/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4928563]

I had a weird dream last night and I suppose this is the best board on 4chan to share it with you (maybe I'll post it later on /pol/ too). Basically it was set in a close future, where the matter of abortion as been set once and for all. Simply put, instead of being aborted, women who do not wish to keep their fetus go to a special clinic, where, instead of being aborted, it is removed and put in artificial wombs and later the developed children are send to adoption or orphanage (adoption most of the time, as there is still a huge demand for it and there is much less risk of the mom claiming back the baby as she has definitely renounced to here right to the baby by choosing "abortion"). It work pretty well, has many religious organizations keep it afloat.

So, there is this teenager girl, a bit lost, not really smart who goes there to get her fetus removed. She is a bit worried but the nurse take good care of her. she is nice and reassuring, but also school her to use a condom next time.

But, then just before the operation, there is a problem and the teenager get lost in the hospital. The artificial wombs facility is in the same building and are maintained there. she see all the step of progressions in all the high tech transparent containers, through nearly formed babies up to little fetus, then to to almost just one cell. She think this weird.

She find that weird, because, despite being not that smart, she still remember her biological lessons in classes and she know that Fetuses are normally more developed than after the few weeks most people wait for before getting abortion.

She then pass through a final door and she see...

[Anonymous No.4928567]

>>4928563
She see doctors, using syringes to extract stem cells from dead fetus and preparing them for the artificial wombs. Then the dead fetus are thrown away in trash can.

She is then surprised by a main doctor. A lot of scream is ensuing. Later she sign a paper given to her by the lawyer of the clinic. She will receive a great amount of cash every months if she accept to keep her mouth shut. The main doctor, blaber her a bit, explaining that there was to much loss with trying to transfer the actual fetuses and that it was to costly anyway. she must tell nothing or they will lose their founding from the religious organization.

He end up telling that, in the end, it's the same anyway and there is no actual differences between raising the stem cells from the start and actually keeping the fetus alive to transfer it in the artificial womb.

So the Teenager girl is a bit baffled, but she need/want the money anyway, sign the paper and decide to forget the whole thing. But now she also decide to keep the baby.

End of my dream. What do you think?

[Anonymous No.4928574]

>>4928563
She sees doctors, using syringes to extract stem cells from dead fetus and preparing them for the artificial wombs. Then the dead fetus are thrown away in trash can.

She is then surprised by a main doctor. A lot of scream is ensuing. Later she signs a paper given to her by the lawyer of the clinic. She will receive a great amount of cash every months if she accept to keep her mouth shut. The main doctor, babel her a bit, explaining that there was too much loss with trying to transfer the actual fetuses and that it was too costly anyway. She must tell nothing or they will lose their founding from the religious organizations.

He end up telling that, in the end, it's the same anyway and there is no actual differences between raising the stem cells from the start and actually keeping the fetus alive to transfer it in the artificial womb.

So the Teenager girl is a bit baffled, but she need/want the money anyway, sign the paper and decide to forget the whole thing. But now she also decide to keep the baby.

End of my dream. What do you think?

[Anonymous No.4928580]

ethics/discussion of principles have nothing to do with science. So follow your own advice and take it to /pol/ or similar. Anyone wanting to discuss/debate this thread should follow OP onto whatever other board he decides to post this on

[Anonymous No.4928584]

>>4928580
Couldn't we at least discuss the feasibility of such a thing?

[Anonymous No.4928596]

>>4928584
No
>>>/pol/
>>>/b/

[Anonymous No.4928598]

>>4928584
then delete this thread and make a new one about the feasibility of artificial wombs or growing fully functional humans from an extracted stem cell.

[Anonymous No.4928608]

>>4928584
>>i actually read this shit. i actually care what other people think.
Goddammit.

Scientific progress is a cold path. Sometimes you just gotta do things behind peoples back. You honestly think back in the dark ages someone volunteered to be dissected did you?

[Anonymous No.4928610]

the feasibility of a corporation paying off some nosy skank for life or the feasibly of a corporation simply making her "regrettably suffer from complications during the procedure"
and sweep her out the door once they figured out she's seen everything?

no thanks. Not much to ponder really.

[Anonymous No.4928615]

>>4928608
More often, people used to dig up bodies out of cemeteries to cut them open.

[Anonymous No.4928623]

>>>/lit/
>>>/x/
>>>/b/
fuck off

[Anonymous No.4928627]

>>4928610
which procedure? She didn't get operated. Also, not everyone is a soulless machine. Sometimes, it is less risky to bribe someone rather than bet that all the implicated employees will be ready to cooperate in a murder.

[Anonymous No.4928635]

OP is a 15 year old hoe that got knocked up, oh and shes stupid

[Anonymous No.4928632]

>>4928598
People be damned to have any good introduction to any matter of discussion.

Let's all talk about matters in the less passionate and less interesting way possible!

[Anonymous No.4928641]

>>4928635
Op here, I am a 30 years old male, so no.

[Anonymous No.4928664]

>>4928580
>Anyone wanting to discuss/debate this thread should follow OP onto whatever other board he decides to post this on
[or make the thread themselves]

Discussing stuff like this isn't a problem, but this isn't the board for it. Like discussing anime on /v/ or wathever

[Anonymous No.4928675]

>>4928627
oh yes she did... no sweat.
you are very innocent.

[Anonymous No.4928673]

>>4928598
It's a bit different than the usual conception people have of artificial womb. Usually, they imagine an AW being used from the start, since the artificial fecundation.

Interrupting pregnancy a few week after the natural fecundation to transfer it in an artificial Womb would probably be a bit more tricky and much more technical.

[Anonymous No.4928676]

>>4928664
see>>4928584

[Anonymous No.4928680]

>>4928673

oh my no, i think he meant they still abort the fetus...pr says otherwise ofc for funding
they would harvest some scraps and start the whole gestation over again.

that should save some time?

[Anonymous No.4928683]

>>4928680
That's the gist of the story. Clearly, whoever was in charge there decided to give up. But the question of the actual feasibility still remain.

[Anonymous No.4928692]

>>4928676
see
>>4928598
What's being discussed now is /pol/ material. Nothing else.

[Anonymous No.4928698]

i think the real problem lies in that when removing the chromosomes from human samples, one is required to take out the spindle apparatus that enables cell division in the first place

[Anonymous No.4928710]

>>4928692
see>>4928632
Really no need to be as perky as you are.

[Anonymous No.4928715]

>>4928698
>removing the chromosomes from human samples
Why do that in the first place? Is it related to artificial wombs?

Or are you talking about stem cells?

[Anonymous No.4928720]

>>4928692
So far the only things that has been discussed was /sci/ related. Though, there was a little bit of actual /sci/ in the various and a vast amount of "THIS IS NOT /sci/ RELATED!"

[Anonymous No.4928734]

we're still using staples in surgery...what, do you think you can just dip a swab into a pile of biological material, and pop it into a magic xerox machine?

maybe 3 out of 100 attempts with lower order lifeforms results in a success...yes, you'd need to do a fair bit of cloning for each fetus

the required funding would be massive just to produce unwanted orphans and adding to our plight

what benefits indeed...go away

[Anonymous No.4928742]

>>4928734
Obviously, it was set in the future.

Are you telling there is a greater chance of success for transferring a several weeks old fetus into an Artificial Womb rather than extract stem cell from it and make it grow from scratch?

Are you telling the first method has better chance of success?

[Anonymous No.4928794]

>>4928742
no.

I'm saying it's cost prohibitive with zero reward.

[Anonymous No.4928816]

>>4928794
owning a car also used to be cost prohibitive for most people until we improved the cost of production. It's only a matter of time before a technique improve and become less costly.

As for the reward, even without the whole "abortion" thing, there would be people looking into Artificial Wombs. For being used from scratch, there would be sterile women not wanting to rely on an host mother. For being used for already developed fetus, there are pregnant women who could have accident (car crash, stair failing) and need the fetus removed to be saved.

What is your point? It look like you all want to avoid actually discussing artificial wombs and dismiss the subject at all cost.

[Anonymous No.4928828]

if i wanted that, i wouldn't have bothered posting bow would i?

currently, and in the near future, it's not feasible. End of story.
Not my fault.

[Anonymous No.4928850]

>>4928828
>currently, and in the near future, it's not feasible. End of story.

Terra-formation is not currently, nor in the near future, feasible, yet we talk about it from time to time on /sci/ and we don't say "not possible now! no talk about it, then!". I don't think something not being directly accessible right now is a good reason enough to not talk about it on /sci/.

On an other matter, pardon my low level English, but what do you mean by "bow"? Surely, you are not talking about the throwing arrow device, aren't you?

[noko No.4929099]

Plausible.. too plausible....

[Anonymous No.4929132]

>>4928850
oh that...lolz...no, no
A clerical error

it was suppose to be "now" instead of "bow"
the letter 'B' is right beside the 'N' on my keyboard.

sorry about the confusion.

unfortunately discussing likely advances in the future is wasted on folks like you, since separating pure fantasy from probable reality is obviously impossible for you.

I'm off the merry go round for a minute...chicken nuggets are calling my name

brb

[Anonymous No.4929479]

>>4929132
>unfortunately discussing likely advances in the future is wasted on folks like you, since separating pure fantasy from probable reality is obviously impossible for you.
Could you point out where you getting that from me? Seeing as how little far we have been in the actual subject, I don't see at which point you would have been able to objectively draw that conclusion.

Beside, Ilike to think of /sci/ as a board where we at least try to enlight posters, instead of just saying "NO LoL, U R 2 Dumb to get it!"... Oh wait, what I just said there, about how /sci/ should be that what you are using to judje me being unable to ditinguish fantasy from reality?

[Anonymous No.4929503]

>>4929132
Wait, you are award that on this very same board, there is an ongoing thread about the feasability of the Helicarrier from the Avengers movie, right? It is right here:
>>4924415

Seeing what other matters are being talked in this board, I find kind of baffling that you consider artificial wombs too far fetched to be discussed on /sci/.

Do we need a movie about that to start talking about it, or what?

[Anonymous No.4929508]

TUBERS!

[Anonymous No.4929651]

delicious....mmmmh!

>>4929503
well...in ideal conditions you are the OP.

The one who brought a moral based dilemma to /sci/
based on a dream you had.
...a dream where the world casts it's limited resources to fill itself with orphans.

you give no criteria...you ask, "what do you think?"
..then instead of discussing technical hurdles to be overcome when brought to light, you issue strange comparisons and offer no further insights as to the actual technology.

yes...the proposed Helicarrier isn't fueled with the corpses of unborn babies last i knew however...nor was a visitor manage find out about it and get set up for life instead of assassinated

see the difference yet?

[Anonymous No.4929657]

>>4929503

So, out of curiosity, how do you think we should build and artificial womb when we don't even really understand how real ones work?

[sage No.4929671]

>>4928563
I have read the first few paragraphs and it sounds like a conglomeration of common futuristic ideas and movies. Nothing new really, anybody could make up a story like this. Maybe /x/ will give you a few replies.

[Anonymous No.4929732]

>>4929651
>well...in ideal conditions you are the OP.
>The one who brought a moral based dilemma to /sci/
Didn't. It's the next poster who decided it could only be a moral based discussion, while the Original Post was relatively clearley suggesting to talk about the scientific side of the thing here while the moral part would be discussed on /pol/. guess it wasn't clearr enough, tough it should have been obvious.
>based on a dream you had.
>...a dream where the world casts it's limited >resources to fill itself with orphans.
You said it yourself. It was a dream Last I heard, dream aren't the most rational thing to be. It only can only be as coherent as it can get.

Also, you might not know this, but the demand for adoption of babies nowaday is still way higher than the number of orphan babies available. The adoption market is far from being flooded with orphaned babies, nowadays quite on the contrary. But again, I didn't knew dreams were supposed to take into account economics realities.

[Anonymous No.4929740]

>>4929651
>you give no criteria...you ask, "what do you think?"
Again, I simply thought we would simply talk about the /sci/ side of the stuff, like, for example as suggested here>>4928742
what would be technically the most difficult thing to do, Artificial womb from feundation, or with a several weeks old fetus?
>..then instead of discussing technical hurdles to be overcome when brought to light, you issue strange comparisons and offer no further insights as to the actual technology.
Weird comparisons were used to determine wether or not Artificial Wombs was too scifi to be talked on /sci/, because somehow some people here thought it was. I didn't thonk I'd have to waste time and posts having to actually defend my case about wether or not we are allowed to talk about AW.

As for not bringing any actual info on the devlopment of Artifical Womb, well, I'll bite: I had this weird dream, woken up thinking, "geez it was really weird", then went "I wonder how far we are in actually devloping Artificial Womb?" And made the mistake of thinking "I know, I'll go on /sci/, launch a discussion about it and maybe some guys with actual knowledge on it will bring up some interresting info about it. "

But obviously, I was wrong. What I should have done is do my own researches then bring the result on 4chan to let other /sci/ member disect it like it was some sort of publishing scientific paper.

It was silly of me to think I could simply come to /sci/ to learn stuff.

[Anonymous No.4929758]

>yes...the proposed Helicarrier isn't fueled with the corpses of unborn babies last i knew however...nor was a visitor manage find out about it and get set up for life instead of assassinated
I didn't want to talk about it on /sci/, as it actually is a moral stuff and I don't really understand why I have to justify the logical falacy of a dream, but you keep coming back at it so i'll bite anyway:

If, at your job, some snooping arround guys accidentally discovers some unethical stuff, nothing really illegal or as terrible as murder, but still bad enough to put the business you work on down if the word came out. And many employees are aware of his discovery too. Now, if your boss says he is going to kill that guy and everyone should keep that silent, will you, Yes YOU, anon, will you agree to that? Can you tell me you'll accept it just because your boss tell you and become accomplice in a murder too cover something your boss has much more to lose than you? And can you assure me that all your other co-workers will never mutter about it? Or is it more liekely than one of the employee end up trying to prevent that or at least confessing afterward out of guilt afterward? Are you telling me all the employee where you work are synical persons that only care about keeping thier job.

Alos, can you assure me that your boss actually TRUST his employees enough to never talk about how he ordered someone to be killed. Can you assure me your boss would not go paranoid about one of his employee spilling the bean?

Wouldn't the safest path of action be bribing instead of taking the risk of making too many people silent accomplice in a murder?

[Anonymous No.4929790]

>>4929758

when you're involved in murdering babies on a routine basis and your boss says to take care of some loose ends, i'd expect you would jump to it without batting an eye.

sorry to tell you, but people are like that.
history has many references to the the very concept.
you seem knowledgeable enough to know this already though.

in for a penny, in for a pound and all that

[Anonymous No.4929795]

>>4929740

how civil of you.
such a rare treat around these parts

apology accepted.

[Anonymous No.4929803]

>>4929732
i would be interested in your sources.

to an uneducated fellow such as my self, when demand outstrips supply, there is usually no product sitting around on shelves taking up space

if what you claim is true, there is no such thing as an orphan.

[Anonymous No.4929812]

>>4929790

hey now.
we grow them back, man. no harm, no foul.

murder won't exist anymore

[Anonymous No.4929816]

Genetically engineer cows to be a suitable host for humans.

[Anonymous No.4929840]

>>4929790
>when you're involved in murdering babies on a routine basis
>murdering babies
>murdering
>babies
Wait, wait, wait! Are you telling me that killing fetuses is the same than killing babies?
On /sci/?
I hope you realize this make the rest of your argument invalid.

Much more likely, people working there are telling themselves "It's not a baby, it's just a fetus", or even more likely they'd think "we are making them alive through their stem cell, so it's not like we actually kill them anyway". It's no different than a normal abortion clinic and I clearly don't see people working in such place as bunch of mobs ready to kill if given the occasion.

What they are doing is not unethical because they are getting rid of most of the fetus. what they are doing is unethical because they do not do what the company is claiming to be doing. That's far away from a mass killing of babies.

All in all people working there would still be normal dudes that would still be reluctant/revulsed by the prospect of an actual murder. A murder is still far enough of their ethical blur for them to be able to perceive a difference.

[Anonymous No.4929844]

>>4929795
My post was meant to be a bit snarky, to be honest.

[Anonymous No.4929868]

>>4929803
There are orphans for several reasons:
First the administrative work is an horrible mess. getting green lighted to become adoptive parents can consume a lot of time which kinf of clog up the orphans arrival to parents.

Second, the highest demand is for orphan BABIES and that supply actually tend to run dry frequently. The waiting line is huge and theonly way to bypass it is to get the babies with health problems that are more likely to die before reaching adulthood For some reason, most adoptive parents don't look into that kind of kid.

Third, there are indeed non-babies orphans, but the demand is less high for them, as some adoptive parents don't like the idea of having a kid that might remember having other set of parents. I am lees sure about the demand and supply of non-babies orphan, but I think the demand is still high. Once again the adminitrative work still clog up the income. Strangely, the state tend to consider that leaving an orphan at an orphanage is better/safer than leaving the child in the care of potentially bad foster parents. So the orphanages stay full.

[Anonymous No.4929875]

>>4929816
Wait, that was in one episode of that TV show, the one with the country village and that always end up with thing being settled by a juge and a jury.

I thought it was pure fiction.

[Anonymous No.4929886]

it is fiction. its genetically engineered pigs.

[Anonymous No.4931938]

>>4929875
It was that show with one of the lawyer who was basically a Jewish caricature.