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/sci/ - Science & Math

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5016059 No.5016059 [Reply] [Original]

Do ants into feelings?

>> No.5016063

Nope.

>> No.5016067

>>5016063
Why?

So I could just destroy their homes and they would not give a single fuck?

>> No.5016072
File: 23 KB, 400x400, 13377194081.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5016072

define "feelings"

>> No.5016080

>>5016067
Exactly.

>> No.5016081

>>5016077
Define "emotions".

>> No.5016077

>>5016072
Emotions?

>> No.5016095

Emotions are for EMOs and fags

That's why they call them Emo

>> No.5016119

>Do ants into feelings?
fuck if I know

...around my place, they mostly into insecticide (outside) and diatomaceous earth (inside the house)

>> No.5016163 [DELETED] 

>>5016059
>Do ants into feelings?
English is not your first language, I presume.
*Do ants have feelings?

They respond to external stimuli, so yes.

>> No.5016178

They react to sensations. So in a very rudimentary sense, yes.

>> No.5016181

>>5016059
The topic of an agent moving around in the world and reacting to outside signals in a particular way is even larger than ants. You can psychologize almost any systematic behaviour this way. You might ask: does a remote-controlled toy-car experience love towards a button-press because it seems to get excited... or perhaps it experiences hate because its natural state seems to be to stand idle thus movement being resentful to it... etc.

>> No.5016190

>>5016181
Except ants have brains in order to process information in their environment through touch and chemical sensation. An RC car doesn't have any such AI.

>> No.5016192

>>5016163
Psy student here, and english is not my native language (so it may be a difference between words/translation that lead into a difference between concepts)
But having an intentional response is necessary to have feelings. Ants response to stimulus isn't intentional, it's just chemical, so they have no feelings.

capthca: emotheme feudal

>> No.5016195 [DELETED] 

>>5016192
How do you define what is 'intentional?

A humans response to stimuli is also chemical.
Humans still have feelings.

>> No.5016196

>>5016192
Why is intention necessary? Chemical drugs and hormones lead to very profound emotional feelings.

>> No.5016199

>>5016190
>Except ants have brains in order to process information in their environment through touch and chemical sensation.

If RC cars don't process information, then why do they react to inputs?

>> No.5016206

>>5016199
RC cars have a human mind controlling them. The driver is analogous to the brain, the radio waves would be firing motor neurons, and the electricity turning the wheels would be the muscles.

>> No.5016207

>>5016178
Not the way we react to sensations. They mostly react to pjeromones.

They could be burning alive and keep working, they don't care about the physical pain. The are not emotionally attached to their queen or other ants, when the queen is weak they kill her and help the new candidate.

Dogs have feelings, cats have feeling, but ants? I'm not sure.

>> No.5016212

>>5016206
Let's assume after you're done playing with the car, you place it down and a gust of wind comes along and knocks it down a cliff. As it bounces of rocks, input is sent to the RC car.

>> No.5016219

>>5016195
Everything humans do is intentional. We have a clear goal we want to achieve and act according to that. We are concious about what we want, and what other people want and we can 'shape' our behaviour around that conciousness.

I now realize that there might be a language problem in the difference between the words emotions, feelings, etc.
If anyone is interested about that subject can read:
'Emotions are social' by Brian Parkinson
Looking for Spinoza by Antonio Damasio
'La mirada mental' by Angel Riviere (if you find it translated)
And some introductory lectures by Vigotsky on how every human psychological activity is social and not just intrasubjetive.

Sorry I can't stay longer, I have to go to class.

btw, read also about the 'Theroy of Mind' and the experience with a chimanzee called Sarah (I think David Premack was the one who lead the investigation)

>> No.5016221

>>5016190
>>5016206
>>5016207
You guys need to demystify the whole "speciality" of the brain and "though process" issue for yourselves.

>> No.5016226

>>5016207
Humans also react to pheromones.

Ants go into frenzies when they sense certain chemicals, when their body is threatened, or when their hive is attacked.

I'm not sure what facilities are needed in the brain in order to feel feels, but it seems that ants do in fact experience reality on a very simplistic level.

>> No.5016227

>>5016207
That's kind of what I wanted to say. Ants don't feel good or bad. They don't feel remorse, guilt or shame. All their 'feelings' are triggered in a very basic stimulus-reaction way (the secretion of a determined pheromone, the presence of other ants in their habitat, etc)

>> No.5016228

>>5016219
Do you breathe intentionally? Do you blink your eyes intentionally? Do you intentionally exert sweat? Do you intentionally do anything? Intention is just another empty word that people use to describe sensation-reaction chains.

>> No.5016231

>>5016212
That kind of chance input would be similar to us reacting to various chemical imbalances in our body and brain.

Humans are biological machines, like ants, though we have far more complex feedback systems with our thoughts and emotions to regulate behavior.

>> No.5016240

>>5016228
>another empty word that [people proclaiming to do science, but actually leech off of society with claims about the "psyche"]
Fixed!

>> No.5016254

>>5016228
>>5016226

I'm not saying humans only react in an intentional way. Or that we are immune to pheromones or that there is no place for mechanical events in the human way. I'm sorry if what I said was misinterpreted.
I'm just saying that it's really close-minded to think the human behaviour of more 'sophisticated' feelings (shame, proud, guilt, etc) as just a chemical reaction. Yes some emotions we have, like fear, work just like they work in animals (in front of some stimulus we react producing specific hormones), but not all emotions work the same way.

That's what I know from what I have read, If you guys can recommend me some lectures that defend your point I'll happily read them (when I have some time). And I hope you can read something of what I posted, so we can have a more enriching discussion.

pd: I'm not a regular /sci/ lurker, psychology thread can be made here or is more a natural/exact sciences board?

>> No.5016274

>>5016254
Cellular Automaton and Neural Networks.

Reduce your grand vision about the brain and the human psyche to an analogous system of sensors, logic gates and motors. Everything is based on simple rules.

>> No.5016282

>>5016274
Further: if we decide to psychologize our behaviour and give certain aspects of it names like: happy, crappy, etc. We must be naturally inclined to do the same with the agents surrounding us. Is it weird that people think ants have feelings? Why shouldn't they? They are based on structures very similar to our nervous system etc. It doesn't make sense to think of us being very special in any sense.

>> No.5017331

bump for qualia thread

>> No.5018717

>>5016163
lol, OP here. I found this thread on my thread watcher, I thought it would have 404'd by now.

English is my first language, I just wanted to say "Do ants into feelings".

So, I'm going to burn/loot their homes, rape their women, and execute their elderly; and they wouldn't feel shit?

>> No.5018766 [DELETED] 

>>5018717
I made that post.
"Do ants into feelings" is not correct use of the English language.

>So, I'm going to burn/loot their homes, rape their women, and execute their elderly; and they wouldn't feel shit?
If you attack an ant nest, they will respond and attack the threat.

They do have feelings, it is just that they are not as complex as he feelings that Humans feel.

>> No.5018769 [DELETED] 
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5018769

>>5018766
it's a fucking meme, shithead!
of course he knows how to speak english you patronising cunt!
<<<

>> No.5018779

>>5018766
Oh, so it's like they perceive priorities differently, they wouldn't really care about their weak queen, but they would care if their home was under threat?
>>5018769
Ok man, calm down...

>> No.5018781

>>5018769
why are you always so angry EK? has it been a while since your last dicking? Don't worry, i'll be in europe soon and would gladly risk whatever diseases you're infested with if it means you calm down for a while.

>> No.5018782 [DELETED] 

>>5018769
It is a meme to speak english incorrectly on purpose?
In what way is that funny or interesting?
And you should not tell people to kill themselves, especially for having Psychological condition that is beyond their control, and especially considering that you yourself are not without flaws.

>> No.5018790 [DELETED] 

>>5018779
they defend the nest and the queen.
if a queen dies, they can make a new one, but they still fight to defend her.

>>5018781
fucking die, fuckhead imbecile!

>> No.5018792

>>5016067
Why would you do that?
I mean, you could, but why would you?
For an amusing dialogue on this topic, read the Ant Fugue chapter of 'Gödel, Escher, Bach'.

>> No.5018796

Like fish, they have no feelings.

>> No.5018798

>>5018792
I was hypothetically speaking.

>> No.5018799

>>5018790
>fucking die, fuckhead imbecile!
so that's a yes then?

>> No.5018807

>>5018781

I'm currently dicking EK, so you don't know what you're talking about.

>> No.5018816

>>5018807
although, i am actually pretty inadequate in bed. So that might not count.

>> No.5018826 [DELETED] 

>>5018799
no, thats a fuck you for implying i have VD!

>>5018807
you wish

>> No.5018832

>>5018826
Theres no need to try to hide it anymore. there's no shame in sleeping with the smartest person on /sci/.

>> No.5018844

So, could someone sort of... Summarize/conclude the whole ant thing in the simplest way possible (or just give a quick summary)?

>> No.5018846 [DELETED] 

>>5018844
Ants do have feelings, but they are not as complex as the feelings that Humans have.

>> No.5018849

>>5018846
Thanks.

>> No.5018850

>>5018846
How do you measure the "complexity" of feelings?

>> No.5018884 [DELETED] 

>>5018850
The amount of hormones that a species can reproduce, or the amount of sensory neurones, or perhaps even the number of brain cells, or how many different biochemical pathways that particular organism has.

>> No.5018937

>>5018790

>Rarely visit /sci/
>Almost always see EK being stupid, and being a cunt.

You must be very unsatisfied with your life EK.
>S