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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5171088 No.5171088 [Reply] [Original]

hey guys
how to get best efficiency in electrolysis of water?
what is more important, volt or ampere?
(i dont want any byproducts at the cathode or anode if adding electrolyt (which is best for that?)

also, if i have 3.6 ampere and 6 volt, what is the best size to use for the cathode, what material would be best, and how far does the cathode have to be from the anode?

thx in advance

>> No.5171105

eh, just re-read it and it sounds like i want you to do my school homework.
but im doing a solar-hydrogen vehicle-project and need the information for that

>> No.5171135

Amperage is much more important, you could expose water to millions of volts of static (No current) and it wouldn't do a damn thing to it. 3.6 amps should get you a decent amount of hydrogen, it'd probably take a while though. It depends on if you are gathering the hydrogen beforehand then letting the vehicle run, or if the hydrogen will be a constant source.

Graphite makes good electrodes since it doesn't oxidize in any way, you just have to make it so only the graphite and no metal is in contact with the solution.

If you want the most bang for your buck, you can let the anode and cathode mix the oxygen and hydrogen to give the hydrogen more to bond to. The reaction gets a lot more force behind it this way, but the benefit would depend on your design.

>> No.5171146

Electrolysis won't happen if you don't actually move electrons into/out of the electrodes. It doesn't matter what the potential difference is, you still won't get electrolysis.

So amps is where it's at.

>> No.5171153

>>5171135
thanks for the answer
what voltage is ideal for 3.6 amperage?
i only need the hydrogen since i will store it in small mineral tanks (makes the hydrogen go into the moluculs of the mineral and releases them again if the tank is opened (or connected to a hydrogen cell for example))

what would be better, graphite or silver? (or maybe platin but thats really expensive..)

and can you tell me how would i calculate the best (most efficient) size of cathode/anode @ 3.6 ampereage and 7.2 amperage?

>> No.5171167

>>5171146
thx too

>>5171153
*and the distance between them


also does higher temperature of the water boost the process or the opposite? (increasing restisstance of electrodes, so it gets mroe difficult?)

>> No.5171205

>>5171153
I think platinum would actually be better, but the benefit would probably be negligible. Silver is not ideal because it oxidizes.

As I said, doesn't really matter too much, you could probably calculate an ideal sweet spot between the two, but that'd be rather difficult. Raising voltage at such a high current can also be very dangerous, 50 volts at 1 amp will happily kill you.

Really, to get the most hydrogen, you'll want to get the most current you can. The way I electrolyze water is with a trickle car battery charger, if you're gathering hydrogen before hand, this would be a good way of doing it. It can go up to 75 amps, but I have no idea what it would do.

I have no idea how electrode size would affect it, but as a very wild shot I'd say bigger electrodes mean more bubbles.

Temperature is another wild shot, but I'd imagine less entropy would allow the current to do its thing more effectively.

>> No.5171231

>>5171205
wouldn't keeping the solution acidic keep silver from oxidizing? I thought sulfur compounds are the more common tarnishing products of silver, followed by silver hydroxide, which probably won't happen in acid.

I think if you could get silver to work, it'd be a better electrode since the resistance is much much lower than graphite, so you get more amps put into the solution than heating your electrodes resistively.

Then again, i'm not very good so most of this is baseless speculation.

>> No.5171422
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5171422

>>5171205
yea i obviously wont be using much volt, (anyways, under 50 V AC or 120 V DC it's not dangerous to use a lot of Amperage)

i will try silver with an electrolyt then and also graphite

>>5171231
i just looked online, silver is the best conductor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conductivity

so ill need to figure out a way so it doesnt oxidize, what acidic solution will actually not affect the electrodes, does anyone know?


also, a side-question
why does the water change it's color and clearness after electrolysis?
i used copper and pure water
pic related, looks bluish and unclear

>> No.5171458

>>5171422
Electrolyte*

>> No.5171463

>>5171422
The copper was oxidized into ions during electrolysis. The blueness comes from those ions.

>> No.5171817

bump for increasing efficiency in all aspects

>> No.5171982

bump

>> No.5172006

Obviously you want high voltage. Higher voltage, higher efficiency. You'll want to stack plates in a series for higher efficiency.

If you're into conspiracy theory, Stanley Meyer developed a way to split water which used less energy than burning the product generated. Supposedly it had to do with voltage and a resonant frequency of the water. He tuned it somehow like an instrument, else it wouldn't work properly.

>> No.5172017

>>5171422
Stainless steel 316 (marine grade) is what you want to use to prevent degradation of electrodes. You also don't want to overload your electrodes with current. There's a certain limit you don't want to go past or they will break down.

Graphite won't work. The cathode will degrade.

Your water is blue because you were probably using copper electrodes.

>> No.5172038

>>5172006
More recently United Nuclear developed a technology in which solar power was harnessed to split water for hydrogen vehicles. But they got raided by feds, who probably wanted to shut down the hydrogen deal.

>> No.5172186

>>5172017
Graphite works fine, unless you're going for something flawless. It's also cheaper than silver or platinum.

>> No.5173520

>>5172006
But i see so many videos on YT where they use car batteries for electrolysis and they get quite good results.
Do you know the ideal amount of volt and amperage?

>> No.5173525

>>5171167
You're not going to be able to control the temperature unless you keep the current low. It's going to rise on its own pretty quickly.

>> No.5173537

That with meyer sounds interesting, tuning the frequency with the one of water, same idea tesla used 100 years agi (earthquake machine). But how would one do that? How can you find out the frequency of water moleculs? Is anything written down ob this subject?

>> No.5173770

question: would aluminium be bad or good for an electrolysis of water with potassium hydroxide as electrolyte?
as in bad: would it be good for conducting and would aluminium oxidize or suffer in this reaction?

>> No.5173887

Bump

>> No.5174967

Bump

>> No.5174997

>>5173770
Al reacts with alkali metals to form aluminates.

>> No.5175041

>how to get best efficiency in electrolysis of water?
By boiling the water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_electrolysis

>> No.5175110

>>5175041
Thanks but this hogh temp. Electrolysis is not possible for my small project

>> No.5175461

Bump

>> No.5176359

Bump

>> No.5176651

Bump as in asking how to find the best size of electrodes and their distance.

>> No.5177606

bbb

>> No.5178261

little bump

>> No.5179635

Bum

>> No.5179663

>>5173520
Not familiar with electrolysis at all, but it would depend on the amperage you're looking for as voltage isn't your concern. Potential difference isn't going to do a damn thing unless current is flowing.

You want 3.6 amps According to a post up top?

Car batteries are around 12V, R=V/I
12.0/3.6

You'd need around about a 10 ohm resistor inline to get the job done

>> No.5179676

>>5179663
er, sorry, 3 ohm* rather. meant 10/9