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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4828620 No.4828620 [Reply] [Original]

hey /sci/ is there some truth to this?

physics thread please!

>> No.4828625

physics doesn't have the answer.
ironically enough systems biology provides the answer.

/sci/ can't biology though

>> No.4828629
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4828629

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g
/thread

>> No.4828636

the question of free will is not falsifiable, and therefore it is not a scientific question.

>> No.4828645

well can any of you tell me which you believe in then and why?

i wanna discuss this idea more

>> No.4828653

LHC just proved that Physics is wrong anyway.

>> No.4828662

>>4828645
I believe in a near-infinite set of iterations of all possible deterministic universes, which we navigate through conscious choice and underlying stochastic processes.

not just that anything is possible, but that everything possible is necessary somewhere.

>> No.4828683

Free will can only exist when an individual force oposes an universal force. That is, "I was not told to do it, I did it because I wanted". The problem here so is not much on cause and effect, but the limits to your concepts of individuality and the external world.

If someone forces you to do something, as you don't feel that person is part of yourself, and you don't want to do it, you simply feel you have no control. But if you go inside yourself except outside, that is, when you realize you are made of electricity and atoms and particles and yadda yadda, you perceive your individuality is also a system that works as it should.

Is God or the universe choosing something for us? Is society making our choices? Are the choices ours? Are we slaves of what we are made of?

Going outwards or inwards with microscopes and telescopes is not going to answer anything on that matter, because it simply depends on where you choose to put an illusory wall that encloses what you call "I". It's a philosophical problem, not scientific.

>> No.4828690

Well what do you mean by free will? The ability to choose something? It still exists. It just looks different once we can see all the pieces.

>> No.4828694

>OP commits Fallacy of Composition

>no one on /sci/ knows any philosophy

Just cause atoms don't feel pain doesn't mean the sensation of pain doesn't exist.

Just cause atoms aren't "free" doesn't mean we can't make our own choices...

different levels of complexity give rise to different phenomena

>> No.4828697

Please adequately define 'free will', only then can we proceed in a rational manner.

>> No.4828699

>>4828694
>didn't see reference to systems biology
>doesn't understand emergent properties of biological systems to be exactly what he said

/sci/ is biologically illiterate as well, dear philosopher.

>> No.4828705

Human cells are invisible to the naked eye.
Humans are made up of human cells.
Therefore, humans are invisible to the naked eye

>> No.4828706

everything is post-ordained, which is the same as pre.

>> No.4828703
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4828703

I just got the idea that predestination is tied to science because of Dr Manhattan. a man who doesn't believe in god yet he knows everything is preordained.

is thta just the way he was written or is there some truth behing it?

>> No.4828709

Definition of free will......the choice to chose what happens in your life. not that everything is preordained and that you are just going through the motions.

>> No.4828729

>>4828705
That's a very well made fallacy.
Here's the correct version:
All individual human cells, except for the ovum, are invisible to the naked human eye.
Humans are made up of multiple human cells.
While a single cell cannot be seen, clumps of multiple cells can be seen with relative ease.

>> No.4828743

>>4828629

sam harris is a fucking idiot. our choices are not based on "randomness" or deterministic "instincts". we base them on logic, reason and our ability to perceive and interpret the world around us, that is REAL free will

>> No.4828774

>>4828703
Dr. Manhattan is a scientist's favourite guy because he can see forever and understand all the shit. Plus, he has engineer powers to put that knowledge to use in a number of ways while showing his blue butt to everyone.

Determinism is hypothetical, but assumed because of how we see science today. Basicly, we know details which are so complicated and distant from our mundane routine we feel that it is possible for us to know it all someday.

And then we imagine what would that imply and somehow someone thought that because we are determined to do something, there is no choice and no will in doing so.

I'll give you this: free will is free from what exactly? The word "free", in my opinion, implies a system which is closed, as if it was possible to make a decision on your own and without any sort of external reference. I believe in will, I don't believe in free will, which doesn't mean we don't have impulses of our own, it just means that we are essentially connected to all else.