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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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4778096 No.4778096 [Reply] [Original]

Can a hyperbolic universe be open? Or is it necessarily closed in one or more dimensions?

>> No.4778104

no one knows the large scale topology of the universe

>> No.4778110

>>4778104
Such knowledge isn't necessary to answer the question. This is a mathematical question.

>> No.4778118

As far as I know it's closed but this isn't really a field I know much (read: anything) about so hopefully someone else can clarify.

>> No.4778142

>>4778110
you treat science like a religion, go fuck yourself

>> No.4778146

Acording to what I've heard, the universe might me a part of a multiverse, wich means that there could be more than one universe, and they've found some places in our universe that's ocmpletly black

They believe that's another universe colliding in our universe, and thereby making dots of nothing in our dimension, I hope this helped a bit.

>> No.4778150
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4778150

And while we are on the subject, I don't understand why a hyperbolic universe is the only universe where The Big Rip would occur. I just don't see the connection between the geometry of the universe and the expansion rate of the universe.

>> No.4778155

>>4778146
It didn't, I'm afraid.

>> No.4778158

Hyperbolic and flat = open
Spherical = closed

>> No.4778154 [DELETED] 
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4778154

>>4778146
>thinking this helped a bit
ISHYGDDT

>> No.4778161

Why would it matter? I heard it has been determined the universe is flat.

>> No.4778168

>>4778158
So a hyperbolic geometry is necessarily infinite in size? Would that be true of every dimension, or might it be finite in some directions and infinite in others?

>> No.4778177

>>4778161
The ultimate fate of the universe is dependent on its geometry, so the universe's geometry is ultimately important to us.

>inb4 humans r stupid and will kill themselves, so it doent matter

>> No.4778178

Universe seems to be in a great accurate flat.

>> No.4778242
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4778242

Anyone ever see that documentary...it might've been under the name "Elegant Universe" ?

They referred to multiverse theory and gave a sort bread-slice analogy.

I'm just gonna take a backwards shot in the dark with no dart but perhaps the universe IS flat (as has been calculated) and is one of many of these bread-slices.

>> No.4778276

>>4778096
open/closed how, topologically? cause it'd have to be both under its own topology...

unless there's a cosmological meaning to open/closed?

>> No.4778277

Want me to explain my thoughts on this?

>> No.4778392

>>4778276

It has an essential meaning in general relativity. Depending on certain values, the universe can curve to itself(closed), remain flat, or curve outwards from itself like a ''negative sphere''(hyperbolic).

>> No.4778616

>>4778276
By open and closed I meant the universe being finite or infinite, so I meant cosmologically and not topologically. Sorry, I have a math minor but it still isn't my forte.

>> No.4778626

No one is talking about the multiverse. Stop bringing it up.

>> No.4778639

>>4778276
they mean compact

a sphere's surface is compact, a plane isn't

>> No.4778811

Why the fuck do people try to explain about the universe and how it works? How the universe operates and works is way beyond our comprehension and we will never ever know. It's like trying to explain a 6th sense to someone who only has 5 senses or trying to explain color to someone who is born blind. We are just a small drop in an infinitely vast ocean and this is just one of the things we will never know. Just enjoy your life and stop thinking about things that you will never find out.

>> No.4778824
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4778824

>>4778811
>the whole rant
Stop projecting your ignorance.

>> No.4778823

>>4778811


>Why the fuck do people try to explain about the universe and how it works?
>How the universe operates and works is way beyond our comprehension and we will never ever know.

Get lost, you dirty hippie.

>> No.4778836

>>4778823
>>4778824

>Implying i'm not right.
As intelligent as humans are our brains practically nothing compared to the size of the universe and it is something you people need to accept that we just can't answer these kind of questions.

>> No.4778847

>>4778836
>argument from size
The psychological implications of your post are fascinating.
But since the argumentative content is lacking (to put it nicely) I'm going to just ignore you from now on.

>> No.4778853

What an incredibly happy coincidence it would be if the epistemic boundaries of an insignificant ape-like species formed by natural selection were such that they could in principle understand everything there is to know about the universe.

Hubris.

>> No.4778858

>>4778836

You haven't studied Cosmology or any physics at all, right? The thread handled the topology of the universe, nothing more or less. It is a observable and measurable fact and it seems that its flat.

>> No.4778863

>>4778853

>epistemic

Philosopher detected. Get out.

>> No.4778875

>>4778847
You haven't actually argued against any of my points yet all you've done is comment back with shitty ad hominems. Infact i challenge anyone in this thread to point how i am wrong (i'm not)

We will never figure out how the universe operates because there is nothing we can do find out the answers. We can't exactly leave the universe and ask a higher power for the answers because it doesn't we are all just here and then that's it. All we are is just slightly evolved apes stuck on a random planet out of many billions of trillions of other planets in this one universe and the chances are there are probably billions of other universes. WE ARE NOTHING. We live and die that's it. We are just human. Stop wasting your life trying to answer things that are beyond our comprehension.

>> No.4778878

>>4778836

According to you, we can;t comprehend how cars work either, because they're way bigger than out heads. Cool.

>> No.4778881

>>4778878
see
>>4778875

Also there is a difference betweens the size of our heads and a car and the size of our heads and the universe

>> No.4778879

>>4778875

They're not beyond our comprehension, they're beyond YOUR comprehension.

>> No.4778882

>>4778875

>Stop wasting your life trying to answer things that are beyond our comprehension.

I withdraw my support from you. We should never stop trying, but we should be aware that some things might be unknowable to us, because of our inherent limits. Perseverance, curiousness, but with humility.

>> No.4778887
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4778887

>>4778875
Yes, it surely is better to sit on my ass all day long instead of trying to figure out how does the universe work. You naysayers are the reason we don't progress as quickly as we can. What makes you think we can't ever know the inner mechanisms of the universe? Because it's bigger than our brains? Don't make me laugh.

>> No.4778892

Don't deviating from the subject of the thread

>> No.4778894

>>4778882
where do you draw the line, then? Can I comprehend an elephant? a mountain? earth? sun? how many times bigger than my head must a thing be for me to not be able to understand it?

>> No.4778902

>>4778894

We don't need to draw the line exactly and we can't. That is to say, we can't know whether some fact is only temporarily unknowable to us (because we lack the technology or instruments to study it) or in principle (because of our epistemic limits). So far, we've pretty much figured out the things that you brought up, though some questions still remain of course.

>> No.4778903

>>4778875
>>4778875
>>4778875

Dude, what are you doing here? Breaking the /sci/?

Ok, Now. the thread...

>> No.4778906

>>4778902

I suppose the most effective way to figure out whether something might be unknowable to us is to try to know it. If we succeed, then it wasn't. If we don't, we should try harder just in case it isn't unknowable in principle.

Like I said, perseverance and humility.

>> No.4778920

>>4778146
>>4778146
>>4778146

multiverse I think it's a romantic inspiration because there are few reasons to exist.

>> No.4778921
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4778921

>>4778875
>saying we can't know the answers because we can't ask god
The reason I'm not arguing your points, dear honeypuff, is that there's nothing to argue against.

Your 'points' are bereft of any value.

Furthermore, the part I'm quoting in this post marks you as a christian apologetic, which undermines your already nonexistent authority even further.

And lastly, you have shown a dogmatic persistence to what you think you know, even in the face of scientific evidence, which means that even if there was something to argue about, you would not admit any deviation from your position, making the hypothetical argument moot even on the basis of entertainment.

You might be a very interesting and engaging fellow in real life, but the way you post and the position you have taken mean that I just don't like you, and I think you are a blustering idiot.

>> No.4778937

>>4778921
Reported. Enjoy your ban cocksucker.

>> No.4778941

such thing as curvature of space-time did not exist during the first seconds of the big bang. As Einstein predicted. And he started to question the topography of the space. But What ought to be space in the early stages of the big bang? Plan, spherical, parabolic?

*Planck calculated the time that the laws of relativity began to be valid after the big bang

>> No.4778951

>>4778941

what I mean:

Did the universe always has the same form? And if the change over time which would?

>> No.4778966

>>4778875
There's WAY too much wrong with your posts. It's honestly easier at this point to call you either a troll or a five year-old.

>> No.4778965

>>4778920
You don't think there's a multiverse?