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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5167070 No.5167070 [Reply] [Original]

I'm stuck. does this make sense?

>> No.5167104

Why would you do this?

>> No.5167113

Mendeleev might have been wrong. .

>> No.5167120

Jesus Christ it's magnificent.
Who made this?

>> No.5167130

>>5167120
A wizard, now tell me what it is?

>> No.5167141

i did.

>>5167130
WHO TOLD YOU I WAS.. oh haha yeah that's funny.

i think it's an arrangement of the periodic table where the form is sort of extrapolated from the underlying mathematical relationships of the elements. i think it might be able to predict the properties of the trans-uranic elements.

>> No.5167185

>>5167141

Have you predicted any islands of stability?

>> No.5167194

oh god what
this is hurting my brain
why is it going around like a maze?
I'm not a chemistry fag btw, just curious

>> No.5167205

Wow, I wonder if it's possible to fit a Fibonacci spiral in there somehow.

>> No.5167210

this is wrong on many levels

>> No.5167216

>manly colours

>> No.5167223

sorry about that got knocked offline for a sec

>>5167185
no not yet, i did this in about a day and then filed it away for the last few years.

>>5167194
yeah i'm wondering that too. i don't think linearly very well. i just jump straight from the idea to the semi-finished thing and so it's really hard to explain.

>>5167205
that was part of the inspiration for it

>>5167210
any details would be helpful i'm fucking lost as shit.

further thoughts:
you may notice that the jumps always leave from a nobel gas, (or usually, i think they always do)

you have to understand I have severe ADHD (i'm on disability for it) so this is like pulling teeth for me to finish.

>> No.5167293

Provided it's not some sort of copypasta, I'm positively baffled by that thing.
What the hell are the colors though?

>> No.5167296

Where does the concrete positioning come from? Is there any system to the way the elements are sorted on the microscopic level?
Do i1 through i5 have any meaning in current chemistry? I was not able to find anything to it (I get the part with the periods).

>> No.5167309

>>5167296
It's the last filled orbital.
(i1 gets only s1, i2 is everything up to p3 filled, i3 up to p5 filled and so on)

>> No.5167312

>>5167296
>>5167309 here
In return, can you explain the part with the periods?

>> No.5167316

>>5167293
group.

it's not copypasta.

>>5167296
>Where does the concrete positioning come from?

i'm not sure.


>>5167312
i1 is p1
i2 is p2 & 3
i3 is p4 & 5

etc

it just made sense to have them in square valued groups, instinctually.

i think the main problem with Mendeleev's table was that it's trying to force a natural phenomena into a linear format

this also may solve the problem with how they aren't sure where to place Hydrogen on Mendeleev's table. because some of its properties resembles that of alkali metals i-e elements in group 1 and with the halogens i-e elements of group 17

>> No.5167321

also note i am not a trained chemist. i dropped out of high school so some terminology goes right over my head.

>> No.5167326

>>5167316
>group
I don't understand why Tc through Cd are a different color. They are groups 7 to 12, aren't they?

>> No.5167329

>>5167312
Just the part in the parentheses under the i1 - i5.
i1 maps to first period (1s)
i2 to 2nd and 3rd: highest are p orbitals.
i3: highest are d orbitals.
i4: f orbitals (57-71 and 89-103) -> 6th and 7th periods.

not sure whether I got that completely right, since >118 would have some higher 5 orbitals (one after 5s, 5p, 5d, and 5f). not even discovered yet, at least not stable enough to have been completely understood

>> No.5167345

>>5167326
actually i'm not sure. this took me a few hours to make, but the whole thing basically popped into my head as one piece and I was scrambling to get it down, i'm sure there are many mistakes in it. and this was like 4 years ago. i'm sure there was some reason for that specific change though, I just can't remember what it was.

>> No.5167353

Is it preposterous to ask for a HD version?
I'm definitely sticking that to the lab wall.

>> No.5167356

hang on i'll upload a pdf.

>> No.5167360

It's ... it's so beautiful.

>> No.5167387

What happens from 56 to 59 that it crosses so many different colors? They do not by any means represent groups. Maybe some electron configuration; however, that'd only be some very specific property. Please explain the colors a bit more.

>> No.5167388

here you go

bayfiles.com/file/ohuP/jN70ZL/mptoe_version_12_WIP.pdf

>> No.5167397

>>5167387
give me a minute i'm going to check my files again to try and reboot my memory of this.

>> No.5167414

it might be block, checking

>> No.5167418

i think it's some fucked up combination of block and period.. checking further

>> No.5167444

>>5167388
based OP delivers

>> No.5167476

ah fuck, i can't figure out what the method was. i have been awake for around 26 hours.

that's why I came here, i'm in over my head

>> No.5167478

>>5167444
based?

>> No.5167508

>>5167478
search on "based god"

>> No.5167523

>>5167508
ahh i see now thank you for explaining

>> No.5167725

Don't let this thing die!

>> No.5167738

how long does it usually take for a thread to die on this board? don't worry i'll stick around and repost occasionally over the next few months. i want to get this fucking thing sorted out.

>> No.5167834

Wow

>> No.5167865

do you think a mod would be willing to pin this thread or just prevent it from 404ing?

i don't come to this board very often so i don't know what the protocol is

>> No.5167957

As a chemist, let me say what the fuck is this shit?

>> No.5167971

>>5167957
that's what I'm trying to figure out. i'm not claiming that this is valid, i'm trying to figure out if there is something to it.

>> No.5167978

>>5167957
I agree. What? What about electron counts? Where's the pattern?

>> No.5167979
File: 423 KB, 1430x1058, 1291780240804.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5167979

>>5167971
stop, please stop

pic related on how this periodic table feels.

>> No.5167984

>>5167865

Yes! I want this to be a sticky as well. I will go make a thread on /q/ asking for a mod.

>> No.5167987

>>5167316
>i'm not sure.
Then why did you make it?

It has no useful properties.

>i think the main problem with Mendeleev's table was that it's trying to force a natural phenomena into a linear format
Mendeleev's table has a very logical table. Every row shows a filled shell! (Obviously that's not really true for the d elements, but ssshhh)

The columns give some good prediction for properties, but obviously it's not everything there is. It predicts nothing for transition metals, many characteristics move in an uncharacteristic way. It's not a perfect prediction, it's just an ordering.

>> No.5167993

>>5167987
>Then why did you make it?

I just do things. this kind of thing has happened to me before. i put it away, and then 15 years later I hear about someone patenting that exact thing, or selling it to the us army for millions of dollars, and i'm fucking tired of it. if there is something to this, I want to find out.

>> No.5168001

>>5167993
>i put it away, and then 15 years later I hear about someone patenting that exact thing
Well, that's not possible anymore, haha.

I'm a chemist, I don't see anything useful in it, but don't take my word for it.

>> No.5168000

>>5167987
There are actually quite a few predictable properties for the transition metals based on their columns. Typically the first and second metal in each group will have very similar chemistry due to analagous electronics. Introduction of the F orbitals does complicate things a bit, but it's not to say that they're completely arbitrary.

>> No.5168002

>>5167978
Hi chemfag.
I didn't know you left our special chon.

>> No.5168006

>>5168001
>Well, that's not possible anymore, haha.

i don't understand

>> No.5168013

>>5168006
You can't patent anything after it has become public.

>> No.5168019

>>5168013
i don't count this among the things i should have patented

>> No.5168036

>>5168002
Que?

>> No.5168058
File: 41 KB, 760x488, 254628_486260558061627_1158216365_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5168058

ChemEng student here. This seems nonsensical , why do you have things grouped like this? Have you even taken physical chemistry?

>> No.5168065

Looks like it would make a neat Super Mario Galaxy level

>> No.5168083
File: 741 KB, 2000x1703, periodictable.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5168083

My favorite

>> No.5168103

as it stands right now i have four very weal datapoints that make me think there is something to this. the fact that the pattern seems to be related to the fibonacci spiral, i repeat for emphasis, seems. the fact that the pattern is symmetrical, and the colours do mean something, I don't remember specifically what I derived them from, but i do know that I derived them from something, and was very careful. the fact that the ordering causes a jump in the sequence on noble gases, which i found out after ordering them. and the possibility that this may solve the problem with Mendeleev's table in that the positioning of hydrogen is uncertain.

i came here because i'm trying to understand if there is something to this, not to try to prove that this is correct. i don't care if this seems nonsensical to you. "seems" isn't science. and as i've also said multiple times, i didn't work this out, it occurred to me, fully formed, instantly. so i tried to get it all down on paper as fast as I could, there may be mistakes, i don't know. i dropped out of high school. i have no education in chemistry beyond that. i also want to see if someone who actually has been educated in chemistry can help me sort of reverse engineer how the ordering and grouping in this works.

>> No.5168120

>>5168058
sure looks pretty though, what gives op?

>> No.5168122

>>5168103
>weal datapoints

weak datapoints.

anyways, i'm in a rush now because if what limited understanding I have about this is correct, which I freely admit, probably isn't, then it will predict the properties of transuranic elements, and i'd like, if it is at all possible, to get the underlying mechanics of this worked out so that i can make those predictions before these properties are known.

>> No.5168143

the part that i haven't mentioned yet, is that this occurred to me after I had been working for several months in my free time on GUT. which i may have solved. this is actually a very strange extrapolation, in fact, of the equation that i had been dealing with as that possible solution.

>> No.5168150

>>5168143

that is totally awesome.

i hope the mod sticky's this so everyone will know.

>> No.5168156

>>5168150
don't get excited, the equation is about a hundred times crazier sounding than this periodic table looks.

>> No.5168179

OP could you upload the pdf again? It says file not found on the last one.

>> No.5168203

This is interesting, I suppose. One thing that upsets me in that there is seemingly no organization within each column (in the case of your model, each color.) Also, the noble gasses are spread out in a way that there seems to be no pattern among them. I like the colors, though.

>>5168083
I've seen that too, I like that one more.

>> No.5168206

>>5168179
yeah i deleted it, one sec.

>> No.5168211

>>5168179
bayfiles.com/file/oiZL/bnRRNE/mptoe_version_12_WIP.pdf

>> No.5168212

>>5168083
/thread

>> No.5168218

>>5168203
i'm not shooting for aesthetically pleasing. i'm shooting for scientifically correct.

>> No.5168225

.

>> No.5168230

>>5168211

Printed it out. I'll see if my chem teacher can make any sense of it tomorrow.

>> No.5168227

Once the jump from Nb to Mo was made, i think is where this goes wrong. I don't see a purpose besides the sake of making a 4X4 box. I think one of your biggest issues is your commitment to the boxes. It might look nice as a whole, but makes it too confusing. I would like to see you make it work, don't get me wrong, but most periodic tables are just used for organization and ease of reading and identification.

>> No.5168232

>>5168218
I understand, but I think that your commitment to the perfect boxes is already a step towards the aesthetically pleasing over scientifically accurate.

>> No.5168236

>>5168227
>It might look nice as a whole, but makes it too confusing.

yeah but both of those points are completely unrelated as to whether this is correct or not.

the fact that you can't tell whether or not someone is chinese just by looking at their DNA doesn't mean that DNA doesn't make sense, it just doesn't make sense in an obvious manner.

>> No.5168240

>>5168232
the fact that it's composed of perfect squares is an extrapolation of the equation i mentioned.

>> No.5168239

Did someone get the dotted circle?
What are they supposed to mean?

>> No.5168242

>>5168239
that's just an indicator to highlight where the sequence jumps

>> No.5168249

>>5168240
Wat equation. Show.

>> No.5168250

also in i5 is where i think i completely went off the rails, i have to figure out the process that i went through so that I can check it

>> No.5168257

oh lovely. the thread snapped;

>> No.5168260

ok there we go.

>>5168249
yeah i dunno if it's a good idea to talk about that yet.

>> No.5168531

ok i have to get some sleep. hopefully this thread will still be here later, thank you for your feedback everyone.

>> No.5168631

>>5168260
see
>>5168225

>> No.5168673

>>5168631
oh no! someone is calling me a troll! on 4chan! heavens to betsy! what shall i do!?!?!

oh i guess i'll ignore it and continue the conversation later.

congratulations?

>> No.5168681

>>5168631
i mean seriously, if you are right, what have you accomplished?

>oh thank god, all those anonymous people who don't know who the fuck i am are aware that i didn't get fooled.

retard.

>> No.5168720

>>5168681
y u mad tho?

>> No.5170520

I repainted an extended version of the standard periodic table.
hope it helps someone finding a pattern.
43-48 really look somewhat weird.

the first two elements in each new subdivision are yellow, the following four green. (except 43, 44, as mentioned above). then at least seven bright blue (except 43-48).
jumps occur at 18, 41, 53, 54, 98, 110, 117, 118, 131, 132, 164, and 170.

>> No.5170523
File: 141 KB, 1803x614, rfhgspdf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5170523

>>5170520
here you go

>> No.5170527

>>5170523
218 would also require a jump to 219. so there's a pattern of every other noble gas.

>> No.5171189

don't let this die

>> No.5171707

Bump, interested

>> No.5171847

>>5170523
see this is the power of fresh eyes, thank you for this. yeah i got so focused on trying to figure out how to get everything to fit into that pattern that i didn't for a second think to see how it worked in the Mendeleev table.

>> No.5171865

i also want to say that i think that one possible motive underlying some of the criticism i've gotten might be based on the perception that i'm trying to present this as a fait accompli, perfect and complete. it's not at all that. this is just a doodle on a napkin as far as i'm concerned. i just happen to be a graphic designer, so my doodles tend to look deceptively polished.

>> No.5171990
File: 11 KB, 400x300, Mexican-Baseball-lg.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5171990

Have you guys taken chem? I can't believe this troll is still leading you on. He didn't take any relativistic effects into account with the heavier atoms, the perfect squares go to shit when electrons go that fast. Chemist still don't know the traits of some of the undiscovered super heavy elements, though he claims to know them all AND it all just happens to be linear? I'm losing faith in you /sci/

>> No.5172030

>>5171990
It's interesting that you got
>he claims to know them all
from
>i think it might be able to predict the properties of the trans-uranic elements.

I've been very clear, repeatedly that this is completely speculative and riddled with errors, and I have explained why. I'm not here to prove this is right. I'm here to find out if there is something to this.

>> No.5172096
File: 41 KB, 500x509, 543214_537041842991940_1747653_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5172096

There is nothing to this, no accounting for higher orbitals, no distributions for electronegativty or trends. It's just a bunch of squares. There are a lot of alternate periodic tables, but they don't stand up to the original nor or they perfect squares.