/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.5047710]

Gender identity.

Is it the society that shapes men to be less emotional, aggressive and have the more dominant role through spoonfeeding us with the ideal of a man and the norm, so that's why we become who we are?

Or

Is it mostly reliant on our biological heritage, our genes, hormones and genitalia?

Discuss.

[Anonymous No.5047728]

shameless bump

If the society shaped us to our gender identity, what of children who are raised by a homosexual couple?

No study says the children who are raised by a homosexual couple have more of a chance to become homosexual themselves, even though they are brought up in a homosexual enviroment, that should've "shaped" them.

Also, homosexuals always say they were born liking the same sex, as in genetics, possibility of a homosexual gene?

[Anonymous No.5047749]

false dichotomy

why can't it be both?

[Anonymous No.5047756]

Studies proofed that it's biological.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrsF7wyUxs8

[Anonymous No.5047758]

Neither.

Genes and society are already causally determined by the universe's fully deterministic nature.

[Anonymous No.5047761]

Yes

[Anonymous No.5047768]

This discussion would be ended officially if all of you would read an introductory psychology or neuroscience text book for 10 minutes.

The "Nature-vs-Nurture" debate is over. We know that every psychological and neurological (and a very large number of biological) phenomenon is both genetic and socio-environmentally influenced. For example: you're born with a certain range of intelligence, but your environment, your diet, your upbringing, your activities, and your education all affect your actual intelligence. If you are mentally-ill, some part of your genetic code made you predisposed toward that illness, even if it was indirect (so perhaps you are not genetically likely to develop depression specifically, but instead to have dopamine or serotonin regulation issues in general). Note that this does not mean that you must have had a gender dysphoric family member in order to be dysphoric yourself, merely that some set of genes related to that expression might predispose you toward gender dysphoria. It's all probabilities.

So in answer to your question, there is a vast amount of evidence pointing to the fact that gender identity is genetic. Boys act differently than girls even in a neutral environment. However, there is also a lot of evidence that upbringing and environment and experiences all affect gender identity as well.

[Anonymous No.5047773]

>>5047768
Captain Obvious saved the thread.

[Anonymous No.5047777]

>>5047768

>So in answer to your question, there is a vast amount of evidence pointing to the fact that gender identity is genetic.

Sources please? Would love a good read.

[Anonymous No.5047778]

GENDER IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT
Everyone claiming it's not is a sexist cis-scum.

[Anonymous No.5047787]

>>5047756
>>5047756
>>5047756
This is the whole video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ2xrnyH2wQ

See 17:26

Evidence that gender identity isn't a social construct, but biological.

[Anonymous No.5047801]

>>5047787

Holy shit, ty. I've been waiting to destroy someone like >>5047778

[Anonymous No.5047815]

>Is it the society that shapes men to be less emotional

Yes because in other cultures, men are more emotional. All men are not cold, emotionless, etc. These are American stereotypes and culture.

Biologically driven behavior would be that which does not change based on culture.

It's both, it's always going to be both. Anyone who seriously thinks that wearing pink is genetic is a fucking retard who's just padding their worldview because they're back lashing against the transgender shit. You don't fight ignorance with willful ignorance.

[Anonymous No.5047821]

>>5047815
>Yes because in other cultures, men are more emotional
In which?

[Anonymous No.5047824]

>not knowing FUCKING GENES determine your gender for-ever

anyone not supporting this was skipping biology classes in high-school to join a slutwalk
Why are people still questioning this obvious fact just proves how ignorant, dumb, plain-stupid the average person is

[Anonymous No.5047828]

>>5047787

"evidence..."

then if you're born 'male', why would you feel the need to become 'female'?

[Anonymous No.5047834]

Many of the "manly" characteristics that are (or were) present in the West are also present in plenty of, if not all other cultures in the world.

For example the forming of all-male coalitions for the sole purpose of warfare is found in ALL documented human groups.

One thing that is often neglected when saying "Its just our culture!" is to simply look at other cultures, and we often find similar patterns with them, too.

There are even gender roles in most mammalian species. It is basically tied to the lesser sex-life of the female due to the long gestation time, sacrificing her ability to continuously reproduce and thus develop the characteristics needed to continually reproduce (gained through constant intrasex competition in the male case).

[Anonymous No.5047832]

>>5047824

GENDER = SEX FOREVER THEY ARE THE SAME THING AND INSEPARABLE ALWAYS I STATE FACTS ALL THE TIME AND AM WELL GROUNDED IN REALITY UNLIKE THE IGNORANT AND SILLY OPPOSITION

>board dedicated to science and math
>nobody can argue

I want a /deb/ate board.

[Anonymous No.5047833]

Using the terms "Gender Identity" and "Gender Roles" interchangeably.....

This is a massive failure.

[Anonymous No.5047839]

>>5047828
There are different reasons for gender identy disorder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism

[Anonymous No.5047845]

>>5047832
for what, debating the earth isn't round just because you like to pretened you are ignorant and don't want to get simple facts this board is based upon.

[Anonymous No.5047851]

>>5047845

>pulling out the flat earth analogy

That's why right there. The only reason this board exists is homework help and for /pol/ to come complain about shit under the guise of being scientific. Everyone here wants to have the superior stance yet nobody really backs up anything.

Insulting me only proves my point so please, continue.

[Anonymous No.5047861]

>>5047851
sorry but feminist irational bullshit 101 wich you like to support is not science

[Anonymous No.5047873]

I have a bachelor's degree in gender studies and gender identiy has nothing to do with biology.

Proof me wrong!

[Anonymous No.5047884]

I have a bachelor's degree in gender studies and gender identiy has nothing to do with biology.

Prove me wrong!

[Anonymous No.5047885]

>>5047873
Of course it doesn't, neither does species identity. I could call myself a cat (and people do) until the cows come home, but I'm not a cat, am I? I'm biologically a human male.
The most laughable thing I ever heard was someone telling me "I'm a man but I'm not male". Just fuck off.

[Anonymous No.5047887]

>>5047885
That was directed at >>5047884

[Anonymous No.5047899]

>>5047885
Your privilege is showing, cis scum!

[Anonymous No.5047943]

No bro, it's about being the greatest of all time; est-ce que ce, you're more than implying that women can't do that with your contention; what are you . . . the S?

Que esta hombre; Vat ist dies mann?

[Anonymous No.5047944]

>>5047899
I have just as much privilege as the white male who made that claim. He just refuses to 'identify' as male or female, despite seemingly identifying as a man. It probably makes him feel special or something, I don't know. Tell me why I should have to respect him for that.

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.5047953]

Both nature and nurture play a role.

Hormones shape the development of the brain in the womb to form evolutionary advantageous male and female behavioral traits, after the brain has developed no new instincts are "hard-wired", however the intensity of emotions are influenced by hormones.

On top of this what a person learns to associate these emotions with and whether these emotions atrophy or hypertrophy with disuse or use depends on "nurture", life experiences and environment.

[Anonymous No.5047954]

>>5047884
How people treat you affects your psychological development.
People usually treat biological males in stereotypically male ways, and the converse for biological females.
Therefore, biology would affect gender identity even if gender identity was entirely socially constructed.

[Anonymous No.5048175]

bump

[Anonymous No.5048214]

nice thread

[Anonymous No.5048344]

sci? ;_;

[Anonymous No.5048708]

>>5048344
fi?

[Anonymous No.5048743]

>>5047710
Testosterone.

Causes our aggressiveness in a few ways. Conditioning just shapes it more.

[Anonymous No.5048736]

I never clearly understood this "gender is a social construct" thing, probably because I'm not from America, where this topic is object of debate.

I'm a biotechnology student, I know gender is a biological matter. I know there are cases of homosexuality in animals, so humans are not the only ones experiencing homosexuality.

For example, something like pic related is completely unrelated from my studies, or my personal knowledge or "morality". I ahve no problem with people being gay, bisexual or transexual, there causes and there are studies behind them, we stil don't know if it's a genetic predisposition or if it's something one becomes.

But saying that my body doesn't define myself, it's completely illogical.

[Anonymous No.5048742]

>>5048736
..aaaand I forgot my pic.

[Anonymous No.5048756]

>>5048736
You can't put a label on an entire gender. Sure, your 'body' may define YOURSELF. It doesn't define everybody else, though.

Now with society in a comfortable state, safe from predators and with a higher value on brain than brawns (actually, I retract that: brains have always been more important), we have seen an increase in 'feminine' men.

Thin physiques, metrosexual fashion, overly-sensitive and emotional etc

Only our social constructs can explain this.

[Anonymous No.5048758]

>>5048743
i don't know, I mean - yeah, sure testosterone 'adds' to our aggressiveness; but I find women just as aggressive from personal experience, if not, more aggressive and confronting than men.

[Carl No.5048797]

>>5048758
agreed

[Anonymous No.5048803]

>>5048756
I understand what you're saying, but I believe I'm talking about something else:

if I look in my pants, I see a penis. There are no social constructs that can change this. If I'm not okay with my body, if I feel like a woman, then I can get a sex-change surgery, and then, the next time I'll look inside my pants, I won't see my penis no more. That doesn't mean my chromosomes changed from XY to XX, and all the hormones in the world won't change this.

I agree society may be one of the causes of this "sexual disorientation", but there are 2 genders. A transexual is a male/female that becomes a female/male.
But genetically speaking, you can't say there's a "transexual gene" that cuts your dick.

[Anonymous No.5048808]

>>5048803
Oh sure, I agree with you there.

I'm talking about the mindframe, personality and attitude as opposed to the differentiated organs.