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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4759523 No.4759523[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I saw a show about Neuroplasticity on tv last night
Is it true that the reason I am not an amazing muscian, student or even socializer is because of laziness, alone?

Anyone have any lectures on this subject that I can listen to, books I can read or videos I should watch?

>> No.4759557

Either laziness or a poorly developed critical eye to your own progress. If you can't figure out what you're doing wrong, you can't improve no matter how much you practice. Just look at Deviantart.

No wait. Don't.

>> No.4759562

>>4759523
Read the bit in Malcom Gladwell's Outliers where he talks about 10,000 hours.

In fact, here it is online: http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/outliers_excerpt1.html

>> No.4759571

>>4759562
I've read Outliers
Malcom Gladwell's my favourite author.
On this show they were basically saying a failing student can become a straight A student with hard work and rewiring their brain(copying exactly what other A students are doing). They were implying that peoples results are more nurture than nature.

>> No.4759576
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4759576

>>4759571
Same thing.

I taught myself to draw using MS paint in my spare time over two and a half years. I started off REALLY sucking, but kept plugging away at it until I was happy with what I was producing. If I cared more I could probably learn colors and shading and move on to better art tools.

There was no talent involved, just willing myself not to stop.

Here's Ira Glass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI23U7U2aUY

>> No.4759579

>>4759576
Oh cool I love Ira Glass
Nice paint

>> No.4759581

>>4759571
The brain is a muscle. Use it and it gets stronger.

>> No.4759584

Well, to get good at anything you sort of...have to go through painful learning experiences. The trick is to not realize that they are painful and to distract yourself by refocusing attention. Look up "marshmallow secret self control". Maintaining focus and attention, and understanding motivation...don't call yourself "lazy" if you haven't mastered them because these are difficult, tricky subjects that are not at all easy.

Try to get good at bzflag to see what it is like. If you practice, then you can get pretty good in less than 20 hours. It is a difficult game, and you have to live through a lot of disappointment and frustration. Eventually by force of will your reactions get better, your intuition clearer. You learn how to cooperate. Your brain will adapt.

Try to learn PUA theory. Or at least just read about it. Getting over painful rejection, and numbing yourself to rejection is one of the core values, and it is, frankly, one of the few aspects of the PUA system that has broad applicability to other areas of life. If you're motivated by sex (some are, some aren't) then the motivation to get better at PUA is built-in. Not so with the vast majority of human activities such as playing the violin...the deep love of music that sustains the violin player is not universal.

>> No.4759591

How can I vastly improve my shit short term and especially working memory?

>> No.4759589

>>4759571

Im compelled to agree that many people could improve their academic record through hardwork however I get the feeling they're not just saying someone who would drop out could be a honor student or something they made the leap to saying they could be like Einstein I'm guessing didn't they? In this case to advance science it comes down far more to having unique circumstances and ways of thinking to develop unique solutions and ideas that lead to these advances on top of applying a great deal of effort.

>> No.4759597

>>4759591
If you want short term solutions you're in the wrong thread.

>>4759589
This. "Talent" doesn't exist, but "luck" absolutely does.

>> No.4759601

>>4759591

Working in other senses is supposed to help with that never tried it though. Like when studying math you can add in the smell of lavender or something while doing it to help remember how you approach a certain problem.

>> No.4759608

They were focusing on Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and how stroke victims rewire the brain to learn to move and talk correctly again.

Apparently they are discovering that the brain is plastic and malleable. They even cured many people of anxiety, schizophrenia and phobias all with thought therapy, ignoring the bad thoughts and learning to highlight positive thoughts. They found that it physically changed the brain.

>> No.4759610

>>4759597

I fail to see how you can define the way someone came to a solution as luck rather than a talent. Sure you can describe possessing the thought pattern to do it when others couldn't as luck but not the actual thing.

>> No.4759619

>>4759610
Exposure to the right set of ideas and information before anybody else makes the particular cognitive leap.

Einstein was a genius, absolutely, but there were many men just as brilliant as he. He just happened to be the one who thought up the right ideas at the right moment. It's a little harder than winning the lottery, mind you, but it's not like we wouldn't have had relativity if we didn't have Einstein, or Calculus without Newton, or geometry without Euclid.

>> No.4759623

>>4759619
I would like to call it Creativity rather than Luck.

>Imagination is more important than knowledge. ~Albert Einstein

>> No.4759635

The most important thing for physics, math, etc, is being able to visualize.

>> No.4759637

>>4759623
Einstein wasn't more creative than Bohr, Hilbert, or von Neumann. He would be the first to admit that he was considerably less so than the lattermost of those three.

He did happen to think up a few ideas before them, though.

>> No.4759643
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4759643

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stu_Ungar

imagine if this guy got into science

>> No.4759644

Is it possible to gain an eidetic memory?

>> No.4759647

>>4759643
"Despite having won an estimated $30 million during his poker career, Ungar died with no assets to his name. Friend and fellow poker player Bob Stupak took up a collection at Ungar's funeral to raise funds to pay for the services."

>> No.4759652
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4759652

>>4759647
>He died penniless and in debt in January, 1943.

>> No.4759653

>>4759652
Tesla didn't spend it all on cocaine.

>> No.4759658

>>4759653
you're such an autistic fuckwit

>> No.4759659

No. Someone dumb working hard and gets himself to genius level? That never happens.

>> No.4759664

>>4759659
We don't mean dumb and dumb people wouldn't be interested in this.

I guess we could mean those with cognitive weaknesses

but you can go way now, we aren't going to listen to you faggot

>> No.4759665

So, and I'm going to talk like a psychologist here so you know I have no clue what I'm actually talking about, from this thread it seems that any healthy person can learn anything given enough time and effort, and what we perceive as talent is in fact just when someone learns a way of thinking that they can apply really well to the context.

So the challenge for us is to learn a way of thinking to do whatever it is we study, and then work hard at our field. And if no one knows we did this, if they assume we were born with this, then they will say that we have talent, yes?

>> No.4759672

>>4759665
Exactly.

"Lack of talent" is an excuse people use to justify the fact that they just don't care enough to keep trying.

>> No.4759676

>>4759672
Then I better get off 4chan before I find another interesting thr

OH LOOK AT THAT THREAD!
>>4759520

>> No.4759680

>people confusing talent with savant

talent is basically you are just slightly naturally better at something

as long as you aren't retarded, don't worry about it.
also take breaks and let your subconscious do the work

>> No.4759707

Interesting thread guys.

Failed college student here, considering I went to a gymnasium I have no other options then to go back. By college I mean university. Thats how it work in europe.

Anyways from what I've been reading no one really posted any link on how to improve learning. And I don't mean the memorizing kind. I mean the technical kind. What do you guys recommend I do? Should I just solve math and physics problems over and over or it there another alternative?

Electrical Engineering student here.

>> No.4759771

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3TQopnNXBU

>> No.4759775

>>4759707
yes. if you really want it you should become obsessed with it. make goals etc and make sure you finish them. when you get something wrong, do it another 20 times etc and learn why you went wrong.

>> No.4759846

>>4759775
Learning is really that simple.

Be sure to reward yourself somehow afterwards so you can cognitively and unconsciously tie solving the problems to feeling better.

Don't hate yourself for failing, demand to succeed that much more.

>> No.4759923

Better way to describe it:

Genetically some of us have brains 'wired' better then others for certain problems.

the only problem is that too far one-way (say higher math/NVR ability) results in (usually) a significant arrestment in other areas (photographic memory usually means a complete lack of imagination and the ability to use 'insight' other then 'it was like that when 4 ducks flew past the window at 10:23am')

I'm above average, i know my IQ is high but one of my smartest teachers gave me the following warning:

Persistance can out do even the greatest of natual talent.

this is usually the reason that the 'underdog' wins, because he's been sweating his balls off while skippy has been day dreaming. If the natural talent also worked his/her balls off (yes, the irony of that statement amuses me) then it would be a white-wash.

>> No.4760046

>>4759576
Is that Tony Stark!?!? That guy's a genius!

>> No.4760465

>>4760046
no

>> No.4760510

>>4759923

Saying that photographic memory leads to being uncreative is a pretty big claim to make unless you have the evidence to back it up.

William Sidis was a genius by every meaning of the word and he had photographic memory. Made his own language and wrote about a variety of subjects.

>>4759707
If math is your problem, just do tons of practice problems. Most problems have a "trick" to them and it's about seeing the variety of tricks that they might throw at you.

>> No.4760891

it's not solely attributable to laziness, dumbass. there are many environmental and genetic influences that impact your ability to improve in certain ways. however, many of these downfalls can be compensated for my mental exercises and practice.

>> No.4761319

OP, yes

>> No.4761911

>>4760891
>genetic influences

research the studies. they are showing that that is no longer a good excuse.

>> No.4761967

>>4759652
omg he died without a penis?

>> No.4762012

>>4760510

quite so, i can't remeber if it was sibelius ashkenazy og sergei rachmaninov but he had photographic memory (being able to replay a song only hearing it once) and became a great composer of music.


effort trumps all talent only shortens the distance.

>> No.4762016

>>4762012

>can't remeber if it was sibelius ashkenazy og sergei rachmaninov.

it was Sergei.

>> No.4762053

Check out this guys memory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVqRT_kCOLI

>jelly