/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4990639]

Reddit is getting its jimmies rustled hard. Please enjoy:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ylhlc/iama_geneticist_who_studies_the_genetic_basis_for/

>IAMA geneticist who studies the genetic basis for racial differences in personality and culture.

[Anonymous No.4990644]

>What are your thoughts on things like this being the cause of lower IQ among black people?

In Africa, a 50% hereditary/50% environmental model appears most likely.
Studies like the Minnesota adoption study however indicate that genetic differences are likely to play a role.
In addition, black infants mature earlier than white infants. Certain skills are learned faster by black infant than white infants. This is odd, if something in the environment is a hamper to black achievements.
In addition to this there is the strange fact that black and white families deviate to different means.
There is also the fact that reaction times of East Asians are faster than among whites, whose reaction times are faster than among blacks. Reaction times are correlated with IQ. Brain volume is higher among Asians than among whites, whose brain volume is larger than in Africans, whose brain volume is larger than in Australian Aboriginals. This despite Asian people being smaller overall than white people. In addition, Australian Aboriginal IQ is lower than African American IQ, whose IQ is lower than Native American IQ, despite Native Americans living in greater poverty than African Americans.
Meanwhile, certain Australian Aboriginal and Alaskan native skills such as visual memory are far greater than among whites.
In conclusion, there appear to be significant differences between human races.

[Anonymous No.4990648]

"Scientists" are just like everyone: they don't want to be unpopular.
Consequently, unpopular but solid facts are seldom voiced and only come out in slips of the tongue. These faux-pas are inevitably followed by a profuse apology and a plea for forgiveness for one's lack of "judgement". This means we have a situation where peer pressure forces smart people to shirk even the obvious if it will make them fit in.
All of this is exacerbated by the intellectual revolution that began with the Frankfurt School's takeover of the American psychological movement, after which we moved from a reason-based to an emotion-based society.

[Anonymous No.4990654]

There exists at the moment a scientific consensus that differences in intelligence between individuals are largely caused by genetic differences. A recent meta-analysis puts the difference at about 85% genetic, and 15% environmental.
Hence, we can conclude that differences between individuals are largely the result of nature, as opposed to nurture. Nurture in Western society plays a minor role. Personality type differences between individuals are also at least partly genetic in origin.
Most of this is near universally accepted amongst geneticists, but politics unfortunately tend to influence science, and hence the environmental impact on personality and behaviour is often exaggerated in media portrayal of scientific findings, to confirm existing biases.
Hence as a geneticist, I would argue that an awful lot of money is spend on trying to raise the achievements of a minority of intellectually disadvantaged children who are unlikely to see vast improvement in their academic success. This is not just a waste of limited resources, but it also puts an awful amount of stress on parents, teachers and children alike.
Now, in regards to racist beliefs. As a society we are not yet ready for studies into the plethora of genetic differences that exist between different races, because the political climate would threaten the lives and careers of scientists.

[Anonymous No.4990651]

holy shit. the argument seems to be that races are genetically equal becasue:
>genes arnt the only influence on a person
>the genes do nothing practical
>it would cause discrimination

whether or not this research is legit aside. reddit cant into science for shit.

[Anonymous No.4990661]

>Race is a social construct to the extent that our understandings of it come from social interaction. Saying that race is socially constructed isn't necessarily a statement that race doesn't exist independently, just that -- whether it is "real" or not -- it is understood through social processes. Race can be a useful correlate in medical research and still be socially constructed; it isn't a dichotomous thing.

There is no hope for these morons. Egalitarianist fuckwits will only understand they're wrong when their "comrade" has the gun planted on their head. Useful idiots eventually outlive their usefulness.

[Anonymous No.4990663]

>>4990654
>>4990654
>because the political climate would threaten the lives and careers of scientists
people who do animal testing for drugs and medical procedures get death threats, both them and for their children, then have to live with the fact that their labs and homes can get fire bombed and the have to stand violent protests. what why the fuck are geneticists such pussies?

[Anonymous No.4990665]

>Believe in evolution
>Everyone on earth is exactly the same even though some groups have been largely isolated from others for thousands of years

Reddit logic

[Anonymous No.4990667]

so how long until this whole white guilt thing is over? its getting kind of annoying now.

[Anonymous No.4990668]

Loehlin et al. (1973) and Scarr et al. (1977)... There were no correlations between IQ and "amount" of negroid or caucasian genes in phenotypical white people... so they are not genetically inferior in regards to intelligence...

Could you all now stop voicing your uneducated OPINIONS and start living in the real world, where DATA and EVIDENCE are used?

Wasting my time again...

[Anonymous No.4990669]

>>4990663
By "animal rights" are you talking about niggers or real animals that deserve our sympathy?

[Anonymous No.4990672]

>>4990668

Stop reading at the failed use of the Harvard Referencing system.

[Anonymous No.4990675]

>>4990668
who the flying FUCK is talking about intelligence? only you.

[Anonymous No.4990677]

>>4990668
lol, you do know there's been more and better research done since the 1970's, right?

Try looking outside of places that will confirm your existing bias.

[Anonymous No.4990678]

>>4990672

Your loss. I copy-pasted from my professor's presentation on differential psychology.
Unlike you, I actually have some expertise on the matter. Now kindly fuck off back into your troll cave.

[Anonymous No.4990681]

>>4990675

Well this fine gentleman >>4990644
certainly is...

>>4990677

If you're going to throw around the bias-bat, catch it yourself first.

[Anonymous No.4990682]

There are two camps in the Race-Intelligence-Debate. Those who claim that there are massive genetically caused differences and those who claim that there are no differences at all. Of course, both extremes are completely wrong.

Either way it makes little sense to debate that issue as long as people think like Sith.

[Anonymous No.4990686]

>>4990681
>>4990678

>avatarfags

[Anonymous No.4990687]

even artists live in the world of racial reality. pic related.

scientists: captured by jew science of the frankfurt school since the 70's. Give up your faith in the PC religion and join the light, scientists.

[Anonymous No.4990688]

My god, people are actually allowed to do research on this now?

A professor in the UK got suspended very recently for saying that races were different.

I guess this research has always been going on, you just have to brush it under the rug in public.

[Anonymous No.4990690]

>>4990677

Also, your chart is merely showing the correlation of phenotype and crime rate.... not genes and crime rate.
The correlation could simply be the result of social exclusion or the like.

Show me a replication study of the ones I cited earlier and then you would have some evidence. Until then, check what your study is actually measuring (that's called validity) or stop bitching around.

[Anonymous No.4990715]

Earlier a faggot claiming to be Neil deGrasse Tyson pretended to read books. Reddit promptly shat themselves and posted it everywhere
http://www.openculture.com/2011/12/neil_degrasse_tyson_8_books_every_intelligent_person_should_read..
html

[Archivist !!oPmCTJV1KrV No.4990721]

>>4990715
>The Art of War by Sun Tsu (eBook – Audio Book) - “to learn that the act of killing fellow humans can be raised to an art.”
>Entire book discusses strategies such as enlisting the enemy and leading an army with as little bloodshed as possible
My sides are approaching UDFy-38185539

[Anonymous No.4990750]

>>4990690
We already have genetic explanations for why blacks are more violent than other races.

For example - At one end of the androgen receptor gene, which is alternatively labeled AR or NR3C4, there are varying amounts of the trinucleotide repeats CAG and GGC. Blacks possess less of these CAG repeats.

Fewer CAG repeats causes increased transactivation of the receptor (meaning that the receptor became more activated to increase gene expression), see the research here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8065934

Cortisol responses are another area that highlight racial differences in behavior. a new study by Way and Taylor has found that the short allele of 5-HTTLPR causes increased cortisol responses to a perceived social threat provided by the Trier Social Stress Test.

http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/bps/article/PIIS0006322309012724/abstract

Also, a new study by Armbruster et al found that the 7R allele of DRD4 causes lower cortisol responses and that this allele interacted with the long allele of 5-HTTLPR to lower cortisol response to social stress.

http://www.citeulike.org/group/6880/article/6445652

Beaver et al determined that African-Americans have significantly more 7R alleles than whites. The possibility that low cortisol levels in African Americans could be partly genetic has important implications for research on the genetics of violence.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1913922/pdf/1744-9081-3-30.pdf

[Anonymous No.4990753]

>>4990690
[cont.]
Indeed, in 2008 Rajender et al determined that male control subjects average 21.19 repeats, rapists average 18.44 repeats, murderers average 17.59 repeats, and men who murder after they finish raping average 17.31 repeats.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/50x2125530hku64l/fulltext.pdf?page=1

The shortest repeat lengths are associated with a higher degree of violence, earlier criminal records, verbal aggression, assertive personalities, extraversion, neuroticism, and self-transcendence (mystical tendencies).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19448851

Sjoberg et al proved that higher testosterone levels increased aggressive tendencies in males with the 3R allele that is the most common MAOA allele in black people but did not increase aggression in males with the 4R allele that is the most common MAOA allele in whites.

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v33/n2/pdf/1301417a.pdf

To summarize, African Americans have fewer CAG repeats in the androgen receptor gene, which somehow increases testosterone spikes. Higher testosterone decreases MAOA enzyme levels in those with the 3-repeat allele. Plus, androgen receptor alleles with fewer CAG repeats beget more androgen receptor activity. These receptors translocate to the cell nucleus and down-regulate the MAOA gene. African Americans likely have a significant genetic component to their lower baseline cortisol levels and lower cortisol spikes in response to threats. This further allows higher testosterone levels and decreases MAOA levels directly.

Also pic related, we don't need to identify specific genes to say that the vast differences in FST and genetic clustering are the reasons why blacks are less intelligent/more violent.

[Anonymous No.4990756]

>>4990668

Those studies are inconclusive at best.

See:

http://abc102.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/race-genes-intelligence-part-2/

>One of the problems with using blood group indexes as proxies for individual ancestry is that blood groups assort independently from other traits. This is why the authors of the Loehlin study note that: “this result may not, however, be a very strong test of the genetic basis of the between-group IQ difference, because of independent assortment of blood group and ability genes over a number of generations among U.S. Negroes.”

Studies using modern methods of determining admixture would be more convincing.

[Anonymous No.4990771]

>>4990648
Don't want to ruin the joke, but the reason the nigger is separated is because he's wearing an Auburn University shirt in Tuscaloosa, home of Alabama University. Alabama/Auburn is the bitterest rivalry in college football.

[Anonymous No.4990774]

>>4990678
>>4990681
>>4990668
Oh, I get it. You're avatarfagging as Crane, because he's crazy. Like Egalitarians.

[Anonymous No.4990776]

>>4990690

and phenotype is correlated with...? Oh yeah, genotype.

[Anonymous No.4990780]

>>4990639
according to reddit we should be able to turn a black guy into a white guy by making sure he is in the right environment. So /sci/ how to we set up environments that turns people white?

[Anonymous No.4990784]

>>4990780 how to we set up environments that turns people white?
Raise them to appreciate education, knowledge, intelligence instead of rape, drugs, violence.

[Anonymous No.4990793]

>>4990780

First you have to define exactly what "white" entails.

[Anonymous No.4990795]

>>4990784
Doesn't work, see transracial adoption studies and black crime rates compared to whites even in middle class neighborhoods.

I'm about to go to bed now, but if I wake up and this thread is still here, I've got a pretty large collection of studies and US DOJ statistics that are pretty illuminating.

Blacks commit more crime than whites in all economic classes. Poor Whites, middle class Whites, and rich Whites all have drastically lower crime rates than their negro counterparts.

[Anonymous No.4990819]

Did the OP delete his initial post? Why?

[Anonymous No.4990827]

the butt frustration is over 9000, the liberals shoved their foots so far in their mouth they can't get it out and resort to contentious character assassination, at least the few who didn't rage in fury and close their browsers.

[Anonymous No.4990832]

>But only environment matters!

Wrong.

[Anonymous No.4990853]

>>4990687
Spanishfag here.
On northern Spain, green eyed people is somewhat common. I'd say all of my college friends (including myself) have some degree of greenish iris, with one having it completely green. My grandmother had green eyes too.
On the other hand, most of my friends outside college have completely brown eyes.

Id say that green iris comes from blue+brown mixture, and thats why theres so much variation inside the "green scale". Considering that the nobility in Middle Ages came from northen europe and was represented in art as blonde, blue eyed people. As we all know, every aristocrat has had many whoresons (not to mention the german presence in the Civil War) which added those genes to the original (roman+iberic) genepool.

Southern Spain is more of the "classical" spanish guy with brown eyes, black hair. It also registers the most gypsies and got the most mixing between arabic and original races. Unsurprisingly, it has the highest unemployement rate (some zones get to the 50%).

[Anonymous No.4990871]

>>4990853
Northern Spain was Gaul, so it makes sense that there are White Europeans in the north.

[None !!qdvBtKFtNy6 No.4990891]

>>4990721

Art of war was a shitty book anyway.

Real leaders read case studies, not some random faggot's generalizations of pre-siege-warfare.

[Anonymous No.4990900]

And what about epigenetics?

I mean, can it change completely the behaviour and intelligence of someone or the impact is limited?

[Anonymous No.4990928]

>>4990667
>over

hahaha

[Anonymous No.4990935]

>>4990900
well its been confirmed in multiple studies high pesticide exposure can switch epigentic genes that can make offspring autistic for up to 5 generations in monkeys and primates.. so yeah it can do a substantial damage. that doesn't necessarily mean it can be undone though, sometimes the damage is nearly permanent, other times its easily reversible based on environmental stimuli

[Anonymous No.4990936]

>>4990795
You cannot perform blind studies since skin color is highly visible. Most societies have clear roles for Men, Women, Blacks, Whites...yes, you can exchange the parents, but you are still stuck with the same society. In order to let the child grow up somewhat undisturbed by these roles, you would have to find an environment that is entirely postracist, postsexist, postwhateverist.

Such a society does not exist yet anywhere on this planet, but some fields are so non-mainstream that no one cares about your biological attributes, since the roles do not apply anyway. For example, there are no stereotypes for astrophysicists because most of society does not care about creating according images. Ask an average person how he imagines the typical astrophysicist. I cannot even tell whether he is close because I have no idea myself how the typical astrophysicist looks!

Neil Tyson himself once mentioned that when he was invited to talk about a space issue on TV for the first time and later watched the recording, it was the first time he saw a Black Man being interviewed on Television for some other reason than being Black: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPf03T8YN-4 .


By the way, I find the differences between nations much more massive than between races. But of course both are tied to culture. We have cultural values on the national level, we have cultural values on the racial level, we have cultural values on the socioeconomic level, we have cultural values on the political affiliation level...and they all contribute to how important education is considered by a certain individual.

[Anonymous No.4990940]

>>4990935
forgot to mention these studies confirmed the dna was not damaged in anyway by the pesticides and confirmed the switch was epigenetic

[Anonymous No.4990941]

i think it's about 50-50 between environment and genetics. i didn't know this was so controversial

[Anonymous No.4990948]

>>4990936
but you postulate the egg or chicken hypothesis, and jump to a predetermined conclusion without sufficient basis. Was it the cultures/nation that affect the people. Or is it the people that make the culture nation? Or both

[Anonymous No.4990955]

I want /pol/ to leave.

[Anonymous No.4990971]

>>4990955
>post science in a science board

>the science posted doesn't agree with your preferred world view

>attack and demand that reality reflect your desires

[Anonymous No.4990974]

>>4990941
> i didn't know this was so controversial
Basically the only people allowed to be mainstream are ones who say that it's 100% environment.

Universities are doing everything they can to stamp out the idea that race even exists. We've got an entire generation of biologists who have been educated on nothing but extremely politicized syllabuses.

[Anonymous No.4990980]

>>4990971
I don't care much for /pol/'s pseudo-science.

[Anonymous No.4990981]

>>4990980
Then why don't you attack some of the studies and information in this thread?

Instead of looking at the science and discrediting it, you simply think that anything that you don't agree with is "pseudo-science". You're like a christfag, your religion is egalitarianism.

[Anonymous No.4990987]

>>4990948
Both. People are educated (or brainwashed, if you wish) with certain values, and when they grow up they usually perpetuate these values with comparitively minor changes. It pretty much works like biological evolution: Different environments and incidents favor different attributes, which in turn limit the possible mutations that can compete for adaption.

Of course, cultural evolution has an additional aspect that greatly intensifies developments: Emigration. If you create certain conditions, you will *attract* people who appreciate those conditions. That does not necessarily has to be an advantage: If your society gets flooded by uneducated thugs because they envy your wealth, you have serious problems. But often it is a positive influence: If a society values science, it will attract people who value science as well, thereby further increasing the support for science.

So it is little surprising that you end up with extreme contrasts, be it in politics, relationships or whatever.

[Anonymous No.4990990]

>>4990981
Because i've argued against it a fucking thousand times before, and no one will ever change their opinion.
If you want someone to refute this bollocks look at the replies in the reddit thread.

[None !!qdvBtKFtNy6 No.4990991]

Does anyone actually give a shit?

[Anonymous No.4991013]

>People call him a white supremacist
>He mentions multiple times studies that are looking into what genes cause asians to have higher IQ than whites and blacks
How do these people breath>

[Anonymous No.4991029]

>>4991013
Chomsky reminds them to inhale and Maher reminds them to exhale.

[Anonymous No.4991064]

So many claims, no links to study.

If there's a scientific consensus that Genes have a greater effect on a person than nature, then post it. This claim sounds rediculous, and I refuse to believe it until I see it.

Also, just because something is a scientific consensus doesn't make it sound. There was once a scientific consensus that the average temperature of Earth was rising and would keep rising...until facts exposed that it was cooling.

It's your job to make your argument as sound as possible, not mine.

[Anonymous No.4991069]

>>4991064
subtle

[Anonymous No.4991070]

>>4990971

>liberals summed up

[Anonymous No.4991163]

lol at the stormfags that continue to samefag this thread. Until you can provide evidence for your claim you should just stop posting.

[Anonymous No.4991177]

>>4990774
Egalitarianism is the equal treatment of all people, not believing everyone is the same. That's a form of stupidity reserved for reddfags and Tumblrkids

[Anonymous No.4991201]

Just because someone did a study about it doesn't mean its not flawed as hell.

[Anonymous No.4991206]

>>4991070
Summed up your butthole.

[Anonymous No.4991214]

>>4991064
>>4991064
>no links to study.
so you are just going to ignore the posts that actually linked to articles? grow the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.4991287]

Program from Norwegian TV

Both race deniers and race believers are interviewed and their views are matched against one another

Subjects covered: Reality of Race, Racial IQ Differences

>Brainwash 6:7 - Race (part 1/3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0Fx6gpl2g

[Anonymous No.4991716]

>>4991287 Both race deniers and race believers are interviewed and their views are matched against one another

That is what I meant when I wrote "There are two camps in the Race-Intelligence-Debate. Those who claim that there are massive genetically caused differences and those who claim that there are no differences at all. Of course, both extremes are completely wrong."

A smart Racist will *always* win against the claim that there were no differences between ethnic groups. Not because he is right with all his beliefs, but because that claim is utterly stupid to begin with. Fanatical Anti-Racists are no match; refuting them does not prove anything.

I once visited a quite open-minded religious group where they also talked about Atheism. How did they do that? By discussing the movie "Zeitgeist". In retrospect, I should have stood up five seconds into the talk and said "Go ahead if you want, but be aware that you are merely refuting a piece of crap instead of debating challenging positions."

[Anonymous No.4991736]

Really this whole debate is opposite of what it should be, those who proclaim that race and intelligence aren't linked are the ones who need to be proveing it.

The default posistion should be that they are linked and blacks are less intelligent because it is both the obvious and convienient thing to do.

It's up to blacks to demonstrate they are equal, it's not up to the white population to bring equality and in fact it is self detrimental to do so.