/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.5209640]

At what distance from earth would you have to drop a steak for it to be cooked medium rare by reentry into the atmosphere?

[Anonymous No.5209650]

The tough part is flipping it at just the right moment.

[Anonymous No.5209652]

Assuming 1.59 KJ/kg*C for a specific heat from this website: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-capacity-food-d_295.html

... I have no idea

[Anonymous No.5209653]

we need the exact weight and dimensions of the steak along with percentage content of various tissues there big guy.

[Anonymous No.5209655]

4 feet

[Anonymous No.5209654]

about tree fiddy

[Anonymous No.5209658]

>>5209653
Make any assumptions about the steak's dimensions and amount of fat/meat etc. Let's agree that it starts frozen though, so we can use the number from >>5209652

[Anonymous No.5209665]

Wouldn't you have to throw it from an orbital so that it has enough velocity to be going faster than terminal velocity once it hits some thicker air?

[Anonymous No.5209666]

>>5209665
That might be necessary, yes.

[Anonymous No.5209669]

>>5209650
>implying it won't flip uncontrollably and be equally cooked from each side.

[Anonymous No.5209670]

>>5209658
Let's assume that the atmosphere is consistent throughout the steak's journey. Let's also assume that the steak is just a giant ball of meat. You're making a pot roast instead of a pan steak.

[Anonymous No.5209679]

>>5209670
And then use this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_reentry#Shock_layer_gas_physics

Not sure what temp you need the meat at to get it medium-rare though

[Anonymous No.5209688]

>>5209655
This. Its why I cook all of my TV dinners by dropping them.

[Anonymous No.5209695]

>>5209670
if the steak is a ball, then one can't assume that it's isothermal, if it's nice and thin then we can assume it to be isothermal

Though I guess we need to treat it as a ball for aerodynamic purposes

Things are going to get pretty weird though if the meat's going hypersonic, there's a good chance the meat will ablate taking heat with it, so the only way we'll be able to figure this out is with some testing.

[Anonymous No.5209698]

>medium rare

sorry, I'm not a wolf

[Anonymous No.5209699]

>>5209695
call nasa

[Anonymous No.5209709]

>>5209698

>eating anything above medium

[Anonymous No.5209712]

>>5209695
found properties of steak and apparently the isothermal assumption holds:
www.et.byu.edu/~vps/ME340/PROJECTSF11/009.ppt

now if there was only a way to figure out how the air speed and air temperature of our steak change with time.

Though I'm willing to bet that even if we manage to cook our steak, by the time it hits the ground it will be cold

[Anonymous No.5209715]

>>5209709
enjoy your worms

Medium to Well Done are the only logical choices

[Anonymous No.5209719]

>>5209715
>>5209698

Oh man I have never seen this troll outside of /ck/

I'm getting flashbacks, I better put my ketchup in the fridge

[Anonymous No.5209723]

this question tickled me OP 7/10 would smirk again

[Anonymous No.5209725]

>>5209715
>worms
maybe in your plebian household

[Anonymous No.5209744]

>>5209669
Yeah, I realize that... the joke is that you're technically supposed to flip a steak once (if you know what you're doing), and flipping it at the correct time is an important part of cooking a steak properly (which is essentially an impossibility for a single flip to occur naturally in free fall). Also >implying if it began rotating from a great height it wouldn't quickly attain such a high angular velocity that the centrifugal force would rip it apart.

[Anonymous No.5209751]

>>5209652
>>5209698
Using these, and a terminal velocity of 125 mph,
assuming the steak is at a refrigerator temperature of 40 degrees. We would have to raise the steak 86 degrees Fahrenheit. This is 47.77 degrees Kelvin/Celsius.
Since steak is 1.59KJ/kg*C, it means we have to get 47.77*1.59KJ/kg=76KJ/kg.
Energy/kg it would get from Earth's gravity is G*M(1/R-1/x) where M is mass of earth, and R is radius of earth. x is what we are solving for.
since terminal velocity is 56 meters/sec, this leads to our final equation of 76,000+.5*56^2=G*M(1/R-1/(x+R))
Solve for everything, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%286*10%5E24%29*%286.67*10%5E-11%29%281%2F%286.35*10%5E6%29-1%2
F%28%28x%29%2B6.35*10%5E6%29%29%3D76000%2B.5*56%5E2

And you get that you would have to drop the steak from at least 7825 meters. Or about 4.9 miles. Of course this is assumes all of the energy went into the steak, so the actual figure would be a bit higher.

[Anonymous No.5209756]

>>5209751
i wonder if mythbusters has a robust enough budget for this

[Anonymous No.5209763]

>>5209751
This was beautiful. Not op, but thank you.

[Anonymous No.5209764]

>>5209751

now what if it was a steak made of lava? of ice?

[Anonymous No.5209767]

>>5209764
What about ice lava?

[Anonymous No.5209775]

>>5209767
>>5209764
marvelous

[Anonymous No.5209783]

>>5209751
You assumed a 1kg steak. Seems like a lot of meat but I'll roll with it.

>All the energy going into the steak

Under the assumption that the equation for gravity didn't already, you could factor out the kinetic energy

KE=(1/2)m*v^2

=.5*1*(56)^2

=1566J

[Anonymous No.5209791]

>>5209783
Wow it did factor it out. I need to read. :(

LOL captcha is sorrow

[Anonymous No.5209794]

>>5209783
Actually I didn't. Since all the energy terms were multiplied by the steak's mass, I could cancel it out. You don't need to know the mass to solve the problem.

[Anonymous No.5209795]

>>5209751
Ah, but not all the energy will go into heating the steak if you drop the steak. In all likelyhood, if one were to drop a steak from that height it will end up only slightly warmer when it hits the ground.

[Anonymous No.5209804]

>>5209794
>you don't need to know the mass to solve the problem.

You need to know the mass to find out the initial heat input requirement.

[Anonymous No.5209806]

>>5209804
Not really, you can solve for everything in energy/kg.

[Anonymous No.5209808]

>>5209806

Good point, although the volume would drastically change the way it cooks.

[Anonymous No.5209809]

>>5209751
But this is very wrong.

You're supposed to determine how far from the earth that the steak needs to drop from in order to accelerate to a speed so significantly higher than terminal velocity that, upon entry into the atmosphere, the friction between the steak and air would be great enough to generate the heat required to cook the steak.

[Anonymous No.5209810]

>>5209809
>sigh

The acceleration to terminal velocity would be very quick at that altitude, not making much of a difference.

[Anonymous No.5209814]

>>5209809
This is right. You would need it to go faster than terminal velocity to get to the 120F cooking range

[Anonymous No.5209818]

>>5209810
while short, this is the only time the steak will cook.

[Anonymous No.5209819]

>>5209810
We don't care about the energy of the steak, rather the friction between the steak and the atmosphere to generate the heat necessary to cook the steak. Simply dropping it from 5 miles up will lead to a rather cold steak when it hits the ground...

[Anonymous No.5209817]

>>5209669
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8uWZ19az6c
This
>>5209698
Do you know what flavor is?

[Anonymous No.5209822]

>>5209818
The steak will not only cook while accelerating, as long as its going fast enough it could be decelerating and still cooking
>>5209819
Yep

[Anonymous No.5209826]

>>5209814
>>5209819
The calculation assumes all the energy from air friction goes into heating the steak. To put it simply, △Gravitational Energy=△Kinetic Energy+△Thermal Energy. The only reason the calculation is a bit under is because it doesn't account for the change in thermal and kinetic energy of the air.

[Anonymous No.5209832]

>>5209826
Then your scenario would also have to assume that the steak has a velocity of zero when it reaches the ground...

[Anonymous No.5209833]

>>5209810
It would have to be extremely high altitude (far above a point where air resistance would be a factor) so that it could accelerate to a speed much higher than terminal velocity. Upon entering the atmosphere, the massive amount of friction (due to the speed much higher than terminal velocity) would cook the steak. There's no way that it could be cooked from falling at a point within the atmosphere.

[Anonymous No.5209842]

>>5209832
I'm assuming we are only caring about the heating due to the atmosphere. Although we certainly could calculate what it's heat will be when it comes to rest and set velocity equal to 0. Although △kinetic energy is rather small compared to the △thermal energy, so the answer wouldn't change by much.

[Anonymous No.5209843]

>>5209826
You math looks good, but that energy from gravity is going to go into more than kinetic energy and thermal energy of the steak, most of the heat is going to be going into displacing and heating the air that the steak is bumping into :( sorry.

[Anonymous No.5209846]

>>5209833
this!
the friction from a drop from 7825m won't cook any god damn thing.

[Anonymous No.5209850]

>>5209846
>>5209843
>>5209833
DINGDINGDING

[Anonymous No.5209852]

stick your hand out of a car window. does you hand get cooked? no, it gets cold because the fast moving air strips heat from you.

[Anonymous No.5209851]

>>5209843
Agreed, but that would be more tricky to calculate and would involve free-fall air resistance integrals and such, which is more work than I am willing to put into for a 4chan thread.

[Anonymous No.5209857]

>>5209852
sigh so hard

[Anonymous No.5209860]

>>5209852
>>5209857
I should clarify. Your not wrong, its just we are at the point in this thread where this has already been said here:
>>5209843

[Dazel No.5209866]

>>5209860
So, in order for the steak to be cooked to a specific point, it would have to be packaged in such a way that it only absorbed some of the heat.

[Anonymous No.5209868]

>>5209866
this is probably troll but...
see here:
>>5209833

[Anonymous No.5209871]

Steak from 100km, top speed Mach 3.2, pulling 5g

[Dazel No.5209873]

>>5209868
right, I am aware.
however, it is incredibly likely that if it was unprotected, it would be extremely overcooked, so the question is how would it need to be packaged.

[Anonymous No.5209877]

>>5209873
Ah yes, otherwise it would be Pittsburgh Blue and no one likes that shit. Wow this problem is complicated.

[Anonymous No.5209891]

>>5209871
>saw graph
>interpreted as a harsh burn entry
>notice it's a steak cooking thread
>lol'd

[Dazel No.5209890]

>>5209877
Something that could transmit the heat, like tinfoil?
How thick would it need to be?

[Anonymous No.5209894]

The time of day would have a huge impact here. The steak being exposed to sunlight in the vacuum of space could have an impact here couldn't it? Also wouldn't the atmosphere in sunlight expand and therefore expand further out.

Also OPs question could be that the steak has to be cooked before reentry.

This question requires the knowledge of the suns intensity around earth and the energy required to cook a steak and then you work out the time required for it to cook and finally work make that time match the time it would take for the steak to reenter the atmosphere from x height.

I know it is possible to cook eggs and things on rocks exposed to the sun in some places, it would probably be easy enough to do this in space...

[Anonymous No.5209906]

>>5209871
How are you doing supersonic drag?

[Anonymous No.5209912]

A steak from the ISS, assuming zero initial velocity.

[Anonymous No.5209917]

You need to accelerate above the steak's terminal velocity before it hits the atmosphere so that the friction heats it up.

When in the atmosphere you have to start slowing it down to where it stops cooking and also to keep it from burning up.

Then you need to make sure it lands on your plate for you to eat.

Encapsulating the steak is probably the only option, that way we can control the heat and also have a way to stop it's acceleration with a parachute.

In short: how fast does it have to go to produce the heat necessary to cook it?
How long does it have to stay at this temperature to cook?
How do we stop it from burning up? That means slowing it down.
How do we catch it for consumption?

[Anonymous No.5209919]

>>5209912
No init velocity in the vertical or horizontal?

The ISS moving with horizontal velocity around the Earth, how would one factor in the air resistance/drag when its coming into the atmosphere at an angle and not straight down?

[Anonymous No.5209925]

>>5209919
zero hozontal and vertical speed.
(ISS is going at 7.7 km/s horizontally.)

[Anonymous No.5209933]

>>5209873
Packaging would prevent air friction from directly affecting the steak, and most packaging would not heat as well as a steak would.

The best thing to do would probably be to aerate the steak.

Or you could "package" it in an oven.

[Anonymous No.5209935]

Rough estimate...

According to the ideal gas law

the velocity of one nitrogen molecule (28 atomic masses or 3.32*10^-27 kilograms) at 160 degrees celsius (433 kelvin) is

v^2 = 3* boltzmann constant *433/(3.32*10^-27)
v^2 = 5.4*10^6
v = 2320 m/s or 5230 miles per hour
v^2 = 2as = 19.6s, 5.4*10^6/19.6 = s = 276000 meters

You would have to plug in more factors to get a more accurate result. I'm sure being low density though that the piece of meat will not re-enter like a space craft, might want to cook at a lower temperature though, slow cook medium-rare.

Might need an RFID chip so you can find it after it lands.

[Anonymous No.5209939]

>>5209919
going at an angle vs. straight down is not any more difficult to calculate (ignoring lift etc.), but this excel thing that I have is only straight down. I made it to simulate the baumgartner's red bull jump.

[Anonymous No.5210093]

The heat gained from air friction would be negligible, it wouldn't cook at all.

Why the hell are people equating gravitational potential energy to heat? Do you even heat and mass transfer?

[Anonymous No.5210107]

>>5210093
Tell that to Columbia astronauts.

[Anonymous No.5210112]

>>5210107
I forgot when the Red Bull guy burst into flames in the atmosphere, shit was so cash.

[Anonymous No.5210135]

>>5210112
he was dropped from only 39 km, try 200 km

[Anonymous No.5210141]

>>5210093
OP here, I see there is a problem with heating something at terminal velocity.

Let's assume you have the meat in a cannon in orbit, what initial velocity would it need to cook?

[Anonymous No.5210148]

>>5210093
Consider tons of molecules smacking into the object as it falls. It's going to cause them to shake around violently, that's heat.

[Anonymous No.5210179]

>>5210135
Ya, how much air resistance you think you got up there at 200 km? The steak has a very low terminal velocity, and will reach it quickly when encountering any significant drag.

[Anonymous No.5210182]

Thank you, based OP!

Funniest, most original thread I've seen a while on any board.

[Anonymous No.5210184]

>>5209698

According to that picture, medium is the perfect steak.

[Anonymous No.5210213]

>>5210182
You're welcome.

I got tired of all the homework and troll threads, so I made this for fun. Glad you all liked it :)

[Anonymous No.5210290]

>>5210213
it was good science.

[Anonymous No.5210353]

>this thread has received 1 of 4 requests needed to trigger archival.

[Anonymous No.5210384]

9/10 thread

[Anonymous No.5210430]

Wouldn't it cook, burn and then get frozen by wind chill?

[Anonymous No.5210519]

Known (Can easily be found on the internet):
Initial Temperature
Final Temperature
mass
specific heat
Terminal Velocity
Drag force =1/2pv^2CdA
Cd you can find online I assume (coefficient of drag)
p=density of air
A=Area of steak


∆U+∆KE+∆PE = Q - W

(U2-U1) + (K2-K1) + (PE2 -PE1) = Q - Work from friction of reentry

U2-U1 will the rise in internal energy of the steak.
U1=(Specific Heat)(mass)(temperature Initial)
U2=(specific Heat)(mass)(temperature final)

Assuming the steak starts from rest
K2=1/2m(velocity)^2

Placing the datum at the place where the steak reaches medium rare temperature reduces ∆PE to
PE1=mgh (for simplicity we can assume g doesn't vary at all)

For major simplicity, if we assume velocity remains constant and the density of the air doesn't vary with height (which it does, but w/e), we can pull out all the constants and find work.

W = int(F*x)dx from h1 to h2 gives us
W = -1/2pv^2CdAh1


mCTf - mCTi + 1/2mv^2 - mgh = Q(f) - W(f)
m( CTf - CTi + 1/2v^2 -gh1 ) = Q(f) - W(f)

m( CTf - CTi + 1/2v^2 - gh1) = Q + 1/2pv^2CdA(h1)

Don't feel like finishing the rest, I'm probably approaching the problem completely wrong, would be a waste of time if it was, however, someone else is welcome to finish ;) ;) ;)

[Osiris No.5210580]

>>5210430
Yeah... this is how they make frozen pizza.
Just tag it with a gps transponder and wait for it to reach earth, then wrap it in plastic and it's good to go.

[Anonymous No.5210739]

>>5210580
>Over 50,000 feet above humdrum

[Anonymous No.5210743]

>>5210580
Omg imagine if you could space order pizza, so they drop/shoot it to you from orbit at your house, so it cooks on the way down then when its done a parachute or something is released letting it drift to your doorstep

[Anonymous No.5210754]

>>5209751
you are not considering surrounding temperature which is like -50 at those heights...

[Anonymous No.5210794]

>>5210580
Flying Saucer pizzaria: Freshly cooked, freshly frozen. 5-minute delivery.

[Anonymous No.5210898]

>>5209751

Everything about this is so wrong. I can't believe I actually have to explain this, but he specifically asked about heat from re-entry, which is when an object that is travelling faster than terminal velocity enters the atmosphere, and undergoes heating from the friction.
Calculating the potential gravitational energy to heat? Are you retarded?

Try work against friction next time.

[Anonymous No.5210901]

>>5210353

how can i request to archive it?

[Anonymous No.5210916]

>>5209751

HAHAHA oh my lawd, is someone taking year 8 physics? Do you even know what terminal velocity is? It's when the drag force on an object equals the force of gravity you fucknut.

Something heats up from re-entry because it's initially travelling faster than terminal velocity, and friction converts the object's kinetic energy into thermal energy as it decelerates to terminal velocity.

You don't get anything beyond negligible thermal energy from something travelling under or at terminal velocity.

My fucking god is this board full of twelve year old faggots who can't into basic physics.

[Anonymous No.5210987]

>>5210898
>>5210916
Did you morons even read all the way to the end of >>5209751 ? It's a simple conservation of energy argument and totally valid. Condition 1: steak stationary at altitude. Condition 2: steak about to hit ground. Difference in energy of those states is the maximum possible heat that could be transferred to the steak through friction.

It neglects the heat that's transferred to the atmosphere (both from the steak, and via aerodynamic heating) but it provides an absolute lower bound.

[Anonymous No.5211024]

>>5209650
>>5209669
>Implying it will even need to be flipped since it will be cooked equally from all points on it's surface, unlike in a frying pan when it's just on the base.

[Anonymous No.5211041]

>>5210179
There is not much air resistance, so the steak will accelerate to high speeds, past it's terminal velocity at denser atmospheres, then when it reaches the denser atmosphere it will heat up.

[Anonymous No.5211049]

>>5210916
You seem to have some misconceptions about this, namely.

>You don't get anything beyond negligible thermal energy from something travelling under or at terminal velocity.

Terminal velocity is a function of atmospheric thickness, mass of the object, and cross section of the object. A human in low atmosphere caps out at 250km/h or so terminal velocity, a bomb-shaped solid lead weight? Several times the speed of sound, and such an object would heat significantly.

As you move higher in the atmosphere the dynamics change also, while I don't actually know if this is valid my gut feeling says that air resistance in a thin atmosphere at terminal velocity in said atmosphere would generate more heat than terminal velocity in a very thick atmosphere.( gut feeling influenced by the extreme points; a syrup atmosphere where you move 1cm/hour, or a near-vacuum where you move with a significant fraction of c, striking some hydrogen atoms every now and then.)

[Anonymous No.5211163]

bamp dont die

[Anonymous No.5211179]

>>5211163
>dont die
Too much is at steak!

[Anonymous No.5211199]

>>5211179

[Anonymous No.5211208]

we would have to calculate a lot of factors and we need to use calculus to look at how the various factors change continuously as the meat descends

the height

gravity, gravity is weaker as height increases

air resistance's effect on velocity

the amount of energy converted into heat

the aerodynamic properties of the meat which strongly affects both air resistance and the amount of energy converted into heat, complicated things might happen like we might start to get a meatspin

for this reason I propose we make meatballs

air pressure's effect on heat generated

the heat released by the meat due to radiation

the heat released by the meat due to conduction, which depends on air pressure and velocity

the effect of the heat on the cooking of the meat, if the meat is scorched for a few seconds before quickly slowing down to terminal velocity it won't cook properly

what other major factors have I missed?

[Anonymous No.5211223]

>>5211208
>for this reason I propose we make meatballs

Already proposed

>air pressure's effect on heat generated

We are going to assume pressure wont have any effct if we have it in some metal shield. Density of air, however will have an effect if not assumed to be constant

>the heat released by the meat due to radiation

wut

>the heat released by the meat due to conduction, which depends on air pressure and velocity

This is going to be cancelled out when we find the velocity at which the meat is going to heat up

>the effect of the heat on the cooking of the meat, if the meat is scorched for a few seconds before quickly slowing down to terminal velocity it won't cook properly

This is our largest problem. I think we need to wrap the meat in something, as proposed already

[Anonymous No.5211237]

>>5211223
> if we have it in some metal shield
Well that changes the game. We could just create a re-entry vehicle that absorbs heat and slowly transfers it to the meat.

>the heat released by the meat due to radiation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation
Heat energy can be converted into radiation which has a cooling effect.

>This is going to be cancelled out
Heat loss due to conduction increases as heat increases.

>I think we need to wrap the meat in something, as proposed already
The thing is we don't even know whether it will be scorched or cook slowly, we haven't calculated anything yet.

[Anonymous No.5211248]

>>5211237
> metal shield
I suggest a... meat shield!

[Anonymous No.5211306]

>>5211248
I suggest a George Foreman Grill.

[Carl !!dFf2PUolAtC No.5211311]

I'm curious what sort of impact the Yarkovsky and YORP effects would have on the steak's trajectory and spin rate as it descends from orbit before reentering the atmosphere, given its comparatively low mass, unusual shape, and its decreasing albedo as it cooks.

Of course it's possible these effects may not come into play over the relatively short timescale of the steak's reentry.

[Anonymous No.5211315]

>>5211306
Are you suggesting that, rather than let the steak grill during reentry, we grill the steak during reentry?

[Anonymous No.5211318]

>>5211315
A positive control can't hurt.

This is science after all.

Not anthropology.

[Anonymous No.5211324]

>>5211318
Sample 1 - A bare steak dropped from orbit
Sample 2 - A steal wrapped in foil dropped from orbit
Sample 3 - a steak grilled on a George Foreman Grill on the ground
Sample 4 - a steak grilled on a George Foreman Grill... in space
Sample 5 - a steak placed out in the Sun
Control - a steak grilled on a charcoal grill... the way God intended.

[Anonymous No.5211330]

>>5211324
Sample 6, a steak made of ice collides with a steak made of lava, who wins?

[Anonymous No.5211333]

>>5211324
Now we're getting somewhere.

I believe sample 2 should effectively minimize heat radiation and improve heat transfer?

The reflective surface would also reduce the effect of heating from the sun I imagine... Calculations may become tricky...

[Anonymous No.5211334]

>>5211330
Everyone, the neutrinos released by the collision will be Steak flavored

[Anonymous No.5211340]

>>5211334
Tau steaktrinos.

We may also be able to observe anti-steaktrinos and prove steak-symmetry in the elementary steak model.

[Anonymous No.5211384]

>>5211334
>>5211340

>my sides

[Anonymous No.5211502]

4chan; Solving tomorrow's least important problems today.

[Anonymous No.5211614]

Archive

[Anonymous No.5211631]

lel

[Anonymous No.5211634]

[Anonymous No.5211643]

>>5209698
I'm also sorry you're not a wolf.

Medium-rare FTW!!!
(yes, I know I was trolled)

[Anonymous No.5211648]

[Anonymous No.5211649]

>>5209715
>enjoy your worms
I eat medium rare to RAW beef (and tuna) all the time, and I've never gotten worms.

[Anonymous No.5211661]

Assuming you drop the steak at a height that causes it to cook to medium rare upon re entry ... wouldn't it cool down to ambient temperature afterwards during its travel to the ground?

[Anonymous No.5211669]

>>5211661
It will *start* to cool of when it slows to terminal velocity, yes. To what extent is the tough question. If it is a flaming hot molten steak of doom, the effects might be very little.

[Anonymous No.5211676]

>>5211669
But if it's too hot it just burns. It has to reach the right maximum temperature, in which case it would be cold after the entire flight. The only way to get it warm on your plate is to catch it mid air.

[Sugar !HVRS00ciDo No.5211680]

The real question is, how would you slow it down enough so that when it reached the surface of Earth it wouldn't disintegrate on impact

[Anonymous No.5211688]

Wow /sci/ really is retarded

Some people are massively overcomplicating it to look clever, and others are just plain missing the point.

The heat from re-entry doesn't come from Gravitational Potential Energy, it comes from Kinetic energy. Felix didn't burst into flames but if we hurled him down from that height at the speed of a meteorite he would.

Take the terminal velocity as negligible compared to the speed you'd need to chuck it out of the spaceship at and do a back of the envelope calculation assuming all the KE is converted to heat to get a rough ballpark figure.

[Anonymous No.5211692]

>>5211688
Then why do space shuttles get so hot on re entry? They certainly don't have the speed of meteorites.

[Anonymous No.5211703]

>>5211649
when was the last time you were tested?

[Anonymous No.5211711]

>>5211692
red bull guy's top speed was 0.37 km/s
deorbiting space craft have speed of 8 km/s
return from the moon is 11 km/s
meteorites are in 15-70 km/s range
apparently many km/s is enough to burn you, unless you have an ablative shield.

[Anonymous No.5211716]

>>5211688
You can't just say KE=Q, if you are using energy equations, you need some type of boundary. If the boundary is your entire steak, there is going to be work done on the system from the drag force, Heat transfer to the steak from conduction(could be convection? Not quite sure actually) from the surrounding air that is heated up from friction. Certainly the internal energy of the steak is increasing, otherwise the temperature of the steak wouldn't increase. Gravitational Potentinal Energy could be neglected, but it is needed to answer OP's original question, the distance needed to drop the steak.

[Anonymous No.5211718]

>>5211688
>assuming all the KE is converted to heat
assuming half of the KE is converted to heating the steak, the other half to heating the air

[Anonymous No.5211722]

>>5211711
So basically for the first bit of the fall you'd have to attach the steak to a rocket to bring it up to speed.

[Anonymous No.5211739]

>>5211716
>You can't just say KE=Q

Sure we can this is just an order of magnitude thing for fun.

If you're looking for an exact answer that's hardly the biggest source of error. The steak would probably immediately break up for a start.`

[Sugar !HVRS00ciDo No.5211748]

>>5211722
not necessarily, attach it to an orbiting object, like a space station, and drop it.

[Anonymous No.5211756]

>>5209698
>Medium well
Fuck yeah

[Anonymous No.5211759]

>>5211739
No you can't. That was already tried here >>5209751
and the answer was 7.8km which is obviously way too low.

[Anonymous No.5211774]

>>5211759
I'm not talking about Gravitational Potential Energy. Obviously that's wrong.

I'm talking about getting it up to speed before it hits the atmosphere by throwing it which is the only real way you could do this.

Just put in some numbers and it would need to be in the order of 1000's of metres per second (so some 1-10 km/s let's say).

I assumed it would heat up by 200 degrees and remain at that temperature for freefall at terminal velocity for however long it takes steaks to cook.

E = mcT = 1/2mv^2

v = sqrt(2cT) = sqrt(6.4e5) is gonna be somewhere in the range of hundreds to thousands of metres per second. The real value will obviously be higher for various reasons. I used c = 1.6 kJ/kgK from earlier in the thread.

[Anonymous No.5211785]

>>5209751
>Of course this is assumes all of the energy went into the steak, so the actual figure would be a bit higher.
>the actual figure would be a bit higher
>a bit higher
>a bit
Look at this faggot.

Allow me to throw out a few of the many concepts that would relate to this problem:
>Forced convection
>Variation in atmospheric density and temperature with altitude
>Stagnation conditions
>Thermal conductivity of the meat itself (MIGHT be negligible, but probably won't be)
>Actual average drag coefficient of the meat (remember, it will change depending on the meat's orientation), including wave drag (which will also vary once you go transonic)
Even that will only get you a first approximation.

[Anonymous No.5211789]

>>5209871
Cool, it's damn near piecewise.

[Anonymous No.5211802]

>>5211739
That won't even get you into the right order of magnitude. Most of the heat will be carried away by the air itself.

Hell, for MOST purposes in aerodynamics, flow is regarded as fully isotropic.

[Anonymous No.5211805]

>>5211802
Err, isentropic. And by that I actually mean adiabatic.

Fuck.

[Anonymous No.5211829]

>>5211774
How about setting the steak at a distance from the earth where it could enter an extremely weak orbit and, after gaining a significant amount of speed, reenter earth's atmosphere and cook? If that were possible, which it likely isn't, then the steak would not have to be shot at the earth.

[Anonymous No.5211839]

>>5211785

This isn't computational fluid dynamics it's a back of the envelope calculation.

Also I don't see how things like the drag coefficient and varying atmospheric density are really relevant. I'm not trying to model it's descent, just considering the beginning and end conditions.

[Anonymous No.5212100]

Could someone use this as a thesis or project? I'd love to see a paper on this.

[Anonymous No.5212123]

>>5211311
If I were to guess, probably the latter - reentry would only last for a matter of minutes, not nearly enough time to consider the effects of small changes in momentum due to Yarkovsky

[Anonymous No.5212189]

>>5212100
or something like xkcd what-if comic.

[Anonymous No.5212221]

>>5212189
Send it in! I'd love to see something on xkcd that came from a /sci/ thread

[Anonymous No.5212236]

Thank you based /sci/, this has been one of the most entertaining threads I've read in a while.

[Anonymous No.5212251]

>>5212189
Was actually my original thought, but I was AFK at the time and forgot about it.

[Anonymous No.5212249]

>>5212221
Done.

[Anonymous No.5212280]

>>5212236
>dat filename

how do we archive this thread

[Anonymous No.5212405]

>>5212280
Here

http://chanarchive.org/4chan/sci

[Anonymous No.5212462]

>>5210794
8 minutes. If it cooks in 5 its gonna be burnt pizza.

[Anonymous No.5212608]

>>5212249
... or well done?

Personally, I'm an experimentalist. I want to strap steaks to all surfaces of the SpaceX Dragon capsule and see which ones survive, much less cook properly.

[Anonymous No.5212617]

>>5212608
Steak Heat Shield - Protect your craft and enjoy a delicious steak dinner after landing.

*Baked potato landing struts not included

[Anonymous No.5212642]

>>5211680
yeah, how might we go about slowing down an object descending rapidly through earth's atmosphere. if only some sort of simple device capable of increasing drag had been invented, it would be able to save our steak, and may have even saved that poor red bull man from slamming into a mountain at the speed of sound.

[Anonymous No.5212645]

>>5211649
>eating raw beef

Enjoy your prions.

[Anonymous No.5212712]

>>5211680
Well, depending on its angle of descent it will probably aerobrake part of the way down. Then we can bring it the rest of the way using chutes, thrusters, or a combination of both.

Maybe have one of those big airbag things blow up around it as it nears the ground.

[Anonymous No.5212734]

>>5212712
Steak skycrane!!


Once the reaches the lower atmosphere and hits terminal velocity, a 'harness' of sorts rendezvous with and captures the steak before engaging the thrusters.

The thrusters slow the steak to descent speed and maneuver it to the landing site.

20 meters above the ground, the skycrane lowers the steak ever so gently onto a waiting plate which already contains a baked potato, corn, and a dinner roll.

[Anonymous No.5212738]

>>5212712
Steak skycrane!!

Once the steak reaches the lower atmosphere and hits terminal velocity, a 'harness' of sorts rendezvous with and captures the steak before engaging the thrusters.

The thrusters slow the steak to descent speed and maneuver it to the landing site.

20 meters above the ground, the skycrane lowers the steak ever so gently onto a waiting plate which already contains a baked potato, corn, and a dinner roll.


Bon apetit

[Anonymous No.5212744]

>>5212645
Cooking doesn't reliably destroy prions.

[Anonymous No.5212751]

>>5212744

Doesn't ever destroy prions, to be more accurate. Prions have a resistance to thermal denaturation much higher than anything else in your meat.

[Anonymous No.5212758]

[Anonymous No.5212757]

>>5212738
>20 meters above the ground, the skycrane lowers the steak ever so gently onto a waiting plate which already contains a baked potato, corn, and a dinner roll.
MAKE IT HAPPEN /sci/!!!

[Anonymous No.5212768]

potato

[Anonymous No.5212798]

>>5212712
Shake'n'Bake... eXXtreme!

[Anonymous No.5212833]

>>5209640
>First time on /sci/
>See 159 post thread about cooking steak with atmosphere.
>Lolwut

[Anonymous No.5212885]

>>5212642
If we do it correctly, it will hit terminal velocity right after it is cooked to it's maximum temperature. We could easily catch it in a net then. If we have it in an apparatus, then we can just design a parachute to come out of the apparatus.

[Anonymous No.5212888]

>>5212833
don't get your hopes up, it's usually just trolls, homework threads, and discussions of what would happen if a sun made of lava and a sun made of ice collided

[Anonymous No.5212894]

>>5212888
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN THOUGH

[Anonymous No.5212967]

>>5212894
i dunno, make a thread about it, see what the rest of /sci/ thinks

[Anonymous No.5212983]

>>5212894
>>5212967
No need, you cant have that much material in one place and have it maintain its composition as water or lava. The sun is not made out of special sun dust its just matter compressed to the point of fusion the same would happen with a sun sized nug of ice (water) or rock/lava.

[Anonymous No.5212993]

>>5212983
But the heavy atoms couldn't fuse, so would it collapse into a black hole?

[Anonymous No.5213040]

You're all forgetting that the thermosphere is hot enough to cook steak already.