/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4944074]

What's up, /sci/?

I start my Organic Chemistry education in about a week and I'm pretty excited. I have the book my university is using and have made functional group flashcards just for a good primer. Additionally, I checked out the sticky'd resources post and am in the process of making my way through that.

Can anyone recommend anything that will help making the first few weeks a little easier? Anything I should be reviewing from General Chemstry (one or two)?

Thanks, guys!

[Gearbox No.4944088]

>>4944074
There will be very little that will carry over from Gen Chem 1 or 2, aside from knowing what your elements are. I suggest you try and learn concepts by repetition (really, do as many examples in the book as possible as you learn them) rather than trying to memorize. Eventually, if you study right, you can be presented with some reaction and know how to develop a mechanism based on concepts rather than rote memorization.

Also, find a buddy you can study with, and do your homework together, taking turns explaining each reaction to each other (drawing steps, electron pushing, everything). You'll find teaching it to someone who is learning it with you is super helpful.

BTW - I'm a senior BS+Honors Chem Major

[Anonymous No.4944107]

>>4944088
Yeah, I did hear that not much you learn in General Chemistry really applies. Would you say that you started learning reactions within the first few weeks of class? Is there anything I can do now to prepare to learn reactions?

[Gearbox No.4944126]

>>4944107
I can't say that you can really do that much to prepare, other than reading whatever chapter you're going to learn about before you go to lecture. It's the type of class where even having heard the terms before seeing them in lecture makes them stick that much more. You may not understand what you read, but when your prof goes over it, it'll click.

Also, buy a model kit, and learn to think in 3D (seriously).

[Anonymous No.4944144]

>>4944107
Senior chemical engineer here.

Don't worry about learning the reactions. Mechanisms are what's important.

As far as what you could study ahead of time. Maybe learn basic nomenclature/functional groups. Review electronegativity, pKa, redox reactions, and electron hybridization.

Posting some cheat cheats for o-chem.

[Gearbox No.4944146]

>>4944107
Also, your other question I didn't answer. No, the first few weeks of class will probably be basic functional groups, nomenclature, VSEPR (This IS from Gen Chem - Review It & build models/think in 3d), and learn how to count by writing numbers down (not kidding, counting in your head will get wrong answers, but numbering carbons on paper means you can't miss them).

[Anonymous No.4944147]

>>4944144

[Anonymous No.4944149]

>>4944147

[Anonymous No.4944159]

>>4944149
I also have these for O-chem II if you're interested.

[Anonymous No.4944162]

>>4944147
>>4944146
>>4944144
>>4944126
>>4944088
Thanks, guys. You've been super helpful. I'd be lying if I said I weren't a little intimidated by this class.

[Anonymous No.4944185]

>>4944159
And yeah that would be cool if it's not too much trouble. I'll be taking both I and II.

[Anonymous No.4944193]

>>4944162
Don't be. My O-Chem I teacher was a complete joke (professor with tenure who basically gave free A's). We were supposed to cover 15 chapters in O-Chem I, he only covered 7.

I jumped into O-Chem II with a huge disadvantage and did just fine (A-). When it comes down to it, Organic Chemistry revolves around maybe 6 or 7 basic concepts. Learn those concepts well and you'll be able to handle whatever they throw at you.

[Anonymous No.4944199]

>>4944159
O-Chem II, 1/4

[Gearbox No.4944201]

>>4944162
Yay, humus and lignin

[Anonymous No.4944204]

>>4944199
2/4

[Anonymous No.4944212]

My university is a big premed factory, so orgo is really tough here, so maybe I'm not getting a fair picture, but every (chem, chemE, bio, biochem, everyone) who takes a lot of chem classes absolutely fucking hates orgo, and I don't mean because it's hard. They (me too) hate it because it's hand wavy nearly-subjective bullshit

[Anonymous No.4944210]

>>4944204
3/4

Let me know if I post the wrong subject for any of these.

[Anonymous No.4944222]

>>4944210
4/4

Do not that these are just a broad overview of some important concepts. This is by no means everything you will be covering/the same depth. Regardless though, while O-Chem can be a challenge, I think students definitely make it out to be more difficult than it really is.

[Anonymous No.4944235]

>>4944212
Eh, I think its because of pre-med that it gets such a bad reputation. Chem/ChemE/BME majors have more of an interest in the field in my experience and tend to do better.

I do agree that the subjective thing can be fucking annoying. I would ask my O-Chem lab instructor questions over material/old tests from my lecture. 50% of the time he'd disagree with how my lecture teacher did a problem.

[Gearbox No.4944249]

>>4944212
It's really not subjective, but I do understand where you're coming from. We have a big pharmacy school here so everyone and their brother who thinks they have what it takes to get in usually realizes they're not hot shit when they get to OChem 2. Most of them have the same opinion you do, but they're pressured under a 500 student enrollment in pre-pharm with only like 100 spots available after 2 years of study.

When it comes down to the nuts and bolts of what you'll learn in OChem, most of the reactions are very simple, very old, and are very OBJECTIVE in a manner that intermediates have been proven via observation by NMR or a variety of other methods.

I personally think the sheer amount of hatred toward OChem is because it's a lot of content that people feel they need to memorize, instead of learning a handful of basic mechanistic steps that can describe pretty much everything. Chem E guy hit the nail on the head earlier.

[Anonymous No.4944267]

How you'll do in this class is entirely dependent on your instructor.

If you go to anywhere but a large state college you'll do fine and actually learn something.

If you're unlucky enough, like me, to go to such a state school, you'll absolutely hate it. Profs don't give a rat's ass about anything but their own research, lie about what's going to be on the exams, etc.

Just as an example, I got a 17% on one of my midterms in Orgo 2, and that was a C+ equivalent.

Fucking premeds.

[Anonymous No.4944277]

Do I sense a Hopkinsfag?

Regardless: the first part of the course will be a lot of spatial reasoning. I recommend starting out with a model kit at first. Most people "crawl" when they first try to visualize so much in their head. If you make the effort to "walk" with the model kit you can then mentally run like nobody's business.

After that read up on MO theory. Shit's useful.

After that, once you get to reactions, learn MECHANISMS and don't memorize that when you mix A and B you get C. You'll be grateful when weird, new mechanisms pop up and you can sort of slug through them.

[Anonymous No.4944279]

>>4944277

The question directed at: >>4944212

[Anonymous No.4944281]

>>4944222
>>4944204
>>4944199

I did all this in grade 12... are you sure you have the right images? Might just be Canadian curriculum or we had a good teacher but im starting chem. eng in september and if this is Uni material i feel a lot better.

[Anonymous No.4944284]

>>4944267

>Just as an example, I got a 17% on one of my midterms in Orgo 2, and that was a C+ equivalent.

Wait what?

[Anonymous No.4944293]

>>4944284
dumb professors that do retarded hard exams, then have to bell-curve the entire class so they don't have to explain why 300 students in a class of 320 didn't get their credit.

[Anonymous No.4944296]

>>4944293

Haha, at least your uni's chem department actually bell curves. Mine doesn't do shit. Last year the class average for general chem I was around 40% and II 30%, and they didn't give a shit.

[Gearbox No.4944311]

>>4944281

Most US high school tracks don't have any sort of OChem in them, unless it's a big school that can offer it as an elective. If it's easy for you, don't brag when you get to class :)

[Anonymous No.4944340]

The important stuff to know from gen chem is acid/base chemistry, VSEPR theory, MO theory, intermolecular interactions, periodic trends (especially with regards to electronegativity and qualities that increase/decrease acidity), and basic quantum mechanics.

Orgo is all about bonds. If you can predict which bonds are most likely to break and which are most likely to form between two molecules given the environmental conditions, congrats, you know orgo.

>>4944284
Orgo seems to be a class that can differ wildly in difficulty between colleges/professors. At my top 20 school a 50-60% on an exam was enough to get you a B- in the class. Virtually no one at that school got above B+. I knew one guy who got an "A" both semesters and he was some chemistry wunderkind from Peru.

[Anonymous No.4944341]

>>4944311
yea i'm just so shocked to see so much terminology i can actually understand, doesn't happen much here.

and i didn't even take Ochem, it was just a normal chem class, 3 chapters chemical properties, enthalpy of formation, aggregates etc 4 chapters equilibrium constants, buffers systems, acid/base equilibria, gas pressure equilibrium, solute dissolution, 3 chapters electrochemistry basically just alot of redox voltage potentials, then in the 2 weeks we did a bunch of Ochem but we really just half-assed our way through IUPAC naming scheme then some orgo reactions.

[Anonymous No.4944362]

>>4944340

Yeah, it's the same story in my university. Very rarely does one get an A in orgo chem, which is why I plan on taking it at a different university known for its easier orgo course next year.

[Anonymous No.4944373]

>>4944341
see
>>4944340

A lot of orgo is based on gen chem concepts. If you know your shit in gen chem, you can actually do a surprising amount of orgo without knowing too much about the formal concepts. That said, shit does get more complicated pretty fast. And as bad as first semester gets, second semester makes the previous one look like fucking high school chemistry.

>>4944362
Careful about that. I know that med schools HATE seeing people take pre-reqs away from their home universities, and I'd imagine the same is true for grad schools.

[Anonymous No.4944508]

At my school our curve for both semesters was 80%-A, 60%-B, 40-C, 20%-D, >20%-F. I got an A both semesters, but It did require some effort. The thing that gets me was we had a 257pt final that was graded with a max score of 200 and someone still got a 6 in my class. So long story short, pray you have a good amount bio/premed majors in your class and you'll be fine.

[Anonymous No.4944525]

Honestly all you need to do is be a logical person and know you gen chem and it will be easy (it was for me). (Almost) Every reaction in ochem follows from logic and the principles in gen chem like valence theory and especially electronegativity. You do have to memorize a good amount of jargon, though.

[Anonymous No.4944535]

>>4944508
But as everyone said, If you learn the mechanisms as they are taught and do practice problems and old exams you'll do fine. The core concepts to know for the first semester is how pka will effect equilibria, stereochemistry, and IUPAC naming. Other then that you may go over NMR (tbh i doubt you will though) and some basic alkene reactions. I think our final was the first exam that actually had real ochem. All the others were IUPAC, pka, stereochem, or alkene conversion problems.