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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5176124 No.5176124 [Reply] [Original]

Ok /sci/, I wasn't sure where to post this, but I think it goes here. I've been thinking about something and it's driving me crazy.

What if 4 wasn't 4? What if 4 was really 5, but we only know 4 to be 4 because it's been established for centuries that 4 is 4. Let's say that "I" is equal to what we know to be 1. We know 4 to be I I I I. But what if, when numbers were being established, 4 was I I I I I? You're probably thinking "No you dumbass, that's 5." But you only say that because you know I I I I I to be 5. What if the numbers went 1, 2, 3, 5, 4 instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, but 5 was equal to 4 because 5 was I I I I and 4 was I I I I I? Everything we know is only what we know because at some point in time it was established to be what we know. Someone understand what I just said and get back to me.

>> No.5176127

>>5176124
Stop smoking so much weed.

>> No.5176131

We can name things whatever we want. We could even have called {1, 2, 3, 4, 5} something like {#, &, @, %, !}, or {apple, orange, buttplug, banana, polar bear}. Doesn't change much, the meaning is the same.

>> No.5176134

Take number theory.

>> No.5176139

>>5176124

You're basically describing a system of arbitrary units. Wow... it's fucking nothing.

You know your mom as "mom", because that's what you've been taught about her, but I've always known her as a whore.

>> No.5176142

I get that it's arbitrary, but it's not "why," it's "what if".

>> No.5176144

You fucking dumbass it doesn't matter what name you give each number.

>> No.5176152

It doesn't matter if it does matter, but why doesn't it matter?

>> No.5176153

>>5176142
You clearly don't. There is no 'what if' in this case, the question doesn't make sense.

>> No.5176160

The question does make sense, I just applied it in a nonsensical manner that makes sense to a number of people.

>> No.5176174

>>5176160
The question appears to be 'What if we called numbers different thing?', the answer to which would be 'There would be literally no difference. You'd be as well asking 'What if my parents had called me a different name?'

>> No.5176179

So is math discovered or invented?

>> No.5176190

I didn't explain myself correctly. I'm not interested in "What if x was called y," I'm interested in "Why isn't x y, and vice versa". To my knowledge, that question doesn't have an answer.

>> No.5176195

>>5176190
I think the confusion lies in your understanding of what numbers are. They are nothing but our names for these things that appear to exist. Exchanging two of them would be nothing but exchanging names.

>> No.5176199

>>5176195
No, that's just surface stuff. It's the root of the name. Why isn't the name for "4" five?

>> No.5176206

>>5176195
This. /Thread

>> No.5176210

>>5176199
Because when the English language was formed they decided on four instead of five.

Etymology of four:
Middle English fower, from Old English fēower, from Proto-Germanic *fedwōr, from Proto-Indo-European *kʷetwóres. Cognate with German vier, Gothic

>> No.5176216

>>5176210
Thank you, this what I've been looking for. I suppose if I really wanted to get into it, I'd ask how people got to Middle English, how they got to what came before Middle English, etc., but I'm not sure how far it goes back. I have some research to do. Thanks again.

Turns out this has nothing to do with science or math.

>> No.5176222

>>5176216
0/10

>> No.5176224

>>5176216
It's just an arbitrary label, like all words are, for different concepts and objects etc.

>> No.5176231

>>5176124
Oh my god this is moronic, 1,2,3,4,5 etc etc are simply placeholders no different to a,b,c,d or even g or h in algebra and hold a value arbitrarily assigned, albeit definitively.

That is to say that denotatively speaking 4 is greater than 3 and less than five, yet its physical manifestation holds no other value than that assigned to it by the English language.


IT DOES NOT MATTER SHOULD WE COUNT 1 2 3 5 4. numerically we are still counting increasing integers, the placeholders having simply changed definitions.

This is a question of etymology nothing more.

>> No.5176234

>>5176231
Dude, the thread is over, the OP found what he was looking for, and you're kind of sounding like a dick for going off about how moronic it is instead of just explaining things.

>> No.5176658

I think OP has a valid point.

>>5176179
invented