organothiophosphate

[Impulse No.5281687]

look at this structure I've been working on. what do you think? nasty

[Axel the Possum No.5281694]

I think that fluorine atom looks like it'll cause you some shit.

[Impulse No.5281714]

This is a nerve agent. The fluorine is just the leaving group, the lipophilic group on the right of the P-O bond is to mainly render the victem untreatable quickly after exposure, lipophilic group on the left (from S-P bond) is to match the AChE enzyme and to kepp the molecule stable while the phosphorous is bonding, the terminal oxygen is to give the phosphorous higher electrophilicity. Each component makes it more toxic.

[sage No.5281724]

I think you're full of shit, or - if you are telling the truth - that you're risking your security clearance to post on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.5281722]

Good luck synthesizing that bad boy.

[Impulse No.5281731]

well considering I just got my clearence revoked I couldnt give two shits about leaking info

[Impulse No.5281779]

Jokes I dont work for any secret government program. However everything I said in the second post is true and thats only the very extreme basics of how this works, and no I will not go into detail as it shits me. but a question here and there is ok. If you want to learn about this more go study the toxic kinetics of phosphorous nerve agents.

[Anonymous No.5281802]

>>5281779
What's the point
Chemical terrorist attacks are weak, it's a shit way to kill people
I'd rather blow them up

[Impulse No.5281825]

My spider senses feel my jimmies being rustled.>>5281802
This chemical has similar texture to olive oil meaning it is extremly persistent in the environment (in the ground) walk past vapour you die, breath in vapour downwind you die. 1kg could kill thousands this is why it is labeled as a weapon of mass destruction and simple pipe bombs are not.

[sage No.5281889]

>>5281825
>it is extremly persistent in the environment
that thiophosphoryl fluoride isn't susceptible to rapid hydrolysis by atmospheric moisture?

also, that tris(2,2-dimethylvinyl)carbinol derived group must be less stable than the corresponding trityl group, particularly in the context of oxidation reactions (say, O2 and sunlight).

[Impulse No.5281907]

>>5281889
It wouldnt happen quickly in the atmosphere at all. But yes the fluorine would be hydrolised off but the remaining hydroxy group would still keep its toxicity however it would not be the leaving group. The group to the right that you are talking about contains double, carbon-carbon bonds to allow the carbocation to be stable when the ester is split. More stable the carbocation the quicker it leaves the indirect double bonds help with this. And would you please explain how the hell is the thio group suppose to hydrolise at any rate comparable to that of fluorine.

[Impulse No.5281909]

I'm assuming sage that you understand how these inhibitors work?

[Anonymous No.5281928]

>>5281925
kilo per k that is, gram per target

[Anonymous No.5281925]

>>5281687
a kilo is a lot. not sure if this is more economical than a nuke.

[Impulse No.5281937]

>>5281925
mortar rounds used to contain over 500 kg of vx nerve agent

[Anonymous No.5281939]

>>5281938
now*

[Anonymous No.5281938]

>>5281937
>>5281909
sage obviously has no idea what you're talking about and has not crawled back to his hole. AKA you're much smarter than him and he doesn't like that.

[Anonymous No.5281941]

>>5281937
you mean 500 grams.

[Anonymous No.5281944]

>>5281941
>>5281937
but in either case I still think it's pretty good, but a self replicating parasitic viral agent would be wayyy better.

engineer a molecule that reprograms a certain target tissue to secrete itself and the agent, or better yet, an agent that decays into that agent. that would be what I'd research in your position, prolly.

[Impulse No.5281945]

>>5281941
no i mean 640 kg dispersed by an explosive charge
I know it seems like a lot but it covers a massive area.

[Impulse No.5281948]

>>5281944
so a bioweapon

[sage No.5281967]

>>5281907
>please explain how the hell is the thio group suppose to hydrolise at any rate comparable to that of fluorine.
I never intended to say anything about hydrolytic loss of a thiol. I was referring simply to hydroylsis of the P-F bond

>The group to the right that you are talking about contains double, carbon-carbon bonds to allow the carbocation to be stable when the ester is split. More stable the carbocation the quicker it leaves the indirect double bonds help with this.
you failed to address the relative stability of the structure you gave in your initial post as compared to the trityl group, a group for which all of the things you stated above also hold true. The corresponding trityl compound would be less susceptible to oxidation than the structure which you propose. Yes or No.

>>5281909
yes, only now we're down to arguing over what 'persistent' means.

>>5281938
keep dreaming

[Impulse No.5281974]

>>5281944
you cant just make that, its structure would be incredibly complicated and its synthesis would most likely be very unethical, because you have to take into account of dna injection, energy source, protien binding, membrane strength and other factors aswell. I think I will leave that to evolution. But, an agent similer to sulfur, mustards mutnagenic properties but without DNA crosslinking causing proggramed cell death, would mutate the dna and then the DNA would reproduce normally making more of the agent. But I dont find this very possible

[Anonymous No.5281980]

>>5281948
same thing really, just larger, more complex.

also, you don't have to deal with >>5281967's problems because you can basically engineer a shell that creates ideal conditions, and due to autonomous reproduction longevity isn't such a big factor.

facit: you can do wayy better.

[Impulse No.5281982]

>>5281967
were did you piss off to, anyway yes I understand the hydrolysis of the P-F bond this converts it to P-O-H this means that the P-F PRIMARY leaving group is now gone but now instead the ester would be the leaving group. To explain to you the carbocation formed is not meant to be as stable as the left group because it is meant to be broken easily to prevent treatment, stability is caused by the sharing between carbon-carbon bonds this is especially profound in the indirect double bonds. Referring to the left group now, it is meant to "match" the AChE enzyme producing greater stability and greater bonding. Without the Flourine it is still persistent it would just take a bit longer to kill you.

[Impulse No.5281995]

realistically this is all insinuating I have enough funds for research and development

[Impulse No.5282012]

k im turning in for the night/morning it 1:20 AM in Australia and at the moment and i'm tired, no hate sage besides what do I know im only 15