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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4918663 No.4918663 [Reply] [Original]

Psychiatry is a pseudo-science disguised as medicine.

>> No.4918667

Oh you don't know what psychiatry is, you twat.

>> No.4918674

>>4918667

Wats sike eye uh tree?

>> No.4918675

Psychiatry is a medicine. It makes up its own diseases to be treated. Also, it is very politically influenced; every now and then some conduct is taken out of the disorders/diseases list because it offends a certain group of people.

But it is certainly, a pseudo-science.

>> No.4918696

>>4918663

Without psychiatry every psychopath would be contained like regular inmates, and every schizophrenic would go untreated. Every depressed or bipolar person would go untreated as well, and that makes a huge portion of "well-adjusted" society, you just don't realize it because they're medicated.

>> No.4918707

Spoken like someone who has never known anyone in need of psychiatric treatment.

>> No.4918722

>>4918696
i agree with most of that but bipolar is not real. i was diagnosed and on meds for about 8 months. i stopped treatment and havent't had any problem in a year. look up the symptoms and you'll realize they describe most of humanity.

>> No.4918731

>>4918663

i would say psychiatry is a pseudo-science simply because it is and the combination of the least understood sciences.

i just hope that they get less arrogant. the mind is a muscle even if it's loony, bro.

>> No.4918729
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4918729

>>4918722
Did somebody say bipolar transistors?

>> No.4918732

>>4918696
>you was bullied in highschool?
>I recommend continuous sessions of electroshock

>> No.4918738

Psychiatry is what you get when Social "sciences" and Medicine have a retarded baby who converted to Judaism and is an active supporter of Feminism and Unions.

>> No.4918744

>>4918663

Please provide your operational definition of what constitutes a "pseduo-science" and make sure you make it as broad as possible so your definition isn't just a description of psychiatry.

>> No.4918749

>>4918744
It's mostly bullshit.

>> No.4918756

fake science is fake

>> No.4918757

>>4918722
because the meds are crap because. psyc let alone psyc meds are not understood completely yet, but people take them because they are told by "smart guy" (told)

its people's brains

zoloft, an anti-depressant, increases suicidal tendencies in minors. wtf? this type of stuff happens all the time.

>> No.4918759

>>4918749

What constitutes "bullshit"?
How do you define "bullshit"?
How do you differentiate "bullshit" from "not bullshit"?

>> No.4918761

>>4918757
>started a sentence with because
>answering questions(poorly) that weren't asked
>terrible english.
>can't seem to make a point.

>> No.4918767

>>4918759
You won't play the word game here.

Psychiatry is based on bullshit and mixed with half-truths from both Sociology and Medicine.

>> No.4918769

I like to refer to psychiatry and physcology as 21st century witchcraft. The fact of the matter here is that, they have no real idea what the hell they are doing, and in my opinion these fields are far from being science or medicine.

>> No.4918773

>>4918761
lol. many of the mechanisms of psychiatric disease scientists dont understand. the majority of treatments are outdated. e.g. modern electro shock therapy. a cure from this is more of a side-effect than a treatment check your stats.

>> No.4918778

>>4918767

I'm using Socratic questioning to show you that you have no clue what the hell you are talking about. A pseudo science would be something that utilizes jargon to make itself appear "scientific." Psychiatry utilizes the scientific method with variables that have flexibility, it is correct to term it a "soft science." Even this is wrong seeing psychiatry is increasingly utilizing neuroscientific methods to better define certain disorders.

Keep trolling.

>> No.4918789

>>4918663
Literally every subject besides Physics is a psuedo-science for people too stupid to do Physics.

You are not a scientist unless you have a graduate degree (Master's or PhD) in Physics from a school at least in the Top 30 Graduate Physics Departments from US News.

Chemistry is just applied Physics for Physics rejects. Biology is for stupid women who don't know what they want to do in life. Sociology, Psychology, and Medicine (and any related topics) are for stupid people who have no clue what this world is about. Engineering is for homosexual teenagers.

The sad thing is, /sci/, sometimes you are this elitist. I'm currently working towards my Bachelor's in Computer Science at M.I.T., and I come here because 1) /g/ is beyond retarded and 2) Having already completed Calc I-III and Linear Algebra, I'd say I'm at least competent enough to lurk here.

The point is, I've had people calling me "retarded" for choosing to major in the subject I like, and yet having no idea about my subject. I'm sure you all think "soft" sciences are bullshit, but until you get to know the soft sciences, you can't talk shit about them.

>> No.4918796
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4918796

>>4918778

this

/thread

>> No.4918797

>>4918789
MIT huh? I may be closer to you then you might think.

>> No.4918799

>>4918778
>Psychiatry utilizes the scientific method with variables that have flexibility
If using scientific method makes it a science, then the shit Scientologist believe in is also a science.

>> No.4918805
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4918805

>>4918799

>> No.4918809

>>4918797
You go to MIT? Or Harvard?

If you go to MIT, I'm in Baker House.

>> No.4918812

My initial reaction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFy9c7BlJOY&t=11m41s

Now then, psychiatry is a science faced with the challenge of inaccurate information. Inaccurate does not mean false, it just means there is a margin of error and probabilities involved, all scientific instruments in even the most controlled of experiments are not absolutely accurate. Of course we need to be careful with actual pseudo-science but all things considered it can and often is rational, for instance Freud succesfully divided the structure of the brain into the ID and ego before neuroscience discovered the amygdala and neo-cortex. Defense mechanisms and common traits of various mental illnesses and so forth are a scientific approach even if the observations cannot be strictly quantified, a spade is a spade.

>> No.4918816

>>4918805
Yeah, post reaction pictures instead of giving a proper argument.

Dianetics uses the scientific method even more extensively than Psychiatry.

>> No.4918824

>>4918809
>Go to

Hah!

>> No.4918839

>>4918816
Scientologists also have a burning hatred of psychiatry. They also try to be missionaries on 4chan.

>> No.4918841

>>4918824

So you attend Harvard.

>> No.4918846
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4918846

>>4918816

You're clearly trolling. So reaction pictures is all you get.

If not, lay out which aspects of Dianetics is scientific and how this is a "more extensively" use than psychiatry.

You are making the argument so the burden of proof is on you. Either make a comprehensive argument or don't bother as it looks like trolling.

Picture semi-related, you are the kid.

>> No.4918847

>>4918841
No I do not. Getting warmer though.

>> No.4918861

>>4918846
As far as I know, Dianetics is the same as Psychiatry in everything except for:
- The way they divide the brain and the mind
- How they classify mental diseases and disorders
- How they treat them

>> No.4918871

Really we have no idea what these pills are doing, but they work.
Spoken as a guy who has benefited from antidepressants.
And don't just say it's placebo either, I had to go through four trials before I found an antidepressant that worked ( a tca).
It's basically just trial and error, but it's not psuedo-science. The pills do work for most people.
Of course, therapy is an absolute load of shit, but that goes without saying.

>> No.4918878

>>4918861

Saying something is the same as far as you know =/= similarity. Let me give you an example of your argument.

As far as I know, Basketball is the same as Baseball in everything except for:
- The way they divide how the game is played
- How they classify scores
- How they implement rules

But yeah, they are essentially the same thing.

I'm done taking time to discuss this with you. You clearly aren't putting any effort into your arguments and as I said before I think you are just trolling. If you aren't, then you are a dumbass. Either way, not worth my time.

>> No.4918892

>>4918878
I don't see how the fuck are you giving any arguments either.

YOU tell me when the fuck is the science in saying "You were brutally raped by your uncle when you were 7, I guess that has something to do with your attraction to underage boys" or "Well, he like to eat shit, that has got to be a mental disease!"

Instead, you're name-calling me and asking for non-arbitrary evidence.

Both "make use" of the scientific method for their bullshit but they draw conclusions differently; the same way those two sports are similar in that they are competitive physical activities.

>> No.4918894

>>4918871
They worked to help your depression. But now you might be a ticking time-bomb for any number of unforeseen complications.

That's the problem... Now you might suddenly die because you were too much of a pansy to confront your own problems.

>> No.4918899

>>4918878
Dude, I don't even support Scientology; but Freud claiming that I want to fuck my mother isn't very scientific either.

>> No.4918913

>>4918892

Time to put my cards on the table. I'm a licensed psychologist at the doctoral level. So allow me to inform you that shitty treatment =/= pseudo science. What you describe is fairly shitty analysis of a person. If it got taken to court you would be laughed out of the courtroom. If it was used in a meaningful way to drive treatment you could conceivably have the beginnings of a malpractice lawsuit. I will also tell you any psychiatrist or psychologist worth a shit would not say these things. So your characterization of the field as pseudo science based on these examples is terrible at best.

I'm guessing that you were thinking of psychoanalysis when you posted your first point. Well, psychoanalysis is NOT science. It carries non falsifiable hypotheses that were extrapolated by Freud based on a case load of a couple dozen. It lived on as psychodynamic psychotherapy, but this method does utilize hypothesis testing to further the theory. That being said, most DOCTORAL level psychologists do not use this theory, or they use it for case conceptualization and utilize other methods for treatment (such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which is what I practice).

Shit eating gets you into Pica territory, which is a legitimate mental illness that is commonly seen in pregnant women, children, severe cases of autism and teenage girls with other eating disorders.

You don't seem to be able to differentiate what a few dipshits in the field think is science from what the broader field practices. For example, individuals who believe in intelligent design may think they are practicing biology, in reality they are not. So I will once again say it seems you don't know what you are talking about.

I highly recommend spending some time on Wikipedia browsing psychology and psychiatry to understand why you are wrong.

>> No.4918918

psychiatry != therapy. Psychiatry is exclusively medicine.

>> No.4918927

>>4918696

Wrong, they are not "well-adjusted" they are too drugged to be able to do anything.

By untreated I guess you mean forced to take psychiatric medication without their consent.

>> No.4918942

Are there really scientologist shills on here or is it trolling? The entire premise of scientology and dianetics revolves around alien spirits and "thetans" and people are comparing it to medicine? I can't believe this bullshit.

>> No.4918940

>medicine
>implying greedy corporation controlled industry is science

>> No.4918958

>>4918913
Thank you.

>> No.4918969

>>4918913
>I'm a licensed psychologist at the doctoral level.
Wiser than thou in the first sentence.

Study after study after study it is proven than these medications are no better than placebo. With countless side-effects. You might ask for these studies. Open your textbook, look at any random medication and look it up.

The "chemical imbalance" propaganda, which you're sold as a scientific fact is actually disproven by the actual science in the psychiatry journals. It has been proven that there's no chemical disbalance in the brain for any psychiatric disorder whatsoever. Look it the fuck up.

In multiple studies all around the world you'll see that when one of two identical twins has Schizophrenia, the other one only has it 70% of the time and yet, Psychiatrist say it's 83% influenced by genetics. The evidence proves that Schizophrenia is at most only slightly influenced by genetics. The same applies for other mental diseases.

The whole platform of biological psychiatry is pseudoscience. It's actually disproven by the science itself.

We spent hundreds of millions of dollars for decades chasing these genes which we never find and we know by the data we have the we're not going to find these genes.

>> No.4918995

>>4918969
cont'd

I'm not saying that biological mental diseases don't exist; but there isn't supportive scientific evidence that most people with Schizophrenia, Bipolar, OCD, it's caused by an internal genetic biological aggravating; the evidence just isn't there. There isn't even a test to determine whether or not a disease in genetic.

>> No.4919002

>>4918969

Damnable lies.

Antidepressants have a significant difference in depressive symptoms for individuals with severe cases of depression. Placebo effects are usually seen for moderate and mild cases.

Antipsychotics have a significant effect on the positive symptoms of schizophrenia. Negative symptoms less so. These drugs usually have placebo effects in psychotic breaks related to other illnesses (such as Major Depression, Severe With Psychotic Features).

Mood stabilizers have a significant effect on the number of manic phases and how severe they become.

We know that biology can play a role in the expression of mental illness. Other factors also play a significant role, such as environment, stressors, etc. Any study that fails to account for these other factors usually opens itself up to questions.

You are wrong. You can look it up!

>> No.4919014

>>4918969
>>4918995
You are living in a world of fantasy.

>> No.4919019

>>4919002
Just because the drugs help you doesn't mean there's something wrong with your brain. Just because they help doesn't mean they fix the problem or that they won't have negative side effects. You still can't deny there's a minimal gap between drugs and placebo.

>We know that biology can play a role in the expression of mental illness.
Prove it; show me a peer reviewed study. I'll wait right here.

The problem behind biological psychiatry is that they want to to be doctors, they want to be accepted as doctors and respected as doctors, and for that to happen they have to have medical diseases that they treat with medications.

>>4919014
You'll never find the gay gene.

>> No.4919028

>>4918847
Boston? Tuft? Northeastern? Hult? Lesley?

>> No.4919042

>>4919019

Fine.

Levy, F., Hay, D. & Bennett, K. (2006). Genetics of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: a current review and future prospects. International Journal of Disability, Development & Education, 53(1), 21-34.

My synopsis pulled from a term paper:

Molecular genetic studies utilize DNA extraction, this breaks down various genetic components into individualized genes. ADHD molecular genetic studies have focused on dopamine genes (Levy, Hay & Bennett, 2006). Several dopamine genes have been researched for associations with ADHD. This is because dopaminergic attention systems in the fronto-striatal region are believed to be a cause of ADHD.

Durston, S. (2003). A review of the biological bases of ADHD: what have we learned from imaging studies? Mental Retardation & Developmental Disabilities Research Reviews, 9(3), 184-195.

Again, from my paper:

Functional imaging studies of individuals with ADHD indicate that the frontal and striatal region, which is termed the fronto-striatal region in much of the literature, are primarily where differences between children with ADHD and controls are found (Durston, 2003). One common finding in these studies is that children with ADHD have reduced prefrontal volume compared to controls; another finding focusing on the fronto-striatal region is that children with ADHD show higher frontal activation and lower striatal activation during response inhibition compared to controls (Durston, 2003). This pattern of activation provides a strong explanation for the hyperactive-impulsive and inattentive behaviors seen in ADHD.

>> No.4919052

>>4919019

Now kindly shut the fuck up, because you are wrong.

>> No.4919058

>>4918969
>>4918995
>we're not going to find these genes
They did, 2 weeks ago.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120717084654.htm

>> No.4919085
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4919085

>>4919042
>>4919052
Do you want me to take serious a disorder reported in 3 / 5 of children globally and is the single most controversial disorder on both diagnosis and treatment? Even more serious any study on said disorder? Even more serious when the evidence you support is from the bullshit you wrote yourself which obviously means you are emotionally influenced in this discussion?

As I said before, there's no study to support Chemical Imbalance and Genetics play a significant role on mental disorders.

>>4919058
Interesting. I'll take my time to read it. However, I google "Schizofrenia genes" and the results are null and inconclusive. Also, no scientific magazine to which I'm subscribed has anything to say about this whatsoever.

>> No.4919092

>>4919042
Not that guy, but ADHD is based on behavior and does not imply a neurological disease.

http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG72FullGuideline.pdf

>> No.4919110

>>4919085

You wanted studies. I gave the synopsis from a paper I wrote. That doesn't invalidate the studies.

ADHD is a legitimate disorder. It is overdiagnosed and any parent with a slightly spastic kid wants them to have ADHD so it isn't their fault. As for 3/5 of children, your number is bullshit. Highest number I have heard is 15% diagnosed rate and even that number was riddled with errors. I have heard 10% as a safer number for how often it is diagnosed in children and in reality the prevalence rate is probably closer to 2-3% due to overdiagnosis. Once again, shitty practice in the field =/= invalidation of what is stated.

The articles cited are proof. You just don't want it to be. How about you cite some of your sources for your arguments? I have two to your none by my count.

Also, it seems you are like the first poster in either you are a troll or you clearly don't understand what you are talking about.

>> No.4919118

>>4919092

ADHD is DIAGNOSED based on behavior. That does not mean that it does not have an underlying biological expression. Seeing methylphenidate does provide symptom reduction, targets the fronto-striatal region and impacts dopamine and serotonin production we have some evidence for an underlying biological/neurological cause. Please read the Durston article to understand how biological/neurological differences explain behavioral differences observed in ADHD vs controls.

>> No.4919126

With that, I am done for the night. It seems clear the people I am arguing with either don't know what they are talking about but are trying really, really hard to pretend they do or they are trolling. Either way, no longer worth my time/effort.

>> No.4919139

>>4919110
>As for 3/5 of children, your number is bullshit. Highest number I have heard is 15% diagnosed rate and even that number was riddled with errors.
http://web.archive.org/web/20071018052052/http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/adhd/complete-
publication.shtml
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17256270

>The articles cited are proof. You just don't want it to be.
OK, as I see that you're so emotionally attached to this conversation, I'll consider you "studies" arguable proof that ADHD is a biological disorder. Even though it's just one of the many unclear physiological theories that compete against each other. Because of that, I won't dismiss it.

>How about you cite some of your sources for your arguments? I have two to your none by my count.
Well, you're the one claiming that mental diseases are biological and genetic. You're the one who should provide prove of it other than unofficial theories for a controversial disease affecting kids and then claiming they're the absolute truth.

>>4919126
>Losing the argument? Can't prove a point?
>They're trolling! Allowing you to silence your opponent and claim victory.

>> No.4919140

>>4918913

I'm sorry, but I'm really interested in psychology. Can I talk to you somehow personally? I'm not even sure you're being serious here - but I'm willing to take my chances.
Please respond.

>> No.4919150

I'm
>>4919139
Rereading my post I saw that I accidentally typed 3 / 5 which is indeed not true, when I actually meant it as a percent. I recognize my mistake and apologize for the confusion.

>> No.4919214

>>4919150
But you said it in tone of mockery for it was too high...

>> No.4919228

>>4919139

Dude did you even read your first link? The first paragraph said that ADHD occurs in about 3-5% of school children. It also says in the article that the primary cause is related to neurobiological and genetics. Epic fail.

>> No.4919238

This thread is hilarious to me. You have a handful of trolls, a pissed of "doctor", someone who seems to be stirring the pot (don't think a troll though) and a crowd expressing support.

Psychiatry might not be a psdeuo science but it gave me some lulz in an otherwise academic topic.

>> No.4919307

Psychology:

The study of a huge system with so many variables and vague definitions that not only can't you get any decent reliable data, it's also hard to draw any conclusions from them. There isn't any observable phenomena, since psychology studies the mind.

It's called a soft science for this reason, but most people on this board know that the term "soft science" basically means something is not really a science.