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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4981837 No.4981837 [Reply] [Original]

How come I'm here being me, and you're over there being you?

>> No.4984348

Bumping.

>> No.4984368

We have separate brains.

>> No.4984377

If we understood how our brains resulted in cognition, we would be building AI right now.

>> No.4984381

>>4984368

>> No.4984383

>>4984368
Yes but why did I end up as me rather than you?

>> No.4984385

If you ctrl+c and ctrl+v yourself in real life, you would be asking the same question. How come you feel yourself, and see your copy as somebody else?

>> No.4984388

>>4984383
You didn't "end up" as you. You began existing.

>> No.4984418

>>4984377

But artificial intelligence exists already
And no, im not talking about an awesome japanese robot or shit like that

>> No.4984425

>>4981837
Is philosophy science?

>> No.4984432

>>4984418
What are you talking about then?

>> No.4984444

A long line of preceding causes.

Basically, chance.

>> No.4984448

>>4984432

Im talking about a simple computer program, thats AI

>> No.4984451

>>4984448
Not sentient.

>> No.4984462
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4984462

This question is so fucking stupid.

So goddamn fucking stupid, that I have to assume that any jackass who asks it is a fucking troll.

>Mfw people think this is even a remotely intelligent question

>> No.4984464

>>4984451
define "sentient"

>> No.4984466
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4984466

>>4984388
So we we're born at different locations at different times and consequently made of different matter, yes, but how am I conscious in this specific body? What makes any of us, us?

>>4984425
No but it isn't /lit/ or /x/ either.

>>4984462
Screw yourself.

>> No.4984468

>>4984466

You can't into brains can you?

>> No.4984469

>>4984464
Define "google"

>> No.4984470
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4984470

>>4984468
I can't into consciousness.

>> No.4984472

>>4984466
>What makes any of us, us?
Our brains. You are fucking over thinking this.

>> No.4984476

>>4984469
AI can be "sentient" based on definition by google which is "Able to perceive or feel things"

Look up artificial life

>> No.4984479

>>4984476
No. Not yet anyway.

>> No.4984483

>>4984476

AI CAN be sentient, we haven't achieved this yet. And we wont until we better understand the emergent properties of "consciousness"

>> No.4984485

>>4984470

Consciousness has nothing to do with this question.

You are you and not me because you have a seperate brain, with a distinct neural structure that is a result of the experiences you have been through.

>> No.4984488

>>4984483
>>4984479
Critters inside artificial life can feel pain, pleasure, respond to stimuli, mate, attack, eat all in an artificial environment. All this is not preprogrammed, but evolved over a lot of generations which is what makes it amazing. So yeah, they are essentially sentient.

>> No.4984494

>>4984488

No, they are not.... The fuck are you talking about?

What critters are you talking about? We do not have sentient AI...

>> No.4984499

>>4984485
yes yes, but its irrelevant to the ops question. I'm afraid no one will be able to answer ops question because there is no known answer, and it will remain one of the greatest philosophical questions.

He knows that he is him becasue of his brain, that isnt the concern, the concern is why is he experiencing life form 'his' brain as opposed to yours. What cosmic force planted his experience into that brain. Obviously this can;t happen. There is nothing to plant you at a time or place. Tod decide when you will exist. this philosophically leaves us with only one real conclusion. We are apart of the same consciousnesses. Despite its physical separations. Our individuality is only an illusion of time space and communication.

>> No.4984496
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4984496

>>4984488

>> No.4984503

>>4984499
You're getting into Epistemology now.

>> No.4984512

>>4984485
Yes it does. I ask, how am I conscious with this brain?

>> No.4984514
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4984514

>>4984499

So retarded lol.

You actually believe this is a serious philosophical question?

Like I said before, I have to assume you are a troll or just really ignorant of how a brain works.

>Herp derp, why don't I experience other people's brains.
>Mfw this these threads.

>> No.4984516

>>4984494
Look up google's project Polyworld, and other artificial life projects out there. You basically create an environment and put a bunch of life forms (critters) in there. Critter behavior is controlled by a neural network. In the beginning they are random and retarded, but the more you run the simulation, the smarter they become. Their goal is essentially to reproduce and survive as efficiently as possible. So the more you run it, the more complex they become. Its true that current artificial life simulations are nothing but a bunch of circles and polygons eating eachother, but i wonder what they could achieve if they consider making them multi cell organisms.

>> No.4984517

>>4984512

Your consciousness is an emergent property of your brain.

Your asking why you don't experience everyone else's conciousness, and its simply a retarded question.

Because you don't have there brains.

>> No.4984534

>>4984516

The resulting complexity is not a sign of a sentient being.

The ability to respond to stimuli does not mean that it is sentient.

The programs "evolve" according to the original conditions of the neural network and there programming.

That is not sentient.

>> No.4984539

>>4984517
You're acting like that answers the question.

>> No.4984547

>>4984516
By that logic, F.E.A.R's AI is sentient, along with most modern game AI's

>> No.4984549

>>4984534
original conditions doesn't matter here, because they still evolve in order to better survive and reproduce.

"Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive, or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences."

Give the critters a really complex environment, complex body structure, more hidden neurons, and they will evolve to be social and help one another because it will benefit them to survive.

>> No.4984551

>>4984514
A question that cannot be answered is worthwhile to ask.

>> No.4984555

>>4984539

Your acting like it doesn't.

>Hey gais, how come when I move my arm, every other person in the world doesn't move there arm?

>> No.4984554

>>4984534
Isn't that exactly what life does, but with randomness? Also >Implying that consciousness exists and that everything isn't just a stimuli chain reaction.

>> No.4984558

>>4984547
F.E.A.R. AI just follows predetermined points of interest, paths, it is preprogrammed and scripted. They are just executing a program that can never change or learn.

>> No.4984562

>>4984554

Real biological life has an innumerable amount of variables between themselves and there environment. These computer programs are dumbed down virtualizations of life.

>> No.4984567

>>4984555
I'm not acting like it. It just doesn't.
>how does my brain make me me?
>you are you because you have a brain.

>> No.4984571

>>4984562
>innumerable

No. Theres an art to how a lot of people act, psychology/neurology. Sure, one's not SCIENCE, but its pretty fucking accurate.

>> No.4984572

>>4984549

Your saying that if we could model the complexities of life virtually, then we could have a sentient being.

Obviously. Problem is we can not model all of the variables of life on a computer right now. And we are just baby steps into understanding the emergent property of consciousness.

>> No.4984578

>>4984567
No, you are you because you ARE your brain. Yes, I used to wish that I could be reborn as a little girl or animal like you did when I was 10 years old, but then I actually started to think.

>> No.4984582

>>4984578
Non sequitur harder.

>> No.4984585

>>4984572
It doesn't have to be OUR environment, the way we see it in real life. Life and consciousness can exist in other environments that could not exist in our universe. Like in 2D.

>> No.4984595

>>4984585

>Life and consciousness can exist in an envrioment that doesn't exist in our universe.

ou say this like you know this, I'm sure you have sauce as well.

>> No.4984596

>>4984582
The fuck are you trying to say? That you AREN'T your brain? Sorry, but you are.

>> No.4984599

>>4984595

Environment*
You*

>> No.4984603

>>4984582
Non sequitor my ass. You are you, your consciousness is your ability to perceive things due to the fact that you have a brain. So because you have a brain, you have your point of view. Because you have your point of view, you are only you and no one else, and you feel the nerves that are connected to your body which are in turn connected to your brain which is the control center of your being. The pattern of electrical discharging in your head and form of thinking are emergent properties of the physical state of your neurons and other brain connections which are brought upon by the code that your DNA used to make you.

>> No.4984628

>>4984622
*how

>> No.4984622

>>4984582
If you aren't your brain, explain brain damage affects consciousness.

>> No.4984623

>>4984596
Yeah I'm implying that. I don't believe that it's strictly the brain's existence that makes us conscious because for the brain to exist and make us conscious the way it does, the universe must first exist the way it does.

>>4984603
>You are you, your consciousness is your ability to perceive things due to the fact that you have a brain.
>So because you have a brain, you have your point of view.
>Non sequitor my ass

>> No.4984632

>>4984623
>the universe must first exist the way it does.
It does exist the way it does. What the shit are you on about

>> No.4984629

>>4984603
yes another non-sequiter. But that isn't the question. the question is why the dna made you, and your friends dna made him. And not vice versa. You can sit here and repeat yourself all day long, but you are not addressing the question. You are addressing the how, not the why. We are all aware of the how, please stop repeating it.

>> No.4984637

>>4984623
Are you upset because logic works? You must be schizophrenic, or have some other type of mental problem, not even laymen are this stupid.

>> No.4984638

>>4984622
And don't give me that bullshit about the brain being a "conduit" or some retard shit like that

>> No.4984640

>>4984629
There is no "why". Why is a meaningless question in this context.

>> No.4984651

>>4984629
>We are all aware of the how, please stop repeating it.

Why does the universe exist instead of not existing? Why are the laws of physics the way they are instead of something else?

>> No.4984652

>>4984623
> because for the brain to exist and make us conscious the way it does, the universe must first exist the way it does.

What the fuck does this even mean, I don't get it. Thats a sentence fragment.

>>4984629
Fuck you and your semantics, DNA doesn't need a why, it just does. If you really need a "Why?", its because chemistry and chemicals exist and they react to things.

>> No.4984662

>>4984632
>>4984652
For us to be conscious, we need a brain. The brain makes us conscious because physics and the existence of the universe as an iterative process allow for the brain and subsequent mind to coalesce.

>> No.4984671
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4984671

>>4984629

Your stupidity is unparalleled.

>> No.4984677 [DELETED] 

>>4984671
Yeah I don't like this anon trying to argue for me that much anymore.

>> No.4984682
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4984682

>>4984623


>For the brain to exist and produce consciousness the way it does, the universe must first exist the way it does

And all of my what...

>> No.4985888

>>4984476
This definition refers to qualia, not simply taking action in response to a stimulus. Until a program can experience qualia, it is not AI

>> No.4985902

The fact that this has over 50 replies sickens me.

>> No.4985934

>>4985888
From what i've gathered online, "qualia" isn't that well defined, also how would you prove that certain organism is "sentient" in real life?

>> No.4985945

>>4985902
I hope it does, narcissist.

>> No.4985960

>>4984682
But that's right.

>> No.4985966

You are me and I am you but we just aren't aware of it yet.

>> No.4985977

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU4lYcN6zEY

>> No.4986037

The only answer that I think makes any sense is that you are not you. A point of view, consciousness, is necessarily linked to a physical being, and there is nothing else that distinguishes one point of view from another. That is to say, in fact you also see life out of my head, but your head doesn't get to know about it. Your observations are different from mine, obviously, but the observer is the same.

>> No.4986052

>>4981837
A pretty good question, OP. I hope you didn't expect anything useful from the teen-angst-summer-edition-/sci/, though.

The only thing interesting said here was this:
>>4984385

And some physicalists would argue that this is a false statement. They'll tell you that the copy "is" the original, somehow. I never got where they were coming from with that one, though.

>> No.4986053

We do not know yet, OP.

>> No.4986054

Because you're not living in a solipsist universe? All the evidence suggests the other fleshbags we inhabit our universe with are like us and probably sapient also.

>> No.4986067

>>4984466
There is no consciousness. We are beings who are defined mainly by our memories. What we call consciousness is the simple fact that we know that we are aware that we exist and can feel, etc which are all thanks to our brain.