/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4727191]

What information could one obtain about a species' evolutionary development/biological structure by the quantity of chromosomes in a respective organism?

[Anonymous No.4727197]

[Anonymous No.4727205]

[Anonymous No.4727217]

[Anonymous No.4727223]

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727229]

quantity of chromosomes alone tells you jack shit.

[Anonymous No.4727233]

[Anonymous No.4727253]

>>4727229
thank you...

my parents sent me to a very conservative christian high school, and after the first two years of university, i finally saw through the bullshit and am trying to catch up science-wise

i'm definitely behind in my knowledge of evolutionary biology, and would like to catch up.

apologies if my questions come off as retarded

[Anonymous No.4727254]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_chromosomes_do_vampires_have_in_the_book_twilight

[Anonymous No.4727257]

[Anonymous No.4727258]

>>4727229
HURR DURRR

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


It largely depends on the organism. For many species of berries and other fruits, plants which have more duplicate copies of chromosomes tend to be more robust and produce larger plants with larger berries. Transcription of more proteins -> larger size, mainly due to the simplicity of the plant genome.

For humans and mammals, though, it's usually lethal.

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727264]

>>4727253
no its fine, chromosome number varies a lot between species, but high chromosome number doesnt automatically mean high complexity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisms_by_chromosome_count
…
…
…humans have 46 chromosomes (thats 23 pairs)
wheras a type of fern, Ophioglossum reticulatum, has 1440, and fruit flys have 8.

humans are more complex than both, by far, and yet they're still between the two in terms of chromosome count

[Anonymous No.4727265]

>>4727258
aha!
thank you as well.
any reading material you would suggest?

[Anonymous No.4727276]

>>4727264
yes, i've already browsed those lists.

hence the question, it was obviously not really a question of complexity of the organism, i though it might have something to do with the time the species had survived on earth (fern with almost 1500 chromosomes) or the degree of adaption to a specific environment

[Anonymous No.4727289]

>>4727254
oh...sweet jesus

[Anonymous No.4727300]

>>4727258
does this imply that plants with more chromosomes are higher in protein content?

again, apologies for my ignorance. i feel like a toddler when it comes to biology - curious and clumsy.

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727302]

>>4727276
>i though it might have something to do with the time the species had survived on earth

well all species share a common ancestor, so they've all been alive for the same amount of time, and chromosome count is free to evolve either up or down.

[Anonymous No.4727303]

[Anonymous No.4727309]

>>4727302
yes, but for what reasons would an organism lose or gain a chromosome?

[Anonymous No.4727312]

[Anonymous No.4727318]

[Anonymous No.4727319]

[the derevative of infinity !!eCxMbREoOwH No.4727320]

Thanks for all the cat gifs.

[Anonymous No.4727329]

>>4727320
my pleasure.

[Anonymous No.4727332]

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727335]

>>4727309
mutation
down syndrome is when they've randomly mutated an extra chromosome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
"Down syndrome or Down's syndrome, also known as trisomy 21, is a chromosomal condition caused by the presence of all or part of an extra 21st chromosome.[1]"

downers are infertile, but if they wernt, or say there was some other mutation that affected chromosome number without inducing infertility, then they could go on to have kids, and spawn a new race of people with a different chromosome count
in fact IIRC some other species of apeshave 48 chromosomes, while we have 46. humans have a chromosome that is suspected to be 2 old chromosomes joined together, which explains why we have slightly fewer, and one of our chromosomes is very large compared to most others)

(chromosomes come in pairs, so we have 23 pairs instead of 24, after the mutation)

i did have a pic of this, but ive lost it. if i find it i'll post it.

[Anonymous No.4727337]

another question: do you think that the/a future evolutionary derivative of humans have more/less chromosomes?

or would this imply that the number of chromosomes improves the organism?

[Anonymous No.4727341]

>>4727335
yes, i understand that the varying number is caused by a mutation, but to what end?

example, when whales no longer needed their legs, was that a result of a lost or gained chromosome, or was there no correlation at all?

[Anonymous No.4727347]

>>4727335
and thank you very much for your response

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727345]

>>4727335

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727351]

>>4727341
chromosomes arnt 'lost' as in, completely gone and all that information is just removed.
as with my pic above, chromosome count is reduced if 2 chromosomes join together, but obviously the information isnt lost

or if a chromosome duplicates, so you have 2 copies, you have an extra chromosome, but no extra information yet.

and most mutations dont affect chromosome count at all.

probably no correlation at all.

[Anonymous No.4727358]

>>4727345
wasn't this in a courtcase in virginia (?) that 'intelligent design' was just masked creationism, and had no backing scientific evidence, and this chromosome was used as evidence to prove the legitimacy of evolution?

i really appreciate you posting/looking for
the file... saved

[Anonymous No.4727366]

>>4727351
so the differing number in chromosomes also factors in those that were combined...

does this have anything to do with the 'reptilian, mammal, human' levels of the brain?

[Anonymous No.4727370]

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727374]

>>4727358
i dunno, ive heard of the court case, but no details.

as if evolution actually needs proving tho, thats laughable
if evolution didnt happen, then bacteria couldnt evolve resistance to antibiotics, and we wouldnt have all these different dog breeds.

of course, dog breeds arnt natural selection, its guided evolution, by humans. which explains why it goes a lot faster, but even in just a few decades you can see a startling level of change. denying evolution just seems silly nowadays, especially seeing as even though it is usually slow, we've had millions of years for it to happen

pic related, the words largest and smallest dogs, both sharing a common ancestor (wolf).

[Anonymous No.4727375]

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727383]

>>4727366
im not sure, sorry.

[Anonymous No.4727384]

>>4727374
yes well, much of the american south is ridiculous.

'jesus made the earth in 6 day, and my daddy weren't no monkey'

and thank you again for pointing me in the right direction, i'll be sure to post some idiotic questions again after i've gone through some reading material

[Anonymous No.4727395]

>>4727383
oh no problem, you never know if you never ask

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727415]

wow, you sure do have a lot of cat gifs

[Anonymous No.4727422]

>>4727415
yes... yes i do.
not sure to be ashamed or proud

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727428]

>>4727422
proud, definitely
i'll save some of the funny ones, thanks
:)

[Anonymous No.4727431]

[Anonymous No.4727443]

>>4727428
please do!
i figure if i'm asking for information, the least i can do is provide some fleeting, shallow entertainment

here's a few funny ones for you...

[Anonymous No.4727448]

[Anonymous No.4727457]

[Anonymous No.4727464]

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727466]

>>4727443
oh wow, i fucking love cats

[Anonymous No.4727474]

>>4727466
who's the woman in your pictures?

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727478]

>>4727474
http://www.youtube.com/user/factvsreligion

shes a youtuber that im a fan of

[Anonymous No.4727484]

>>4727478
will give it a few views, thanks!

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727495]

>>4727484
her videos are mainly like atheist videos
she argues with christfag youtubers and shit like that, ad also has a couple of vids about vegetarianism, and some other general stuff, youtube drama, and roadtrips and things.

[Anonymous No.4727502]

>>4727495
your personal internet obsession/ guilty pleasure entertainment?

[Anonymous No.4727517]

>>4727502
Polar bears, all cuddly when they're young, then it's all "RRAAAGGHHH GONNA EAT UR FACE AND PISS ON THE REMAINS" when they hit puberty.

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727514]

>>4727502
i quite like the topic of religion/atheism.
i mean i dont believe in any religion and i never have, but its interesting to just think about, and to have logical arguments against it, you know?

[Anonymous No.4727522]

>>4727514
you should visit christianchat.com sometime...
very open chat, fundamentalist christians.

pic is a screencap i took ....

[Anonymous No.4727531]

>>4727522
one of the users had asked if anal sex was a sin, i replied with 'it's neither forbidden nor commanded in the bible'

here's another screenshot.

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727541]

>>4727522
lol, i'll be banned within 5 minutes.
christfags always fucking hate me

[Anonymous No.4727542]

>>4727522
a user asked if anal sex was a sin, i replied with 'it's neither commanded not forbidden in the bible'

[Anonymous No.4727543]

>>4727514
>topic of religion/atheism
>religion vs atheism
>implying all religions are theistic
>implying all atheists aren't religious

Have you ever heard of Buddhism? God, you're fucking retarded. Also:

>thinking that religion is simply a set of beliefs

[Anonymous No.4727547]

>>4727415
And you sure do have a lot of pictures of the same ugly girl

[Anonymous No.4727548]

>>4727541
i don't understand why for many people, feelings > logic. sure, heaven may make you feel warm fuzzies, but that doesn't mean it's true.

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727574]

>>4727548
that alone i wouldnt have a problem with, if they just kept their false beliefs to themselves.
if they try to use it to force stuff on everyone else then its a problem.

and they do
crusades, witch-hunts, attacking the theory of evolution, hating gays because their fictional god does, 9/11, holocaust, northern island wars, israel and palestine conflict, etc, all to do (at least in part) with religion.

[Anonymous No.4727585]

>>4727574
All of those are either located in the past or have their reasons in economics. Your world view is infantile and inappropriate.

[Anonymous No.4727596]

>>4727585
as opposed to them having taken place in the future?
i'm sorry, but i thought i was the most ignorant person on /sci/.

i'm deleting this thread before it gets too absurd

[SAGEGOESINALLFIELDS No.4727600]

Varying numbers of genes depends on what happened on evolutionary scale in the past.
So much is clear at the moment.
Now, reasons for certain gene duplications or gene adding can have quite a bit of reasons.

Mutation in the genome through random events like faulty mitosis, meiosis, (retro)transposons, viruses, ..
I believe the (retro)transposons are one of the biggest factor in changing up the DNA, since they can enter almost any section of the genome and fuck shit up. This can lead to a creation of a new gene (random process, if the organism survives with this new gene, and (a)functional protein, it will keep on passing on that newly founded gene.

I also think (but don't quote me on this) sometimes organisms duplicate certain genes because they simply need the amount of extra protein to survive. Certain stress signals would be most likely to induce these duplications.

[Anonymous No.4727604]

>>4727596
As opposed to them still having relevance today, you moron.

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727605]

>>4727585
well, ALL are located in the past, yeh. some still continue (hatred of gays, attacking evolution etc)
and i realise that there are economic reasons for some of these as well, which is why i put
>(at least in part)

>Your world view is infantile and inappropriate.
nope, the world really would be a lot better without religion.

[SAGEGOESINALLFIELDS No.4727608]

>>4727366
Not only do you have differing amount of chromosomes, but you also have to consider the genome length. In evolution you have a constant rate of mutation through processes given above. This means that the genome continuously changes at random parts of the genome, with a wide variety of end results (functional gene becomes non functional, it makes a different protein, it doubles, ..)
Some organisms are even polyploid because of certain genome duplications or cross breeding (certain plants and fishes)

As an example I can give you the human hemoglobine genes.
You have an alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon and dzeta chain, some of these are through to have duplicated and changed over time. All these chains have a different role in the development and maintenance of a human.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin#Genetics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin#Types_in_humans

Brain development is hard to explain through these things because strict temporal expression and modulation over time also factors in here.. don't know enough to talk about this.

[Anonymous No.4727611]

>>4727605
Yeah sure, because a minority of retarded amerifats not liking gays and not believing in evolution are such a great threat to humanity. </sarcasm>

Grow the fuck up and face some real problems.

[EK !EKFnQG0UBo No.4727618]

>>4727611
it's quite a big problem, actually.
most terrorism has some sort of religious aspect to it, and gays/'witches' are still murdered in some parts of the world.

[Anonymous No.4727616]

>>4727608
thank you!
>>4727604
i very much hope that you're not serious...

good night all! have a great week!