/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:40:24 2012 No.5357776 [Reply] [Original]

>Bruce Lahn, a professor of human genetics at the University of Chicago, stood before a packed lecture hall and reported the results of a new DNA analysis: He had found signs of recent evolution in the brains of some people, but not of others.

>It was a triumphant moment for the young scientist. He was up for tenure and his research was being featured in back-to-back articles in the country's most prestigious science journal. Yet today, Dr. Lahn says he is moving away from the research. "It's getting too controversial," he says.

>Dr. Lahn had touched a raw nerve in science: race and intelligence.

>Dr. Lahn told his audience was that genetic changes over the past several thousand years might be linked to brain size and intelligence. He flashed maps that showed the changes had taken hold and spread widely in Europe, Asia and the Americas, but weren't common in sub-Saharan Africa.

>Dr. Lahn says he was moved when a student asked him whether some "knowledge might not be worth having"

Science is for truth, not subject to social expectations.

Discuss.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB115040765329081636-T5DQ4jvnwqOdVvsP_XSVG_lvgik_20060628.html

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:42:10 2012 No.5357779 File: 10 KB, 245x246, really3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >some knowledge might not be worth having

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:42:54 2012 No.5357780 File: 367 KB, 320x240, nigger alarm.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >knowledge might not be worth having

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:43:39 2012 No.5357782 File: 151 KB, 288x288, louis.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >knowledge might not be worth having

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:45:54 2012 No.5357786 File: 179 KB, 985x1200, travis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >knowledge might not be worth having Fucking leftards and their egalitarianist bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:46:24 2012 No.5357790 File: 7 KB, 300x168, Heart Crushing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >knowledge might not be worth having

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:46:40 2012 No.5357791

Oh well hopefully someone with more balls takes this research up (I'm pretty confident about that). Sad that someone brilliant got taken off his research just like that but this is the world and not everyone will like what you do and sometimes what you do no matter how right will garner more hate than praise

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:47:09 2012 No.5357792 >stormfag makes up some crap about races existing and being different >hurr knowledge Fuck off white racists

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:47:39 2012 No.5357793 >>5357792 Bruce Lahn is chinese.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:51:12 2012 No.5357796 /sci/ was so fucking anally ravaged in the last thread about race and intelligence, I don't think they can take anymore

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:56:25 2012 No.5357804 >>5357792 >stormfag /sci/, where we don't even bother to read the referenced links anymore.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:57:39 2012 No.5357808 sounds like a pretty typical hapmap or maybe even the more recent 1000 genomes project sensationalism. unfortunately, they do not specify this, and instead, wsj paints a picture of this guy as some lone scientific crusader. fucking science journalism

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 07:58:54 2012 No.5357809 >people can have opposite traits in height, skin colour, tendancy for diseases, etc. >but mental capacity must be the same across the range shit doesnt make sense.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:01:09 2012 No.5357815

The truth is, the question of intelligence and genetics is still very much open. It is a very complex matter, most iof it unknown. I am no racist, but pretending that genetics (including the genes varying along racial lines) plays little role in intelligence is based only on wishfull thinking and political climate. The opposite view is also largely unfounded, tough.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:01:54 2012 No.5357814 >>5357809 >okay to categorize breeds of dogs in terms of intelligence >not ok to categorize human breeds in terms of intelligence

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:02:55 2012 No.5357818 >>5357815 >the question of intelligence and genetics is still very much open This is what racist nazis actually believe

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:05:54 2012 No.5357821 >>5357792 >being this anti-science on the science board

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:07:24 2012 No.5357825 >>5357814 >categorize human breeds in terms of intelligence That would look neat in science books, but what would be the social effect? how is this and egalitarism mutually exclusive?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:08:54 2012 No.5357827 >>5357779 >>5357780 >>5357782 >>5357786 >>5357790 Maybe because retards like to take this sort of stuff and misrepresent it in white supremacy propaganda and things of the sort? Go back to /pol/ guys.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:09:24 2012 No.5357829 >>5357818 >being that retarded is this /sci/ or should we be renamed /politicalcorrectnessandbullshit/ ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:09:54 2012 No.5357828 >>5357827 >white supremacist propogands >research by a chinese guy that says Jews are the smartest race

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:09:54 2012 No.5357832 >>5357796 And I missed it like so often before. It saddens me that most of the action on 4chan always happens when we yuros are asleep.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:10:39 2012 No.5357834 >>5357818 >>5357808 >>5357827 butthurt nigger detected

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:11:09 2012 No.5357840 >>5357825 The whole egalitarianism is based on the fact that even if people are different, they need to have the same rights. How are they mutually exclusives ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:11:39 2012 No.5357842 >>5357827 >read facts that go against your world view >don't change your world view, get buttangry and shout "supremacist! gb2/pol/" It's like this board is full of evangelical Christians.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:11:54 2012 No.5357843 >>5357818 >the question of intelligence and genetics is not subject to debate or scientific inquiry /pol/ here, you guys sure are "scientists".

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:11:55 2012 No.5357837 >>5357776 Well that's just fucking sad.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:11:55 2012 No.5357838 >>5357828 This. Those idiots don't even read anything.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:13:10 2012 No.5357847

>>5357840
>Egalitarianism - Affirming, promoting, or characterized by belief in equal political, economic, social, and civil rights for all people.

Since all races are not the same, giving the same opportunities will not lead to equal outcomes, so instead of blaming any failure on racism and instituting shit like Affirmative Action, we should let the chips fall where they may.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:13:10 2012 No.5357848 >>5357843 It's 4chan, not physicsforums. This is mainly a philosophy/homework forum.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:14:39 2012 No.5357851 >>5357776 yes, that's what I am saying

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:15:39 2012 No.5357853 >>5357847 But you're absolutely correct.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:15:39 2012 No.5357854 >>5357847 >equal political, economic, social, and civil rights for all people >will not lead to equal outcomes not mutually exclusive again, and I'm a dirty leftist scum

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:16:39 2012 No.5357856 >>5357843 jesus /pol/, this is a slow board, stop freaking out when a handful people parrot stereotypes about your board

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:18:55 2012 No.5357858 >>5357818 >Science; like religion only not open to interpretation

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:19:54 2012 No.5357859

>>5357854
No, the idea that there should only be equal rights and chances and then just let things go their way is an idea from the right.

Leftists also pretend to defend "equality of opportunities", but in reality they ALWAYS use figures like "how many [miniority] in [position]?"
They care about equality of situations, really.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:20:54 2012 No.5357864 >>5357859 I don't even want to know in which shithole do you live to have such leftists.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:22:39 2012 No.5357868 >>5357864 The western world.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:23:55 2012 No.5357869 >>5357864 >implying leftists in your own shithole don't use figures like "there are not enough wymyn in position of power" or "not enoughe black people in director boards"

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:24:09 2012 No.5357870 >>5357869 >>5357868 No, they use figures like "there is not enough people from poor backgrounds in position of power" Fucking racist sexist scum.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:24:39 2012 No.5357871 /pol/ here, shall we lube up for your raping /sci/, or go in dry like we did yesterday?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:26:24 2012 No.5357874 >>5357871 Maybe with sand, broken glass and mustard.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:26:39 2012 No.5357875 >>5357864 in this shithole over here we have the same thing, except it's male/female.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:27:39 2012 No.5357876 >>5357870 They use all three, you must not read newspaper often.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:27:54 2012 No.5357877 I'd like to point out how easily /sci/ turned into /pol/

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:29:54 2012 No.5357879 >>5357870 Which is only a relevant statistic if you use the unproven assertion that people from poor backgrounds are as meritorious as people from rich backgrounds.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:30:24 2012 No.5357883 >>5357877 You mean anti-science?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:30:24 2012 No.5357884 >>5357876 They can't use both "there are not enough wymyn in position of power" or "not enough black people in director boards" here. It's called discrimination and it's against the law. How does it feel to live in a shitty hatefest ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:31:54 2012 No.5357885 >>5357877 >one thread about something >guys we are totally /pol/ right now You shouldn't worry, homework and qualia threads are still here.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:32:39 2012 No.5357889 >>5357879 The legitimacy of this is a whole story altogether. At least our leftists aren't racist sexist bigots here, compared to the multiculti crowd.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:33:55 2012 No.5357890 >>5357884 I suppose you're french. That only applies to race, you can do those statistics for women. http://www.femmesaaeena.com/pdf/reperes/entreprises_orse.pdf

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:36:09 2012 No.5357896
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>>5357809
We do this because we mostly believe intelligence should highly factor in social standing. This however is a system that believes it is only on individual merit, and fears research like this as the precursor to a racial precedent.

However, though we are aware of it, it doesn't change the idea that individual merit cannot still be rewarded. It merely adds a context of mental capacity being higher in other places than Africa. Maybe something to do with the protein content of those regions, or the various regional benefits that led to this natural selection for intelligence. Sub-Saharan Africa has dick for protein or an environment that favor tools, maybe mental capacity wasn't selected for in the society under that matter. I don't know.

Racial differences don't need to have a racist context. They can probably easily be explained through other means. The fact that we're nervous about getting into this is good, fear of our past transgressions means we want to change. But, we shouldn't fear exploring data that might not be comfortable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:36:39 2012 No.5357897 >>5357890 True, but that report is like 9yo. And even after that report nobody asked for laws favouring women. Not even feminists, they called for a mentality change. Which is good, btw.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:37:54 2012 No.5357899 >>5357776 >Dr. Wells [...] won't study the brain. "I think there is very little evidence of IQ differences between races," he says. THERE IS NO DATA AVAILABLE THAT INDICATES THIS I WILL NOT COLLECT DATA THAT MAY INDICATE THIS I cry every time.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:43:54 2012 No.5357909

>>5357825
You know what i read out of "knowledge might not be worth having"?
"I a as liberal might turn on my believe if my beloved science says my political believe is based on false pretenses."

Just imagine that. Why else should he care if there are differences discovered, when it is his believe to treat every one equal and not the fact that everyone is. Should the latter for a liberal even be important, when all what the liberal does is change the way society interacts?

You know what he really says? " I might start to hate other people based on their race."
Thats what i hear.
Liberal logic.

If we start accepting our differences, then we will discover special genes much quicker and we might even be able to breed the next generation of super humans.
That might sound ethical at first, but the only argument speaking against it is "muh feelings". The people living now will die eventually, so why not stop caring about their feelings and create a true equal human race based on the best traits of mankind?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:44:54 2012 No.5357914

>All these privileged white guys saying THIS IS FACT, WE SHOULD TELL EVERYONE AND BASE OUR SOCIETY OFF OF THIS!
You guys never think of it from the perspective of intelligent black people, do you?
You guys constantly complain about white males being discriminated against, yet have no problem condemning other people to that fate.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:46:24 2012 No.5357920

>>5357825
>what would be the social effect
That's the good old fallacy of "everyone is dumber than me".
You yourself don't think that such an outcome of science would change your egalitarian views, yet you believe it would change them for the masses.

>>5357897
Yeah well, hating the rich instead of hating the white. I'm not sure it's an improvement.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:46:54 2012 No.5357919 >>5357914 >won't someone think of the poor black people!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:47:09 2012 No.5357921 >>5357914 >BASE OUR SOCIETY OFF OF THIS Biggest strawman of the month, congrats.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:47:24 2012 No.5357923

>>5357914
This thread (especially the link you apparently havent checked) is about how scientific progress was stopped by someone saying "this might hurt someones feelings".

Thats all.

You read out of this racist shit.
But in reality you just WANT TO READ IT LIKE THAT.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:47:39 2012 No.5357924

>>5357914
What do the intelligent black people have to fear about this kind of research ? They are intelligent, they don't fall in the statistic thus there is no need to have them discriminated.

Even the most retarded /pol/ack agree that an intelligent decent black man is better than a dumb trailer trash white inbreed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:48:25 2012 No.5357925 >>5357920 >hating the rich wut ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:50:24 2012 No.5357928 >>5357925 >"let's remove elite classes because only rich kids get in them"

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:51:39 2012 No.5357932 >>5357924 Its a shame the smart+decent black man is so rare, compared to smart+decent people of other races.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:51:54 2012 No.5357931

>>5357924
>What do the intelligent black people have to fear about this kind of research ? They are intelligent, they don't fall in the statistic thus there is no need to have them discriminated.
AHAHAHAHAHA
Look at /pol/. That's what you get in society when racism becomes fact and science. There are NO exceptions in their eyes, so why would mainstream society ( arguably much dumber than /pol/ ) behave any differently?
You know that saying "a trained ape is still an ape"? That's what the intelligent blacks would have to deal with.
Case in point, >>5357919

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:53:24 2012 No.5357934 >>5357931 >"Let's hide the truth because /pol/" You are the worst kind of biggot.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:54:39 2012 No.5357936

>>5357928
In fact it's the exact opposite. The french public university system is really elitist while the high schools are uniformed under really high standards (at least until the last reform from Chatel). It works. I was born in a shitty suburb in a poor family and I attended the best engineering school in the country. My case isn't rare at all.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:55:24 2012 No.5357937 >>5357931 I concur , I'm aware about the realities of race but society as a whole is too stupid and or lazy to do anything constructive with the truth.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:56:09 2012 No.5357938 >>5357934 Who said anything about hiding the truth? I'm just saying what will happen if you are obsessed with making sure every retard knows about it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:56:09 2012 No.5357939 >>5357931 >There are NO exceptions in their eyes [citation needed]

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:57:25 2012 No.5357946 >>5357936 Well yeah it works, so why do leftists talk every year about removing them because it benefits rich people?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:58:54 2012 No.5357948 >>5357938 >you should not inform the general public >implying it's not hiding Really, is it gonna be like that? Pointless semantics?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 08:59:39 2012 No.5357950 >>5357939 /pol/. You don't even need to leave 4chan to know this.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:00:39 2012 No.5357952

>>5357946
>why do leftists talk every year about removing them
Removing what ? Elite universities and schools ? The government just signed a 300000K€ budget to renovate one of the best and most elitist engineering school in the country.

Please tell me it's because they want to close it right now.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:01:10 2012 No.5357954

>>5357914
This ISN'T a discrimination. It's a collection of information, and no one's saying society should be based off of it. Some would, but they're about as intelligent as the people who look at shellfish fossils in the mountains and say it's a global flood.

It's like saying that black people are more prone to sickle cell anemia and therefore all black people should be denied the right to give blood. It's not only something that doesn't happen, it's jumping to conclusions that make no sense. A predisposition that the median might be lower on a whole for IQ means very little to a family that still is able to be intelligent on a personal matter. This is interesting data, but I'm not letting it judge a man based on nothing but physical appearance. An intelligent man is an intelligent man, and an idiot's an idiot.

I try to judge on the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Some old guy from Atlanta taught me that one. Who was i- Oh yeah, David Cross.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:01:24 2012 No.5357955 >>5357936 >the high schools are uniformed under really high standards >uniformed Euh, déjà entendu parler de Ginette et LLG?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:01:39 2012 No.5357956

>, Alan Thomas, says his office is dropping a patent application filed last year that would cover using Dr. Lahn's work as a DNA-based intelligence test. "We really don't want to end up on the front page...for doing eugenics," Mr. Thomas says.

Is this the onion?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:02:25 2012 No.5357958 >>5357952 >leftist >the government Government parties are obviously less polarized than ideological parties, duh.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:03:54 2012 No.5357961 yeah, because the race truths are the only thing hidden to the general public. the noble crusaders of /pol/, in the name of infalted confirmation bias, arrive to show the truth to the world

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:04:39 2012 No.5357962 This is stupid The scientist should not concern himself with the social impact, that is the job of the politician. Do you think the scientists behind the atomic bomb thought about the impacts? Of course they did. Did they stop? No.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:06:39 2012 No.5357965 >>5357961 You are free to divulge other ones.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:06:54 2012 No.5357966

>>5357955
Ouais, mais je parlais du système public. Pour être honnête tu peux tout à fais réussir en venant du fond du fond de la banlieue en France. J'ai fais l'INSA de Lyon après être sorti de Marcel Sembat, le pire lycée du rhône sans aucun problème, et j'étais loin d'être le meilleur à Sembat.

Deux de mes camarades de classes de term ont fait les mines. Un autre a fait medecine sans retap'.

Ginette et LLG (ou le parc, ou less laza à Lyon), c'est quand même assez superflu. A part si tu as des gosses moyennement intelligents et que tu veux qu'ils aillent dans des facs au dessus de leurs capacités intellectuelles.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:07:09 2012 No.5357968 i knew this before the research. its obvious

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:08:25 2012 No.5357970 >>5357962 >Do you think the scientists behind the atomic bomb thought about the impacts? Of course they did. Did they stop? No. I think Oppenheimer got his security clearance revoked for opposing the h bomb.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:08:25 2012 No.5357971 >>5357962 Maybe there was an invisible gun pointing at their heads the whole time, you know what I mean.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:08:25 2012 No.5357972 >>5357965 gender truths are fine then?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:08:39 2012 No.5357973 >>5357958 Link me an article backing your previous claims, please. I am genuinely interested.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:09:10 2012 No.5357975 >>5357966 Sacre bleu la bouillabaisse Sarkozy Chiffon Orangina. A Socialisma oui oui oh ho ho~

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:09:10 2012 No.5357976 >>5357966 shut le mouth, this isn't /int/

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:09:54 2012 No.5357974 >>5357966 LLG est public, cependant. Quelle promo?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:09:54 2012 No.5357977 >>5357962 yeah but the reason why they didn't stop are obviously the same why we do shy back from doing this sort of thing now: propaganda and mass hysteria.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:10:09 2012 No.5357978 >>5357972 Not at all. You do realize people will call you misogynistic for that just as you are calling people racist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:10:25 2012 No.5357979 >>5357972 You don't need to ask for persmission.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:10:39 2012 No.5357980 >>5357974 Je suis sorti il y a 2 ans. Vrai pour LLG, tu me diras que le Parc aussi. Néanmoins ils font quand même le même programme que les autres.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:10:39 2012 No.5357981 >>5357962 It's not that I oppose this sort of research, but this information should be kept out of the hands of retards who don't know how to use it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:11:25 2012 No.5357983 >>5357973 http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/fin-de-la-gratuite-des-classes-prepa-une-piste-pour-le-gouvernement-17 -09-2012-1507103_23.php There is like, a debate every year about this.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:12:54 2012 No.5357984 >>5357981 Of course. I didn't say it shouldn't, but opposing the gathering of knowledge or any information because of perceived social impacts is a terrible crime

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:13:24 2012 No.5357986 >>5357981 Again, it's the "everyone is stupider than me" fallacy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:13:54 2012 No.5357985 >>5357978 >Not at all. I meant I don't mind, proceed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:14:24 2012 No.5357987 >>5357986 Who else are you going to give the WMD to? The Islamic supremacist down the street?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:15:09 2012 No.5357989 >>5357983 I realize it wasn't a very good example. Never mind: http://www.vincent-peillon.fr/vincent-peillon-je-suis-pour-la-suppression-des-grandes-ecoles-france- inter/363

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:15:09 2012 No.5357990 >>5357983 >article about instating post high-school education fees >you see they want to kill the rich!1!!!1!!one!!!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:15:09 2012 No.5357991 >Humans slaughtering each other in mass the past 2000 years >Oh its evolution not selected breeding :/

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:16:40 2012 No.5357995 >>5357990 see >>5357989 There are debates every year about it, you must be blind or not read the newspaper much.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:16:54 2012 No.5357994 >>5357987 >equating a technology to a scientific fact

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:17:09 2012 No.5357998 >>5357994 I'm not sure what you are advocating

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:17:09 2012 No.5357999 >>5357989 >"we must make our universities just as good as our best elite schools" >they want to kill the rich!1!!!!1!!!one!!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:17:54 2012 No.5357996 >>5357985 I suggest we take 200 female babboons and 200 males, attach strap ons to all females and observe what happens for two years.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:18:54 2012 No.5358002 >>5357998 Freedom of information and transparency. Hiding a technology is not the same thing as hiding the scientific truth about something.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:20:09 2012 No.5358003 >>5357999 Well yeah, that's the point, putting everyone on the same level. Like I said, it's a leftist idea.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:20:25 2012 No.5358004 >>5357994 Amir is going to be upset when he finds out men are not in the image of Allah and are very different to the point of there being differences in intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:21:39 2012 No.5358006 >>5358002 So you don't want us to give the WMD away, but tell everyone that we can make them?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:21:39 2012 No.5358008 >>5358004 >if we tell the truth, we might get attacks from islamic terrorists Is it what you are resorting to, now?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:22:09 2012 No.5358009 >>5358006 That's kinda the point of WMD, making people know that you have them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:22:24 2012 No.5358011 >>5357776 >Science is for truth, not subject to social expectations. Yes, but what you do with information is purely social. >>>/pol/

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:22:54 2012 No.5358013 >>5358004 "Amir" can go fuck himself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:23:24 2012 No.5358016 >>5358003 >implying wanting everyone to be excellent is a bad thing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:23:54 2012 No.5358015 >>5358009 The technology is irrelevant here, it's the concept we are talking about

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:26:09 2012 No.5358023 >>5358006 >>5358009 i agree, yes, this should be done (and is done). I don't see the problem.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:26:25 2012 No.5358024

>>5358016
So what were you expecting him to say?
"We're gonna put everyone on the same level and OH BOY IS IT GONNA BE SHITTY."

I didn't say it was a good or bad thing, it's a leftist idea. The right considers not everyone can be as excellent because not everyone is equally meritorious.

"Giving everyone the same education" vs. "giving a better education to those who proved themselves"

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:26:54 2012 No.5358022 >>5358016 no, its bringing everyone DOWN to the same level, they don't look at what make the successful successful and emulate it, but instead try to bring everyone down to the lowest denominator

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:27:40 2012 No.5358026 >>5358015 >The technology is irrelevant here Yes, and that why this post >>5357987 was off-topic and generally idiotic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:29:10 2012 No.5358030 >>5358022 Actually, the French engineering school with the widest student background diversity is arguably their best school in term of education.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:30:24 2012 No.5358033

>>5358024

>"giving a better education to those who proved themselves"

that would be very shitty in my case. I fucking sucked in high school, had to take reparatory classes before going to college. I have a 1.0 now (4.0 us scale) because I really enjoy what I'm doing.

but I still don't support "Giving everyone the same education" either. everyone should be able to pick their own education. whether top tier or dumbed down, it should be available to whoever seeks it.

but I digress, apologies.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:30:55 2012 No.5358032 >>5358026 I was illustrating that information is great and R&D should never stop, but giving that information to everyone sometimes isn't the best idea

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:31:09 2012 No.5358034 >>5358030 >diversity define it and explain why, be precise and explain. what would they bring that others couldn't? why is it superior in regards to education?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:31:39 2012 No.5358036 >>5358032 It was a bad example. Saying you can make a WMD is good. Giving the formula is bad. One is science, the other is technology.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:32:24 2012 No.5358039

In the seventies some geneticists have been publically smeared and even physically assaulted for their research on this.

They have been accused of supporting nazism or even genocide just for insisting a hint of a genetic factor by leftist radicals.

I'm glad that we've moved beyond this point. I'm glad that the truth prevails in the end.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:32:24 2012 No.5358040 >>5358030 >widest student background diversity You sure about that?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:32:55 2012 No.5358037

>>5358024
>"Giving everyone the same education" vs. "giving a better education to those with rich parents"

FTFY

Also, recruitment for the best schools and universities out there is totally open, those schools and universities are free and acceptance is based only on merit and grades.

The french school system is the true meritocracy, deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:33:39 2012 No.5358045 >>5358037 >"Giving everyone the same education" vs. "giving a better education to those with rich parents" Well THANK YOU for exactly proving the point I was trying to make.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:34:25 2012 No.5358047

>>5358037
genetics plays a role in intelligence, intelligence is partially hereditary, the best musicians often for instance have parents that were also musicians.
why can't the rich also pass on their physical belongings as they have experience and genetics?
the schooling should go to those that are best suited and have shown an affinity to it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:34:25 2012 No.5358048 File: 16 KB, 300x330, turing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Intelligence >Genetics

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:36:09 2012 No.5358055

>>5358037
>The french school system is the true meritocracy, deal with it.
And yet the left wants to be done with it.
Here is one of the most vocal leftist ideologist today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHg79PiB4s
He does bitch about France having only a 1% transgenerational social mobility, and succeeding better in college.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:36:24 2012 No.5358056

>>5358034
I mean, they have a lot of students from poor families, even immigrants. In fact they aren't part of the "classes préparatoires" system so they recruit directly in high school. From what I know for working with them, they are really more open-minded, innovative and able to do good teamwork than other french engineers, which are good overall but pretty shitty at that.

I think one of the previous poster here was pretending to be graduating from it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:36:55 2012 No.5358054 File: 41 KB, 303x400, NoShitSherlock.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5358047 > musicians often have parents that were also musicians

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:37:09 2012 No.5358059

>>5358040
a racial curve exists everywhere. all whites are not smarter than all asians which are in turn all smarter than all blacks. that's probably what every nigger seems to implicate.

the french colonial background is massive, so it's easy to tap the creme de la creme of africa, which would not surprisingly exceed the local talent.

i don't see why this shouldn't be so.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:38:09 2012 No.5358060 >>5358030 what school?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:39:39 2012 No.5358062 >>5358055 >Franck Lepage >most vocal I didn't even knew he existed. The majority of the leftists are actually advocating for this system. And you may even be surprised, but it was leftists who made this system in the first place.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:41:24 2012 No.5358067

>>5358062
Once again, you are mistaking the government party with the ideologists.
Of course government parties are mostly interested in keeping the status quo.
Having a socialist party card doesn't make you a leftist, it makes you a normal guy interested in politics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:41:24 2012 No.5358068 >>5358060 I may be wrong but I think it was the National Institute for Applied Science.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:42:24 2012 No.5358071 >>5358067 >joining the socialist party >not left So why join the Syndies?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:42:54 2012 No.5358069 >>5358060 He's talking about INSA Lyon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:43:39 2012 No.5358073 >>5358056 right i think we have gone on a bit of a tangent here, i honestly don't understand this train of discussion. i said >>5358022 so how does >>5358030 have to do with anything?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:43:54 2012 No.5358075 >>5358067 I would think the most vocal ideologist is Mélenchon or Cohn-Bendit, not some unknown guy from a radical extreme-left fringe.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:44:10 2012 No.5358077 >>5358071 Just having left wing political opinions isn't what people normally call a leftist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:45:24 2012 No.5358078 >>5358075 But those guys are power politicians, not ideologists. DCB used to but not anymore. They are not the one crafting the future left ideology.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:49:25 2012 No.5358081

>>5358073
Easy. This school looked at the most successful (they have the "Polytechnique" school, for example), did exactly the same but with a larger student diversity in term of social background, less funds and a mentality to bring everyone to the excellence and not the actually already excellent, and it worked pretty well. For all I know about the French politics, it's what their leftist government wants to do with all their secondary school system.

But hey, it's only my opinion as a manager, I'm not a teacher or w/e.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:50:10 2012 No.5358085 >>5358071 The French socialist party is really more of a soft social-democrat party.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:51:40 2012 No.5358089 >>5358069 That's it thanks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:53:55 2012 No.5358093 >>5358081 Yeah, the thing is it works because they have great funding and a small number of students (there is selection at entrance). Providing the same fund/student for all universities would be... incredibly expensive to say the least.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:55:24 2012 No.5358098 >>5358078 Those categories aren't exclusives in the french political system. Look at the FN after 2002 and before the rise of MLP. It was the ideologist Gollnisch who had the upper hand on the party.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:57:24 2012 No.5358103 >>5358093 They have like 5000 students, which is much bigger the size of the other excellence schools. I don't have the stats but I don't think they are spending a lot much money per student than a regular university.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 09:59:40 2012 No.5358106

>>5357776
>knowledge might not be worth having

This is all nonsense anyway. All this is already known. It's an unspoken truth we sweep under the rug.

Anthropologists and Biologists know damn well we aren't all identical. Liberals will continue to pretend its not true and preach multiculturalism. Geneticists and anthropologists will continue using this knowledge in their daily lives.

Life will continu as normal

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:01:09 2012 No.5358107 Is this racist bullshit ever going to stop?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:01:39 2012 No.5358108 >Dr. Lahn says he once tried testing himself for which version of the brain genes he has. The experiment's outcome was blurry "but it wasn't looking good," he says. He hasn't tried testing himself again. >tfw chinese and not even a doctor

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:05:25 2012 No.5358110 >>5358107 It's going to stop when scientists will discover the major genes which are responsible for intelligence and that there's a variation among racial groups. I've already bought a giant funnel for all your tears.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:06:10 2012 No.5358111 >>5358110 among and between*

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:09:39 2012 No.5358115 >>5358110 >It's going to stop when scientists will discover the major genes which are responsible for intelligence and that there's a variation among racial groups. Presuming a conclusion

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:11:24 2012 No.5358116

>World socialism as a whole, and all the figures associated with it, are shrouded in legend; its contradictions are forgotten or concealed; it does not respond to arguments but continually ignores them--all this stems from the mist of irrationality that surrounds socialism and from its instinctive aversion to scientific analysis

http://robertlstephens.com/essays/shafarevich/001SocialistPhenomenon.html

I hate all of you egalitarian freaks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:12:09 2012 No.5358118 >>5357814 muh equality

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:14:09 2012 No.5358121 >>5358115 The major heritability of intelligence has already been established. A racial significant variation has already been established. What's left is a major breakthrough in genetics.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:19:09 2012 No.5358128

>>5358116
>World socialism as a whole, and all the figures associated with it, are shrouded in legend; its contradictions are forgotten or concealed; it does not respond to arguments but continually ignores them--all this stems from the mist of irrationality that surrounds socialism and from its instinctive aversion to scientific analysis
Yeah, that's some profound indepth analysis and not just generic ideological propaganda babble.

Socialists also hate freedom, liberty and honor, by the way, which is why the socialist will always betray its country and consume the souls of the innocent whilst doing so.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:22:25 2012 No.5358137 >>5358098 But the FN isn't a govenment party.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:22:54 2012 No.5358135 >>5358128 You forgot to say that he eats children and rape animals.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:24:40 2012 No.5358141 >>5358128 >I'm a dumb fuck and never read so I'll spout bullshit ramblings

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:26:09 2012 No.5358143 >>5358103 It's 30000 euros/student, 3 times higher than the university average.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:28:24 2012 No.5358145

>>5357792
>stormfag

You do realize that Stormfront and 4chan don't get along right? The /n/ and /new/ boards tried forging an alliance multiple times and it didn't work out.

Stormfront = genuine IRL white nationalists
4chan = neckbeard keyboard warriors

They also had some drama over this 'Harold Covington' neckbeard. Really, accusing posters here of being 'stormfags' only makes you look like a dumb cunt.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:33:09 2012 No.5358152 >>5358141 Epic debate skillz, brah.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:37:39 2012 No.5358161 >>5358152 It's one-on-one with the level of debating skill of the reply.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:37:55 2012 No.5358157

>>5358145
There's no substantial difference between /pol/, Stormfront and just general anti-gov, anti-jew sites like PrisonPlanet. If they don't get along, then it's most likely over some petty disagreement, not because there's any huge ideological difference between them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:38:39 2012 No.5358162 >>5358157 Stormfront looks down on 4chan. There, i condensed it for you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:39:24 2012 No.5358164 >>5358157 PrisonPlanet is not anti-jewish, Alex Jones is married to a jewess and always carefully avoids jewish culprits. Holy shit i thought this was /sci/.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:39:54 2012 No.5358163
File: 47 KB, 397x230, Slavoj+Zizek+zizek+bed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What a shame. This could be one of the most important discoveries in evolution today.
I'm writing a letter to Bruce encouraging him to pursue this research, and I think you should, too.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:41:24 2012 No.5358166

>>5358143
Can I have the source on that ? I am actually looking for it but can't seems to find any.

>>5358137
The FN scored 20% on the last election and have representatives in the Assemblée Nationale as well as an increasing number of local representatives.

But I wasn't talking about that in the first place. Ideologists as politics happens more than often here is France. On the other hand, nobody can't say there is an unified "leftist" ideology in France. The anon earlier pointed a anarcho-syndicalist taking about removing most of the school system in favor of a worker's union. It isn't representative of anything, except maybe this anarcho-syndicalist group. In France, you have the green left, the social democrats, the socialists, the civil rights lovefest partisans, the anarchists, the anarcho-syndicalists, the Jauressians, the communists, the radicals, the trotskists, the maoists, the anticapitalists, etc...

The last ideologist who managed to unite the French left on a single point was Bourdieu, and the only thing he said was "The current culture system (60's/70's) only promote the rich".

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:42:39 2012 No.5358170 >>5358161 Yeah, yeah, have a fucking point already. The shit you posted was worthless babble. You could exchange "socialist" with any other ideological stereotype, and the quote would be just as argumentatively meaningful.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:44:40 2012 No.5358174

>>5358157
That's not correct (there are plenty of differences, mainly stemming from Stormfront leaning to the IRL extreme), but even if it were: that still doesn't make them 'stormfags'. It only shows what a pathetic name-calling retard you are. Have fun avoiding debate on a scientific board.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:45:09 2012 No.5358175 >>5358164 I didn't say Alex Jones is anti-jew, I said PrisonPlanet is.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:45:25 2012 No.5358176 >>5358170 I'm not the guy you replied to. Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:46:09 2012 No.5358181

>>5358166
>The FN scored 20% on the last election and have representatives in the Assemblée Nationale as well as an increasing number of local representatives.
None of that makes it a government party. Government parties are interested in preserving the status quo.
A 50 years old petroleum engineer or brain surgeon who votes for the socialist party isn't what people call a "leftist".

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:46:54 2012 No.5358182 >>5358175 PrisonPlanet is Alex Jones' work. He takes care that his work is not anti-jewish. It's always 'the globalists'. Please stop making a fool out of yourself.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:48:10 2012 No.5358186

>>5357776

>He had found signs of recent evolution in the brains of some people, but not of others.

Over a hundred posts in this thread and nobody on /sci/ caught this erroneous statement.

/sci/ confirmed for being an aggregator of ignorant STEM fanboys

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:48:39 2012 No.5358187
File: 12 KB, 200x308, 1355661629815.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Since /sci/ can't keep a thread from getting derailed:

>Bruce Lahn, a professor of human genetics at the University of Chicago, stood before a packed lecture hall and reported the results of a new DNA analysis: He had found signs of recent evolution in the brains of some people, but not of others.

>It was a triumphant moment for the young scientist. He was up for tenure and his research was being featured in back-to-back articles in the country's most prestigious science journal. Yet today, Dr. Lahn says he is moving away from the research. "It's getting too controversial," he says.

>Dr. Lahn had touched a raw nerve in science: race and intelligence.

>Dr. Lahn told his audience was that genetic changes over the past several thousand years might be linked to brain size and intelligence. He flashed maps that showed the changes had taken hold and spread widely in Europe, Asia and the Americas, but weren't common in sub-Saharan Africa.

>Dr. Lahn says he was moved when a student asked him whether some "knowledge might not be worth having"

Science is for truth, not subject to social expectations.

Discuss.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB115040765329081636-T5DQ4jvnwqOdVvsP_XSVG_lvgik_20060628.html

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:49:10 2012 No.5358189

>>5358174
>(there are plenty of differences, mainly stemming from Stormfront leaning to the IRL extreme)
As I said, there are no substantial *ideological* differences. One group having the balls to act out their extremism is not an ideological difference.

>It only shows what a pathetic name-calling retard you are.
Huh? Pot, kettle, black, buddy. Unlike you, I didn't call anyone anything. All I said was this:
>>5358157

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:49:24 2012 No.5358190 >>5358186 What's the problem, doc?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:49:24 2012 No.5358191 >>5358181 In France it is. A lot of engineers and scientists as a whole actually vote for the left because the left actually gives a shit about science, industry and education. Why do you think they can't be leftists ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:49:39 2012 No.5358192 >>5358186 How is it 'erroneous'?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:50:39 2012 No.5358196 >>5358189 You call others 'stormfags', that's name-calling. I can't help it if you're a pathetic retard. That's not name-calling. Shit i really thought this was /sci/.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:50:39 2012 No.5358197 >>5358191 You don't understand what leftist means. It's a depreciative term for head-in-the-clouds left dreamers.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:52:54 2012 No.5358198 >>5358189 >extrimism >not an ideological difference Not even /sci/ is safe from morons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:53:09 2012 No.5358200 >>5358182 >PrisonPlanet is Alex Jones' work. He takes care that his work is not anti-jewish. No, he doesn't. Shut up already. http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=168342.0

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:53:25 2012 No.5358201 >>5358197 In which kind of democratic system are people using that as an insult ? Damn, sounds retarded.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:55:24 2012 No.5358207

>>5358196
>You call others 'stormfags', that's name-calling.
What's wrong with you? I just told you in that very post you responded to that all I had previously posted was this:
>>5358157
I didn't call anyone anything.

>I can't help it if you're a pathetic retard. That's not name-calling.
Of course it is, and you're even dishonest and self-righteous about it to boot.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:56:24 2012 No.5358209 >>5358201 The Western world.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:57:09 2012 No.5358211 >>5358209 Well, France isn't the west anymore. Sounds good actually.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 10:59:40 2012 No.5358218

>>5358198
Could you stop saying "Gee, /sci/, I thought you were better than this" as if it were an argument? If you have an actual argument to make against assertions you disagree with, fucking make it. GREENTEXTLOLUSOMORON doesn't cut it.

And no, action and inaction are not "substantial ideological differences". The groups still share the same beliefs. You didn't even understand what I wrote, for fuck's sake.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:00:40 2012 No.5358221 >>5358211 >she is racially making such progress in negrofying herself that one can really speak of the establishment of an African State on European soil. Good job France.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:02:24 2012 No.5358225

On the one hand, the truth exists whether you like it or not, and, even if africans are demonstrated to be less intelligent on average, there's no reason this would or should dominate our morality.

On the other hand, there ARE people, many who post in this thread, who would use this fact for justification of society being built on inequalities, or possibly even use it to justify genocide or forced sterilization.

Here's what I think: What's true is true, but, if you make the claim that whites and asians are genetically more intelligent, then show us the genes, and that they actually work. Perhaps viral vectors could even be used to deliver these genes to people who don't have them. Our attitude doesn't have to be about racism, but about improving society.

Another thing this would NOT mean: We can give up trying to fix the chances for equal opportunity that are ruined by a legacy of racism. Whether it's 20%, 10%, or .00001% of africans who are comparably intelligent to whites an asians, what that person would have to go through in a racist society would not be justice.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:03:54 2012 No.5358226 i thought this was /sci/ not /thetruthisrascist/

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:04:54 2012 No.5358231 >>5358211 You dumb. "Gauchiste" is a depreciative term.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:05:24 2012 No.5358232 >>5358225 nobody around today is affected in any meaningful way by rascism. nobody alive today knows any American who was enslaved If anyone is affected by prejudice in America today its whites

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:08:39 2012 No.5358239 >>5358232 >If anyone is affected by prejudice in America today its whites Fucking bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:09:40 2012 No.5358244 >>5358232 >nobody around today is affected in any meaningful way by rascism u wot m8?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:10:55 2012 No.5358247 >>5358200 Wow, it seems like you've looked into this a lot to confirm your suspicions. Are you by chance.. someone of Semitic lineage? Anyways, no one even responded to that thread.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:11:55 2012 No.5358248 [DELETED]

>>5358190
>>5358192

It implies a conceptualizing of an idea for success, that the whole research is really done in a self-reinforcing manner.

If you STEM fanboys actual pulled your head from out the ass of whomever's orthodoxy, you all would greatly be better capable of improve your reading comprehension and actually becoming good at doing science.

If you can't see when science is being applied as politics, then you deserve the mediocre place you have in life.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:14:24 2012 No.5358260

>signs of recent evolution in the brains of some people, but not of others
>He thinks evolution works toward a goal.
>He thinks not everybody is a mutant, having evolved from their parent's DNA.
I think someone needs to check this guy's PhD, because I have a hard time believing he has even an undergrad education in the subject

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:14:40 2012 No.5358261

>>5358190
>>5358192

It implies a conceptualizing of an idea for success, that the whole research is really done in a self-reinforcing manner.

If you STEM fanboys actual pulled your head from out the ass of whomever's orthodoxy, you all would be better capable of improving your reading comprehension and actually become good at doing science.

If you can't see when science is being applied as politics, then you deserve the mediocre place you have in life.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:15:25 2012 No.5358265

why isnt you smart enough to agree with me /sci/? i thougt you were /sci/ where science and logic was god and what i say is science and logic and therfor you must agree or i call you poopiehead, and you dont want that now, do you??

ps: niggers is faggots

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:15:25 2012 No.5358266 >>5358261 Who the hell talked about success?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:16:39 2012 No.5358270 >>5358261 >He had found signs of recent evolution in the brains of some people, but not of others. >success And you give lessons about reading comprehension?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:17:09 2012 No.5358271 >>5358247 >Are you by chance.. someone of Semitic lineage? Yeah, that's a much more likely explanation than you being wrong and me pointing it out.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:17:24 2012 No.5358272 >>5358260 >He thinks evolution works toward a goal. That's not implied anywhere.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:19:54 2012 No.5358278 >>5358260 Maybe you have trouble with complex scientific words like "recent".

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:22:09 2012 No.5358285 >>5358278 Did you just mock me? Not a wise decision my friend.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:22:09 2012 No.5358287 >>5358265 You sure showed them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:22:54 2012 No.5358289 i didnt thinked /sci/ was all jew like this. im disappoint, /sci/, deeply disapppoint. /sci/. /sci/, like, for realls, you used to be cool, /sci/ :roleyes:

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:23:54 2012 No.5358291 >>5358285 Are you gonna misread me to death?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:23:54 2012 No.5358292 >>5358272 >recent evolution == better How is that not working towards a goal?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:24:09 2012 No.5358296 >>5358287 There is no "them". It's one /pol/ clown who can't argue worth shit, but still refuses to shut up for some reason.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:24:25 2012 No.5358297 >>5358292 >I'm gonna invent things that were not claimed and then demolish them >surely nobody thought of that clever stratagem before

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:25:09 2012 No.5358300

>>5358292
I read an article a couple months ago and he never says the mutations are "better" because they are more recent, but that they are important because they allow people to live together in some kind of civilization and they occurred recently, meaning Africans don't have them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:29:09 2012 No.5358311 >>5358300 >they allow people to live together in some kind of civilization I get the rest of what you said, but this... what? Pretty sure black people have cities like we do

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:30:10 2012 No.5358314 [DELETED]

>>5358266
>>5358270

Take note STEM fanboys! These posts are good examples of what poor reading comprehension looks like.

Thank you. To each post: Your ability to misread the use of the word 'success' and attempt to maligned the argument given shows *greatly* on you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:32:54 2012 No.5358321 >>5358314 see >>5358300 Your manner of criticizing an article after having read one sentence from another article about it is disgusting.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:33:40 2012 No.5358326 >>5358311 I don't really remember details and am not very interested in genetics or biology. It also was my understanding that he only found a correlation and didn't actually know anything specific about functions and was mostly speculating.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:35:39 2012 No.5358333 > getting trolled on 4chan > 2015 I seriously hope you guys don't do this in the future.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:36:10 2012 No.5358334 >>5358333 I can't help it, it's in my genes!

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:36:39 2012 No.5358337 Postan in a trollan threadan Everyone knows intelligence is a discipline trained through years of failing and correcting mistakes. >Measuring intelligence by IQ How stupid, care to explain why not a single member of Mensa have won a Nobel Prize.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:37:39 2012 No.5358341 >>5358334 hereditary traits is a social construct.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:38:09 2012 No.5358343 >>5358054 nice comeback

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:39:10 2012 No.5358348 There's too much niggers in denial in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:40:25 2012 No.5358351 >>5358348 Stay strong white man.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:42:09 2012 No.5358357 >>5358337 Care to explain why no one with an IQ under 100 won a science Nobel prize? It's more complicated than that, there are multiple factors, and IQ is one of them. However it's not linear.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:42:39 2012 No.5358360

>>5358337
>does not believe that intelligence is measurable and heritable
>2012

Read these papers:

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2002notamystery.pdf

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2002ghighlygeneral.pdf

Both ny Linda Gottfredsson. Collected works found here:

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/pubtopics.htm

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:43:10 2012 No.5358361 >>5358337 >>5358333 >someone can't handle people disagreeing with him >"oh it's a trollin' thread" We don't even know what's your view on it.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:44:39 2012 No.5358365

what does this have to do with race.

race isn't a scientific concept; the only reason people are grouped into races when speaking of science is the same reason we group them for political or cultural reasons; it's based on a long history of categorizing people according to color and continent. Of course, like many ideas of the past, we know today that there is no such thing as races.

People come from a wide variety of different ancestries and families and individuals within families show a great deal of diversity.

The only reason the concept of 'race' hasn't gone out with creationism is because it still serves special interests.

And scientists, knowingly or otherwise, are not supporting a scientific discussion on the matter by grouping people into these categories.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:44:55 2012 No.5358362

>>5358266
>>5358270
>>5358272
>>5358285
>>5358297
>>5358300

These post are good examples of persons not being able to read critically, out from underneath an orthodoxy. The language used also suggest that these people are probably incapable of reading science without vesting their ego.

Thank you STEM fanboys, thank you for reminding me why Science is so fucked today.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:45:24 2012 No.5358367 >>5358362 Oh look you erased your previous trollan and worked on a new one. How cute.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:46:24 2012 No.5358372 why do i get banned for asking sci about peak oil but there can be two pol related race threads in as many days that get the pass?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:46:40 2012 No.5358374 >>5358365 Please don't.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:48:09 2012 No.5358377 >>5358365 lel

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:49:09 2012 No.5358380 >>5358372 that is why /pol/ is the best board because so many different topics can be logically discussed. science, religion, art, history.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:50:09 2012 No.5358384 >>5358365 Sing it sister. this boy got it right

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:50:40 2012 No.5358387 >>5358372 because youre a racist bitch fuck your oil

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:51:40 2012 No.5358390 >>5358372 Because /sci/ get raided by americlaps who cant into individuality. Nordic master-race hier. This thread is laughable. You are a joke.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:51:54 2012 No.5358388 >>5358372 Because we consider such threads to be troll threads.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:52:39 2012 No.5358391 File: 556 KB, 1196x1599, 1354500774550.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5358365 >what is biology

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:53:24 2012 No.5358392 >>5358380 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Unless by "discuss", you mean "keynesian statist/JIDF disinfo agent detected", in which case /pol/ is the best board ever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:53:40 2012 No.5358393 >>5358390 what are you trying to say?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:54:39 2012 No.5358394 >>5358367 >ITT: I'm gonna act like my little comeback doesn't feed the trolling >ITT: I'm gonna act like my little comeback raises me above trolling >ITT: I'm gonna pretend my little remark is really witty

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:55:24 2012 No.5358396 >>5358391 > chopped off the last two frames wut

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:56:24 2012 No.5358400 >>5358394 Butthurt fag says what?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:56:24 2012 No.5358401 >>5358392 whatever dude. yes it is a bummer having to wade through the mountains of shit, but when you don't delete every little thing that doesn't pander to your world view, you have all the more opportunities to enrich your understanding.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:57:09 2012 No.5358403

>>5358374
>>5358377

I can find average differences between people who live in Boston and people who live in New York on any given metric.

I can find average differences between two randomly selected groups.

I can find average differences between Asians and Europeans. I can collectively group brown and white people, and compare their average to black and yellow people combined. And there will be differences.

None of these are scientifically meaningful ways to categorize people and neither is color-coding them. There is no causal affect between race and IQ or even race and color or race and ancestry in humans.

I can find average differences in IQ between people who prefer chocolate and people who prefer vanilla ice cream.

And if this was how humans socially divided themselves over history for whatever reason, then today we would be talking about average difference between chocolate and vanilla eaters.

The idea of color coding people is purely for convenience, special interests, and folk-science.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:57:40 2012 No.5358407 >>5358400 what?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 11:58:40 2012 No.5358408 >>5358400 You just said it try harder, pussy

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:00:39 2012 No.5358414 >>5358408 >spoilers Why don't you go back to whichever board you come from?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:01:24 2012 No.5358417 >>5358403 >2012 >Lewontin's fallacy le shiggy

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:06:24 2012 No.5358429 >2012 >still thinking race is a meaningful concept

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:06:40 2012 No.5358430

>Scientist proves what everyone already knows
>Gets shut down because it's heresy for the cult of liberalism

It's really like I'm living in a theocracy. The CHINESE MAN called us out on our thought police, too

Doesn't that make you feel the least bit of shame?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:06:40 2012 No.5358431

>>5358401
>yes it is a bummer having to wade through the mountains of shit
Indeed.

>but when you don't delete every little thing that doesn't pander to your world view, you have all the more opportunities to enrich your understanding.
I don't know what you're referring to. This isn't the case on *any* board on 4chan, not just not on /pol/. Besides, my problem with /pol/ isn't their world views, but the way most people conduct themselves over there. Threads aren't discussions, but screaming matches, where the "winners" are those who can wrap their fallacies in the most cliched personal insults.

But just to make this clear, I don't think /sci/ is that great a platform for discussion either, though the people here are generally aware that "It seems intuitively plausible to me" and "It is the truth" are not necessarily the same thing.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:06:54 2012 No.5358432

>>5358417
An idea which has been disproven many times.

It's possible to find common, unique alleles to, say, Africans. But when you sufficiently expanding the set you can define whatever groups you want. You can find ways to categorize North Africans and Europeans people into a single race.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:07:54 2012 No.5358433 >>5358414 TRY HARDER, PUSSY Did you catch that? Or do I need to make a graph?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:07:54 2012 No.5358434

Did anyone read the article?

>Dr. Lahn has drawn sharp fire from other leading genetics researchers. They say the genetic differences he found may not signify any recent evolution -- and even if they do, it is too big a leap to suggest any link to intelligence. "This is not the place you want to report a weak association that might or might not stand up," says Francis Collins, director of the genome program at the National Institutes of Health.
>They say the genetic differences he found may not signify any recent evolution
>and even if they do, it is too big a leap to suggest any link to intelligence.

>What the data didn't say was how the mutations were advantageous. Perhaps the genes play a role outside of the brain or affect a brain function that has nothing to do with intelligence.

>Dr. Lahn says he once tried testing himself for which version of the brain genes he has. The experiment's outcome was blurry "but it wasn't looking good," he says. He hasn't tried testing himself again.

There's nothing to argue about. That scientist found some change, but doesn't know if it's related to intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:08:24 2012 No.5358437 >>5358433 As if you could.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:08:24 2012 No.5358439 >>5358430 No. I'm glad the racists aren't allowed to spout their garbage. Its a shame that some is still leaking through.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:09:54 2012 No.5358440

>ITT buttcrazy racists starving for scientific evidence to treat others as unequal, even though they do so anyway
>also ITT people who have lived with privilege their whole lives and assume that everyone else has also

i made it, why can't everyone else?
surely it's because they are inferior to me, and cannot be due to other factors

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:10:40 2012 No.5358443 >>5358432 >An idea which has been disproven many times. Yes, Lewontin's idea (yours) has been disproved many times. It works the other way around, the more loci you take, the clearer the distinction is.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:11:10 2012 No.5358446 >>5358440 Why are Sub Saharan IQs 30 points below many Western countries?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:12:39 2012 No.5358448 >>5358434 Then why the fuck did he have to step down?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:12:54 2012 No.5358449 >>5358446 they've been oppressed for quite a while.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:13:24 2012 No.5358450 >>5358448 Yellow racism.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:13:54 2012 No.5358452

>>5358440
everyone on /sci/ has "made it" due to being white? just in case you were not aware, this is actually an assumption that you just made up.

What I'm saying is you've bought into this white priv. conspiracy theory and are now projecting it onto everything you can in order to "save" some fictitous "oppressed" group.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:14:09 2012 No.5358453 >>5358439 So you're an anti-intellectual, anti-scientific fascist. Thanks for just coming out and saying it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:14:25 2012 No.5358454 >>5358446 Probably race related, considering that race is the only difference between those people.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:15:24 2012 No.5358455 >>5358446 One region provides free education for all, the other does not. I'd say there's an high correlation between education and IQ.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:16:10 2012 No.5358457 Holy shit, I never realized how much of a joke /sci/ is. Is there actually science here, or do you guys have a vote on what kind of "science" you like?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:16:10 2012 No.5358458 >>5358443 >It works the other way around, the more loci you take, the clearer the distinction is. But that's wrong, you moron. The concept alone is stupid just on the face of it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:16:24 2012 No.5358460 >>5358454 thats bs dude firstly race doesn't exist and secondly all humans are equal

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:16:24 2012 No.5358461 >>5358434 And thanks to the church of positive thoughts, we will never know if it is.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:16:39 2012 No.5358462 >>5358446 >2012 >still thinks IQ tests are culturally independent try to consider what people with no formal education whatsoever think about when taking a "test" like this

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:17:39 2012 No.5358463 >>5358462 so you're saying its their culture to be uneducated?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:18:09 2012 No.5358465 >>5358448 It's written in the article. He felt uneasy about the "result" and the controversies around. A true scientist wouldn't have stepped down if he really was on something big.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:18:39 2012 No.5358467

>>5358458
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_fallacy
>In the 2007 paper "Genetic Similarities Within and Between Human Populations",[18] Witherspoon et al. attempt to answer the question, "How often is a pair of individuals from one population genetically more dissimilar than two individuals chosen from two different populations?". The answer depends on the number of polymorphisms used to define that dissimilarity, and the populations being compared. When they analysed three geographically distinct populations (European, African and East Asian) and measured genetic similarity over many thousands of loci, the answer to their question was "never". However, measuring similarity using smaller numbers of loci yielded substantial overlap between these populations.
inb4 ">Wikipedia"
u so edgy

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:18:54 2012 No.5358464 >>5358455 BULLSHIT IT'S SKIN COLOR YOU CLITSLAPPED LIBSHIT SOCIALISNIGGER JIDF COMMUBAMA FAGFAG

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:19:11 2012 No.5358469 >>5358462 Yeah it's not like there were ever any tests done on black children in western countries.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:19:25 2012 No.5358470 >>5358403 Categorizing individuals based on ancestry for convenience is the whole point of systematics. It's fundamental to any biological research.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:19:39 2012 No.5358473

>>5358443
>Yes, Lewontin's idea (yours) has been disproved many times.
No, I was talking about the idea that you can find clean lines between traditional definitions of white/black/yellow/red/brown depending on which set of alleles tested for.

>It works the other way around, the more loci you take, the clearer the distinction is.
sauce?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:19:55 2012 No.5358468 >>5358452 did i say anything about anyone being white? have you ever been anywhere in the 3rd world?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:20:09 2012 No.5358474 >>5358463 nope, not sure how you got that from what i said, try reading it again

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:20:24 2012 No.5358475 >>5358468 oh so /sci/ is full of people with black and white priveledge?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:20:39 2012 No.5358476 >>5358465 >it's ok I don't need funding anyway Who the fuck cares if he is a "true scientist" in your eyes or not? The thing is there is something here that won't be investigated further.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:21:09 2012 No.5358479 >>5358473 see >>5358467

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:21:25 2012 No.5358480 >>5358470 There is no causal affect between race and ancestry

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:21:54 2012 No.5358477 >>5358474 use your brain, if you have one. its exactly what you said.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:21:54 2012 No.5358478 >>5358457 They just play with math and pretend their experts with everything else.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:22:09 2012 No.5358481 >>5358462 >there are no third-world asian countries

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:23:10 2012 No.5358482 >>5358480 But that's wrong. Eurasian only have Neanderthal ancestors, and Asians only have Denisovan ancestors.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:23:24 2012 No.5358484 >>5358475 i said that it is full of people of privilege, you can say black and white if you want, but i didn't say that troll harder or try thinking outside of your bubble, please

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:23:24 2012 No.5358485 >>5358476 >The thing is there is something here that won't be investigated further. Then go ahead and pursue his investigation if you think it's worth it.

>>	Enzius Sun Dec 16 12:24:24 2012 No.5358487 >>5358465 >No true Scotsman

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:24:54 2012 No.5358486 why is it the anti-racists always avoid questions or just shut up when they get called out on their BS? are they realising how brainwashed they've got from reading gawker or are they just running off in a huff?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:25:10 2012 No.5358490 >>5358455 Education has no effect on intelligence

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:25:24 2012 No.5358491 >>5358481 try living in china, southeast asia, or north korea, not implying that they are third world, but their rankings by the UN for human development are quite low

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:25:39 2012 No.5358492 >>5358476 >No true Scotsman

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:26:24 2012 No.5358495 >>5358486 why is it the racists always avoid questions or just shut up when they get called out on their BS? are they realising how brainwashed they've got from reading stormfront or are they just running off in a huff?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:26:54 2012 No.5358493

>>5358417
People tend to think evolution works super fast, and somehow 3 millions years of hunting animals, is not enough for us to still be same species, when we only are separate as races within 65,000 years. Color is only one gene, for one protein, melanin, which serves nothing in terms of problem solving. People live in tribes, and love to create artificial constructs of reality, in which they belong. The ultimate goal of intelligence is not to bend for these constructs, but to find realities that can accurately predict an outcome over and over.

>>5358360
The problem with these theories is that they are graded in which people can perform well within these social constructs. Black and white people don't identify themselves with each other as one's tribe, hereon is the performance different as the expected outcome is fit one way of solving and not an alternative.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:27:09 2012 No.5358496
File: 22 KB, 300x277, atheist.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5358484
> >ITT buttcrazy racists starving for scientific evidence to treat others as unequal, even though they do so anyway
> >also ITT people who have lived with privilege their whole lives and assume that everyone else has also

> i made it, why can't everyone else?
> surely it's because they are inferior to me, and cannot be due to other factors

you don't have a clue what you're talking about, you're just repeating feminist buzzwords.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:27:24 2012 No.5358498 >>5358477 nope, try looking up the definition of exactly, and then re-read what i said, and then read your responses

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:28:39 2012 No.5358503 >>5358496 i suppose you must have a clue then, since i have not said anything about feminism?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:28:54 2012 No.5358500 >>5358495 > "I know you are but what am I" pathetic

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:30:09 2012 No.5358509 >>5358503 the white priveldge conspiracy theory was created and is propagated by feminists. I guess you're just clueless about where the idelogies you've been fed actually come from.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:30:24 2012 No.5358510 This is really stupid. So you think Chinese who were poor as fuck 50 years ago, suddenly changed into a 1st world country ++ with superconducting maglevs and over production because they inherited a smart gene. Get out of here you trolls.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:30:40 2012 No.5358511

>>5358490
That's no true and you know it.
If Gauss was born 2000 BC he wouldn't have done all what he has done for science.
Education permits to unlock the potential of a person.
Being good at deducing things is useless if you've got nothing to feed your brain.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:30:55 2012 No.5358508 >>5358482 I worded that wrong, I meant "Only Eurasians have Neanderthal ancestors, and only Asians have Denisovan ancestors."

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:31:10 2012 No.5358516 >>5358500 What you're calling pathetic is actually the way you reasoned yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:31:24 2012 No.5358517 >>5358485 I would face the same pressure and it's not my area, what's your point?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:31:54 2012 No.5358513 >>5358491 You're missing my point. I'm using greentext for sarcasm. There are Asian poor countries with little education, yet they perform well on IQ tests.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:32:09 2012 No.5358518 >>5358516 no its not, this baby just repeated what I said but changed the words around.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:32:09 2012 No.5358519 >>5358511 That has nothing to do with IQ.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:33:54 2012 No.5358523 File: 50 KB, 400x263, iq-test_by_race_eu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] hey guys whats going on in this threa...

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:33:55 2012 No.5358526 >>5358509 i don't read any "feminist theories", so i wouldn't know about any "white privilege conspiracy theories" you are completely misrepresenting what i said, somebody already tried to accuse me of talking about whites, but i have yet to do so

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:34:11 2012 No.5358530 >>5358523 SHUT UP IT'S BECAUSE ASIANS ENSLAVED THE WHITE MAN FOR CENTURIES

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:34:40 2012 No.5358533

>>5358493
>Black and white people don't identify themselves with each other as one's tribe, hereon is the performance different as the expected outcome is fit one way of solving and not an alternative.
If this was the reason then Asians would not perform better than Whites either academically or on IQ tests.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:34:40 2012 No.5358534 File: 18 KB, 500x500, Try-Harder-Pussy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5358437

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:34:40 2012 No.5358535 >>5358511 What has that got to do with IQ? The level of education you have does not effect your innate intelligence next you'll be throwing the cultural bias card

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:34:55 2012 No.5358528 File: 55 KB, 640x421, iq5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] oh I guess you're having a discussion ill just let myself out..

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:35:10 2012 No.5358537 >>5358518 It's a way to show that your post contains no substance whatsoever, and only rely on its form. You can only blame yourself for that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:35:39 2012 No.5358540 >>5358537 wrong

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:36:24 2012 No.5358542 >>5358493 All that bullshit. See >>5358482 No it's not only melanin.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:36:55 2012 No.5358541 >>5358513 i apologize for misreading your post i am unaware of such data, i will have to look it up for myself

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:37:33 2012 No.5358550 >>5358535 >>5358519 Education provides ways to think faster and better, to recognize situations and make link between them. So yes, it does influence an IQ test.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:37:54 2012 No.5358544 >>5358530 economic development has both environmental and biological explanations, there is no dichotomy between the two until the 18th century East Asian and European living standards were identical

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:38:33 2012 No.5358551 >>5358540 Wow, 5 stars post.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:39:33 2012 No.5358553 >>5358541 Here is IQ data on the Chinese: http://theslittyeye.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/iq-geography-in-china/ The data used can be found here: http://tw.iqeq.com.cn/gesheng.html

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:40:33 2012 No.5358554 >>5358550 Do you have any scientific source to support your claim?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:40:33 2012 No.5358557 >>5358542 You can't handle the truth. You didn't even read the article. Besides why did Asia turn from a shit country to a superpower. Because they got their assburgers up and started working hard.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:41:33 2012 No.5358558 >>5358557 >didn't respond to my point

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:42:34 2012 No.5358560 so the consensus seems to be that 1st world people have it easy due to "privelige" so to be politically correct they shouldn't study intelligence differences between races in case there actually is one?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:43:33 2012 No.5358562 >>5358560 Yes, and if you actually want to know, you should do research without funds.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:43:34 2012 No.5358563 >>5358508 OK, so now we are going from grouping people by race to continent. I accept your concession.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:44:34 2012 No.5358564 >>5358563 ...what?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:44:34 2012 No.5358566 >>5358562 don't you realize how fucking retarded that is?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:46:34 2012 No.5358571 >>5358564 I accept your concession; eurasian isn't a "race".

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:46:34 2012 No.5358572

>>5358554
I suppose it makes enough sense not to be scientifically proven.
Just think about it:
You face many logical problems at school, and because you solve them multiple times you get use to the reasoning behind them.
IQ test are only about logic. You can train your logic, so you can train yourself for IQ tests.
That why passing multiple time similar IQ tests alter the result every time.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:47:34 2012 No.5358574 >>5358566 I do, I'm adding to your point.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:48:33 2012 No.5358576 >>5358571 non sequitur Nobody I say shows you can't make a finer classification. It does show you are full of shit though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:48:33 2012 No.5358577 >>5358572 >IQ test are only about logic. IQ tests measure g, and g has been shown to be highly heritable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:49:33 2012 No.5358578 >>5358572 but there is no bias in IQ tests

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:49:33 2012 No.5358581

>>5358572
>I suppose it makes enough sense not to be scientifically proven.
holy shit
>That why passing multiple time similar IQ tests alter the result every time.
Yes, except you don't train beforehand, and there are stats for the US where children go to the same schools.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:50:33 2012 No.5358582 >>5358577 IQ tests measure IQ, which has barely any correlation with intelligence.Fuck IQ tests. Apparently the only time /sci/ beleives in the validity of IQ tests is when they separate races.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:51:33 2012 No.5358589

>>5358577
>IQ tests measure g, and g has been shown to be highly heritable.
Then you'll have no problem pointing me to some resources supporting your claim.

>>5358578
That's what I said.
It only measures your logic, which can be trained through proper education.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:53:33 2012 No.5358595 >>5358593 I meant high IQ.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:53:34 2012 No.5358592 >>5358582 are you retarded?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:53:34 2012 No.5358593 >>5358589 >ignoring all the arguments in this thread Just fuck off, ok? Unless you can explain why third world Asian countries with bad education have a low IQ.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:53:34 2012 No.5358594 >>5358592 no.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:54:33 2012 No.5358597 >>5358576 >Nobody I say shows you can't make a finer classification. Please go ahead and do so. >It does show you are full of shit though. very convincing argument, there.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:54:33 2012 No.5358598 >>5358582 see >>5358360 Here are links to a few books on race and intelligence: http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/race-realism-classics/ Good blog too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:55:34 2012 No.5358600 >>5358593 please give examples

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:55:34 2012 No.5358603

>>5358581
>holy shit
Some element of our cultural life belongs to common sense and don't have to be proven to be considered true.
1+1 is one of those element. The fact that schools teach you the rudiments of logic too.
>Yes, except you don't train beforehand
You do. Through schools.
Please, don't claim that a 18 years old person think more rationally that the same exact person but at the age of 8.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:56:33 2012 No.5358605 >>5358577 g is way too arbitrary to be taken serious. You would need proof in terms of the exact gene code, protein and function. Also g doesn't take into account psychological reasons, training and environment.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:56:33 2012 No.5358609 >>5358598 nobody's going to sit thru several articles to post a response; why not preface your stream of copypasta with some arguments worth reading on this board itself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:57:33 2012 No.5358611 Doesn't the Minnesota interracial adoption study pretty much prove intelligence is heritable and blacks have a lower average IQ? why are we still arguing about it...

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:57:33 2012 No.5358612 >>5358593 You're trying to deviate from the fact that you don't have any arguments to support your claim by claiming I'm not seeing them. That's not honest.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:57:33 2012 No.5358613

>>5358589
Variability and stability in cognitive abilities are largely genetic later in life
>http://www.springerlink.com/content/t0844nw244473143/
The powerful quantitative genetic design of identical and fraternal twins reared apart
(112 pairs) and matched twins reared together (111 pairs) was employed to assess the
extent of genetic influence on individual differences in cognitive abilities during the last
half of the life span. General cognitive ability yielded a heritability estimate of about
.80 in two assessments 3 years apart as part of the Swedish Adoption/Twin Study of
Aging.

Genetic and environmental influences on adult intelligence and special mental abilities
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9549239
I review representative biometric studies of adult twins and adoptees that have been used to generate
estimates of genetic and environmental influence on intelligence (IQ) and special mental abilities. The various studies converge on a heritability estimate between 0.60 and 0.80 for IQ.

You can also read the book "The g Factor: The Science of Mental Ability", found here:

http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/race-realism-classics/

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:58:33 2012 No.5358614 >>5358611 because studies like that which prove me wrong dont exist

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:58:33 2012 No.5358615

>>5358609

The evidence is there for you to read. If you to be force fed information you're on the wrong board. Go learn about the debate for yourself rather than expect others to guide you.

Either that or you're just a stupid reddit liberal with your head in the sand

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:58:33 2012 No.5358617 >>5358611 "black" isn't a scientifically meaningful denomination. there is no causal effect between being considered black and having a different IQ. Blacks have diverse genomes that code for a diverse set of phenotypes for a given trait.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:59:33 2012 No.5358619 >Article talks about new findings in genetics concerning the brain and intelligence >white nationalist attempt to abuse the findings for their own interest >/sci/ and /pol/ bitch at the"liberals" instead. Ok

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 12:59:33 2012 No.5358621 File: 1023 KB, 265x260, 1355676151093.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5358617 > race doesn't exist > scientists aren't allowed to use skin color as a variable

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:00:33 2012 No.5358622 >>5358614 I'm having a hard time distinguishing you from real liberals in this thread

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:00:33 2012 No.5358623 >>5358614 but they are wrong in many scientific ways...

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:01:33 2012 No.5358626 >>5358615 it's retarded to counter a claim made by posting several links. Make actual counter-arguments and then link to some statistics or studies.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:02:35 2012 No.5358629 >>5358600 India, Mongola, Afghanistan

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:02:35 2012 No.5358630

So I take it the answer to race and intelligence is "we dont really know yet"? There were good arguments posted from both sides in this thread, yet nothing conclusive, and wiki also seems to be pretty split on the question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:03:33 2012 No.5358632

>>5358609
>nobody's going to sit thru several articles to post a response
>"I have no idea whatchou talking 'bout but I will still give my opinion and call you a retard if you don't agree"

On this board "I don't want to read" isn't an argument, nor is "I don't have access to literature".

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:03:33 2012 No.5358634

>>5358621

> race doesn't exist
not outside folk-science of color coding peoples

> scientists aren't allowed to use skin color as a variable
?? yes they are.

Any anthropological geneticist worth their words will tell you that there are black people that span all sets of phenotypes for all traits, and that race has no causal effect on ancestry.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:04:33 2012 No.5358638 >>5358617 >get result by crossing two different variables >"you can't use it because one variable isn't ok because I said so"

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:05:33 2012 No.5358639

>>5358613
>Variability and stability in cognitive abilities are largely genetic later in life
That's not the point. What is the g you were talking about?
What does "variability and stability in cognitive abilities" have to do with IQ test?
You're trying to prove that being good at logic is hereditary, when my point is that you can train your logic through education.
My argument and your your point are not exclusive.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:05:34 2012 No.5358640 >>5358623 The only people who are wrong about science in this thread are the racial egalitarians. Your god has abandoned you. Now weep.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:06:34 2012 No.5358641 >>5358639 You can't even read a whole paragraph, what makes you think you can legitimately participate in this board?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:08:33 2012 No.5358643 >>5358641 Way to admit you can't argue any more. Logic being hereditary, and being able to train your logic through education aren't exclusive, deal with it.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:09:33 2012 No.5358646

>>5358639
>What is the g you were talking about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_%28psychometrics%29
The g factor (short for "general factor") is a construct developed in psychometric investigations of cognitive abilities. It is a variable that summarizes the consistent finding of positive correlations among different cognitive tasks, reflecting the fact that an individual's performance at one type of cognitive task tends to be comparable to his or her performance at other kinds of cognitive tasks. The g factor typically accounts for 40 to 50 percent of the variance in IQ test performance, and IQ scores are frequently regarded as estimates of individuals' standing on the g factor.[1] The terms IQ, general intelligence, general cognitive ability, general mental ability, or simply intelligence are often used interchangeably to refer to the common core shared by cognitive tests.[2]

>You're trying to prove that being good at logic is hereditary, when my point is that you can train your logic through education.
My argument and your your point are not exclusive.
The studies Ive posted above show that twins reared apart have very similar levels of cognitive capability. This is an argument for that g is genetic and cannot be learned.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:10:34 2012 No.5358647

>>5358632
>On this board "I don't want to read" isn't an argument, nor is "I don't have access to literature".

You're twisting my words.

Imagine watching a debate on CNN where the contenders just argue and counter by giving each other URLs without actually saying something worth considering.

Sourcing your argument with evidence is important; so is actually making one yourself.

Moreover, you're retarded not to understand why this sets a bad precedent; people with some agenda could very easily give the illusion of having evidence via copypasta.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:11:33 2012 No.5358650
File: 64 KB, 600x450, 1355598126819.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5358643
this isn't some stupid fucking debate club. we're not "arguing" competitively. when people say things that are wrong they get corrected, and in your case they ignore it and remain ignorant.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:11:33 2012 No.5358651

>>5358643
Really, you're gonna play that? Completely forget what you're trying to prove AND use the logical fallacy you used against us?

Gentle reminder. ITT:
>egalitarians who believe IQ differences are only cultural
>non-egalitarians who believe IQ differences are linked to race (that doesn't mean there can't be other factors)

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:11:33 2012 No.5358653 >>5358643 >Logic being hereditary, and being able to train your logic through education aren't exclusive, deal with it. Nobody said they were, just that its largely genetic and that enviroment only has a minor role.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:12:33 2012 No.5358654 >>5358647 You can read abstracts, can't you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:13:33 2012 No.5358655 >>5358640 No one gives a shit about race, you are all equally worthless. The backbone of intellect comes from hard work and production. Evolution works much slower than you think. In a million years you will be correct. If we survive.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:16:33 2012 No.5358663

>>5358646
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16320306
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/medical/health/medical/mentalhealth/story/2011-12-27/IQ-i
snt-fixed-at-birth-and-can-increase-with-education/52237552/1
http://learningenglish.voanews.com/content/more-school-may-mean-higher-iq-scores-137183213/113924.ht
ml

What now?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:17:33 2012 No.5358667 >>5358640 >The only people who are wrong about science in this thread are the racial egalitarians. Your god has abandoned you. Now weep. this is what /sci/ has become

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:18:34 2012 No.5358669 >>5358653 >Nobody said they were, just that its largely genetic and that enviroment only has a minor role. That's yet to be proven.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:22:33 2012 No.5358675 >>5358663 It's pretty well know, there is a correlation of parents income with IQ. But, the thing is, for equal income, black kids have a lower IQ.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:23:33 2012 No.5358676 >>5358613 There's a flaw with that study: it doesn't specify what education those twins were given.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:25:33 2012 No.5358683

>>5358663
More schooling when the kids are young does increase their IQs, but these gains are lost as the kids age and the gaps between the races start to reappear.

The effects found here:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/medical/health/medical/mentalhealth/story/2011-12-27/IQ-i
snt-fixed-at-birth-and-can-increase-with-education/52237552/1

are likely a non-g-loaded effetc caused by additional training which familiarizes the children to test-taking.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:26:33 2012 No.5358686 >>5358675 I wanna see some statistics about that. Also even if it was true, then they would still be able to improve their logic thanks to school.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:26:34 2012 No.5358688

>Dr. Lahn says he was moved when a student asked him whether some "knowledge might not be worth having"

I agree.

The typical layperson might not understand or have access to or be able to correctly interpret incomplete information.

For example, a layperson might read such a thing and might incorrectly think this is reason to believe a black person has lower intelligence than a white person.

It's necessary to be careful about giving incomplete information from those who do not have the training or understanding to interpret it properly, if they might make a decision on said incomplete information.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:27:34 2012 No.5358689 >>5358676 True, but they compared twins reared and together to come up with those numbers.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:28:33 2012 No.5358692 >>5357776 >>5357779 >>5357780 >>5357782 >>5357786 >>5357790 >>5357791 >>5357792 >>5357793 this is some powerful samefag.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:29:34 2012 No.5358697

>>5358683
>More schooling when the kids are young does increase their IQs, but these gains are lost as the kids age and the gaps between the races start to reappear.
Where did you read that?

>are likely a non-g-loaded effetc caused by additional training which familiarizes the children to test-taking.
What are you even trying to say.
People who went at school score better than the one who didn't, that's all there is to say.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:29:34 2012 No.5358698

>>5358686
>http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board's 2005 data on the SAT:

• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.

• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.

• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.

SAT scores also correlate with g.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:31:34 2012 No.5358702 >>5358697 How would that be all, that's not even the topic. What people are trying to show here is that race is a factor, not that it's the only one.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:32:34 2012 No.5358704

>>5358689
The results are useless if we don't know whether or not they were given the same education.
If they weren't given the same education, then it would prove that education doesn't play a role in IQ level.
But highly doubt that they made one category of person who receive a proper education and not the other not, because that wouldn't be legal.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:34:34 2012 No.5358705

>>5358697
>What are you even trying to say. People who went at school score better than the one who didn't, that's all there is to say.

Score gains on g-loaded tests: No g
>http://menghusblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/score-gains-on-g-loaded-tests-no-g.pdf
However, there are many ways in
which IQ scores can be increased, for instance by means of retesting or participation in learning potential training programs. What
is the nature of these score gains? Jensen [Jensen, A.R. (1998a). The g factor: The science of mental ability. London: Praeger]
argued that the effects of cognitive interventions on abilities can be explained in terms of Carroll's three-stratum hierarchical factor
model. We tested his hypothesis using test–retest data from various Dutch, British, and American IQ test batteries combined into a
meta-analysis and learning potential data from South Africa using Raven's Progressive Matrices. The meta-analysis of 64 test–
retest studies using IQ batteries (total N=26,990) yielded a correlation between g loadings and score gains of −1.00, meaning there
is no g saturation in score gains. The learning potential study showed that: (1) the correlation between score gains and the g
loadedness of item scores is −.39, (2) the g loadedness of item scores decreases after a mediated intervention training, and (3) lowg
participants increased their scores more than high-g participants

tl;dr The ability of an IQ test to measure g decreases with addiyional schooling

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:36:35 2012 No.5358712 >>5358697 >Where did you read that? Here is a summary of the results of academic intervention programs: http://menghusblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/02/educational-intervention-and-the-failure-to-raise-iq-per manently/ To summarize:They all failed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:37:35 2012 No.5358714 >>5358704 What? No, you make no sense. All you need is to show that the variability between twins is lower than between random individuals in the same education system.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:37:35 2012 No.5358715 >>5358704 Education does not have a lasting effect on g. More reading here: http://menghusblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/02/educational-intervention-and-the-failure-to-raise-iq-per manently/

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:37:35 2012 No.5358717

>>5358705
>tl;dr The ability of an IQ test to measure g decreases with addiyional schooling
That's like saying "because they score better at that logic test thanks to education, it makes it irrelevant".
And? Isn't that good that a person who scored bad at an IQ test, scores well after a few training?
If IQ tests are the ultimate way to measure logic, then it's good news that you can improve your level through schoolings.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:39:35 2012 No.5358721

>>5358232
>nobody around today is affected in any meaningful way by rascism. nobody alive today knows any American who was enslaved
>If anyone is affected by prejudice in America today its whites

This guy here blamed being turned down from a university on affirmative action.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:39:35 2012 No.5358723 >>5358715 >page not found

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:40:35 2012 No.5358726

>>5358717
IQ tests measure g, and with additional schooling the ability of an IQ to measure g decreases. An example of this is academic intervention programs that do increase the IQ of the children compared to the control group but fail bring up their academic results to a level that would be expected at that level of IQ.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:41:33 2012 No.5358728 >>5358714 And what does it prove? That twins have a similar intelligence? How does it disproves the influence of education on IQ scores?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:41:33 2012 No.5358729 >>5358723 The fuck? It works for me.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:45:33 2012 No.5358741

>>5358728
It proves there is an inheritable factor in IQ.
Why would it disprove the influence of education?

You're the one using the fallacy "education has an influence so it' can't be racial."
That's twice now I call you on it. I would appreciate if you noticed.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:46:33 2012 No.5358743

>>5358729
>>5358715
You should read what you post more carefully:
>Many public interventions (Head Start, Abecedarian, Milwaukee …) had tried to raise the IQ of children from low SES families. But the available evidence highlights the fade-out of IQ gains with time, so that this phenomenon raises the question of the persistence of IQ gains after the end of the educational programs.
They're saying that you can gain IQ through education, but that you can't gain IQ indefinitely.
That argument is on my side.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:48:33 2012 No.5358747 >>5358743 It's like you can't read or you have the memory of a goldfish. >>5358683 >More schooling when the kids are young does increase their IQs, but these gains are lost as the kids age and the gaps between the races start to reappear.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:51:33 2012 No.5358751

>>5358741
>You're the one using the fallacy "education has an influence so it' can't be racial."
There's a correlation between race and education.
The educational system in Africa is defective, whereas we American and European have no problem with it.
Therefore, if the people of Africa aren't seen as intelligent, it's because they did not receive the same education as we did.
Educate them and you'll see that they can score well at IQ tests too.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:54:33 2012 No.5358758

>>5358747
>More schooling when the kids are young does increase their IQs, but these gains are lost as the kids age and the gaps between the races start to reappear.
Wow.
It did not appear in any article you provided there fore I should ask
[citation needed]

It's like you're trying to prove your point by quoting yourself.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:56:34 2012 No.5358764

>>5358751
It's been answered already.
Same income, same education, white kids have higher IQ.
Just because there is an education component doesn't mean race doesn't play.

>>5358758
I certainly do hope you are subtly trolling.
>Education does not have a lasting effect on g.
>They're saying that you can gain IQ through education, but that you can't gain IQ indefinitely.
Care to explain the difference?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 13:58:34 2012 No.5358768

>>5358743
>http://menghusblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/02/educational-intervention-and-the-failure-to-raise-iq
-permanently/
To summarize, all attempts to raise “g” permanently through educational intervention (Head Start, Perry Preschool, Abecedarian, IHDP, Milwaukee, Early Training Project, etc…) had failed.

Again, IQ can be raised but it is not g-loaded.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:00:34 2012 No.5358775 >>5358764 The difference is that you gain IQ but do not lose it after some time like you said. What you lose is the ability to increase it even more.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:03:33 2012 No.5358780

>>5358751
>The educational system in Africa is defective, whereas we American and European have no problem with it.

The US education system is pretty shitty. I know you meant more in terms of kids going to school instead of war, but I've personally gone to American public schools and I didn't learn jack shit from them. Khan Academy taught me everything I should have learned back then.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:04:33 2012 No.5358783

>>5358775
wwhhhhhat the fuck man
>this phenomenon raises the question of the persistence of IQ gains after the end of the educational programs
Oh my God, don't tell me you unintentionally misread that.
Just look at the fucking numbers. Yes the sentence might have both meanings but in the context it's fucking obvious.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:05:33 2012 No.5358786

>>5358768
>Again, IQ can be raised but it is not g-loaded.
I don't care about your "g-loaded" nonsense.
As long as you can gain in logic and increase your performance in IQ test, that's all what I wanted to prove: even if you weren't given great cognitive abilities, you can still improve them and not fall into the category of retards.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:06:33 2012 No.5358792 >>5358775 I can't believe you actually misread that and are not trolling.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:08:33 2012 No.5358794

>>5358775
Holy shit it's like you are actually retarded.
>To summarize, all attempts to raise “g” permanently through educational intervention (Head Start, Perry Preschool, Abecedarian, IHDP, Milwaukee, Early Training Project, etc…) had failed.
How could you not understand that sentence?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:08:33 2012 No.5358796

>>5358783
>this phenomenon raises the question of the persistence of IQ gains after the end of the educational programs
>after the end of the educational programs
You're the one misreading this article at your will.
Education improve IQ level.
No more education may result (that's yet to be proven according to the article) in loss of IQ.
Clear enough?
K, I'm off to eat.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:09:33 2012 No.5358799 >>5358786 IQ measures g though

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:09:33 2012 No.5358800 >>5358647 All you want is someone to summarize an idea so you can misinterpret it and "win" the debate, or troll more. As was just proven ITT.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:10:33 2012 No.5358801

>>5358796
>To summarize, all attempts to raise “g” permanently through educational intervention (Head Start, Perry Preschool, Abecedarian, IHDP, Milwaukee, Early Training Project, etc…) had failed.
You can't read, and you are definitely mentally challenged in one way or another.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:10:34 2012 No.5358802 >>5358794 so a temporary g can actually not represent your true g?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:11:34 2012 No.5358804 >>5358802 "True g" doesn't mean anything. Where are you going with that?

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:15:34 2012 No.5358812 >>5358804 So you can gain IQ from education but this does not impact your true g in the long run, it only has a short run effect

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:17:33 2012 No.5358821 >>5358812 Yes that was the idea.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:20:33 2012 No.5358835 >>5358821 But most tests attempting to show racial IQ differences are performed on children/teens who would have their g influenced severely by educaiton

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:26:33 2012 No.5358854 >>5358835 wait what?!? it appears you're becoming more desperate as this argument progresses

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:27:33 2012 No.5358856 >>5358835 1_ not all of them, they still show the differences 2_ and? Like it's been said multiple times, there are studies taking the education and income into consideration. The difference is still there.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 14:28:33 2012 No.5358860 >>5358835 >this grasping at straws Normally you're not supposed to invent arguments on the go. Either you have a solid basis for refuting racial importance, or you don't.

Some people just want a nazi superstate Sun Dec 16 15:04:34 2012 No.5358956

"Compared to general cognitive ability, specific cog-nitive abilities are less stable (about .70) and ge-netic factors contribute less (about 70%) to their stability. Why should general cognitive ability, which is a weighted composite
of tests of specific cogni-tive abilities, show greater genetic influence than its constituent tests? The answer is not simply
that general cognitive ability is more reliable than specific cognitive abilities."
-------
I'm really sorry, but this is not good enough to prove anything if each test subject and their twin is differentiating by 30% for each specific test its a case where they are trying to fit the model by manipulation.
--------------------------
"Similar to the results for general cognitive ability, the remaining variance is due largely to nonshared environment
and error of measurement. Shared environment is significant
at both ages only for the Blocks test and the Information test. "
-------------------------
We need the specific genes that causes this and a predictable outcome, before anything is true. According to this article, every person will inherit
------------------------
"The genetic cor-relation is .99 for general cognitive ability and ranges from .91 to 1.0 for the tests of specific cognitive abilities."
"Compared to general cognitive ability, specific cog-
nitive abilities are less stable (about .70) and ge-netic factors
contribute less (about 70%) to their stability. "
----------------------
Didn't you just disprove yourself? I rest my case.

source:
http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2FBF01067188

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 15:19:33 2012 No.5359000 >>5358956 What's your case exactly? You didn't say anything apart from "I don't like those numbers" and "we need gene sequencing". Why the fuck would we need gene sequencing?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 17:18:34 2012 No.5359494

>>5358799

No, this wrong. IQ test measure affordance, and are primarily designed to assess how well the subject can learn in the given environment.

All claims that IQ tests link intelligence with genetics, are either jumping around with assertions or are mishandling the definition of things. In other words:

That's wrong, you retard.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 02:45:34 2012 No.5360881

>>5357962
>Do you think the scientists behind the atomic bomb thought about the impacts? Of course they did.
I don't think they didn't. I remember reading Oppenheimer's biography that all the scientist wanted to do is to make the first a-bomb before the Nazi did. It was AFTER the test did they realise the implication of said bomb; hell, they were even celebrating after the success of the first test.

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