an ego boost.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:22:03 2013 No.5421157
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Why do we have to get this shit every single day?

I wanna discuss maths and physics not this fucking /pol/ garbage. We're not here to provide legitimacy for your bullshit pol, we dont give a shit about your jew conspiracies.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:22:48 2013 No.5421160 >>5421148 i normally lurk on /b/, this is my first time posting on /sci/. and i originally posted this on /pol/, but found no-one who opposed it, and someone suggested that i post this here instead if i was looking for a serious debate, which i am

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:23:03 2013 No.5421165 >>>/pol/ please

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:23:18 2013 No.5421161

>>5421143
I'll take up the dissent, so no one else is. Genetic diversity within a race is quite substanial in and of it itself. There are considerable differences intelligence within a race. Intelligence between races is a hard comparison to make. For instance, look up old Libyan IQ tests. Native Libyans in the early 20th century took a European IQ test and scored very poorly on it. However, when they were asked to answer it like a fool would they answered at the same proficiency as Europeans. So it's more a social construct of what is considered intelligence. What you would consider intelligent isn't necessarily considered so by other societies. So basically each society specializes in a specific style of intelligence and no test adequately measures the difference in these intelligences. They're difficult to compare.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:23:49 2013 No.5421164 >>5421160 >goes on /b/ and /pol/ that explains it

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:24:33 2013 No.5421166

>>5421148
not OP, but I'm not hateful at all. I feel that hateful people are the reason this topic isn't discussed at all.

All people like me want are honesty over dogma. If you're a liberal it might be hard for you to see how annoying this is to have people always harp on about everyone being the same, and there being scientific publications that support their beliefs based on faulty assumptions of inherent equality.

I know this is an ugly topic, I know it's not polite and feels uncomfortable to talk about, but if we don't discuss reality, we can't solve real issues.

This is sort of like the religious debate. Atheists have seen the "light" and the more petty ones are eager to bash religious people to feel superior. It's the same deal with race realists. Not all of us are obnoxious provocateurs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:25:48 2013 No.5421169 >>5421157 see>>5421160

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:26:03 2013 No.5421174

>>5421155
see:
>>5421124

Races can change and are somewhat malleable, but there are some constants, for example: Chinese will always be more similar to Japanese than they are to Zulus. No matter how our grouping of races changes, similarities and distances will remain constant.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:27:48 2013 No.5421175 >>5421160 Leave and never come back untill you're ready to discuss real science

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:29:18 2013 No.5421177

>>5421160

We get this shit everyday. Fuck off.
>d i originally posted this on /pol/, but found no-one who opposed it, and someone suggested that i post this

Link me to said thread. I highly doubt this. /pol/ is the first one to yell the following:
>niggers are dumb
>JIDF detected
>argentina
>white

Like I said, fuck off. Go to /b/ or /pol/ with this. We get this EVERY FUCKING DAY.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:30:03 2013 No.5421178 >>5421175 of course you bash this as "not real science" rather than participating in a logical debate on the matter

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:31:18 2013 No.5421184 >>5421178 >>>/pol/ I cant be fucked discussing this bullshit. I bet you can't even do simple math

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:34:37 2013 No.5421189

>>5421166
>we don't discuss reality, we can't solve real issues.

This is funny.
>you solving a real issue
>mon visage quand.

I don't doubt you, but I doubt that a fucking kid on 4chan can solve a real issue such as this..if you can even call it an issue. The formula I gave earlier will prove true in this thread if it goes on and, before I submitted my post, someone spat out the word liberal. Now you're spewing it. It's the same fucking nonsense. You won't change anything, you won't do anything. It's 2:32 in the fucking morning on the east coast. Who are you fucking kidding, faggot?

>This is sort of like the religious debate.
And like religious debate, IT DOESN'T FUCKING BELONG HERE.
>Atheists have seen the ''light''

That's funny -- an atheist using a term that has a high correlation with Christianity. Oh, the insanity.

People other than myself will continue to sage this thread into oblivion and do you know why? Because of what I said earlier. Fuck off and leave.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:35:37 2013 No.5421193 >>5421184 what the fuck does math hav to do with this? by the way, iv been the best in my class in math for my entier high school career. i just stopped caring because much of it is useless to me now

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:37:22 2013 No.5421197

>>5421184
You sure are behaving a lot like religious people do when their dogma is challenged.
>>5421189
>And like religious debate, IT DOESN'T FUCKING BELONG HERE.
OP is just asking why science refuses to acknowledge reality in this instance just because the truth is uncomfortable.

Maybe you guys should reflect on why your knee-jerk reaction is so defensive. You clearly aren't thinking rationally and honestly about this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:38:08 2013 No.5421198 >>5421193 It's called math and science for a reason faggot, we dont discuss bullshit here. I'm so fucking tired of you assclowns coming here with your racist agenda trying to discuss your shit that no one here cares off.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:39:23 2013 No.5421201 >>5421198 its not racist, faggot. see>>5421138

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:39:23 2013 No.5421202 >>5421198 Asking why science ignores racial differences in intelligence isn't a "racist agenda". If you were an honest man of science, you would ignore the discomfort the topic brings you and be able to objectively think about it.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:39:52 2013 No.5421204

>>5421174

You haven't answered any of my question. Chinese is a nationality and a cultural identity. Neither of which determines intelligence in the sense stormfags speaks of.

How exactly would you define Asians? Black hair? Brown eye? Pale yellow skin? Those are all cosmetic traits. What do they have to do with intelligence?

How about cranial capacity? More is better right? In that case, you aren't sorting people by aesthetics anymore. Those with the largest cranial capacity should be known as jews. While those with the smallest shall be known as niggers. Skin color matters not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:40:07 2013 No.5421208 >>5421204 having a similar genetic code to those originating from a specific reigion

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:41:52 2013 No.5421209

>>5421197
How fucking new are you? Seriously.

We acted the same way with those stupid fucking joke-physics questions(WHAT WULD HAPPON IF A SUN MAD OF FIRE COLLIDDED WIT A SUN MDA OF ICE??), redundant HW threads and religious threads(guise, wat aboot bananas? checkmate, atheists.)

Seriously, we drown threads such as these in sages because they do not belong here. Allow me to reiterate this: Go to /pol/ or /b/. They will gladly discuss this topic with you.

>clearly aren't thinking rationally and honestly

I'm thinking your mother is a whore.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:42:37 2013 No.5421211 >>5421204 your saging just proves your ignorance and unwillingness to honestly debate the subject

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:42:53 2013 No.5421212 >>5421177 His point is that race and intelligence are correlated, which means /pol/ saying >niggers are dumb is equivalent to finding "no-one who opposed it" Can you even read?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:43:53 2013 No.5421215 >>5421211 >unwillingness to honestly debate the subject Looks like the message has finally made it through to your thick fucking skull. I didnt come here to discuss your shit, go back to your echo chamber over at /pol/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:44:22 2013 No.5421216 Variation between groups < Variation within groups hurr durr how do i distribution

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:44:38 2013 No.5421217

>>5421204
Again, you haven't read the literature on the subject. It's about genetic similarity. A series of similar genes that ethnic groups who developed close to each other share.

Africans generally having dark skin, rough hair, and broad noses is an example that you wouldn't disagree with. You're trying to boil it down to "does their dark skin make them african? is it their broad noses? what about aborigines who have broad noses? there's no such thing as race" and it's obvious you have a personal investment in the discussion and aren't looking at it rationally.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:45:08 2013 No.5421220 >>5421215 then why are you even trying? u would be perfect trollbait on /b/, just sayin

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:45:08 2013 No.5421222

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>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:46:22 2013 No.5421224 File: 55 KB, 472x472, 1340683673668.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421222 now were talking

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:47:07 2013 No.5421229 >>5421222 shut the fuck up! if you dont wanna participate, don't. you don't have to fuck it up for those who are honestly interested

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:48:37 2013 No.5421230

>>5421208

The variation within each region is significantly enough that it would match quite a large quantity of the world's population. Unless you look for specific traits (such as skin color, facial structure, etc..). In that case, you need to prove that having that specific traits is the cause of superior intelligence.

>>5421217

>Africans generally having dark skin, rough hair, and broad noses is an example that you wouldn't disagree with

Yes, we can see that quite easily. But what the fuck does these aesthetic traits have to do with intelligence? You should have the mental capacity to understand correlation is not causation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:50:22 2013 No.5421232 File: 126 KB, 400x580, 1340683290364.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421229 no one here is honestly interested except you

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:50:37 2013 No.5421234 >>5421230 aesthetic traits are an indicator of genetic diversity, the larger the physical differences are, the larger the genetic differences generally are

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:51:37 2013 No.5421235

>>5421222
Based as fuck. Carrying on the legacy.

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>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:53:53 2013 No.5421238 >>5421235 fuck off

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:56:38 2013 No.5421243 >>5421234 Genes that determines aesthetics and genes that determines intelligence are not a function of one another. Having more of a specific aesthetic gene does not necessarily mean you are more prone to having the superior "intelligence" gene too.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:56:38 2013 No.5421244 fuck it, im done. have fun saging this to death

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:57:22 2013 No.5421245

>>5421120
>what are your thoughts on this logical fallacy
It's not a logical fallacy. It's a mistake. "Logical fallacy" is not a more posh way of saying someone fucked up. It has a more narrow meaning.

>>common sense suggests that different races have different genes
Common sense doesn't suggest anything like that and either way, it's not reliable. Genetic studies suggest that different races have different proportions of different alleles.
>>scientific community openly rejects any possibility that race and intelligence are correlated
BS.
>>all related research is conducted under the assumption that all races are inherently equal
BS.
>>all results bearing evidence that race and intelligence are correlated in any way are explained by "unequal living conditions of minorities"
BS.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 02:57:53 2013 No.5421248 File: 23 KB, 275x235, 1340683968471.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421244

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:02:07 2013 No.5421256

>>5421243
And it's not random either. Just as "aesthetic" features are consistent among ethnic groups, so is intelligence.

If you acknowledge that intelligence is largely genetic, you HAVE to acknowledge that different populations will have different intelligence averages.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:05:31 2013 No.5421262 File: 47 KB, 480x480, amber-alert-fwy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >the scientific community largely accepts >scientific community openly rejects /sci/ agrees that OP is a faggot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:07:31 2013 No.5421267 >>5421262 we largely accept that op should go to pol or b

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:07:45 2013 No.5421268

>>5421256
this is OP, just give up. no on that disagrees wants to have this discussion because it hurts their feels. thats why (in case you havn't noticed) every opposing view has been accompanied with a sage. they will eventually just stop posting when they realise saging doesn't do shit

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:11:00 2013 No.5421277

>>5421256

>And it's not random either.

The mutation of genes is a highly random.

>Just as "aesthetic" features are consistent among ethnic groups, so is intelligence.

Just because one is true, does not mean the other is too. Do I really need to point out the same thing over and over again?

>If you acknowledge that intelligence is largely genetic

Intelligence in itself is a vaguely defined topic along with race. The attempts to measure such a thing is laughable at best. The result of those IQ test varies significantly depending on the group or organization that administered it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:12:00 2013 No.5421278 File: 64 KB, 960x640, 1357102520614.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421268 lel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:14:00 2013 No.5421286 >>5421277 >The mutation of genes is a highly random. He's not talking about mutation. He's talking about distribution, dum-dum.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:14:15 2013 No.5421284 >>5421277 >The result of those IQ test varies significantly depending on the group or organization that administered it. Then you'd be able to show me an organization that had Africans consistently scoring higher than asians?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:15:30 2013 No.5421289 >>5421124 I'll see your yourtube video and popular science article, and raise you with actual science. http://www.els.net/WileyCDA/ElsArticle/refId-a0005857.html http://philpapers.org/archive/KAPPOA.12.pdf

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:18:00 2013 No.5421292

>>5421289
Here's one for you.

http://philpapers.org/rec/SESRAS

Let's not turn this into a citation contest. I gave you easily digestible articles that summarize my viewpoints and argued my own points clearly. You can do better than let a paper argue for you.

>>	not that guy Tue Jan 8 03:24:31 2013 No.5421297 >>5421292 >you can do better than respond to pseudoscience with actual science HA

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:25:45 2013 No.5421300

>>5421292
>Let's not turn this into a citation contest.
No, let's.

This is a response to the paper you linked to:
>Rehabilitating a biological notion of race? A response to Sesardic
(google the title, I can't post the link because the system thinks it's spam)

Your move.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:33:15 2013 No.5421310

>>5421286

Distribution is mutation over time.

>>5421284

I do not need to. The fact that the same man taking different "IQ" test can have such highly varied score speaks volume to how inaccurate and inconsistent such tests are at gauging cognitive ability.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:33:46 2013 No.5421313
File: 63 KB, 395x277, i_need_this_mostly_in_sci.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>and a million threads later, the illinois nazis were still adamant that racism was somehow legitimized by science
>the rest of the species had left the planet about 990,000 threads earlier
OP, stop contributing to the circlejerk and at least TRY to do something more productive with your life than just marginally raising the fertility of the plot of land you will be buried in.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:35:45 2013 No.5421315 >>5421313 OP here, i havnt posted since this>>5421268 iv just been lurking until this thread's inevitable demise

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:36:00 2013 No.5421317 >>5421313 also, ive seen no evidence yet to truly prove me wrong

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:37:46 2013 No.5421320 >>5421310 >Distribution is mutation over time. Yeah nah you're a cunt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:41:16 2013 No.5421326 >>5421320 No, it is caused by god creating white people, black people, and Asians and sticking them at different areas of the world.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:44:46 2013 No.5421330

>race
Whether or not this is a "social construct" is irrelevant.
"Race" tends to be related to the location (environment) a person's ancestor evolved in. Populations evolving in different environments acquire different traits. Certain environments are more favorable to the development of some mental functions than others (unless you believe evolution magically stops at the neck). Therefore, it is not surprising to find average differences in intelligence and aggressivity between races.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:49:30 2013 No.5421341

>>5421330

Under what circumstance is intelligence not helpful toward survival? Therefore the selective pressure favoring intelligence is equal among all region.

Here is an article argument against your idea published in the Journal of Anthropological Research.

>http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3631210?uid=3739560&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101509773733

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:52:30 2013 No.5421345 >>5421341 there are plenty of instances where intelligence would be favored MORE in a given environment than another. and, seeing as evolution is random, what makes you think intelligence would completely even out between ANY 2 races?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:54:01 2013 No.5421348 >>5421150 >this post getting ignored very well stated sir.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:54:16 2013 No.5421347 OP again, could every participator respond to this ONCE in order to give an idea of how many people are involved in this

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 03:59:01 2013 No.5421352 >>5421348 its being ignored because hes providing no points to argue against. hes jus making broad statements that cant be argued one way or another

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 04:03:07 2013 No.5421357

>>5421345

>there are plenty of instances where intelligence would be favored MORE in a given environment than another.

Not anymore then any other places. Competition to survive always exist no matter where you lived. Intelligence is an equally desirable no matter where you lived.

A lush and fertile landed will be highly sought after, only the strongest and smartest will lay claim to such a land.

Likewise only the strong and the intelligent can survive in a frigid wasteland.

>what makes you think intelligence would completely even out between ANY 2 races?

This can go both ways.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 04:13:21 2013 No.5421363 >>5421357 >This can go both ways sure it can, the point is that it does go one way or another. it's nearly impossible for them to truly even out

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 04:14:37 2013 No.5421365

>>5421341
>Under what circumstance is intelligence not helpful toward survival?
A higher intelligence requires a greater energy investment from the body. If higher intelligence is not crucial for survival and can be easily replaced by another adaptation, it will not appear on its own.

In the case of races, it is obvious that races evolving in colder/harsher (yet still predictable) places than Africa had a great need for the ability to plan ahead and have more social cohesion, among other things.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 04:17:21 2013 No.5421370 >>5421365 >If higher intelligence is not crucial for survival and can be easily replaced by another adaptation, it will not appear on its own. >it will not appear on its own. Ok, I'm done here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 04:20:06 2013 No.5421378 >>5421370 What's wrong? Did you not understand the first part of that sentence?

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 04:25:37 2013 No.5421388

>>5421341
In our current society those with the highest intelligence tend to not have children or as many as those with "typical intelligence" so those who are intelligence actually have quite a low fitness. Even if it were beneficial to survival the overall fitness of those individuals is lower.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 04:38:36 2013 No.5421412 OP here to happily say this thread's over

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 05:37:22 2013 No.5421475

>>5421120
Rome pretty much lived off of Greece's legacy.

In all of Rome's history they never had a run like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle. Not even close. They were meh-tier scientists at best. Their achievement was basically spreading Ancient Greek culture across Europe.

/rant

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 06:11:37 2013 No.5421528

>>5421120
op, you know there are some indian, arab mathematicians today for example

>Africa: can't sustain population, it's either a desert or a jungle. bad conditions for development, have to struggle to survive
>Europe: weather, soil is beneficial to agriculture -> not everyone spends his entire day searching for food -> free manpower for other things

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 06:24:22 2013 No.5421551 >>5421475 >Their achievement was basically spreading Ancient Greek culture across Europe. Which is pretty great considering the fact that the Greeks couldn't do it themselves because they couldn't stop fucking fighting each other.

>>	Anonymou᠎s Tue Jan 8 06:24:38 2013 No.5421552 Casual /sci/ lurker here. Isn't there a janitor or mod on this board that handles threads like this? Not saging out of genuine interest.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 06:40:52 2013 No.5421576

>>5421352
yes he is. he is using Lewontin's fallacy to argue against the existence/relevance of race. educate yourself, ignorant racialists, on the most often made fallacy by those who deny racial differences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin%27s_Fallacy
to read:
Edwards: Human Genetic Diversity (2003)
Lewis et al.: The Mismeasure of Science (2011)
Sesardic: Race: a social destruction of a scientific concept (2010)

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 06:46:22 2013 No.5421580

>>5421475

> implying Plato wasn't such a terrible "scientist" that he set progress back by centuries.

Who was it that successfully argued that slaves were necessary, that philosophy was better than experiment, and that dictatorship was for the good of the people?

Fuck the Atticans. Long live Ionia.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 06:47:41 2013 No.5421583 So black people don't have better resistance to the sun than me and they were just racist all along? Brb oiling up

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 06:49:26 2013 No.5421587

>>5421580
>Who was it that successfully argued that slaves were necessary, that philosophy was better than experiment, and that dictatorship was for the good of the people?
Everyone single Eupatrid worth two salts. They were correct in their reasoning considering the political realities of their time.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 07:03:11 2013 No.5421601 [DELETED]

>>5421587
Slaves are necessary we have found a way to outsource the slavery to fully controlled and bred bloodlines of beasts and autonomous machines that can't complain, but society couldn't function without some degree of slavery.

The proper design of an experiment is the most important aspect of the experiment and that relies largely on philosophy.

It is easier on people and groups and less chaotic for society to be controlled by a dictatorship, but the "goodness" of it largely hinges on the benevolence/malevolence of the dictator.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 07:03:56 2013 No.5421606

>>5421580
Slaves are necessary we have found a way to outsource the slavery to fully controlled and bred bloodlines of beasts and autonomous machines that can't complain, but society couldn't function without some degree of slavery.

The proper design of an experiment is the most important aspect of the experiment and that relies largely on philosophy.

It is easier on people and groups and less chaotic for society to be controlled by a dictatorship, but the "goodness" of it largely hinges on the benevolence/malevolence of the dictator.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 07:32:16 2013 No.5421635

>>5421552
There are no mods that do work in /sci/ alone, mods come couple of times a day from other boards to clear the report que.
/sci/ might have a janitor or two, but it's clear that if they exist they can't be here most of the day.

/sci/ is small and slow board

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 07:32:31 2013 No.5421636 >>5421150 >>5421150 >>5421150 >>5421150 >>5421150 I don't usually respond here but this anon is the only one who spoke truthfully. Read this post and shut the fuck up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 07:39:16 2013 No.5421644 File: 86 KB, 1215x717, Irelia_Splash_0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421580 > Long live Ionia. Ionia shall not fall.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 07:40:31 2013 No.5421645

>>5421606
>Slaves are necessary we have found a way to outsource the slavery to fully controlled and bred bloodlines of beasts and autonomous machines that can't complain, but society couldn't function without some degree of slavery.

> implying slaves are more efficient than corporations
> implying the Greeks and Romans would have tried no harder to invent labor-replacing machines (such as the water mill) if slavery wasn't considering an acceptable solution.
> implying that machines are slaves

> The proper design of an experiment is the most important aspect of the experiment and that relies largely on philosophy.

It is obvious that you have not the faintest idea of what Plato actually wrote, let alone what he meant.

> It is easier on people and groups and less chaotic for society to be controlled by a dictatorship, but the "goodness" of it largely hinges on the benevolence/malevolence of the dictator.

Have you met humans? Power corrupts is a natural law with us. Dictatorships have always been oppressive and inefficient, though to be fair Athenian oligarchy ("democracy" by 5% of the population) was not much better.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 08:39:34 2013 No.5421698

>>5421120
>scientific community openly rejects any possibility that race and intelligence are correlated
Nope. We just don't advertise it because
a) average citizens CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH and
b) race is by far not the strongest factor regarding intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:17:19 2013 No.5421728 File: 242 KB, 864x648, 1241216174231.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421148 If races are bullshit how would you explain this picture?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:20:19 2013 No.5421730 >>5421728 For fucks's sake, read this >>5421150 and fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:23:49 2013 No.5421733 File: 247 KB, 1431x800, asdasdasd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421728 Black people 2000 years ago looks more like this.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:35:15 2013 No.5421743

>Logical fallacy

I hate hate hate hate like that phrase. People here learn what they are in 8th grade English classes before writing argumentative essays. It's every 20-something's favorite thing to pepper into a conversation because it makes them sound just so so smart. The best time to hear it is in a humanities class like philosophy (which they make you take no matter what your major is). Oh my gosh.

>The best time to hear it is when two people are having an argument and one guy starts rattling off well-made points and the other responds with essentially "WELL, UMM, THAT'S A LOGICAL FALLACY BECAUSE IT'S A *insert a logical fallacy type from the list of those we learned in 8th grade* SO YOU'RE WRONG" without addressing any of the points the other guy made.

>inb4 autism

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:36:01 2013 No.5421749 >>5421120 /pol/ this is not science related

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:36:15 2013 No.5421747

Even though we know that intelligence has a heritable component, we have not yet demonstrated that population-level differences in intelligence arise from that heritable component as opposed to the not-insignificant environmental component.

You are making an unfounded, unscientific leap in reasoning by assuming that inheritance on an individual level is the major factor explaining variation on a population level, especially for such a squishy trait as intelligence.

That's why we reject it, because we have no good evidence to support the position, which means that if you're asserting that position, you have non-scientific reasons compelling you to do so.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:36:45 2013 No.5421748

>>5421730
What resources which are placed in Europe lack in Africa? Of course, I agree that there are some black people who are smarter than some of the caucasians, but we are now discussing avarage IQ of the race. How will you explain the fact that in numerous African countries people are still living in tribes, like white people used to live thausands of years ago? Also huts made of mud and cow shit.
I'd also like to mension the current situation in the USA. Blacks make around 12% of population, but they also commit 55% of total crimes. What are you going to say know? inb4 no source
http://www.radford.edu/~junnever/bw.htm
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/usa/racewar.htm
Go back to reddit and be whiteknight there.
>>5421733
>implying egyptians are black

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:37:30 2013 No.5421752 >>5421743 ths;dr (too high school;didn't read)

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:52:16 2013 No.5421775

>>5421748
They are living in tribes because they don't feel related to the rest of inhabitants of their country. For them, family bonds are the only ones that exist, since anything else is circumstantial and artifficial. They have lacked the elements that made Europe rise: Being united under a big empire ( at least once), sharing a culture and a religion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:55:15 2013 No.5421778 >>5421748 Africa lacks water. Hell, have you ever seen the news or a documentary?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 09:58:15 2013 No.5421779 >>5421748 >thausands >mension >know Seriously?

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:08:00 2013 No.5421790

>>5421148
>The fact is that the people who make the thread carry racial ideologies and they want to feel good about said ideologies
THE FACT IS that this issue is politically relevant. The assumption that the racial gaps in achievement within majority white countries are caused by environmental factors is used as motivation for many policies that would be malicious and/or wasteful if the racial gaps were inherent to some degree.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:14:31 2013 No.5421799

>>5421743
>without addressing any of the points the other guy made
If the guy cannot come up with a logically consistent reasoning, he is not worth my time. There are tons of people lining up, begging for my attention and support. I can afford to be picky, so he needs to meet my standards or deal with me dismissing him.

>>	None !!BJiYgff8zf2 Tue Jan 8 10:14:45 2013 No.5421800 >>5421775 >implying family bonds aren't circumstantial

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:15:30 2013 No.5421803

>>5421150
What a fuckup this comment was.
>gene differences between races are minor, ergo phenotype differences are minor.
No. Single mutations can have tremendous impacts on phenotypes.
>IQ tests are biased towards higher levels of education
No. Early intervention programs such as Headstart and the Abercedarian project failed to produce lasting IQ gains.
>Growth on civilisations
This I can agree with
>Historic African societies... Egypt
Okay... just to be sure, you know the Egyptians weren't what we would call black, right?
>averages
correct
>treat people individually
In cases where it is practical, I would.
For example, I would hire a person based on merit, not statistical averages.
But, I am going to put in a little effort to avoid rowdy negro teens on the street, because of statistical averages.

>>	None !!BJiYgff8zf2 Tue Jan 8 10:16:30 2013 No.5421805 File: 425 KB, 1000x1000, lol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421748 >ourcivilisation.com lel. Fuck off.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:18:15 2013 No.5421807

>>5421790
> THE FACT IS that this issue is politically relevant.
No it is not. Even if there were racially caused differences, there would be no reason to abandon individual assessment. If I hire the most qualified engineers a scientifically thinking person, I don't give a damn whether they all black or gay or female. Because those are irrelevant attributes for my goal at hand.

One needs to be racist in order to find race relevant outside of issues where race is task-related.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:20:49 2013 No.5421809

>>5421198
There's that word again
"racist"
What a retarded drone you are.
You can't debate the cause of differences of gaps in achievement between race so you retort to your petty, vague insult.
Yes, "racism" is a vague term.
The honest have no need for the term.
It has many different, often conflated meanings
This means that someone who describes the racial gaps in IQ to genetic differences is grouped with someone who wants to exterminate all the brown people.
It is dishonest.
It is not useful.
If you want to describe someone who hates on the basis of race, use the term "race hater", it is infinitely more explanatory.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:21:49 2013 No.5421811 >>5421189 Why does it not belong here? Is psychometrics not scientific? Is evolutionary biology not scientific?

>>	Mr. Politeness. !!omFI0WqakUl Tue Jan 8 10:25:49 2013 No.5421814 >>5421120 Excuse me, Sir. Are you in fact the same fellow that compares human 'races' to dog breeds, and then goes on to say that certain breeds are 'more' intelligent?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:26:50 2013 No.5421817 >>5421120 back to >>>/pol/ not science related

>>	"sage" Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:28:34 2013 No.5421821 File: 41 KB, 333x493, 1330668374201.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] pol/10 take your ass back to >>>/pol/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:34:51 2013 No.5421829 fuck you

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 10:42:04 2013 No.5421849

>>5421120
The problem with your image is it's inherently flawed.

There is little reason for a person living in a subtropical or tropical environment to need to build housing since you can literally walk outside naked without fear of being killed by the weather. The same cannot be said of parts of the world where it regularly has seasons thus driving human innovation. You could say in fact, that almost all human innovation sprang from the desire to grow food in an environment ill suited for the task and the desire to be warm.

When food is plentiful and easy and when the weather is lovely year round there's next to no reason to advance society. This is true in all parts of the world. Just look at natives of southeast asia, australia, and much of north and south america. The only people that seemed to advance their civilization out of the stone age who lived in an area with mild weather, those of central america, lived in an area where the soil is also extremely poor which drove them to innovate and led them to an advanced society.

Clear?

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:25:08 2013 No.5422165

>>5421148
>>5421150
>>5421157
>>5421161
>>5421164
>>5421164
>>5421165
>>5421175
>>5421177
>>5421184
>>5421193
>>5421204
>>5421216
>>5421222
>>5421220
>>5421224
>>5421230
>>5421232
>>5421235
>>5421234
>>5421238
>>5421243
>>5421244
>>5421313
>>5421352
>>5421730
>>5421733
>>5421749
>>5421752
>>5421805
>>5421829
>>5421821
JIDF detected

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:26:53 2013 No.5422167 >>5422165 Not STEM detected. Cant into genetics? Want to argue about races while you haven´t take even a intro to biology course? stay on >>>/pol/

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:38:53 2013 No.5422202

>>5421120

Even if people are different, that doesn't give you reasons to be a complete dick to different humans, as you would to different organisms. Their sentience is worth enough not to treat them as you would an animal. Regardless if intelligence correlates with race, an "inferior human" adjective should not implied.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:38:53 2013 No.5422203

There is more genetic variances between individuals than between the "racial groups".

Same two parents can have genious and borderline retarded stupid kids living in the same environment and with same genetic background. And the problem isnt always whitch genes you have, which are activated and which are not is part of that whole mess too.

Most of this average IQ difference however can be explained by how people use their brains in childhood &
adolescence and to that culture & education contributes the most.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:38:53 2013 No.5422204 70 years ago white people had an IQ that would be equivalent of a retard by today's standards.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:42:54 2013 No.5422210 >>5422202 Look at the black people in USA. They commit more then half of the total crimes in spite of the fact that they are minority. And you want us not to hate them?

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:43:53 2013 No.5422216

>>5422204
Clearly you do not understand how IQ works, it is normalized to the population, in a population of geniuses 100 would be genius, similarly when people were generally uneducated idiots 70 years ago 100 may have been a dumbfuck but since he was average it was still 100.

And to seriously pretend african americans live in conditions today comparable to whites 70 years ago is just fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:51:23 2013 No.5422235 >>5422210 USA >white kids mass murdering at school every month Yeah not this is not science related, your view is so subjective. >>>/pol/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 13:56:23 2013 No.5422248 >>5421120 >>>/pol/ please go. Come back when you have new non-fabricated evidence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:01:23 2013 No.5422269 File: 36 KB, 476x541, camper-angle.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5422248

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:08:24 2013 No.5422300 >>5422269 coff* fabricated coff*

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:11:24 2013 No.5422310 >>5422216 I don't think you know what the word "equivalent" means >And to seriously pretend african americans live in conditions today comparable to whites 70 years ago is just fucking retarded. I don't see where that was implied in my post.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:15:23 2013 No.5422321 >>5422269 I've never seen a black person like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:16:08 2013 No.5422322 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:16:24 2013 No.5422323

>>5421120
Every individual is unique. Fine a large number of a certain racial group may have distinct characteristics and mannerisms like chinese being short. It doesn't necessarily mean that all of them are. Same goes for africans and native americans, etc. Not all of them are bright, but few individuals/ small percentage of the population are.

>inb4 asian
>inb4 nigger
>inb4 sympathiser
>inb4 can't inb4
>inb4 can't inb4 inb4

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:17:39 2013 No.5422326 So what happens when we accept some races are dumber than others?

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:18:08 2013 No.5422328

Genetics and race are not the same thing. Its possible that a white man have more black DNA than a dark skin manned, depending on both of their ancestry. The only way to make genetics relevant would be to give every single person a DNA test

Well, Im glad we cleared that up, OP

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:27:47 2013 No.5422346 >>5422326 We enslave them

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:29:47 2013 No.5422352 >>5421811 >Is psychometrics not scientific? Definitely not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:32:17 2013 No.5422357 >>5422326 Nothing that wouldn't still be factually racist when applied to individuals. And besides why would that change anything when we have some many systems put in place already to gauge who is capable and who isn't?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:33:57 2013 No.5422361 >>5422326 Ordered by IQ: Jews become the ruling class (well they already are) Asians middle management. Whites and Spics become working class. Niggers/abbos become slaves/disposables (used for human experimentation, etc).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:34:58 2013 No.5422363 >>5422328 >Hurr durr I don't even know the slightest thing about genetics

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:35:27 2013 No.5422365

>>5422235
There you go, white people also have weaknesses. Some of us are mentally unstable, we have rednecks, chavs, trash. Some people are better, some are worse. The same goes for every race. But there are some races which have higher dumb/agressive people percentage.
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/usa/racewar.htm

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:38:13 2013 No.5422371 >>5422361 Thank you for your insights Alex Jones.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:38:44 2013 No.5422372 >>5422326 >>5422361 How about the exceptions, I mean, we ared doing this, assuming that all members of a race are exactly the same, what do we do with the few high iq individuals from these other races?

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:38:57 2013 No.5422373

Outside of the fertile land around the Nile, Africa is a bleached furnace.

In many countries, that type of shelter is the only realistic mean to repel heat with the resources available to them.

Whatever wealth comes from the few exports they have is distributed to a small few.

Whereas... Italy is a temperate paradise that had, at the time, was in an ideal location for trade.

Use your brain.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:40:12 2013 No.5422374 >>5422361 What about gypsies? >inb4 they are not considered humans

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:42:13 2013 No.5422377

>>5422361
What jews, i know for a fact that sephardic jews have scored less iq points when compared to their half-bred, european counterparts, the ashkenazis.

Also, ashkenazis score high only in mathematical and spoken aspects of intelligence, other aspects eg spatial are dominated by other races, like asians, cushites, nordic etc

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:45:42 2013 No.5422383 >>5422372 We could create exams in several subjects to find out intelligence of participants. These exams would be used worldwide. 75%-100% Ruler tier 50-75% Management tier 25-50% Working class 0%-25% Pathetic shit tier Thius would be a perfect world

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:45:58 2013 No.5422384 >>5422374 >>5422377 Why are you guys feeding this troll?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:48:57 2013 No.5422388 >>5422384 It'd be rude to let it starve. :)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:49:58 2013 No.5422392 >>5422388 >:) Back to the motherfucking reddit

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:52:58 2013 No.5422398

>>5421120
Op and the rest of the thread lurkers. I have a better proposition. Since pure blooded individuals are slowly fading away and the world is getting more multicultural.

How about we get a new grading system? Based on actual iq scores and not race.

Then we can assign high social status to those individuals with the highest iq points and intelligence.

>tldr; individuals, not clans/race/countries

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:53:42 2013 No.5422401 >>5422398 See this >>5422383

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 14:56:12 2013 No.5422405

>>5422392
Funny, i have never really spent that much time on reddit. I really hate the entire interface and website architecture, it's more of a link sharing contest than a community really.

>Oh i forgot, no smiling
>but sorry i don't abide to rules
>:)

>i do whatever the fuck i want
>get on my level niqqa
>shaneiqua b trippin fo sho
>odd future 66666
>piece out

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 15:02:12 2013 No.5422419 >>5422405 Nothing personal, but your text looks childish if you add :) or any other shit.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 15:12:58 2013 No.5422435

>>5421551
Whatevs, I'm just saying that science and art didn't really flourish under the Romans.
People have an idea that the dark ages (Christianity) came about and put a halt to advancement. But things had stagnated long before then during the Roman period.
Dont get me wrong, I love Rome and it will probably remain as the most interesting and important civilisation in the West's history for a very long time, but they had no equal to Homer, Aeschylus, Phidias or any of the numerous great philosophers of Greece. The amount that Ancient Greece sometimes gets overlooked and Rome over-acknowledged is something worth correcting.

PS - Im pretty sure the Romans still spent half their time fighting and trying to kill each other just in Rome, even when they covered most of Europe.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 17:38:52 2013 No.5422832 >>5422383 >>5422398 >>5422401 >This would be a perfect world It truly would.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 17:57:07 2013 No.5422873 >>5422383 >>5422398 > How about we get a new grading system? Based on actual iq scores and not race. > tfw part of Mensan Masterrace > tfw ascension from Black ethnicity I'm okay with this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 18:26:10 2013 No.5422955 >>5422383 That's retarded. Too many rulers. Better distribution 97%-100% ruler tier 90%-96% management tier 65%-89% worker tier 47%-64% slave tier <47% kicked out of society completely. must fend for self in wilderness.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 18:27:56 2013 No.5422960 >>5422383 >implying everyone on /sci/ wouldn't be in pathetic shit tier

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 18:32:54 2013 No.5422972 >>5421803 >No. Early intervention programs such as Headstart and the Abercedarian project failed to produce lasting IQ gains. How can you be this stupid?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 19:10:56 2013 No.5423042 File: 26 KB, 539x422, dr-neil-degrasse-tyson-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Sup, watcha guys talking about?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 19:24:11 2013 No.5423070 >>5421124 implying gooks and niggers can't breed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 19:36:12 2013 No.5423086 >>5422398 >IQ social construct. not everyone was raised to know all 26 letters of the Latin alphabet.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 19:39:26 2013 No.5423092

>>5421803
not going to bump this because shit thread.

I'm the guy from >>5421150

I'm probably going to reuse my post for the inevitable threads like this that will be posted in the future, with a clarification on this point from >>5421803 (specifically >No. Single mutations can have tremendous impacts on phenotypes.).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 19:39:40 2013 No.5423093 >>5423086 This is America, we don't speak Latin, We speak English.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 19:42:57 2013 No.5423099 >start a thread about something even vaguely related to philosophy >only replies are bitching about following the rules >get banned >Start a thread about how racism is valid because of insert pseudoscientific justification >300 replies >no ban

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 19:46:10 2013 No.5423110 >>5423042 Just a bunch of retards trying to justify their inferiority/superiority complex by manipulation of scientific/numerical data because they confused /sci/ for /pol/. All of this would've been solved if abortion was more widely available.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:38:24 2013 No.5423138 >>5421120 >>common sense suggests that different races have different genes common sense suggests that members of the same race have different genes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:39:09 2013 No.5423139 you are aware, OP, that the coliseum isn't actually that large, and your image is CGI...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:39:54 2013 No.5423143 >>5421120 >Common Sense Common sense says that solid objects aren't mostly empty space.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:40:25 2013 No.5423144 >>5421131 people of different races can be equal that is not unscientific. i think you are confused. also, sage.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:40:54 2013 No.5423146
File: 719 KB, 1000x1104, af.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>implying intellegence correlates to a society that is focused on convenience instead of happiness, technology instead of necessity, complexity instead of simplicity, night lights instead of a starry sky
>implying intellegence is not a word for a potential that can only be perceived when applied
>implying IQ matters the slightest
>implying you can look down on people who are less intelligent
>implying you're not just typical stormfront cowboy that could better as well be posting in /b/
>implying science should work to please your biased values of how a great life should be lead
>implying history "progresses"
>implying you just not say that because of your cultural upbringing, just like with any other religious nut with his "one true religion"
pic so fucking related

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:42:09 2013 No.5423148 i'm not going to have respect or value you because of the race you associate with.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:46:54 2013 No.5423159 >>5423146 See, why does the african pic have to have the most tribal, backwards areas represented. That's like comparing the Malinese with the celts.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:51:42 2013 No.5423175 >>5421216 Lewontin's fallacy. It does not matter if there is more difference between the individual members of a group than between groups.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:54:12 2013 No.5423191

>>5423146

Dat rage post and dat pic

>implying that pic isn't biased because it shows smiling tribal people and the worst parts of modern society- somehow implying the tribal people are happier
>implying the top row of pics weren't staged for maximum impact and tribal people are actually happy
>implying the average homeless man isn't better off than many african tribes

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:54:57 2013 No.5423190

>>5421230
>YOU NEED TO PROVE THAT SUPERFICIAL PHENOTYPE DIFFERENCES CAUSE COGNITIVE DIFFERENCES
Strawman. No one is saying that. We are saying that between groups identified as races, of which superficial traits are indicators, there are cognitive differences.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:55:42 2013 No.5423195 >>5423175 >Lewontin's fallacy you need a priori definition of what constitutes each race before it can be determined that testing for alleles can be determined to distinguish races.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 20:57:27 2013 No.5423197

>>5423190
>We are saying that between groups identified as races, of which superficial traits are indicators, there are cognitive differences.

I am certainly not saying that. There are not necessarily any differences between two people from different races.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:02:57 2013 No.5423206

>>5421341
You lack the ability to think imaginatively.
Cognitive functions occur in the brain. The brain is an organ. Like all organs it is costly to construct and operate. The construction and operation of brain tissue costs energy and nutrients. The larger the brain, the stronger the load bearing structures of the brain, such as the neck and spine, need to be. Thus, intelligence comes at a cost.
>selective pressure favoring intelligence is equal among all regions
assertions.
If intelligence is equal among all regions, why is it that different species have differing levels of intelligence?
(It's because you made it up)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:04:54 2013 No.5423210 File: 5 KB, 120x99, Nigga_you_just_went_full_WHY.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5421733 >Egyptians >Black

>>	Kevin Tue Jan 8 21:05:18 2013 No.5423211 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teyvcs2S4mI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVmj8dDx9yY if you actually want to learn some things, look at these videos.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:07:03 2013 No.5423218 >>5423191 Right. Because pictures like the one in the OP aren't biased either.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:16:33 2013 No.5423231

>>5421807
You didn't read what I said.
The assumption of descriptive innate racial equality with respect to IQ is used as justification for policies that I, and many others, believe to be damaging. The egalitarians attribute the gaps to environmental factors, and then strive to 'narrow the gap', such as with the policies of affirmative action and other policies that attack whites and NE Asians.
On a long enough time scale, affirmative action harms racial groups that are neither white nor NE Asian.
The compounding growth of the economy is limited by economic inefficiency. Affirmative action promotes people who are less apt - an act that promotes economic inefficiency. Economic inefficiency causes compounding limitations to growth.
By promoting non-NE Asian racial minorities at the expense of NE Asians and Whites, as affirmative action does, you are in fact harming non-NE Asian minorities far in the future, who will be worse off due to compounding negative effects of economic inefficiency

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:19:20 2013 No.5423237

>>5422203
>Retarded people can have genius kids, geniuses can have retarded kids
Correct, but there is a strong tendency for retarded people to have children who are less intelligent and for geniuses to have children who are more intelligent. Look up heritability estimates for IQ, please.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:21:35 2013 No.5423240

>>5423231
>On a long enough time scale

THe idea is that it is for the short term.

Women are bad at math because noone teaches them math.
Noone teaches women math because women just aren't as good at math.

see the issue? if you can change the culture to believe that "women are just as good as men at math" then you will get a population of women who are better at math than before.

>>5423237
watch
>>5423211
seriously.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:22:35 2013 No.5423247

>>5422322
The height of both men and women have increased drastically since medieval times, does that mean genetics contributes nothing to the gap in height between men and women?
Furthermore, the increase in IQ of blacks and whites and the narrowing of IQ between blacks and whites was only observed on IQ tests that changed, such as WAIS and Stanford Binet, and not on tests that remained the same, such as Wonderlic.

Confirmational Bias Thread Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:22:50 2013 No.5423249

All right OP, another carbon copy of your bullshit has arrived. Perhaps already mentioned somewhere else but regardless, the whole thread begs the idea of "race" as a single, inmutable, indistinguishable trait, while the reality is that geographical distributions of people lead to a continuum of traits that extends from one group to the other. While you go ahead and attack the "social construct" term, you failed to understand its meaning: it means something agreed and acted upon by the people responsible for its creation. For example countries, treaties, ranks are all "social constructs" but they exert a specific role and have very real effects on the world around us despite the fact that there are no naturally ordained statues or country barriers--it's all about how it's defined. The same concept applies to "race" where the line between A and B is drawn and determined by politics, regardless of the color line or group of people in consideration.

Besides this, I agree with >>5421148. This is a self-serving thread done principally to validate politically held biases, not to actually discuss a legitimate scientific question. OP must be yet another rebellious teen engorged with the idea of rebellion by devil advocacy: "society thinks A but B's propaganda has got me on my knees, thinking I'm different and above all because I oppose mainstream views. Look what a great luminary I've become!"

tl;dr I rather see the Christian vs Evolution threads started by equally anxious teens coping with the stirrings of childhood notions than this more direct political propaganda pushing bigger agendas.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:24:20 2013 No.5423255 >>5422326 We stop affirmative action We stop the state granting non-whites special privileges

>>	Kevin Tue Jan 8 21:24:51 2013 No.5423256 >>5423255 see >>5423240

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:26:35 2013 No.5423262

>>5422328
Okay... but you are conflating race with skin colour.
The fact of the matter is, genetic structure corresponds almost perfectly to self identified race, as seen in the study
"Genetic structure, self-identified race/ethnicity and confounding in case controlled association studies".

sarcasm Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:30:50 2013 No.5423272

>>5423042
Oh man, you sure proved me wrong!
I never knew there were intelligent black people!
Averages are completely irrelevant in discussing the causes of racial differences!
In fact, I once knew a 90 year old man who could deadlift, squat and bench more than most twenty year olds, therefore, 90 year olds are stronger than 20 year olds.

>>>/reddit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:32:17 2013 No.5423279 >>5423086 I don't think you know the meaning of "social construct". 'Species' is a social construct as it cannot be defined absolutely with zero ambiguity. It is not clear where a species begins or ends. 'truck' is also a social construct.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:34:33 2013 No.5423280 niggers are dumb. Man up gentlemen. I don't really need any evidence. I've collected my own. The specific niggers I've personally observed have been fucking dumb.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:35:32 2013 No.5423284 >>5423086 That's why there exists IQ tests that do not use language at all, such as Raven's progressive matrices. And IQ tests can be taken in native languages/

>>	Kevin Tue Jan 8 21:36:47 2013 No.5423287 >>5423262 see >>5423211 seriously, those vidoes >>5423284 god dammit. at this point you are trolling or seriously stupid. watch: >>5423211

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:37:17 2013 No.5423290 >>5423138 Wow, you sure showed him! Oh wait, you didn't. >common sense suggests that members of the same race have different genes. What is your point?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:38:17 2013 No.5423291 >>5423143 OP shouldn't have said 'common sense', but different races do have different genes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:38:47 2013 No.5423292 >>5423144 Did he suggest otherwise?

>>	Kevin Tue Jan 8 21:40:32 2013 No.5423298 everytime someone says something that is explained in those videos I will link back to them. Hopefully people will educate themselves eventually. >>5423291 see >>5423211

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:43:17 2013 No.5423306

>>5423195
Okay
My definition of what constitutes a race is defined by the racial clusters formed by organising groups based on microsatellite markers as in the study
"Genetic Structure, Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, and Confounding in Case-Control Association Studies"
with self-identified race being used in case of ambiguity.

Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:46:32 2013 No.5423319

>>5423211
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teyvcs2S4mI
I'm normally a fan of c0nc0rdance, but in these videos, he done goof'd.
>races are fuzzy sets
Correct, but there is near perfect correspondence between race and genetic structure, as seen in the study Genetic Structure, Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, and Confounding in Case-Control Association Studies.

Kevin Tue Jan 8 21:47:32 2013 No.5423322

>>5423306
I think that your markers are full of shit, and that "self identified" is about as usefull as "god told me that...".

Go watch the videos, seriously, they aren't a waste of time. the guy actually does research and posts sources and shit.

>>5423319
link to that study?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 8 21:55:57 2013 No.5423346 nairobi addis abeba windhoek lusaka asmara gaborone maseru ouagadougou kigali etc stick to the genetics research/performance studies, they're your best bet

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