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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4961647 No.4961647[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

/sci/ do you understand in the study of peak oil and gas?
The limits of growth?

What are we going to do other than dying and losing large portions of our knowledge? Please, enlightened me, maybe with something different than cold fusion or thorium fission.

>> No.4961651

we have bacteria that can directly turn sugars into diesel, who the fuck needs oil?

>> No.4961654

>>4961651
>bacteria that can directly turn sugars into diesel
what

>> No.4961659

>>4961654
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/417263/bacteria-make-diesel-from-biomass/
they already have 3 pilot plants running.

>> No.4961660

We can use heat and pressure to turn trees into oil.

only takes a couple hours to do what took mother nature a million years

>> No.4961663

Nuclear Power + Space-Based Solar = Energy Problems Solved
Or... if you're feeling like a hopeless pessimist.
Blah + blah = WORLD IS GOING TO END! OMG MAYBE AN APOCALYPSE WILL GIVE MEANING TO MY VACUOUS LIFE!

>> No.4961667

>>4961660
Sweet so what do we do after we turn all the trees into oil? Cause ya'know, when the oil runs out from that, we also have no trees left.

>Implying that doesn't effectively double CO2 emissions because you have a lack of foilage to absorb it
>cannot into renewable energy

>> No.4961675

>>4961667
if only we had some kind of way to take all the CO2 in the air and somehow use some sort of biological structure to turn it into cellulose which we can make sugar from. that would solve everything! maybe the people who made the bacteria can make something like that in the future.

>> No.4961681

Really? Nobody understands growth?
I thought this was /sci/

The way humanity grows today with this hilarious monetary system is just asking for a collapse, but not like in a epic dramatic movie, it's just going to be a incredibly unpleasant time till enough people have died.

>> No.4961687

>>4961681
>inb4 venus project stupidity

>> No.4961691

>>4961660
What is the net energy gain of the process?
Is there enough fresh water and topsoil to grow the required wood?
What is the environmental impact? Ok lets not talk about this shit but seriously, is it possible to replace conventional drilling with this?

>> No.4961694

>>4961687
>inb4 denial
wait, shit

>> No.4961696

Burning biofuel can actually reduce net increase in CO2 if it's done sustainably, i.e. you don't just cut fucking everything down and turn it into fuel. As long as new plants are planted, the CO2 goes back into growing things for more fuel

>> No.4961701
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4961701

>mfw i got banned for posting pretty much this exact same topic on /sci/

>> No.4961711

i forgot about this, its also a good way to take CO2 directly out of the atmosphere.
>http://www.fastcompany.com/1744537/engineered-bacteria-can-convert-sunlight-co2-diesel-fuel
>the new process can make 15 thousand gallons of diesel per acre annually,

you will need 100 million acres to completely replace oil. that's not even the size of France.

>> No.4961747

>>4961696
link? ive read reports for both sides

>> No.4961760

>>4961747
http://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=Biofuel_Cell

>> No.4961775
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4961775

>>4961760

>> No.4961776

>>4961696
Planting crops to produce ethanol to serve the US demand in 2020 would take up twice as much land as is currently used to grow food. We can either have a shortage in Fuel or in Food or a bit of both but we will not be able to meet our demand and people will have to get along with less.

>> No.4961790

>>4961776
Crop ethanol at least isn't the answer, since farm equipment uses more fuel than farming biofuels creates. It's the new technology like magic bacteria and crystal alcohol-producing rods that might help us.

>> No.4961795

>>4961790
>isAfaggot

>> No.4961802

>>4961795
Well fuck you

>> No.4961821
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4961821

Algae.

My question is, when is peak oil? Some say it happened in the '70s, others insist it happened recently or will happen soon. I've also heard that it's a 'myth' to justify gouging prices.

Part of me thinks that raising gas prices to obscene amounts would be a good idea, as long as there's free public transit
>Only rich people with their own vehicles
>Less car accidents
>More buses
>Less pollution
>Wars waged for reasons other than oil, like DA ILLUMINATI

>> No.4961824

>>4961675

>Turn CO2 into sugar
I want to believe that there's something more pragmatic we could do with it.

>> No.4961826

>>4961821
>More public transportation
>Wanting to copy Japan
Weaboo faggot.

>> No.4961835

>thorium fission
Thorium fission is pretty damn good!

>> No.4961850

>>4961821

Alot of Peak Oil people like to paint a Mad Max scenerio where everyone is fighting for the last barrels of oil. In reality, oil use will decline as we use it more efficiently and replace its use with other sources (algae, electric, natural gas). It will be pretty mundane transition.

>> No.4961866

>>4961821
The reason you are getting a lot of different answers is pretty simple. Oil production in the US reached a peak in the 70's. People are predicting a peak in global oil production in the near future.

However, new discoveries are still being made in large quantities. In addition, there is a lot of oil and natural gas that was uneconomical to extract in the past (shale oil, tar sands oil, etc.) that might be economical to extract in the future.

Until the sources of energy being discussed in this thread are cheaper than petroleum based fuels, or there is a broad political consensus to switch, we will be stuck with oil.

>> No.4961873

As someone actually in the field and attended ASPO conferences in the past, feel free to ask questions, OP.

>> No.4961895

>we have bacteria that can directly turn sugars into diesel, who the fuck needs oil?

and we also have machines and lands that can turn oil into sugar, surely by thermodynamics, we can only win!!!

>> No.4961916

>>4961866
>implying support for fracking

>> No.4961961

>>4961873
OP here, I was at ASPO 2012 in Vienna, I don't know if it was very different from other aspo meetings.

To me it seemed like most of the people agree that it doesn't matter when the global oil and natural gas production peak will be reached, they know that the discovered reserves already peaked and that it takes some time to produce until the peak of each individual well is reached.

No matter what happens, the transition to a patchwork of renewables and more nuclear power plants takes much time (lets say 20 years) and energy (which would also have to be from fossil fuels), it's not going to work out during a financial crisis or a world war. Thats what they said. It's not very likely that a rapid transition can take place when we start to run out of energy and need it. He have to do it now.

They even thought about how it would be possible to make the general public aware of this problem. Maybe put a video on youtube with cute little cats in every graph, someone made this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umBRR2gi4xY
I managed to finally convince my patents with this, my mother was incredibly ignorant. she works for Royal Dutch Shell but still did not know shit, thought that gas to liquid would solve all problems, what a joke.

>> No.4962081

>>4961961

Great video, OP.

So do you think that a lot of people need to die? Is that the only way? Or sterilization,etc.?

>> No.4962122

>>4961961

Not having oil doesn't mean we won't be able to generate electricity. Other fuels are used to make electricity so putting in a nuclear plant won't lower oil consumption unless there is a step change in battery technology for cars.

What can realistically happen with current technology is a switch to natural gas powered cars or conversion of natural gas or coal to automotive fuel.

I just wish more people would take time to study the economics or technology of energy production. Would cull a lot of idiots on both sides of the argument.

>> No.4962128

>>4962122
>not knowing that good batteries for electric cars can go hundreds of miles
>not acknowleging potential for electric refill station infrastructure that would allow cheaper lower-range (distance) cars to work wherever there are electric stations nearby, and that trains could be built for people who don't want the expensive high-range models of cars for long trips

>> No.4962183

We already passed peak oil. The explosion(lol) of natural gas extraction is helping to offset that, however. Peak oil is old and uncool, the new hotness is soaring copper prices.

>> No.4962186

>>4962081
It really depends on many things, but I think all optimism should be left behind so we won't surprised if things go wrong. I think many people are going to die, water and food shortages will cause most deaths, and hungry people won't just lay down and die, they do whatever it takes to survive so the will be violence too. The US could probably be badass enough to just shut the gates to mexico and kill everybodys who tries to enter, in Europe however this is not going to work.

I live in Austria, Vienna and we have very much hydro power and clean water because we have the mountains with glaciers nearby, not because we are better in any way, there are still many people who think Austria is just a great and superior country but what did they contribute? Not really a thing. And we will have to share our energy and water with refugees, if the goverment can't come up with rules like every 10th quare meter of your place means another refugee for you to support, there will be violence. We have crazy people here in Austria and our police and army forces are not ready for this shit, it's the first world people who will suffer the most under this changes. I can already see myself in a fucked up world when im an old man, I am not going to have children and make them live in this world. The chances that something like this is going to happen are simply to big.

HOWEVER, future trouble could be reduced today, if only more people would understand.
Imagine a species that overshoots, realizes it and than stops breeding and the problem gets fixed by itself peacefully, that would be some real intelligent move, sure reality is far more complex, who is taking care of all the old people and so on, but still I would be a great achievement.

>> No.4962199

We'll just go with a Hydrogen economy because Hydrogen is the most abundant thing ever XD
But seriously, hydrogen is a awful idea. I've just got to keep hoping to myself that people don't keep opposing stuff for reasons of ignorance, nationalism and usual fear of change rubbish. Examples in point, people that show angst against Nuclear power, electric cars and LED lighting are normally the people that opposed the computer as well

>> No.4962200

PLEASE OPEN JANITORSPOTS

>> No.4962213

>>4962122
I did not think about it very much but I believe it is possible to create compressed Hydrogen with energy from, say a nuclear power plant, it's a energy loss but you end up with a fuel that has a very good energy density. Cars can operate with Hydrogen, there is no CO2 exhaust, just water vapor we could even fly with this unlike with natural gas or coal.

However people do not like Nuclear, it's expensive and dangerous and what about the waste? There is not a single nuclear plant operating in my country and the people will need a kick in the ass before they are ready to have a few of them built, to bad it will be too late then, it takes a very long time to build and connect a nuclear plant to the net, I think 5 years or so. It just requires many things that will be scarce at the time, energy, materials, staff, knowledge, money and all that.

>> No.4962225

>>4961687
>>4961687

Sorry, I don't find any stupidity involved in basing what we do on what we have, not just burning it all for the sport of 'business'.

>> No.4962254

>>4962081
I also suggest to watch the documentary
"The Great Squeeze"

You will have to torrent it, seems like the producers took it off Youtube.