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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4780785 No.4780785 [Reply] [Original]

What happens to us after we "die"? All sorts of scientific arguments are welcome.

>> No.4780796

The energy of your soul dissipates to become one with the universe. Conservation of energy says so. You'll also experience entropy always.

>> No.4780803

The moment before you die, you will realize.

You never lived. You where just a stone falling through the laws of physics.

>> No.4780811

Depends on your soul I guess.

My dog was reborn the day after she got killed. I went to a pet store and a puppy ran up to me and barked after I said "Rocky."

But I guess you could die forever

>> No.4780830

Has there been found any sort of proof as to what any of you have said? I've heard of >>4780796

>>4780803
Why so?

>> No.4782917

Two months ago there was this 18 year old guy in northern Germany who posted "gonna watch now all deathnote episodes in a row" on his facebook. And then he went and raped and killed a 9 year old girl. The mob tried to lynch an innocent nerdy guy after that.

>> No.4782928

>>4780785
>scientific arguments
>scientific

I don't believe it's all that useful to "scientifically" ponder the afterlife, or lack thereof. Might be Heaven and Hell, might be Valhalla, might be absolutely nothing. Nobody knows unless they're dead. But then, they don't get to tell us about it.

>> No.4782947 [DELETED] 

>>4780811
Or maybe it was named Rocky, or likes human voices, or liked your smell.

>> No.4782952

>>4780785
If you believe in souls, then you are already compromised.

Only logical Ive heard is the buddhist one. Soul or what we believe to be is the soul is nothing more than a combination of things and through convention, labeling it as such. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skandha))

If you believe this to be true, then you should understand that there is no actual death of a soul.

>> No.4782960

>>4780785
Right before death, the body releases a chemical that makes you dream, kinda like it's sharing it's last cigarette with you and saying "Shit, it doesn't look like we'll make it through this time."

Way back when, this was just for kicks, but now that people can be resuscitated, the crazy-as-fuck dreams we experience are remembered, which is why people 'come back' from heaven or hell, they were just tripping balls.

So, I guess nothing happens, but your last thought will be that something awesome is.

>> No.4782970

it will "feel" (I use that term infinitesimally loosely because you wont feel or experience it) like before you were born

>> No.4782972
File: 20 KB, 333x400, 1262222635568.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4782972

Nobody knows. Some people will talk about a soul. Some people will you tell you "it's just like before you were born!" We have no reason to believe any of that. There's really no point in talking about it at all.

>> No.4782977

>>4782972
If we can figure out that the universe was created from a black hole, we can figure out if we have a soul or not. The only people that are still in denial are those that are afraid that there is no soul.

>> No.4782981

>>4782917
sounds like that was his attempt to set up an alibi.

"look i couldn't be raping this little girl ok? i was watching deathnote all night long, just check my facebook."

a poor and not well thought out attempt.

>> No.4782991

>>4782977
where the fuck did you hear that the universe was created from a black hole and who the fuck proved it as well?

>> No.4782986

>>4782977
Even if we can figure out if we have a soul, whatever that means, we haven't yet. So, as of yet, the answer is still "nobody knows."

>> No.4782999

>>4782986
No you're incorrect. Soul can either exist or the dont. Scientific data has shown not a single proof of the existence of such a soul, so why believe they exist? Its like believing that a invisible pink unicorn exist. It makes no sense. We all know that it doesnt because we base all of our understandings on evidence/proof/demonstrated aftereffects/etc. Soul, just like an invisible pink unicorn, has no such basis for existence. If you want to keep believing in the naive concept of "nobody knows" then go ahead, just dont spread your lies in /sci/.

>> No.4783013

Usually we rot

>> No.4783020

>>4783013
Is this "we" the hand, the head, the legs? Or maybe you're referring to the concept of body that make up all those parts?

>> No.4783027

Sometimes I feel like the scientific community is retarded.

>believes that there is no god because no proof/evidence/etc
>believes that there is a soul even though there is no proof/evidence/etc

>> No.4783036

You cease to function. Then microbes devour your flesh.

>> No.4783034

>>4782999
Not sure why you're replying to me with this. My "nobody knows" was toward death. I don't believe in a soul.

>> No.4783044
File: 49 KB, 450x338, unicorn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4783044

>>4782999
I know! We all become pink unicorns when we die!

How'd I do? Huh? Eh? Hmm? Well? Yes?

>> No.4783049

>>4783027
>believes that there is a soul even though there is no proof/evidence/etc
Wait the scientific community believes that?

>> No.4783066

>>4783049
Do you know why there are hospitals? Do you know why there are medicines? It's to keep "you" alive. Science operates on the assumption that there is a "you" that needs to be nurtured and sustained. They operate on the belief that a soul exist, even though they may not say it explicitly. Unconsciously they act like they do have a soul.

>> No.4783074

>>4780785
Massive organ failure followed by decomposition (or combustion in the case of the cremated.)

>> No.4783073

>>4783066
Actually this extends to the whole society too. Everything we do is based on the assumption that there is a soul.

>> No.4783093

>>4783073
I believe this is the case of lone single sane person in a society full of insanes.

>> No.4783097

>>4783093
More like a case of mass denial

>> No.4783100

ITT: we realize how little human beings understand about the world around us

>> No.4783114

>>4783066
But its provable that there is a "you". Suppose there weren't. But you're making a supposition, a contradiction as things which don't exist do not act. Therefore you exist.

>> No.4783140

And once again OP proves that topics having anime pictures in the original post are inevitably terrible.

>> No.4783219

>>4782917
At least he didnt die a virgin and got some tight pussy

>> No.4783257

valar morghulis

>> No.4783339

I have deduced what is most likely to occur when you die. This is based on personal experience having "died" several times and been brought back to life.

Think of your body like a machine. Every part working in unison to keep you going. Suddenly a part or several parts fail. Depending on the effects of failure your death and your experience will change.

One time, I had an intense dream and then there was nothing for what seemed like only a few moments followed by awakening. Several days had gone by.

Another time, when death was more abrupt IE: nearly instant, there was an intense ringing, think shell shock effect, complete loss of any bodily control, and my vision gradually lost focus. Time itself seemed to slow down in retrospect but at the time I had almost no perception.

When you actually die, you generally lose your capacity for thought. You don't sit there and think "oh shit I'm dying" You just shut down.

This is my experience. Maybe it is different for others. Maybe it isn't.

Food for thought. What is consciousness? Isn't it the sum of the actions occurring in the brain? What happens then if we were to transfer it? To a machine or to a new brain? Assuming we could copy exactly every characteristic... does that not result in a clone rather than the same individual, only the close has no idea that they are a clone and no one else would realize this either?

When I think of it this way it seems clear that consiousness is nothing more than a steady stream of thought that once terminated can only be resumed by a fully functioning brain... which if enough time goes by isn't possible with modern science... but it is my belief that if we manage to find a way to rebuild the brain itself without altering it, then we can enjoy consciousness forever.

hmm rambled on but you get the point.

>> No.4783377

Sam Harris makes a couple of very good points on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juriylw7B0g

>> No.4783410

>>4783377

Reading the comments is painful, especially when pseudo-intellectuals circlejerk over Harris', Dawkins', Hitchens' and Dennett's ironic activism on "STOPPING ALL RELIGION."

>> No.4783416

>>4783339
I think it would be a clone
that would not think of itself as a clone
but that would not definetively be you

Lets say, some sort of teleportation, ala star trek
What appears on the other side 'is' you, as in his thoughts, feelings, behavior, but the stream of you before having every molecule broken down is gone.

In my opinion, what makes you, you, is the constancy of that stream. Even in a coma the stream is still there, even in 'fake death' its still there.

But stop that stream, and you'll be gone

>> No.4783427

>>4783339
my idea is attaching a sort of receptor in the synapse of a neuron. It could be activated by binding to very low levels of neurotransmitter, then send an electic signal to computer. This signal acts like the message sent between neurons, which could activate a long chain of neurons which would eventually activate the next neuron in the real (human) brain.

Probably impossible to do but the general idea makes sense to my high brain. fuck im stoned

>> No.4783449
File: 272 KB, 1000x750, Doctor_Mobius.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4783449

>>4783339

I forget, what is the type of person that believes that everything in the human brain can be be seamlessly moved into a computer? A reductionist? Mechanist? BAH! Seems there's a label for everything and everyone nowadays.

Anyway, the idea of transferring consciousness into a machine seems fruitless to me, unless there's some way of transferring back into your body again to record your experience. I'll take a brain in a jar for that any day.

>> No.4783458

I don't think its possible to transfer the mind into a machine.
Best bet for long mind lifespan, is keeping it in the brain, and then somehow wiring the brain into a machine, or suspended in a brain jar.

It has to be something akin to
1. not stopping depending on the brain
2. discover some way to stop neuron degeneration, or reactivate reproduction

Maintaining only the brain and getting it to achieve organic inmortality is far easier than achieving the same thing for the whole body.

Then, with the seamingly inmortal brain (in regenerative terms), put it in some container, having also devised some way to recreate external output with hardware.

But as I said, any way of inmortality, will have to keep the brain.

>> No.4783461

>>4783458
external input and output*

>> No.4783484

>>4780785
Well, you usually get buried or burned, that is, if your body is found.

>> No.4783486

You'll go back to what you were before you existed, or perceived yourself to exist. Before you remember being you. Although you're not the same person that you were then, or in any previous moment of your life. Your identity is your sense of continuity and it frightens you deeply that this sense of continuity might be broken.

The universe goes on regardless. You're a chaotic vortex in the stream of causality, that does exist for no reason other than that it can: Because evolution and entropy favours it.

>> No.4783487

>>4783458
>inmortality
You'll still die one day or the other. The universe won't last forever.

>> No.4783494

>>4783487
thats why I say seemingly inmortal, or organic inmortality..

it would be still be subject to death by disasters, lack of materials, and ultimately universal accelerating expansion, black holes, or proton decaying heh

>> No.4783498

Heaven or hell to me seem impossible, that there is nothing is the simplest assumption possible, we seem to depend too much on the universe dynamic to get away from it without losing what make us right now, if determinism is true.

Just imagine that you chose specific paths in your past life, the guy which result from that path at this same moment would likely be another 'person' than you, it would just share a part of your life 'dynamic'.

Also, the problem with hell/heaven is, how peoples are choosen, when does the scoring start? The universe seem neutral in the rule it generate, this is not.

Keep in mind heaven or hell as stated in religions would be boring too, smoothing possibilities just lead to simplifications, if good arise that is because of wrong, let a machine learn from its (or others) mistakes and it will try to fix it by morphing its algorithm, hell or heaven don't make sens.

>> No.4783500

I believe we are judged by God. Makes sense to me.

>> No.4783501

Meh, if we are simply the firing of specific neurons in the brain then when that stops, we stop. No conscience anymore.

>> No.4783502

>>4783486
shit man
that last phrase, is deep.

You're a chaotic vortex in the stream of causality, that does exist for no reason other than that it can: Because evolution and entropy favours it.

will keep it.

>> No.4783511

ITT: Autist fags who can't think for themselves.

>> No.4783514

>souls

wtf are you retarded people...?

>> No.4783516

>>4783514
>implying that electrons in your brain aren't entangled with some electrons in a far distant huge mass which has electrons entangled with anything with conciousness and we call it god

>> No.4783527

>>4783516
>implying you're not blabbering complete nonsense

>> No.4783530

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARlTV1ZGJk8

>> No.4783542

You go to the beyond where all the souls of dead humans who never could embark on the "Great Journey" waste away and can only find entertainment by eternally mind raping one another and amusing themselves with each other's darkest secrets.

However, if ever a passageway is opened, the souls could return by possessing living humans and taking control of their bodies. In addition the excess energy from possession allows them to warp and bend matter according to their will and also shoot fireballs.

>> No.4783546

>>4783530
>- But what if I want to feel superior to everyone else?
>- You don't need religion to do that. The self-righteousness was in you all along.

>> No.4783549

>>4783542
shit when I was younger I was very scared of dying because then people in heaven would all know all my deepest secrets

and I was raised to fear god
and to think in heaven, I'd do only his command (which I pictured as some sort of holy slavery)

now I don't give a fuck about religion

>> No.4783551

>>4783542
>Night dawn trilogy

>> No.4783554

Where does your windows install go when you turn off the power and smash your hard drive?

>> No.4783558

>>4783554
Heaven.

>> No.4783561

>>4783554
It's allright, I've got backups.

>> No.4783564

Nothing happens, your brain just shuts down and all thoughts cease. Its like sleeping without dreams.

>> No.4784107

>>4782960
I think about it the same way. Death I imagine is to let go. As vital systems break down you can stop caring and let go. You have nothing left to fear because you are already dead, or as good as. "It's been an honour serving with you, gentlemen. One last song."

>>4783486
It's good to be appreciated.


On the subject of the soul. Of soul; I realized during art school that the subject of art is to express impression, that there is a quality in all things, a unique platonic gestalt that may rightly be called a soul.

It's not so much a matter of copying the image on your retina as expressing the unique character of the subject, be it an inanimate rock or voluptuous female. Words that express very general concepts. Your job as an artist is to express specific nature, that which sets a thing apart from all other things and that; may in every meaningful sense rightly be called a soul.

>> No.4784129

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orch_OR

Hameroff presents a secular idea for the "soul". Kind of goofy, but interesting nonetheless.

>> No.4784137

^