/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4956068]

Hey /sci/,
What are dreams?

[Anonymous No.4956071]

Metaphysical /x/ garbge, not /sci/.

[Anonymous No.4956076]

>>4956071
im looking for a realistic explanation, not demons.

[Anonymous No.4956078]

>>4956076
Prove that dreams exist. Without evidence we can't do science.

[noko No.4956081]

Dreams are the byproduct of your brain compressing data, and resetting your most active neural sectors.

Just a guess.

[GOMADWarrior No.4956091]

A series of thoughts, images, and sensations occurring in a person's mind during sleep.

[noko No.4956095]

>>4956091
>>4956091
lulz

[Goldman Rosensteinowitz !aDy39tnTFw No.4956101]

>>4956071
Mo, this is a perfectly legitimate question.

Dreams are basically disjointed flashes of memories. Normal dreams anyway. Vivid and lucid dreams though, it's a bit less clear. In those situations though, there's a part of your brain that's active that's normally inactive during sleep and it allows you to organize your dreams. In vivid dreams, it's like you expect certain things to happen and your brain brings up the relevant colors, shapes, sounds, etc., whereas a lucid dream is like deliberately bring out those shapes, sounds, etc.

That's my theory anyway based on my own experiences and a bit of research. I'm sure there's scholars with a different theory.

[Goldman Rosensteinowitz !aDy39tnTFw No.4956109]

>>4956101
So many speeling errors....

[Anonymous No.4956110]

I believe in a multiverse, so, you know, dreams are a manifestation of alternate realities stemming from what your memories contain.

[Anonymous No.4956111]

>>4956101
Please show me the evidence that dreams exist. We don't do science with leprechauns and unicorns either, just because -- hurr -- we can imagine them.

[Anonymous No.4956119]

>>4956078
>Try-hard autist trying to be cool in front of his friends

[Anonymous No.4956124]

>>4956119
>implying I have friends

Answer my question, you strawman.

[Anonymous No.4956125]

>>4956111
http://lucidity.com/SleepAndCognition.html

fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.4956135]

>>4956125
>lucidity.com

Let me guess: You'd also take a site called "mermaids-exist.com" as scientific evidence of mermaids, right?

[noko No.4956139]

Dreams usually form simple examples of things that happen in your life, in my opinion that is a form of data compression by allowing you to shorten the path of your mental steps when calculating your reasoning.

such as 4 years of torture, and instead of going through 4 years of memories to sum up a feeling, your brain lets you dream of a compressed idea that gives you quicker response time for the issue at hand.

I do not think its that direct though, by that i mean i do not think it is a direct message, I think the fact you can remember them is a side effect.

I believe the compression is designed to have a more physical effect on your brain, like making the paths that your brain takes when making decisions more efficient.

Some times this process is more direct and your subconscious slaps you in the face with a lucid dream, and some times its mostly physical and unconscious.

[Anonymous No.4956143]

>>4956135
>>4956111
Tell me, you've never experienced dreams while you sleep?

[Anonymous No.4956144]

>>4956135
>not even reading the information
>can't see that they show the references to the scientific studys

[Goldman Rosensteinowitz !aDy39tnTFw No.4956152]

>>4956143
Ignore it. Someone tried this same exact troll on a thread just like this one a few months ago.

[Anonymous No.4956156]

>>4956143
What I "experience" is irrelevant. I could also imagine an omnipotent being in the sky, it still wouldn't become real this way. Science needs testable predictions and objective evidence.

>>4956144
>oh no, he didn't read my strawman
Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.4956163]

>>4956152
>asking for scientific evidence
>trolling

Choose one. The only troll are you, if you want /sci/ to believe shit out of religous faith and without evidence.

[noko No.4956170]

>>4956111

Answer.herp()

Your brain goes through different stages, and using Magnetic Resonance Imaging you can view that there are detectible and predictable changes in the frequencies that your brains neural systems are processing at.
On top of this areas of the brain that control certain functions that we can observe while you are aware become active, sudgesting there is a point ware your brain is going through a process that involves the usage of those processes with out a physical response, such as memory, image processing, and physical responses.

end answer()

[Anonymous No.4956171]

>>4956156
>What I "experience" is irrelevant.
How is this possible, then?

http://gizmodo.com/5843117/scientists-reconstruct-video-clips-from-brain-activity

It seems you have a severe case of autism.

[Anonymous No.4956180]

Chemicals and shit, yo.
DMT.

[Anonymous No.4956183]

>>4956170
>implying correlation = causation
Do you even science? A dream (if such nonsense really existed) is not a visual perception. Don't you abuse legitimate research on neural activity to introduce your religious bullshit on /sci/.

>>4956171
What does this have to do with "dreaming"? Stop coming up with strawmen.

[Anonymous No.4956184]

>>4956163

[noko No.4956185]

>>4956170
jesus, i need to start proof reading..

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956186]

They're just random memories firing off during the last stages of sleep when different parts of your brain reactivate at different times.

You evolved an imagination to help you make predictions which is essential for making correct decisions, your imagination pieces the memories together and inadvertantly activated related memories. resulting in a cycle of processing the memories and dipping back into your memories for more material.

[Anonymous No.4956188]

>>4956170
>sudgesting

[None !h3/Ace/X4. No.4956190]

Your brain getting bored and running through the days memories and the associations it makes between those and your older ones.

Your memories are a collective composite of experience so like ... dreams are ... kinda your brain just keeping itself busy.

[Anonymous No.4956193]

>>4956190
enjoy your avatar ban

[Anonymous No.4956194]

>>4956190
>brain getting bored

Full retard. The brain is a physical entity that reacts to outer stimuli. There is no such thing as "getting bored".

[Anonymous No.4956202]

>>4956193
Posting it in every thread he is in isn't going to do anything. Report it and move on if you want, he is contributing more than you are.

[Anonymous No.4956201]

>>4956190
You know it's against the rules to be an avatarfag now, right? Not that I don't like VG Cats or anything.

[Goldman Rosensteinowitz !aDy39tnTFw No.4956204]

>>4956171
That's amazing. I'd buy a device that could record my dreams in a heartbeat.

/sci/, we need to make this happen.

[noko No.4956210]

>>4956078
>>4956135
>>4956184


Im out

[None !h3/Ace/X4. No.4956218]

>>4956194
>Full retard.
>Calls the brain a physical entity.

Dreams are the result of a particular set of neural activities that have grown too complex to govern themselves and require unification, for which your subconscious gives it.

Saying your brain gets bored is essentially the reason you dream. In laymens terms.

[Anonymous No.4956213]

>>4956204
Really? But the gubemant already records everything we do, why would you let the man take control of your dreams?
Illuminati, reptilians, jews did 9/11 and such.

[Anonymous No.4956219]

>>4956213
disinfo agent detected

[Anonymous No.4956225]

>>4956218
>implying the brain isn't physical
How retarded are you?

And "dreams" still don't exist. No evidence, ergo they are killed by Occam's razor.

[Anonymous No.4956226]

>>4956218
enjoy your avatar ban

[Anonymous No.4956227]

>>4956218
>subconscious

>>>/x/
>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.4956229]

>>4956218
Nah, man, the brain is the physical entity in your skull, the mind is the metaphysical entity.
>>4956219
ALL OF THE DISINFO!!!ONE!1

[Anonymous No.4956231]

>>4956213
If they were able to view our thoughts and dreams, that would mean they would eventually end up quite neutral, as we are free in our minds.

It would be like viewing a million naked people every day, you would just loose your bias after a while.

i dont fear this.

[None !h3/Ace/X4. No.4956234]

>>4956229
>Entity.
In this context that is an illogical choice of diction, the brain is referred to as a physical construct.

Trust me brah, i know how to neuroscience.

>>4956225
>Dreams don't exist.
In what context? they are observable, neurologically. And ergo, you are retarded.

[Anonymous No.4956233]

/x/ thread?

Hi guise, I astral projected slenderman while watching le grifter.
Ask me anything.

[Anonymous No.4956237]

>>4956234
enjoy your avatar ban
back to >>>/x/

[Anonymous No.4956238]

>>4956231
If they can see what you are thinking then they could arrest you for committing crimes that you haven't committed yet, sell that information to advertising companies, all sorts of shit.

[Anonymous No.4956241]

>>4956234
Semantics, mang.
>trust me, I'm a doctor

[Anonymous No.4956247]

>>4956234
>observable neurologically
Fucking bullshit. Metaphysical crap is never observable.
Btw you should look up "entity" in a dictionary, retard.

[Goldman Rosensteinowitz !aDy39tnTFw No.4956249]

Anyone wondering what it would be like to use a brain-reading device on someone tripping on hallucinogens?

[Anonymous No.4956253]

>>4956156
>What I "experience" is irrelevant. I could also imagine an omnipotent being in the sky, it still wouldn't become real this way.
One argument here could be what is happening when one imagines a god in the sky. Sure you could say that what they believe is happening is not in line with reality, but you cannot say that automatically means nothing has happened. In the very least there is a (scientifically testable) physiological event that goes on even if its just normal brain chemistry. In the event of dreams though there is detectable/tangible evidence of a physical change in the body that correlates exactly to the claim of "having a dream". Not only does this suggest to the most backward ass retard that "hurr dreams are real" or at least "dreams exist" it rules out the perspective of calling them an imaginary god since the dream IS the combination of the physical change, and the resulting memory.

SO
>Science needs testable predictions and objective evidence.
>watch brain waves, and other physiological changes during sleep.
>Record claims of dreams.

Not that i even believe you doubted this for a second

[Anonymous No.4956255]

>>4956249
It would be boring as fuck, just like looking at any kind of brain imaging. Have you never seen any pictures of brain scans?

[Anonymous No.4956260]

Maybe start with the basic :
- Dreaming happen during the sleeping.
- The sleeping is divided in three kind (to make it easy) : Superficial Sleep, Deep Sleep, Paradoxical Sleep.
Each characterized by electric waves in the brain delta wave are famous and fancy.

The common belief is that dreams happen during the paradoxical sleep, it's not really true, people can experiment dreaming at any time of their slept.

There's very little we know about dreaming to be honest, all we can surely say is that it's closely related to the Memorization and Cognition because people with Dreaming disorder present Disease in those field.

[None !h3/Ace/X4. No.4956259]

>>4956247
>Singular definitions outside of context.
>Using this as the basis for an opposition.

My sides.

[Anonymous No.4956262]

>>4956259
enjoy your avatar ban

[Anonymous No.4956263]

>>4956249
Depends on the drug but their occipital and temporal lobes would be on fire.

[Anonymous No.4956265]

I always wondered what a cow dream of, for a cat it is pretty obvious but a cow? Biggest grass patch ever? Milk dream? Gay sex dream?

[Goldman Rosensteinowitz !aDy39tnTFw No.4956268]

>>4956255
Nah, not really, with the exception of >>4956171

So there's more of these?

[Anonymous No.4956270]

>>4956253
>record claims of dreams
Haha, and if I "claimed" I can go into other dimensions in my "mind", you would scientifically believe me as well, right? You are a gullible and unscientific /x/tard.

>>4956259
>doesn't even bother anymore to post pseudo-arguments
Well, another won debate for me.

[Anonymous No.4956275]

>>4956268
Moron. That shit only works for visual perceptions.

[Anonymous No.4956286]

OP just wanted scientific data about what happening in his brain during his sleeping time, again .sci/ you disappoint me.

>>4956234
>>4956218
>Trust me brah, i know how to neuroscience.

Minute ago you just said that you didn't how the basic of biostatistics.
Stop calling yourself a scientist, you're just a kid who find cool the rocket and atomics explosions.

Sorry for them OP, they can be good if you ask them about hard sciences.

[Anonymous No.4956289]

>>4956270
If you could produce believable evidence of detectable changes in yourself or the environment perfectly matching the frequency of your claims i certainly wouldn't say that its was just imagination.

But that would be an experience I've never had so i would have to hold some degree of skepticism unless i could see it thoroughly proven. Dreams on the other hand fall quite comfortably within the realm of something i have experienced.

10/10 though bro, keep it up.

[None !h3/Ace/X4. No.4956290]

>>4956286
>Stop calling yourself a scientist.
>Bio-statistics.
>Bio
>Statistics

1/10

[Anonymous No.4956295]

>>4956286
>OP just wanted scientific data about what happening in his brain during his sleeping time

Then he should have said this. He should have said "Hello /sci/, can I have some scientific data about what is happening in a human brain during the sleep time?"
But instead he posted metaphysical "dream" shit from /x/.

[Anonymous No.4956299]

>>4956289
>my subjectivity is objectivity

You're an IQ fundie tier troll.

[Anonymous No.4956298]

>>4956295
Well why don't you enlighten us? since you seem to be a high-class sperglord.

[Anonymous No.4956305]

>>4956295
You faggots make the guys over at /pol/ sound like nice people. I hope you are proud of yourselves.

[Anonymous No.4956306]

>>4956290
enjoy your avatar ban

[Anonymous No.4956315]

>>4956290
I'm starting to enjoy this troll.

[Anonymous No.4956316]

>>4956298
>sperglord
That's a funny way to admit your defeat.

>>4956305
/sci/ is not about nice people, /sci/ is about science. Religion and superstition can be discussed on /x/.

[Anonymous No.4956318]

>>4956316
>/sci/ is not about nice people, /sci/ is about science. Religion and superstition can be discussed on /x/.
This. Anyone who thinks otherwise will enjoy a ban

[Anonymous No.4956326]

>>4956316
I haven't seen a single informational statement from your part, it seems you simply are mad because someone asked a question in an improper manner, you're probably the equivalent of those retards who post "gb2>>>/b/" and other mental diarrhea.

[Anonymous No.4956328]

>>4956068
Sleep is akin to "brain defragmentation".
This is a ongoing area of scientific study.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/stevecla01/archive/2007/02/18/dreams-are-really-just-our-brains-defragmentin
g-overnight.aspx

http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.ch/2011/08/is-sleep-brain-defragmentation.html

questions?

\thread?

[Anonymous No.4956333]

>>4956316
Science is about coming together to make religion and superstition into something we can all know as fact, not being a dick to everyone and "hurrrrr you're wrong because there is no evidence." Evidence is found because people experiment with superstition, it isn't just automatically gained whenever you want it to be. Hundreds of years ago the Sun went around the Earth, it was considered scientific fact until someone challenged the status quo and discovered that the Earth goes around the Sun.
It is faggots like you that stall scientific advancement.

[None !h3/Ace/X4. No.4956329]

>>4956318
Those things are constituents of the human mentality, and therefore fall under the categorization of psychological phenomenon. And by extension, are a observable through psychoanalysis. Which means they are an element of psychology, psychology being the foundation of behavioral neuroscience, superstition and religion belong solely on /sci/ and nowhere else.

[Anonymous No.4956337]

>>4956329
enjoy your avatar ban
enjoy your inane trolling ban
enjoy your pseudoscience ban
back to >>>/x/

[Anonymous No.4956340]

>>4956326
There is no "informational statement" to post other than the fact that metaphysics and beliefs in something supernatural do not belong here.

>>4956329
Retard.

>>4956333
>hurr I want to believe
That's not how it works. Science needs evidence and testable hypothesis. If you don't have them, you can fuck off.

[Anonymous No.4956341]

>>4956318
>don't like what i don't like
Grow up. You are not the end all be all. You are an insignificant pile of atoms, like everything else, your opinion does not mater more than anyone's.

[Anonymous No.4956342]

>>4956328
\thread

[Anonymous No.4956349]

>>4956340
You gain evidence by open discussion of such topics. You can't hope to know what is in the box unless you observe the inside of the box.

[Anonymous No.4956351]

>>4956341
Neither does your immature opinion matter in any way. Science is objective truth and doesn't give a fuck about your infantile postings.

[Anonymous No.4956354]

>>4956299
You ask for evidence or a means of testing
I provide
You don't comment on the empirically testable evidence i mentioned.
>i have low IQ
>i am troll

okay i go back to /b/

[Anonymous No.4956358]

>>4956349
You don't gain evidence by some faggot coming along and saying "let's discuss <random shit>, but I can't prove it exists, you have to believe it"

[Anonymous No.4956361]

>>4956354
Where's your evidence? Link to it. And it better not be that pseudoscience website.

[Anonymous No.4956364]

>>4956358
Herbs were once believe to be magic sky god tools but it is just the chemicals and compounds in them that make them treat disease, what is superstition yesterday is science tomorrow.
>inb4 nope nope nope i cant back down i'll make myself look like an ass
You already look like an ass.

[Anonymous No.4956369]

>>4956361
>hurr i dont like something so i won't even give it a chance
Good job, our future generations will be so grateful.

[Goldman Rosensteinowitz !aDy39tnTFw No.4956375]

>>4956358
My god people, why are you still replying to this faggot? Your willingness to be trolled is astonishing.

[Anonymous No.4956376]

>>4956364
We can observe that herbs exist. How much of a strawman are you?

>>4956369
>hurrrrrr I want to believe
Are you religious? Because you argue like a fucking creationtard.

[Anonymous No.4956378]

>>4956375
>implying scientific method == trolling

Your retardation is unlimited.

[Anonymous No.4956386]

>>4956376
And with the proper tools and research we can obverse that a whole lot more exists beyond what we can see. Before infrared goggles people couldn't see it but it still existed.

[Anonymous No.4956387]

>>4956386
Then show me the evidence of your metaphysical phenomenon. Show me how it can be observed. You can't.

[Anonymous No.4956399]

>>4956387
Metaphysical shit is honed through training.
Get on a strict regiment for 3 years and then you'll have your evidence.
>inb4 nope not gonna do it because i have my head stuck up my ass
It is the same as physical training your muscles, you can't expect to get results when you have never exercised in your life and try to pick up a car.

[Anonymous No.4956405]

>>4956399
Now that's just asinine trolling garbage. No kind of training will make demons or fairies real. 1/10 for making me reply.

[Anonymous No.4956414]

>>4956405
>implying I ever said anything about demons or fairies

[Anonymous No.4956439]

So, dreams don't exist, you say.
How do I remember them, how does PEOPLE remember them?
Of course dreams don't exist in the physical way. That's a fact.
But the brain does have activity while REM sleep.
Also, you guys should rework your definition for "religion" and "superstition".
The fact that the brain can make one imagine things is also a fact. If dreams are imagination then they do exist.
Maybe what you are claiming as "unreal" would be their explanation. Maybe what you are saying is that they are not "dimensional travels, time travels and shit" (mfw they aren't). But that is not the only explanation.

I remember a dream I had two nights ago. I dreamnt of a disaster (a very very bizarre disaster) and a friend of mine (an old friend, haven't seen her in years), became my girlfriend. Of course, it came from my imagination and it will never happen, but it certainly is in my long term memory, as many other bizarre (and not so bizarre) dreams.

Maybe your denial of dreams existance (as things we imagine and nothing else) comes from your lack of capability to explain them.

[Anonymous No.4956453]

>>4956439
>How do I remember them, how does PEOPLE remember them?
How do people "remember" paranormal encounters? Protip: They don't and fairy tales aren't real.

>The fact that the brain can make one imagine things is also a fact.
No. That's a claim, not a fact. Please prove it or GTFO.

> comes from your lack of capability to explain them.
It comes from a lack of evidence. Learn2 Occam's razor and take your shit back to /x/.

[Anonymous No.4956454]

>>4956439
>how do I remember them
Just like you remember anything else, with memories.
Why are you bothering to argue this? It's been established anyone in denial of the existence of dreams is an idiot.

This isn't the point of the thread, by the way.

[Anonymous No.4956462]

>>4956399
>>>/x/
enjoy your pseudoscience ban on your way out

[Anonymous No.4956464]

>>4956340
How do you create an hypothesis faggot?
By experimenting with something new (btw "superstition" is something "new").
How do you discover things? BY LOOKING FOR THEM.
You don't sit and wait until an epiphany comes from the sky and you stand up and say "E=´MCC"

[Anonymous No.4956468]

>>4956341
>>>/x/
enjoy the ban

[Anonymous No.4956469]

>dreams don't exist
>thoughts don't exist
>qualia don't exist
>observations don't exist
>can't do science without observations
>science isn't scientifically verifiable (so it doesn't exist)
>oh god I'm so fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.4956467]

>>4956464
A testable hypothesis is formed by evaluating existing observations. Metaphysical shit that cannot be observed yields no testable predictions and is not science.

[Anonymous No.4956475]

>>4956469
Fuck off, IQ fundie.

[Anonymous No.4956479]

>>4956453
Esquizofrenia, allucinations, what else?
Or is that "superstition" and those people can see beyond our capability? Or is the last thing I said superstition?

Also, you do remember those things with memories. And for that you need brain activity.

Or maybe you are saying that imagination does not exist? Then how do you imaginate things, or how do you invent stuff (the practical use of imagination)??

And as for the lack of evidence. You don't sit and wait until it comes from the sky, you look for it. How do you look for evidence from something that happens within the brain? By checking the brain activity, and where it happens.

What you are saying is that every neurologist in the planet is wrong. Let me see your Ph.D please!

[Anonymous No.4956482]

>>4956467
Then you can see the brain activity while REM sleep. And people already did that. And there is a LOT of brain activity in REM sleep. They are not just orders to move the eyes, you know...

[Anonymous No.4956486]

>>4956468
>I don't agree with you so I'll report you!
Still here.

[Anonymous No.4956490]

>>4956479
Neurologists research the brain and the function of nerves, not imaginary fairy tales. Your post is a huge collection of baseless assumptions, non-sequiturs, strawmen, arguments from ignorance and multiple other fallacies.

I found a better thread for you: >>>/x/10710579

>>4956482
There's brain activity. So fucking what? There's also brain activity when people are told to imagine unicorns. They're still not real.

[Anonymous No.4956501]

>>4956490
Read what I said again. Dreams and allucinations, or every kind of imagination is unreal at a physical level. (when I say physical level means that the imagination does not become material and you can not touch it)

But maybe the physical demonstration of imagination is brain activity itself. It's not /x/. It does happen, WITHIN YOUR BRAIN. That's why it's called imagination in the first place, because it isn't material, it is not real outside your brain.

But you can still take it "as real" and put it into your memory.

Now, you are not going to deny the existance of memory, are you?

Also, maybe you are saying that brain activity means nothing? That's laughable, at least.

[Anonymous No.4956506]

>>4956501
If it ain't physical, it doesn't real. Deal with it. By your logic any fairy tale magic garbage becomes real because of --- hurr --- "imagination". This is not how science works. Evidence or GTFO.

[Anonymous No.4956507]

>>4956490
also this:
>>4956482
Those "people" I mentioned are neurologists.

[Anonymous No.4956513]

>>4956490
>people want to have an intellectual discussion
>direct them towards an inane discussion

[Anonymous No.4956515]

>>4956513
>didn't read the post he was replying to

[Anonymous No.4956516]

>>4956469
>>4956469
Read and realize the error of your ways, oh reductionist empiricist autists

[Anonymous No.4956520]

>>4956513
/sci/ is the board for science. If you want "intellectual discusssions" (lol, good one) on something metaphysical or allegedly paranormal, you can do so on /x/.

[Anonymous No.4956525]

>>4956506
>doesn't real

besides that grammatical mistake:

I did say it is physically real, how? BY THE MOTHER%&%$%$ BRAIN ACTIVITY!!!!!

The brain creates it. It is nothing more than chemicals and electricity, but it exists, as well as an Operative System exists. Then the brain has the choice wether to dump it into memory or not. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. When it does, you remember it.

Also happens with dreams, as they are imagination, but in a little more structured way (as you are imaginating yourself).

When imagination overrules the brain (happens a lot of times while not asleep) they're allucinations. If that happens a lot, It may be a medical condition.

[Anonymous No.4956534]

>>4956525
Fe de erratas:
whether and not wether

[Anonymous No.4956535]

>>4956525
No, you retard. Brain activity is brain activity and nothing more. There are electrical and chemical signals. That's it. No magic, no metaphysics, no fairy tales, no supernatural, no qualia, no consciousness, no dreams. Your garbage is unscientific as fuck and you shouldn't bring up such nonsense on a science board.

[Anonymous No.4956560]

>>4956535
Brain activity is brain activity. I didn't say it was magic and all the shit you just said.

But brain activity are data. If the meaning of that data is something you created, something you imagined. It is not material, but it is real.

Let's put it in other terms.

You have a .jpg You decode it to binary. What is it? Is it a binary decoded .jpg or is it just 1's and 0's? MAYBE BOTH?

You are mixing the meaning of "material" and "real".
They are completely different things.
The fact that you imagine a bear does not mean that there is a bear there, but rather a bunch of chemicals and electricity in your brain that "resembles" a bear when you "see" it.
Don't forget that the visual image from your brain is an abstraction of the real "hardware" (your eyes). You can emulate your eyes, that is called allucinating (while awake) and dreaming (while asleep, along with other emulated senses).

Of course that if I have a PS2 emulator I don't have a "real" (material) Play Station 2. But I can emulate it.

[Anonymous No.4956579]

>>4956227
>subconscious
>not acknowledged by science

[Anonymous No.4956580]

>>4956560
> It is not material, but it is real.
No. If it ain't material, it can't be real. It has to be observable and testable.

>You have a .jpg You decode it to binary.
Another fucking strawman. Stop distracting.

>The fact that you imagine a bear does not mean that there is a bear there
Exactly. That's why I told you to stop talking about imaginary bears.

You can come up with an endless stream of fallacies, yet you remain wrong and retarded. Deal with it. Magic doesn't real. Your crap belongs on /x/ and not on /sci/.

[Anonymous No.4956582]

>>4956579
0/10

[Anonymous No.4956609]

>>4956580
Goddamn it, I'm not that guy and you're so fucking retarded. You can't think abstractly.

[Anonymous No.4956611]

>>4956580
First:
Don't use "retarded" any more.
Second:
>implying the things you quoted weren't just EXAMPLES.
>implying you are not a troll

I also said that the brain has the power to emulate senses. While awake that is called allucinations. Talk to a medical doctor, get them to explain you how did they find it. They'll mention "brain activity" as evidence.

Also, that same allucinations, while asleep, are called dreams. That's no magic. That is just your brain emulating your senses, maybe showing you memories, maybe showing you junk. It is no superstition.

[Anonymous No.4956622]

your brain's screensaver

[Anonymous No.4956626]

>>4956609
>implying "thinking abstractly" = "believing in magic"
You are a retard and a troll.

>>4956611
I asked you multiple times to show me the evidence. You fail to do so. Please leave and refrain from further trolling.

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956630]

So wake up after observing a dream, you then observe some chart showing the results of an experiment.

Why is your observation of the dream invalid while your observation of the chart valid?

The interpretation of the facts may be flawed but the facts are not flawed. If someone sees strange lights and believes that evil spirits are trying to harm him, that doesn't mean he did not see strange lights, it means he had an epileptic seizure resulting in him seeing strange lights.

[Anonymous No.4956633]

>>4956630
Other than the "dream" the chart can be ojectively detected. Other people can see it as well and we can make predictions regarding its existence, for example that it will still be there after some minutes etc.

[Anonymous No.4956635]

Okay, this happened 16 years ago. I was 13. I had a dream, where my older brother was packing his things into a white Volkswagen. He was also dressed in a white suit. He told me he was going to left but everything was okay, then he hugged me. Six days later, he committed suicide.

No, seriously, what the fuck happened? I don't believe in that bullshit but this is just unbelievable and bizarre.

[Anonymous No.4956646]

My dreams rarely, if ever depict places or people I know. Perhaps my imagination re-arranges elements remembered from reality into new situations. Frequently they don't make any sense at all. More rarely they are vivid. I once dreamed I was a passenger in a pickup truck. Something happened and it rolled backwards off a cliff. The sensation of falling seemed so real I woke up.

Australian Aborigines believe they are traveling to different worlds in dreams. Perhaps there is a subconscious connection to other ... never mind, this is /sci/. If we cannot measure it, it is not real.

[Anonymous No.4956647]

>>4956626
OK. Now I declare that you won. Are you happy?

Now explain me what are allucinations.

[Anonymous No.4956687]

>>4956635
The morning my father died we were on our way to visit him, hadn't got the news yet. The night before I had an interesting dream. It was one of the very few times someone I knew was in my dream. In the dream my father went fishing, carrying a pole and wearing waders, something that he never does. I said "see you later" or something like that. He died in his office from a heart attack, around the time I woke up that morning in a hotel room on the way to see him.

I believe one day we might have a scientific way of explaining this phenomenon, probably not in our lifetimes. To dismiss it as "coincidence" denies scientific curiosity.

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956703]

>>4956633
Subjective beliefs are not necessarily false.

For instance Freud identified the ID and ego by analysing subjective judgements by people long before the neo-cortex and amygdala were identified by neuroscience.

In fact we can measure brain waves during different sleep patterns and brain activity during dreaming.

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956713]

>>4956687
spooky, the romantic part of me wants to think he was in the afterlife

[Anonymous No.4956715]

>>4956703
Subjective beliefs are not science. Freud didn't use the scientific method, he just made up a controversal framework that belongs in the realm of philsophy.

[Anonymous No.4956716]

>>4956713
>romantic part
>afterlife

Will you please leave our science board?

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956747]

>>4956715
In tomb and temple paintings Ramses II is 50 feet tall and converses with the gods. Does this mean Ramses II does not exist? Maybe all history doesn't exist because it can no longer be observed again, I'm not being sarcastic, these are possibilities, just extremely unlikely.

Of course that would be nonsense, considering the overwhelming amount of historical evidence, be it from subjective accounts of people living at the time, it would be illogical to assume that it is all a complete fabrication.
>>4956716
Which god do you pray to?

I pray to Crom, but I seldom do so, he doesn't listen. But Crom is strong! If I die I have to go before him and he will ask me "What is the riddle of steel?", if I don't know it he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me.

That is Crom. Strong on his mountain!

[Anonymous No.4956750]

I'm a Psychology graduate and I like to see it in more sciencey terms than artsy fartsy terms, i.e. neuroscience, memory.

I read this book that integrates neuroscience, memory, emotion and biochemicals. Supposedly dreams are mostly associative memories, visual input and random firings. A big mesh of it. i.e. concepts are activated. Not surprisingly, the more activated memory stores tend to show up more. So, although it's not like psychoanalytical dream interpretation, dreams may hold meaning with regards to what you think about.

SO, if you're annoyed with someone and think about them irritating you, you may dream about falling out with them. And then other concepts latch on like a chain, extracted via associative memory. i.e. the person irritates you because they farted in your car. You dream about a car, and then you dream about a car crash you heard about the same day on the news, etc.

Overall though, this is mainly determined from dreams we REMEMBER. And we only remember dreams if we have disrupted sleep and wake up before we've finished the whole process. At the end of sleep, we secrete biochemicals that cause amnesia towards dreams. So, who knows what these forgotten dreams could tell us.

[Anonymous No.4956755]

Also, people often believe in precognitive dreams, like when a partner dies in a war, and they see them in their dreams. But if you look at it in another way, people will be thinking about that person a great deal, i.e. if they're ill or if they're at war. So, this person is constantly a memory concept activated in their mind, and therefore, there is a higher probability that they will appear in a dream.

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956772]

>>4956750
>Supposedly dreams are mostly associative memories, visual input and random firings. A big mesh of it.
Yep, in fact that's pretty much what I said earlier.
>>4956630

You seem to have refined reasoning skills. Can I ask you what do you think is the cause of homosexuality?

[Anonymous No.4956774]

>>4956747
You're so full of shit. Please leave. We don't want your religion trolling here.

[Anonymous No.4956775]

I questioned this scientific definition of dreams myself but couldnt find an accurate one.

To me dream is the expansive mind. Some use memory others draw up unrealistic things in dream. To be honest science hasnt done much to further dream study. Many scientists proclaim to their materialism and thus ignore the dream notion all together.

[Anonymous No.4956780]

>>4956775
>expansive mind

What the fuck are all these /x/ retards doing on /sci/?

[Anonymous No.4956794]

>>4956780
>expansive
>Covering a wide area in terms of space or scope; extensive or wide-ranging.
>(of a person or their manner) Open, demonstrative, and communicative.

>mind
>The element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciou...: "as the thoughts ran through his mind, he came to a conclusion"

wheres the /x/ in it? are you suggesting the mind isnt expansive? or the mind doesnt exist?

[Anonymous No.4956798]

>>4956794
Care to show any evidence of that "mind"?

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956802]

>>4956774
Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

[Anonymous No.4956807]

>>4956802
Please go back to /b/. Your religion trolling is not funny, it's just spam.

[Anonymous No.4956822]

>>4956798
Are you a retard?

[Anonymous No.4956826]

>>4956822
It seems you are. Please take your trolling back to /b/.

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956832]

>>4956807
why you no like conan

[The Stealth Rapist No.4956830]

>>4956794
Congratulations. You have been raped by <span class="math">\underline{\overline{\mathbf{The~Stealth~Rapist}}}[/spoiler].

[Anonymous No.4956838]

>>4956830
Back to >>>/b/ please.

[Anonymous No.4956861]

>>4956826
>>>/b/
please. keep your nonsense there

[Anonymous No.4956868]

>>4956861
>directing science to /b/

0/10

[Anonymous No.4956872]

>>4956868
>ignorance
>sci

[Anonymous No.4956878]

>>4956872
>believing in magic
>science

pick one and only one

[Anonymous No.4956882]

>>4956878
>ignoring reality
>science
pick one

and also get out of /sci/ troll

[Anonymous No.4956888]

>>4956882
>magic
>reality

Please go to /b/ and learn some subtlety. You're a disgrace for all trolls.

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956891]

>>4956868
>>4956872
So let me get this straight. You two are arguing about whether dreams have a scientific explanation or not?

They do. 2 posters have outlined the basis of dreams already, me here
>>4956630
and this person who used more technical terms
>>4956750

If you want some kind of fruity "spiritual" explanation for dreams, then you should consider the possibility that dreams may represent which memories you associate with each other, for example if you dream about your friend's mother walking in on you while you have sex with your girlfriend it could be because you lust after your friend's mother and try to repress your feelings for her.

[Anonymous No.4956894]

>>4956888
>ignorance
>science
go back to /b/ please and learn some science

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4956895]

>>4956868
>>4956872
So let me get this straight. You two are arguing about whether dreams have a scientific explanation or not?

They do. 2 posters have outlined the basis of dreams already, me here
>>4956186
and this person who used more technical terms
>>4956750

If you want some kind of fruity "spiritual" explanation for dreams, then you should consider the possibility that dreams may represent which memories you associate with each other, for example if you dream about your friend's mother walking in on you while you have sex with your girlfriend it could be because you lust after your friend's mother and try to repress your feelings for her.

[Anonymous No.4956902]

>>4956895
>psychology
>science
go pls

[Anonymous No.4956907]

>>4956635
>>4956687

Just wild thoughts here, but maybe you subconsciously noticed that there is something wrong with your relatives and the thoughts more or less manifested in a dream. The signs of sickness can be very subtle so you never noticed them consciously.
Also possible: You just had a regular random dream and the shock from the event pulled it back into your conscious memory as if it had always been there.

Quite interesting thought. I think there is a scientific explanation.

Also: Can't believe people are still talking to the "lOl TH3r3 i5 N0 DR34MS" kid. Look it's either a troll or a bored autistic fag ... absolutely no use arguing.

[Anonymous No.4956910]

>>4956895
Stop talking such utter garbage. You have no evidence. Metaphysical nonsense is nonexisting in science. Occam's razor. Have you ever heard of it? Please take take nonsense somewhere else. It is not science.

[Anonymous No.4956915]

>>4956907
>won't argue against science and logic

Stay retarded, religionfag. And please get that troll shit out of here. If you're not willing to submit to the rules of science, e.g. providing evidence, testable predictions etc, then you fucking don't belong here.

[Anonymous No.4956916]

>>4956832
For the records I like Conan and enjoyed your references.
but Crom does not welcome tripfags in Valhalla

I like the term dream defragmentation that somebody coined. Dreams most likely are a product of evolution to help analyse daily activities in a safe and prolific environment. A cat might dream about chasing things or standing its ground, albeit in a cat-like fashion as limited by its brain structure.
When multiple brain reagions are activated, a thought process is established. If this thought process is repeated a synaptic link is formed between the respective cells involved. It is probable that the same cells involved in one memory share a function with other memories. To tie this in with dreams; those cells that were activated during the day are similar to those activated during the dream phase. Now dreaming is more fragmented but the overall effect is that neural networks are being formed. Neuroscience has evidence to suggest that these memories may migrate over long periods of time to more central regions of the brain and into the long term memory, depending on the importance of the memory/thought process.

[Anonymous No.4957042]

>>4956078
>>4956156
>>4956376
>>4956387

I like you. Please continue.

[Anonymous No.4957049]

>>4957042
It's not my turn. I asked for evidence and the trolls/retards failed to provide any. By now it is obvious who's right and who's wrong.

[Flibble !Prb3WfhoI6 No.4957120]

>>4956902
>>4956910
Are you that guy from the other thread who thought I was serious when I quoted conan the barbarian's prayer to crom?

I am aware that we need to be careful when dealing with subjective anecdotal evidence in psychology, but facts are facts.

As I said earlier, tomb and temple paintings show Ramses II as being 50 feet tall and conversing with the gods but even though the literal interpretation is false we can infer that Ramses II was a figure powerful enough to have himself portrayed in this way. In the same way, while dreams are not some magical trip to noo noo land we can infer that the sheer amount of people who experience dreams suggests that there must be some neurological basis for them and the evidence suggests they are linked to the random recall of memories during the later phase of sleep.

[Anonymous No.4957135]

>>4957120
You're doing it again. You are clearly underage and totally uneducated with regards to science. Please leave. You are cancer.

[Anonymous No.4957144]

Hold on.
People don't still believe in dreams do they?
>>>/reddit/

[Anonymous No.4957376]

>>4956713
My father was a PhD scientist and atheist. He did not believe in an afterlife any more than I do. When we got to his house to go through his things and all that, one night my brother was snoring damned loud so I grabbed a sleeping bag and slept on dad's office floor in the exact spot he died. Nothing "spiritual" happened. I don't remember any dreams from that night, probably because we had been drinking a bit. He hasn't been in my dreams since, except the location of his old laboratory was once. In the dream I went to the building (a major corporate research facility) and went down the stairs to where the lab was, but it was nothing more than an empty rock-lined cave. No equipment at all. He was one of those people that I wish could have been uploaded to a computer somehow. It was like a whole library burned down. In this case the dream was very symbolic of the loss.