/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4911337]

Guys, why do democrats hate space exploration and the search for extraterrestrial civilizations?

First they almost killed the SETI project and now Obama wants to shutdown NASA.

Tell me Democrats why do you hate space?

[Anonymous No.4911340]

Because there's no reason to waste money on pipedreams.

[Anonymous No.4911346]

Because keeping the country afloat is more important than fulfilling your asinine prophecies from science fiction.

But, sure. We can fund nasa. We'll just blackout power for large parts of the county for oh, 12 or so hours at a time. and we'll close down roughly 50% of the current roads to save on maintenance costs. Oh, and we can increase college tuition again.

It's good that people like you aren't and never will be in a position of power. You think like a spoiled child.

[Anonymous No.4911349]

Because they cant tax space.

[Anonymous No.4911352]

>>4911346
>>4911340
>have entire country pay huge cash for army
>have entire country pay for lazy shits' health care
>DURR NASA IS COSTLY

[Anonymous No.4911353]

I'm NPA and really do want to explore space but it's so expensive. I can see why. But Obama will just use that money on Israel's military instead of feeding American families so fuck that failbucket.

[Anonymous No.4911355]

>>4911349
lol, this

[Anonymous No.4911361]

>>4911352
Let me guess. You're uninsured and pissed off that Obama's making you buy insurance.

[Anonymous No.4911370]

Actually, I'm pretty sure the last time anyone cared at all about NASA was during the Cold War.

[sage No.4911369]

>>4911337
>implying democrats hate space explortaion

0/10

Are you even trying?

[Anonymous No.4911374]

>>4911352

Yeah, and a lot of citizens support the wars and it would be bad politics to try and just end them. Not to mention that we've really fucked those countries and we are responsible for fixing them.

This is how the world is. This is how humans are.

Deal with it, or retreat back into fantasy.

[Anonymous No.4911379]

Politicians don't care about pursuing knowledge, just money and power.

[Anonymous No.4911382]

>>4911374
Ok, let me get this straight:

>Burn money on a massive meaningless unsustainable masturbatory burst that will, without question, collapse in on it self
good
>Incremental development resulting in functional technologies that serve useful purposes while directing development toward further advances that lead to a diverse self sustaining system that generates more value than was spent in its creation
bad


Ok totally get it.

[Anonymous No.4911385]

Give me one reason why we should perpetuate this nonsense.

>inb4 hurrr aliens

[Anonymous No.4911392]

>>4911385
Scientific exploration.

>doesn't like aliens
Wars are a better global pastime?

[Anonymous No.4911395]

>>4911392
Waiting for aliens to magically appear can barely be called scientific exploration.

[Anonymous No.4911402]

>>4911337
I don't. I'm also pro gun, but I still identify mostly as a Democrat.

[Anonymous No.4911403]

>>4911395
Collecting data from other planets/astronomical bodies that spectroscopy can't get is.

[Anonymous No.4911404]

Plugging the money drain of SETI is one of the few good things the dems have tried to do.

[Anonymous No.4911407]

>>4911404
Hush. Everybody knows that looking at pretty stars is the main priority in the middle of a heavy recession.

[Anonymous No.4911408]

>>4911404
>SETI
>a money drain
Are you retarded? A shitty F-16 costs more.

[Anonymous No.4911409]

>>4911382

Correct.

Tell me, at what point in the last two million years did humans evolve to plan centuries past their own lifespan?

Never, you say?

Well, that explains why people only live for themselves and their progeny. I don't know what you expect. We are not thinking machines. We are feeling machines that happen to think.

[Anonymous No.4911405]

>>4911385
To live on other planets. This has been the plan when man first looked up.

[Anonymous No.4911411]

>>4911408
> A shitty F-16 costs more.
And achieves more.

[Anonymous No.4911412]

>>4911405
This is never going to happen.

[Anonymous No.4911416]

>>4911412

But you're just as likely to convince him as you are to convince a christian that jesus won't come back eventually. Both are taken on faith and thus cannot be shaken by reason or evidence.

[Anonymous No.4911418]

>>4911411
lol, no. Please tell me why SETI doesn't work.

[Anonymous No.4911420]

>>4911416
I know, but we could at least try to make those religion fags leave our science board by constantly confronting them with logic and rationality.

[Anonymous No.4911422]

>>4911412
>>4911416
What's so hard to believe about this? We will one day have the technology to make it happen.

[Anonymous No.4911429]

>>4911422
We won't have the technology to travel faster than light and there is no habitable planet in our solar system other than earth.

[Anonymous No.4911432]

>>4911340
>>4911346
>FY2011 Obama administration proposes around $159.3 billion for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Let's spend money to obtain oil ineffectively and to get people support instead of exploring space which could lead to much more benefical results.

[Anonymous No.4911437]

>>4911422

>We will one day have the technology to make it happen.

That's the kurzweil bullshit prophecy. There is absolutely no reason to think that we will achieve all of the pipe dreams set out for us in science fiction.

Other than blind faith in poor science and terribly dishonest graphs like this one.

[Carl No.4911439]

>>4911432
What shitty kind of strawman is this? Learn how to debate, seriously.

[Anonymous No.4911444]

>>4911432
So your proposal is to take all the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately to fund NASA?

[Anonymous No.4911445]

>>4911444
Yes.

[Anonymous No.4911447]

>>4911429

And it will never be economically feasible to ship resources from one star system to another at sublight speeds.

One-way robots, probably. But never humans.

I know science fiction has severely stunted people's imaginations, but we could have an equally interesting time just puttering around our own solar system for the next ten to twenty thousand years, or however long a civilization can last.

Current record is about 3000 years, but that was the egyptians and before guns and the internet. So it'll probably be shorter.

[Anonymous No.4911455]

>>4911445
America is beyond doomed. The amount of anti-intellecutalism is staggering. The society won't last much longer, it will deteriate to a third world country within the next 30-50 years (much sooner if they elect Romney).

If you want to stay in touch with civilization and scientific progress, MOVE THE FUCK OUT!

[Anonymous No.4911457]

>>4911429
>We won't have the technology to travel faster than light and there is no habitable planet in our solar system other than earth.
>We won't have the technology to travel faster than light
Quantum physics can make it possible
>there is no habitable planet in our solar system other than earth.
We can terraform at least make closed environments on the moon or Mars.

[Anonymous No.4911461]

>>4911457
>Quantum physics can make FTL travel possible

NO.
0/10

[Anonymous No.4911467]

>>4911457

Nothing in quantum mechanics violates relativity which is where the speed limit was discovered.

You ignorant child.

>We can terraform at least make closed environments on the moon or Mars.

Terraforming or colonizing planets is prohibitively expensive because of the added costs of shipping materials in and out of a gravity well. Space stations are the only economically practical solution.

Christ, have you even been to college? Or are you just another dumb highschooler drunk on carl sagan?

[Anonymous No.4911516]

>>4911467
>college
>4chan
pick one

[Anonymous No.4911518]

>>4911516
Enjoy your ban, underage/trailer trash shitposting piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.4911520]

>>4911437
I really, really fucking hope you are trolling.
I just don't want somebody who thinks like this to be alive.

[Anonymous No.4911534]

>>4911518
>abusing ban request
>proclaiming ban request
Enjoy your ban

[Anonymous No.4911535]

>>4911520

>How dare you call my beliefs a religion

>i will wish death upon you. That will show you the difference.

Fascinating.

Oh well. I shall not try to argue with you. One cannot reason someone out of a position that they did not use reason to reach. You can keep your faith.

[Anonymous No.4911539]

>>4911520
>someone explains why your fantasies are bullshit from a scientific perspective
>you insult him

Please leave, cancer.

[Anonymous No.4911544]

>>4911409
>Tell me, at what point in the last two million years did humans evolve to plan centuries past their own lifespan?
what about avant-garde works? they were completely developed for future purposes, and there were an abundant amount of them
I know not science, but it shows that humanity is capable of investing for things past their time

[Anonymous No.4911548]

>>4911544

> but it shows that humanity is capable of investing for things past their time

When it's free.

[Anonymous No.4911563]

Wait wait wait.

Let me get this straight.

None of you want space exploration? As in, scientific, technological and humanitarian advances that will come with it aren't worth it? Why? I don't see a reason to fund wars and not society's intellectuals. Perhaps the populace sees it as intellectual masturbation, but the masses also enjoy Jersey Shore and American Idol.

[Anonymous No.4911579]

Obamas too busy with his neo-imperialist wars and signing police-state legislation to bother with NASA.

If we switched the budgets for NASA and the Military Industrial Complex, we'd be far more advanced right now than will be in the next 50 years.

[Anonymous No.4911585]

>>4911563
Because this is /sci/, not /x/.

[Anonymous No.4911589]

>>4911548
some dedicate their lives to it
but yeah I guess I see what you mean

[Anonymous No.4911597]

>>4911585

But I'm confused. Why is everyone so opposed to it? And why would it be paranormal? I for one don't think we'll find alien life; the benefits from space exploration to fulfill human curiosity and advance technology far outweigh the cons, such as price, which is a mere decimal percent when compared to American spending on Military.

[Anonymous No.4911610]

>>4911563

Of course we want it. But we know enough about the physics, economics, and logistics of really doing it, and we know there are a lot of dreams that just cannot be done.

>>4911597

To the people making the wars, there are profits to be had. This is why we do it. There is no profit to be had in space, since the costs are so high.

It's just human nature to not do pointless things. We've never explored just to explore. We explore to exploit.

[Anonymous No.4911617]

>>4911597
America isn't for scientific progress.
What fucking part of that is hard to understand?

[Anonymous No.4911620]

>>4911563

Because there is no economically driving reason to be smart, and culturally smart people are derided as "know-it-alls" so education and continued learning is frowned upon.

You know who goes to college just for the intellectual stimulation? Next year's dropouts.

[Anonymous No.4911625]

>>4911617

Then what countries do you think will benefit from it in the long run? I'm thinking China and perhaps Russia.

>>4911610

No, many Europeans explored simply to explore, and profit came out of the discoveries. Why don't you think exploring space would be the exact same way?

[Anonymous No.4911628]

SETI has not been publicly funded for a long time. Obama had nothing to do with SETI's money troubles.

Obama raised NASA's budget in his first budget and attempted to do so again but was blocked by house republicans. The cancellation of project Constellation did not kill NASA, it was years behind, tens of billions over budget and would have destroyed NASA if it's budget didn't increase as planned. Obama replaced this with commercial cargo and crew to the ISS and Orion MPCV for exploration. Also leaving money for landers and equipment which had long since been cancelled under constellation. It's tricky to land on the Moon without a lander.

Your facts are wrong.

[Anonymous No.4911631]

>>4911610
Americans are not smart.

\thread

[Anonymous No.4911636]

I understand that humanity is for selfish gain of worthless things and all that
but what about the research of particle collision, the Boson Higgs, and so forth?
what monetary gain could the yuros get from that?

[Anonymous No.4911638]

>>4911625

>No, many Europeans explored simply to explore, and profit came out of the discoveries.

Oh, do please name one. I would love to hear of this mythical captain who had his OWN ship and enough money to afford supplies and pay a loyal crew that would follow him to certain death on a sightseeing tour of uncharted waters since he was not sailing towards any economic goal.

Boy, i want to read about that.

[Anonymous No.4911643]

>>4911625
>>4911625
All counties can benifit from scientific progress. China, Europe, and most of the rest of the fucking world realize this. They will end up exploring space. There scientific progress and discoveries will make them dominate for centuries to come.

America is now full of dumbfucks who can't seperate fantatsy from reality, and are afraid of knowledge. America is doomed by its own stupidity.

[Anonymous No.4911640]

>>4911625
All counties can benifit from scientific progress. China, Europe, and most of the rest of the fucking world realize this. They will end up exploring space. There scientific progress and discoveries will make them dominate for centuries to come.

America is now full of dumbfucks who can't seperate fantatsy from reality, and are afraid of knowledge. America is doomed by its own stupidity.

[Anonymous No.4911645]

>>4911638

Alright, perhaps none worth noting. But they explored, none the less, and made discoveries and money.

Why not address that? Why wouldn't exploring space make money in the long run? There's minerals, endless space for expanding and other resources that couldn't possibly be thought of until we *discovered* them.

And what have you against space exploration, anyway?

[Anonymous No.4911646]

>>4911636

National pride, grants, funding, attracting more qualified workers and scientists.

None of which being "Gee, we just gotta explore!"

Not to mention that finding the higgs was only one of the goals. You can learn a lot about the universe though particle collisions, and a lot of potential applications could come from CERN.

[Anonymous No.4911657]

I was under the impression that "Space exploration" challenged scientists to think in ways they haven't before. As a result, someone would realize that they could use this particular piece of technology and apply to other mediums like medicine.

Space exploration isn't really a good term. Until the global economy get's it shit back together we'll have to be content with bottle rockets

[Anonymous No.4911658]

Science isn't on the libtard agenda

[Anonymous No.4911660]

>>4911645

>Alright, perhaps none worth noting. But they explored, none the less, and made discoveries and money.

Not if they didn't exist, which certainly seems to be the case.

>Why wouldn't exploring space make money in the long run?

It could, possibly. But right now we're looking at a 200-400 billion dollar investment with little to no returns for 20-50 years after the first stations are put in place. No company in the world is that out of their mind to do something like that. No shareholders would allow such a risky venture.

And governments are too poor and have far more pressing issues to attend to.

>And what have you against space exploration, anyway?

I don't have anything against it. I'm just pointing out the laundry list of problems associated with it. For me, one of the saddest realizations i've had is that i am not living in a time when we even have a chance of seeing these space stations and space colonies.

But i accept it. I don't have a choice.

[Anonymous No.4911662]

They do not hate Space, it is just that there are better things to spend the money on.

[Carl !!dFf2PUolAtC No.4911690]

I'm curious on what information you're basing your claims OP.


If you're referring to the retirement of the shuttle program - the Bush Administration made the decision to retire the shuttle program in 2003 following the tragic loss of the Columbia. It was signed into law in early 2004 as part of the Vision for Space Exploration (VSE) bill, which set a date of early 2010 for the last shuttle flight.

By 2009 when Obama entered office, much of the infrastructure necessary to continue maintaining the shuttle program was already in the process of being phased out and shut down. The Administration made the decision to stretch out the remaining flights as much as possible to cut down on the gap between the inevitable retirement of the shuttle and the start of its replacement. The last shuttle flight launched in July 2010, almost a year and a half later than originally planned.

[Carl !!dFf2PUolAtC No.4911691]

>>4911690
If you're referring to the Constellation Program - the shuttle's original replacement outlined in the VSE - the program was a disaster long before the decision to cancel it was made.

Originally the Constellation Program called for a manned return to the Moon by 2020. The architecture for this new program included a LEO-capable launch vehicle, the Ares I, a heavy lift vehicle, the Ares V, and a space capsule called Orion. First manned orbital flights with the Ares I and Orion were planned to begin no later than 2014, with cis-lunar a few years later and a surface mission by 2020 with the long term intention of constructing a permanent manned research outpost on the lunar surface.

The program was consistently denied necessary funding increases by Congress, eventually leading to massive cuts in NASA's science and technology programs by then-NASA Administrator Griffin. Progress on the Orion capsule was slow and coming in overbudget. Almost no progress had been made on the critical orbital launch vehicle - the Ares I, the program quickly fell behind and yet its projected budget skyrocketed, eventually forcing even more cuts from other program and, ironically, forced the indefinite postponement of work on the Ares V, the Altair lunar lander, and had forced NASA to all but officially scrap all plans for a permanent manned outpost in favor of a series of short, Apollo-esque sortie missions.

[Carl !!dFf2PUolAtC No.4911697]

>>4911691
In 2010, the Obama Administration convened the Augustine Commission to review the state of the program. The Commission determined that the program was at least a decade behind schedule. Even with a considerable increase to NASA's budget, Ares I could not have been completed earlier than 2017 or 2018, and the Ares V would not be completed until the late 2020s. Contractors working on the Ares I would have continued to increase costs of development and the ultimate cost of just building rockets would have exceeded $100 billion - a third of NASA's entire budget for the next fifteen years - while leaving little funding for any actual missions using the architecture (a similar problem facing the SLS program).

Constellation was unsustainable and the Administration made the right decision to cancel it.

[Carl !!dFf2PUolAtC No.4911702]

>>4911697
If you're referring to the current state of NASA - funding for the agency has actually increased considerably under the current administration, increasing from an average of about $15 billion a year under the Bush Administration (seeing only one notable increase in 2008) to an average of about $18 billion a year during Obama's first term (the administration originally pushed for Congress to increase the agency's annual budget to nearly $20 billion but was forced to compromise in order to get the bill passed). And while Constellation is gone, new, more pragmatic programs have taken its place - most notably the Commercial Crew Development program (CCDev).

A massive expansion of the smaller Commercial Orbital Transport Services program (COTS) started under the previous administration - the CCDev program is aimed at encouraging greater involvement from commercial spaceflight companies and greater cooperation between the public and private sector in space. Participants are awarded merit-based grants by NASA upon reaching critical milestones in the development of launch vehicles and spacecraft - accelerating the development of new launch platforms. These subsidized vehicles are an order of magnitude cheaper than the kinds of vehicles produced under cost-plus government contracts and will offer a greater variety and redundancy than programs of the past.

[Carl !!dFf2PUolAtC No.4911709]

>>4911702
Commercial spaceflight represents the gateway to establishing widespread infrastructure in orbit and beyond - commercially operated stations, refueling stations, potentially even industrial and manufacturing platforms. And as the agency makes the transition to using commercially built and operated vehicles, it will free up billions of dollars in funding for the agency to redistribute to new science missions, new technological development programs, and ultimately the construction of a proper interplanetary spacecraft that will take astronauts to asteroids, and eventually the moons and surface of Mars.


I guess the point I'm trying to get across, OP, is that the space program is fine and that if you bothered to do a little research on the subject you might know that.

[Anonymous No.4911707]

because it won't help our country in anyway. i agree it's cool and we should be doing these things, but it won't help us in anyway right now.

plus humans will never find aliens, they're out there i'm sure but i doubt we'll ever see them, i also doubt they're any more sentient or advanced than earth animals

[Anonymous No.4911767]

>>4911690
>>4911691
>>4911697
>>4911702
>>4911709
Stop! Stop! He's already dead!

[Anonymous No.4911771]

>>4911690
>>4911691
>>4911697
>>4911702
>>4911709

[Anonymous No.4911950]

>>4911690
>>4911691
>>4911697
>>4911702
>>4911709

I think ya got em Carl

[Anonymous No.4911964]

People say it's a waste of money. But then there's this fact.
<picture related

I'm not asking for that money to be reversed for either program, but shit at least have it be even 1/4 of the military budget, and you'd see some actual work get done

[Anonymous No.4911977]

>>4911964
Stop making up strawmen.

>other anons: it's a waste of money
>you: hurrrrr there are wastes of money

This isn't an argument. Whether space exploration is worth investin in or not has nothing to do with how other money is invested.

[Anonymous No.4911978]

>>4911455
>if you vote Republican you're an anti-intellectual

/pol/ plz go

[Anonymous No.4912285]

[Anonymous No.4912329]

>>4912285
Pretty much this.

Congress is very representative of the average american in that they are all retarded.