Hey /sci/ faggots at /b/ don't understand basic physics. So please explain this shit with big words and possibly equations, that shit always convinces /b/. >Inb4 Portals can't move

File: 38 KB, 636x424, 1339527536167.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 15:28:46 2012 No.4771542 [Reply] [Original]

Hey /sci/ faggots at /b/ don't understand basic physics. So please explain this shit with big words and possibly equations, that shit always convinces /b/.

>Inb4 Portals can't move

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 15:29:31 2012 No.4771552 /b/ don't have the science education of junior school students? I don't think it's worth wasting our collective breaths.

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 15:55:45 2012 No.4771617

> portals that tunnel through dimensions
> basic physics

wat.

Anyway, from my limited knowledge on physics and based on the physics I've experienced palying Portal I'd explain it like this:

Basically you have two reference frames moving into each other: the invisible behind the portal and the cube. It doesn't matter if the cube moves into the portal or the portal over the cube. Therfor the velocity of the portal Vp equals the negative velocity of the cube Vc: Vp=-Vc. The cube would come out of the blue portal with the same speed the orange portal moved down. Judging by the picture case B fits that description.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 15:55:45 2012 No.4771620 File: 31 KB, 323x204, 1336329980276.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 15:59:45 2012 No.4771643 >>4771617 >place cube on ground >drop hula hoop around cube >cube flies upward with same velocity the hoop had before hitting the ground Surely you see this is retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:00:30 2012 No.4771649 >>4771643 And that's why portals can't be moved.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:00:46 2012 No.4771645 Well, since you are a stupid fuck i wont use equations... the answer is A why? Lets see the pic, the portal platform is the one moving, the cube then can't experience an acceleration as seen in B. fuck you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:01:31 2012 No.4771652 >>4771617 >>4771617 hahahaah you are so retarded it hurts my eyes

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:03:15 2012 No.4771659 It's practically 2013, who the fuck still goes on /b/? Are you a pedophile or a psychopath?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:04:46 2012 No.4771660 File: 747 KB, 248x200, 1327530116885.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4771617 >based on the physics I've experienced palying Portal Sue your school

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:05:45 2012 No.4771662

>>4771643

No it isn't. It doesn't matter if i throw the cube into the portal or move the portal over the cube wit hthe same speed.

Obviously it doesn't make sense in normal physics, but Portals as in the game don't make sense anyway, so I go with the physics of the game.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:08:16 2012 No.4771671 File: 58 KB, 771x530, 6277.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4771662 >sagging >Obviously Your stupidity is cute

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:09:15 2012 No.4771673 >>4771662 The portal and hula hoop scenario are pretty much the exact same thing. Both the hoop and the platform the portal is on transfer all of their energy into the ground, so the cube shouldn't move at all. A is correct.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:10:30 2012 No.4771679 >>4771662 it doesn't make sense at ALL you retard. The cube is not MOVING, it is just being forced through the orange portal. It has no momentum of its own and it won't keep going.

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:53:45 2012 No.4771808

>>4771679

Imagine someone sitting behind the orange portal. Now imagine instead of the piston of the portal moving down, the piston with the cube is moving up. Would the person see any difference? No. To him the cube is speeding towards him. The only reasonable explanation is the two reference frames (or the two rooms) are moving into each other with the same speed, Causing the cubes within them to keep moving with that speed due to inertia once the rooms stop moving realtive to each other.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 16:56:45 2012 No.4771813 >>4771679 How about how fast the air goes when it goes through the portal, doesn't that influence the cube.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 17:19:46 2012 No.4771882 >>4771808 Except that doesn't make any sense and there has to be conservation of momentum and force between the portals.

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 18:43:01 2012 No.4772108

First, portals can move, as seen in the Portal 2 neurotoxin scene. Secondly, portals can be defined as an opening in a surface. As stated in Portal one, "You seem to understand how portals affect momentum. Or, more precisely, how they do NOT" The only reason the cube would fly out the blue portal is if the cube already had momentum. The cube is sitting still before entering the orange portal, so it has zero momentum. When it exits the blue portal, gravity would cause the cube to drop on the floor, as shown in A.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 18:56:30 2012 No.4772130 What the fuck. Someone actually chose b and is serious about it? If troll, 11/10, jimmies rustled.

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 19:00:45 2012 No.4772141

>>4771808
>Now imagine instead of the piston of the portal moving down, the piston with the cube is moving up.

Well of course you fucking gigantic faggot. The cube would then have the momentum to move upwards in that case.

But remove all the niggercocks from your mouth and any other bodily orifice and answer me this: Is the platform moving up in the diagram?

Thank you, GTFO and learn some fucking basic logic before you even touch a keyboard again.

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 19:04:16 2012 No.4772156

I believe we would need to know the coefficient to friction on the surface the cube was originally resting on to know what would happen. Then the orange portal meets the base of the cube, the blue portal would be filled as a plane of the material the cube was originally resting on. Thus, you would have to determine whether or not gravity would cause the cube to "stick" to the surface or slide down it. You're ALL wrong.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 19:08:30 2012 No.4772177 >>4772156 You know, I never thought of that. If the edges of the cube's platforms stop the portal piston, the cube might just stay hanging out of the blue portal, leaning on the bottom of the portal.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 19:22:02 2012 No.4772241 >>4772156 The required coefficient of static friction would be 1, but that doesn't matter cuz that cube is gonna fly outta there. captcha: srontr actually

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 19:28:19 2012 No.4772260

A is if it retains its momentum magnitude relative to the destination portal.

B is if it retains is momentum magnitude relative to the sending portal.

Since we don't know which is true, there is no "logical" way to get an answer. It just depends on information we don't have.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 20:01:15 2012 No.4772378 >look from outside blue portal >see this fuck ton huge cube moving at me at the speed of light >it comes through the portal and plops on the floor when it gets out in an instant how to i fucking momentum guys?

Anonymous Tue Jun 12 20:33:01 2012 No.4772468
File: 32 KB, 462x329, portal2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Well, let's see: Portals did move in Portal 2, but they were only observed to move along the plane of the portal. A portal has never been observed to move perpendicular to the plane of the portal, as happens here, and so the behavior of a portal moving in such a fashion has also never been observed. It could be either one, or it might not be possible.

Real answer: However the programmers decide to implement the physics of a moving portal. (They could even decide something between these two extremes, an "averaging" of the momentum relative to each side of the portal, or something crazy we haven't thought of. It's all at the whims of the programmers.)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 20:36:15 2012 No.4772473 >>4771617 9/10 Why is sci so easy to troll.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 20:39:30 2012 No.4772484 >>4771542 C. It stays in the same position

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 12 20:41:45 2012 No.4772485 >>4771671 back to reddit nigger

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 04:41:52 2012 No.4773417 I say its A. Gravity keeps pulling the cube down until it is completely through the portal, creating scenario A.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 04:44:22 2012 No.4773425 >>4771643 >>4771643 >>4771643 >>4771643 >>4771643 >>4771643 >>4771643

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 04:46:22 2012 No.4773428 A. No force is exerted on the cube.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 04:54:08 2012 No.4773442 >>4773428 but it still has to leave B with the same speed at which it enters A, which is dependent on the speed of the plunger that fits over A slamming down.

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 04:58:53 2012 No.4773449

>>4773442
No. Not even close. Go back to high school.

The object would simply pop out of the portal because a portal is not a solid object, it is exactly like a hoola hoop, or if you cut a hole in a sheet of paper and sent that flying down over an object. The portal itself is effectively immaterial. The only difference is that the exit is at another point in space instead of the inverse side of the paper.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:00:52 2012 No.4773450 >>4772241 >>4773442 >>4772378 These. >>4773428 Gotta think beyond the physical limits that we have.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:02:37 2012 No.4773454 >>4772378 >"see this fuck ton huge cube moving at me at the speed of light" The cube isn't moving at you. The cube isn't what is moving at all.

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:06:37 2012 No.4773460

This is a relativity problem. There is no solution because portals introduce the problem of the distance between something and something else being both one distance and another at the same time.

I know it sounds like a cop-out to avoid saying I don't know, but the truth is that there is no answer, because portals just don't make sense from a relativity perspective.

As for what would happen in the game it just depends on how it was programmed. If it was not programmed for something like this to happen there will likely just be a collision.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:08:22 2012 No.4773464 >>4773460 Another way to say it would be that the answer is undefined.

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:29:07 2012 No.4773510

Portals are supposed to have no influence on dynamic parameters (that was said in the first game).

So my answer would be B. Because <div class="math"> M_{cube} \cdot v_{cube/portal1} = p_{cube/portal1} = p_{cube/portal2} </div>

The problem here is that <div class="math"> p_{cube/portal2} = p_{cube/ground} = 0 </div> so <div class="math"> v_{cube/portal1} = 0 </div>

That's why portals aren't supposed to move, despite what was shown in Portal 2.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:32:38 2012 No.4773516 >>4773510 note that I didn't use vectors on purpose, the direction of momentum can be modified by portals, but not their norm.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:33:22 2012 No.4773518 >>4773516 its* norm

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:45:23 2012 No.4773547

>>4773449
the fact is that the cube MUST be existing the portal with some speed. as soon as its left the portal, standard Newtonian mechanics apply, and with no force to stop the cube dead, its gonna keep on moving and fly off.
the speed at which it shoots off MUST be the speed at which the orange portal slams down, so that all of the the cube always exists at some space in 3d space (even the in in-between part where some of the cube is in one place, and some is in another)

tl;dr, you're wrong.
so dont insult another poster and tell them to 'go back to highschool' when you yourself are clearly ignorant as fuck.

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 05:51:37 2012 No.4773560

>>4773547
>the fact is that the cube MUST be existing the portal with some speed.
no, that is not a fact
the only movement that would occur is typical gravity if the exit hole is oriented differently
>and with no force to stop the cube dead, its gonna keep on moving and fly off.
luckily you don't need force to stop a non-moving object!
>the speed at which it shoots off MUST be the speed at which the orange portal slams down
>>4771643
>tl;dr, you're wrong.
>so dont insult another poster and tell them to 'go back to highschool' when you yourself are clearly ignorant as fuck.
lol

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 06:02:38 2012 No.4773592

>>4773560
lrn2 frames of reference

There is no difference between the piston moving towards the cube and the cube moving towards the orange portal, if you're looking through the blue portal. The cube approaches the orange portal at a certain speed, and exits through the blue portal at that speed. It's what >>4771808 said.

>>	Part time relish enthusiast Wed Jun 13 06:05:08 2012 No.4773594 Can someone just mod this and get it over with?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 06:06:52 2012 No.4773599 File: 16 KB, 450x328, 1339577645634.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] its clearly A unless the surface the cube sits on moves down(fast) when slammed by the upper piston

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 06:14:22 2012 No.4773615 It's A. The cube itself is not accelerating.

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 06:18:07 2012 No.4773618

It's A.
>The cube is still.
>No force is exerted on the cube.
>The portals are not made of any material as far as we know and cannot make contact with or exert a force onto the cube.
>>4772378
The portal is moving towards the cube, not the other way around.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 06:19:39 2012 No.4773621 >>4773618 look here >>4773592

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 07:14:23 2012 No.4773651 [DELETED]

>>4773592
>There is no difference between the piston moving towards the cube and the cube moving towards the orange portal, if you're looking through the blue portal.
There is, the difference being that the cube is not actually moving. There is no force on it, it simply moves through a membrane that is immaterial and transports it to another area of space.

Let us expand this. Imagine that the portal is large enough to also consume the entire pedestal that the cube is on, until the portal and frame that holds it touches the floor. Would the cube or the pedestal fly out of the portal this time?
...Or do we correctly see in our minds a cube and pedestal simply moving through a portal?
... ...So if the portal comes down around the cube alone, why do you think it would fly out?

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 07:19:23 2012 No.4773659

>>4773651
>There is, the difference being that the cube is not actually moving
>it simply moves through a membrane
Can't make up your mind I see.

>Would the cube or the pedestal fly out of the portal this time?
The cube would. the pedestal wouldn't because the pedestal is attached to the ground.

You can demonstrate that the cube will exist the blue portal at the same velocity that it entered the orange one simply by mass conservation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 07:20:23 2012 No.4773661 >>4773659 exit*

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 07:40:23 2012 No.4773696 The object being portal'd needs to have the velocity, not the portaler.

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 07:57:24 2012 No.4773718

>>4771542
Portals can only change the direction of the movement vector and it's location. They can't change the magnitute of the vector. As such the cube will simply end up standing on the sloped surface of the blue portal, perhaps slide or roll down to the position depicted in A.

Even if the portals were large enough to actually include the entire pedestal the cube stands on it would not shoot out the blue portal. It would instead rise out of it as if the blue portal was moved down over the pedestal, not imparting any kinetic energy to the pedestal itself, this would look very unnatural, but it's how it would appear.

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 08:31:38 2012 No.4773747

A student recognizes Einstein in a train and asks: Excuse me, professor, but does New York stop by this train?

Lets say we're on earth, and we've got walls. Two sturdy walls, they're at rest relative to the earth, they can move without friction (disregard air-resistance, chickens, and are all-round nice circular fellows), and if we so desire we can stick em into the ground well enough that they wont move for damn near anything. Lets call em Alice and Bob. Bob has a tophat resting on him, Alice doesn't.

We give Alice a good shove and accelerate her up to a mildly moderate speed, relative to Bob and the earths frame of reference, and with a heading that puts her on a collision-course with Bob. It will come as no great surprise that (bar energies so great that Alice knocks Bob over) Bobs hat doesn't leave its owners top.

Now lets reverse the setup, and have Bob make his way towards Alice (making sure of course, that his trusted hat is properly fastened during the speeding-up). Now what happens? Lo and behold, the hat falls off!

Thus, A.

The important thing isn't the cubes momentum relative to the orange portal, it's the cubes momentum relative to the blue portal.

People get caught up in the fact that one frame of reference moving at a constant speed is as good as any other, which is true, and that if you find yourself in such a frame of reference there is nothing you can do _in that frame of reference_ to distinguish it from any other. But that doesn't mean that you can't say anything about the relationship between two frames of reference that meet up over a nice cup of tea.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 08:34:54 2012 No.4773751 >>4772260 >>4772260 >>4772260 >>4772260 >>4772260 >>4772260 >>4772260 >>4772260 >>4772260

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 08:38:53 2012 No.4773754

>>4773560
>no, that is not a fact
it is actually
for the cube to even be able to exit the portal, it MUST be moving in the direction that the portal is facing (up and to the right) and with a none zero speed. the cube doesnt just appear next to the second portal, and then drop down. there is a (short) time that it takes to emerge from the second portal, and it MUST be moving into that position. it IS a moving object, and a moving object wont just stop dead if there is no force, so it'l continue moving in that direction for a while. there is no friction, it's only gravity that'l make it arc and then fall on the floor next to the portal, but it still doesnt just drop straight down, the cube has speed, and it has weight, therefore it has momentum.

>drop a hula hoop on the cube.
totally different scenario.
here, the second portal is completely still, and its the cube thats moving out of it, not the portal that is moving to uncover a stationary cube.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 09:00:27 2012 No.4773784 >>4772130 People saying /b/ are trolling.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 09:02:27 2012 No.4773786 >>4773784 People saying B are trolling. not /b/

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 09:17:38 2012 No.4773796 >>4771813 Wouldn't that mean you can place a portal on a fan blade and then on the other portal, its like some wind tunnel?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 09:20:08 2012 No.4773799 What if you aimed one portal pointing up and then dropped another portal onto yourself, wouldn't you be trapped in the middle of the dimensions? Wonder what that shit would look like.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 09:26:23 2012 No.4773806 The can't touch the cube, so the cube doesn't get pushed by the portal. So it's A. Stop saying it's B.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 09:28:53 2012 No.4773807 >>4773799 looks like another reason portals cant be moved, thats like accidentally the whole thing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 09:45:38 2012 No.4773827 >inb4 Portals can't move. ....but they can't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 11:39:09 2012 No.4773984 >>4773827 >he hasn't played portal 2

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 11:55:08 2012 No.4774012 >hula hoop analogy THE BOX IS MOVING RELATIVE TO THE HULA HOOP stop saying the box doesn't move

Anonymous Wed Jun 13 13:36:24 2012 No.4774212

There is a speed at wich the box goes through the portal, speed is distance divided by time, if the portal covers a box of one centimeters in length in one millisecond, than the box will come out of the other portal in it's full one centimeter glory in one millisecond time. So the speed would be 10 meters per second.
>It's definitely option b because the box doesn't teleport all at once.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 13 13:43:27 2012 No.4774231 >>4774212 lolol I trolled you

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/sci/ - Science & Math