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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 98 KB, 634x741, Shouryya Ray.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723001 No.4723001 [Reply] [Original]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/german-teen-shouryya-ray-solves-300-year-old-mathematical
-riddle-posed-by-sir-isaac-newton/story-e6frfkui-1226368490521
>A GERMAN 16-year-old has become the first person to solve a mathematical problem posed by Sir Isaac Newton more than 300 years ago.

>Shouryya Ray worked out how to calculate exactly the path of a projectile under gravity and subject to air resistance, The (London) Sunday Times reported.

>The Indian-born teen said he solved the problem that had stumped mathematicians for centuries while working on a school project.

[...]

>Newton posed the problem, relating to the movement of projectiles through the air, in the 17th century. Mathematicians had only been able to offer partial solutions until now.

>If that wasn't enough of an achievement, Mr Ray has also solved a second problem, dealing with the collision of a body with a wall, that was posed in the 19th century.

>Both problems Mr Ray resolved are from the field of dynamics and his solutions are expected to contribute to greater precision in areas such as ballistics.

>> No.4723010

>German

>> No.4723014
File: 9 KB, 480x360, Jacob Barnett 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723014

Thats cool and all, but he's still no Jacob Barnett.

>> No.4723028

>>4723014
inb4 ban/100+ responses

>> No.4723032

Okay can someone post how those problems look?
>If that wasn't enough of an achievement, Mr Ray has also solved a second problem, dealing with the collision of a body with a wall, that was posed in the 19th century.
that doesn't seem very hard

>> No.4723037
File: 242 KB, 200x256, impressed.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723037

I'd like to read the exact stating of the problems

>> No.4723041

> Both problems Mr Ray resolved are from the field of dynamics and his solutions are expected to contribute to greater precision in areas such as ballistics.
Nope. While the solution is nice in its ivory tower theoretical capriciousness that characterizes most of modern mathematics, the practical world long ago switched to computer-based models which are arbitrarily precise and arbitrarily general. So good job kid, may somebody 100 years from now find an application for your, erm, "genius", and put it under an obscure footnote where it deserves to be.

>> No.4723061

>>4723001
I give kudos to this guy, he's already helped advance mankind in some capacity and is clearly mathematically gifted.

When jacob barnett actually does something that produces a real-world effect, then I'll start caring. Until then, he's a /sci/-specific troll bait.

>> No.4723064

This is actually pretty interesting. I just finished Classical Mechanics a few weeks ago and one of the first big problems we tackled in the semester was ballistic motion with air resistance - which we had to solve numerically since in general the differential equations involved don't have analytical solutions.

Does anyone know they've published the solutions yet?

>> No.4723071

>>4723068
why not?

>> No.4723068

>>4723061
> he's already helped advance mankind in some capacity
No, he hasn't.

>> No.4723076

>tfw 100% of sci will never amount to anything in life and will never do anything near as grand as what this kid has done

>> No.4723077

>>4723071
Why yes? Mankind has not needed an analytical approach to this problem for decades.

>> No.4723079
File: 51 KB, 396x385, sadfrog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723079

godamn he is 16, he look like 30

>> No.4723083

>>4723068
He came up with an exact solution to a previously unsolvable differential equation.

Okay, yeah, it's not sustainable fusion power or a room-temperature superconductor... but it's still a contribution.

>> No.4723085

>>4723077
>why yes?

i'm not saying he has. i want to know why you think he hasn't

my own view is "i don't know"

>> No.4723086

>>4723083
> but it's still a contribution.
To the profits of academic publishers, yes.

>> No.4723087
File: 106 KB, 608x580, 1337536880799.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723087

>>4723041
>all that jelly
Hahaha

How does it feel to know a 16yo kid barely in HS has contributed more to the field of Sci&Math than you ever have and ever will in all your years of life?

>> No.4723088

>>4723077
Just because something CAN be solved numerically doesn't mean there's not merit in coming up with an analytical solution.

>> No.4723090

What was the riddle in the first place?

>> No.4723091

>>4723077
>needed
why is need the definition of advancing mankind

i would have thought it most definitely isn't. as all we need is food and shelter etc

>> No.4723097

>>4723091
> why is need the definition of advancing mankind
If something has no practical applications or doesn't offer better practical solutions, the only thing it advances is the ego of entitled academics living in their echo chambers.

>> No.4723102

>He said his father instilled in him a "hunger for mathematics" and taught him calculus at the age of six.

fucking hell I wish I was this lucky

>> No.4723104
File: 15 KB, 270x290, rö.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723104

>>4723079
Goddamn he's German but he looks like Indian

>> No.4723107

So basically he solved analytically the equation :

(d²x/dt²) = A + B.(dx/dt)²
where A and B constants if he supposed the acceleration of gravity constant, or A a function of x if he took into account the variation of gravity with height.

There are 3 differential equations to solve for each orthogonal direction but they are all of this form

>> No.4723108

>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723037
>>4723090
>>4723090
>>4723090
>>4723090
>>4723090
>>4723090
>>4723090
>>4723090
>>4723090
>>4723090

>> No.4723114

In science, an analytical solution, if one exists, is almost always preferable to a numerical solution.

A numerical solution is just an approximation... a really good approximation, maybe, but still just an approximation.

>> No.4723117

>>4723107

Probably he didnt assume a point mass.

>> No.4723122

>>4723114
The practical world, fortunately, thinks otherwise.

You can keep the millionth digit of pi to yourself, thank you very much.

>> No.4723125

>dell

>> No.4723128

>>4723107
Even I can solve this equation analytically. The solution is
<div class="math">x(t)=-\frac{1}{2B} \ln\left(\frac{B}{A} \left(c_1 \sin(\sqrt{AB}t ) + c_2 \cos(\sqrt{AB}t) \right)^2 \right)</div>

>> No.4723131

>>4723122

Pleb.

>> No.4723132

Wow, there are some huge fucking retards in this thread...

I'm not even a math person and I understand his accomplishment and the impact of his work.
He found a method of getting a more accurate answer for projectile motion under more realistic conditions. This will help with ballistics analysis, computer simulations of projecticle motion and I imagine, NASA will have some uses for it.

Quit being jelly and just objectively appreciate the contribution.

>> No.4723135

awesome now our weapons will be even more accurate! bwahahahaha!

>> No.4723143

>>4723132
> getting a more accurate answer
Except that nobody has needed infinite accuracy in this field for a long time now.

>> No.4723147

>>4723143

Mathematics isn't "do we need this?" it's "can we do this?"

>> No.4723154

>>4723117
The title on his computer says : Analytic solution of two unsolved particle dynamics problem.

Seems like point mass to me.

>> No.4723155

>>4723147
Good for you. We'll be working on space travel and modelling weather using arbitrarily close approximations while you keep pondering whether pi is a normal number.

>> No.4723156

Attention dumbfuck CS majors

this isn't about accuracy, having an analytic solution is about using the results in further derivations. Not freshman plug and chug work.

now go back to >>>/g/ where you belong

>> No.4723158

how do you retards think computer simulations work? its alot better to be able to program in antithetical functions then use it further than to run some numeric algorithm to find it. especially if you have hundreds of things that you need to do this with. we dont have infinite time to run simulations for specific situations.

>> No.4723159

>>4723104
Wow, it's almost like he was born in India!

Read the fucking article fuckface.

>> No.4723160

Nice work. Set the lad to work on Fermat's Last Theorem without further delay

>> No.4723161

>>4723160

uh

>> No.4723162

>>4723158
spell check did a number on that.

>> No.4723163

What a guy

>> No.4723164

>>4723158
I can speak for all the detractors of this thread, but if an analytical solution has a clear practical application that works, or promises to work better than an approximation, then I have nothing against it.

That isn't the case here.

>> No.4723167

I think the pissy comp sci fags are missing the larger point - finding analytic solutions to these problems may open the door to finding analytical solutions to other problems... problems where numerical analysis may not be an accurate enough approximation or may not even be an option.

>> No.4723168

If he assumed constant vertical gravity the problem is actually 2 dimensional in the gravity-velocity plane. I'd really like to see the explicit solution

>> No.4723171
File: 169 KB, 755x755, 1336835326184.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723171

>someone makes a contribution to physics
>/sci/ spends most of its time discussing how trivial that they think the contribution is instead of discussing the contribution itself

this board

>> No.4723175

>>4723171
That's what happens when you put too many insecure mentally unstable nerds in one place.

>> No.4723178

Our weapons are already accurate as fuck. What could computer simulations do with this equations he has solved that could benefit mankind in any way?

>> No.4723180

i think he's solving an explicit function to an implicit function x(t), where x is displacement
which describe the motion of a sphere which obeys Stokes' Law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes%27_law

>> No.4723182
File: 182 KB, 2000x1331, 1MAT_67_download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723182

>> No.4723184
File: 28 KB, 500x413, 1331959099463.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723184

>mfw when I work with his father
>mfw I know about his childhood ...

>> No.4723186

>>4723171
just that those who aren't serious is more motivative to reply and outnumber those who are serious

>> No.4723189

>>4723182

It would be cool if someone could explain how this equation works.

>> No.4723188

>>4723182
But we still don't know what the FUCKING. PROBLEM. WAS.

>> No.4723190

>>4723182
Wow, that's... that's actually quite elegant. Do we know how he went about deriving it?

>> No.4723191

>>4723188
Well I suppose the picture can help you figure it out

>> No.4723197

>>4723188
Oh my god you fucking nigger, it's not like Newton said "What's 1 + 1 equal to?", he probably said something like "I wonder how one would mathematically describe the motion of a projectile in these conditions?"

>> No.4723196

>>4723182
> nigger couldn't even cut the paper properly

>> No.4723199

>>4723182
>"=const"
>not creating your own eponymous constant
Fucking casual.

>> No.4723201

>>4723188

mx'' = - bx'*sqrt(x'^2 + y'^2)
my'' = - mg - by'*sqrt(x'^2 + y'^2)

Where b is the coefficient of air resistance.

Now will you people please stop whining about it? Christ you could have looked it up yourself in about five seconds.

>> No.4723205

>>4723182
at least he's ugly as fuck, that evens it out a bit.

>> No.4723206

>>4723188
since the news mentions "ballistic motion" and "air resistance"
considering how complicated fluid motion is, i think it's an implictive function deduced from Stroke's Law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes%27_law

Not a physicts myself, i hope someone just post the fucking function here so we can solve it.

>> No.4723208

>>4723201
I did and couldn't find it

But thanks for the answer.

>> No.4723222

ITT:
>lol y go thru al teh truble of solvin dat wen we can jus punch it nto wolfrum an hav it do da work fo us??

... fucking engineers, man.

>> No.4723223

>>4723182
>arsinh instead of the shorter asinh or the superiour arcsinh

Fucking plebs.

>> No.4723241

>>4723205
but he looks very honest and i like it

>> No.4723248

>>4723222
Oh, that was cute. Still not as cute as theoretical mathematicians begging us for funds.

>> No.4723261

>>4723248
>theoretical mathematicians
Are you 12 or some shit?!

>> No.4723285

>>4723248
>theoretical mathematicians
>>>/b/

>> No.4723343

>>4723201
May I ask why x'*sqrt(x'^2 + y'^2) and not x'^2 + y'^2 ?

>> No.4723374

Still a nigga so big deal

>> No.4723377

>>4723068
>>4723077
>>4723086
troll detected

>> No.4723420

>>4723122
No.

The great thing about an analytic solution is not so much that it is perfectly accurate, than it is that it can be used to simplify other equations, whereas a complicated computer approximation algorithm cannot.

You can also manipulate an analytic solution to derive new things.

Imagine how far behind we would be if we had to rely on a computer approximation for the Pythagorean theorem.

>> No.4723422
File: 10 KB, 398x372, because.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723422

>>4723343

>> No.4723428

what about the case where you have both quadratic and linear drag /sci/? Can you solve it?

>> No.4723431

>these formulas will help with ballistics

So more people will die.

>> No.4723436

>>4723431
And I suppose you think that's somehow bad?

>> No.4723444

What ENORMOUS FAGGOTS people are for saying shit like, 'uh, that wasn't very hard.'

SHOW US YOUR MATH SOLUTIONS TO LONGSTANDING PROBS THEN!!!!!!

FAGS.

>> No.4723450

>>4723444
You seem mad.

>> No.4723455
File: 46 KB, 550x413, 1337918658309.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723455

OK, could anyone state the problem ?

>> No.4723462

Need someone to post the actual problem and his analytic solution PLEASE since no one has yet been able to do so

>> No.4723469

>>4723205
He's 16, pretty much every guy looks like shit at 16. I'd say he's already got a half way decent jaw developing.

>> No.4723479

>>4723469
>He's 16, pretty much every guy looks like shit at 16.

That's a fucking lie and you know it.

>> No.4723480

>>4723431

>So more people will die.

Nope. Weapons become more accurate, less collateral damage, less innocent people will die.

>> No.4723484

>German
>Shit Skin

Pick one

>> No.4723487

yall niggas jelly as a muthafucka smh!!! who give a shit if its worth doing the work you think he give a shit about analytcal or numerics?? dis nigga gona rake it in big real talk go to eth zurich or maybe cambrdige hahaha yall niggas stay mad a fuk

>> No.4723491
File: 143 KB, 1280x1024, 1250220520869.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723491

>>4723480
>implying that's going to stop the US from bombing civilians by "mistake"

>> No.4723494

so.. what were those problems?
Also am I the only one getting this "I'm human", "copy and paste text" shit?

>> No.4723499

>Solves complex math problems
Proud German teen Shouryya Ray
>Arrested for stealing beer
Teenage child of Indian immigrants Shouryya Ray

>> No.4723500

>>4723450

I've calmed down now.

>> No.4723503

>>4723499
Haha. So true.

>> No.4723505

Nice job.

Also ITT insecure "intellectuals" belittling other people's acomplishments:
>>4723171
>>4723171

>> No.4723506

Why isn't this shit on ArXiv yet? I checked and nothing doing.

>> No.4723508

>>4723505
>Also ITT insecure "intellectuals" belittling other people's acomplishments:

No one is doing that. Most of us just want to see the actual fucking problem and solution, but no one seems to be able to provide it.

>> No.4723509

A totally unhelpful summary of a thread in which some people are at least trying to help.

So basically he solved analytically the equation :

(d^2x/dt^2) = A + B.(dx/dt)^2
where A and B constants if he supposed the acceleration of

gravity constant, or A a function of x if he took into

account the variation of gravity with height.

There are 3 differential equations to solve for each

orthogonal direction but they are all of this form.

Even I can solve this equation analytically. The solution is
x(t)=-(1/2B)ln[B/A{c1sin(t[AB]^0.5)+c2cos(t[AB]^0.5)}^2]

i think he's solving an explicit function to an implicit

function x(t), where x is displacement
which describe the motion of a sphere which obeys Stokes'

Law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes%27_law

(g^2/2u^2) + (alpha*g/2)[{(v*(u^2+v^2)^0.5)/u^2}+

arcsinh|v/u|]=const

mx'' = - bx'*sqrt(x'^2 + y'^2)
my'' = - mg - by'*sqrt(x'^2 + y'^2)

Where b is the coefficient of air resistance. May I ask why

x'*sqrt(x'^2 + y'^2) and not x'^2 + y'^2 ?

what about the case where you have both quadratic and linear

drag /sci/? Can you solve it?

>> No.4723511

>>4723487

implying going to Cambridge for maths is a big deal.

I'm doing an MMath there and I haven't contributed anything.

;_;

>> No.4723514

>>4723511
me too... who da fuq are you?

>> No.4723521
File: 4 KB, 126x126, 1321216011865.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723521

>>4723499
Everytime.

>> No.4723523
File: 17 KB, 240x312, sweaty-1007-lg[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723523

>>4723499
>>4723010
gosh it sure is /pol/ in here

>> No.4723528

>>4723523
>>>/pol/3346987

>> No.4723532

>(d^2x/dt^2) = A + B.(dx/dt)^2

<span class="math">\dot{v}=A+Bv^2[\math]

<span class="math">t=\int_{v_0}^{v} \frac{dv}{A+Bv^2}=\frac{\tan^{-1}\left( \frac{\sqrt{b}v}{\sqrt{a}}\right)}{\sqrt{ab}}[/spoiler]

Invert, integrate, done.[/spoiler]

>> No.4723533

Fuck 4chan math tags.

\dot{v}=A+Bv^2

t=\int_{v_0}^{v} \frac{dv}{A+Bv^2}=\frac{\tan^{-1}\left( \frac{\sqrt{b}v}{\sqrt{a}}\right)}{\sqrt{ab}}

Invert, integrate, done.

>> No.4723536

>>4723533

>one dimension

>> No.4723541

>>4723041
>computer models
>precise

lol

>> No.4723548

>>4723536
What's the difference? Motion sideways causes vertical damping?

>> No.4723549

>>4723001
frac{dv}{A+Bv^2}=\frac{\tan^{-1}\left{b}v}{\sqrt{a}}\right)}{\sqrt{ab}}

I solved Newton's theory in 5 seconds.

>> No.4723555

>drag
>one coefficient

lol

>> No.4723559

<div class="math">m\frac{\mathrm{d} u}{\mathrm{d} t}= -Bu\sqrt{u^2+v^2}</div>

<div class="math">m\frac{\mathrm{d} v}{\mathrm{d} t}=-mg -Bv\sqrt{u^2+v^2}</div>

He found a solution in the form f(u,v) = C.

>> No.4723589

Instead of 'Putnam' problems that have solutions, how about we try putting weekly or monthly problems in the sticky that are unsolved but not professional-grade ?

>> No.4723607

>>4723559
This.

So who's gonna find out how he did it?

>> No.4723609
File: 56 KB, 1000x1000, 1338143141540.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723609

Maybe he should work out how to use a razor and apply it to that eyebrow of his.

>> No.4723621

>>4723479
Compared to how they look in their early twenties, absolutely not... Unless you're a pedo I suppose.

>> No.4723624

>>4723205
He's actually pretty good looking, coming from another good looking male.

>> No.4723640
File: 22 KB, 768x768, stop.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4723640

newishfag here.

This /frac etc math tags. what they mean?

>> No.4723643

>>4723422
okay.jpg, thanks

>> No.4723644

>>4723589
Sooo.... putnam problems...

>> No.4723646

>>4723644
Putnam problems clearly state they are from pre-solved exam sets

>> No.4723660

>>4723646
That would be stupid. Quite frankly, I'm surprised putnam problems even get more than like 3 responses.

>> No.4723752

I don't get why so many people are dismissing this as "hurr durr useless math"

This isn't some useless proof or identity with no real-world applications - these are solutions to differential equations that scientists and mathematicians have been stuck on for centuries. This could lead to solutions for dozens of similar problems where numerical solutions either aren't accurate enough or aren't possible.

>> No.4723779

>>4723041
I haven't read his solutions, but simulation is often quite more computationally expensive than exact mathematical solutions...

>> No.4723785

>>4723001
ok, I'm impressed

now solve the n-body problem and I'll call him a genius

>> No.4723807

Games gonna be more real!

>> No.4723816

>>4723589
Are you volunteering to supply problems?

>> No.4723817

>>4723640
learn something useful:
en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX

>> No.4723818

>>4723807
His discoveries will increase the isolation and alienation of human beings by creating fuller virtual realities. He must be assassinated and shunned by the academic community.

>> No.4723850

>>4723817

thanks

>> No.4724198

He did not create some extraordinary new theory at 16. That happens once a millenium. He did go through all the trouble of solving a very, very, VERY messy problem that we thought was unsolvable analytically. Kudos to him.

Also, this thread is overflowing with butthurt. Come on, you guys, you will make your own contributions to science at some point.

>> No.4724308

>>4723107
how do I <span class="math"> \int v dx [/spoiler] ? v = dx/dt
wolfram says it is vx but doesnt show how, can i just treat v as a constant?

>> No.4724323

>Shouryya Ray worked out how to calculate exactly the path of a projectile under gravity and subject to air resistance

I thought this was already common knowledge.

>> No.4724338

>>4724308

In fact the post you are referring to is for the one-dimensional case (i.e. object falling vertically), and it seems like the kid solved the two-dimensional case.

In all cases no, you cannot treat v as a constant since obviously the speed of the projectile varies with time

>> No.4724340

>>4724308
v(x)*dv/dx

>> No.4724342

I wonder what kind of math he used, which is supposedly beyond the grasp of his father.

>> No.4724355

>>4723083
contribution =/= contribution to advance mankind.

I give the kid a big pat on the back. He's obviously talented and deserves the recognition for it.

But the problem really has little practical use. I'm not saying this because "hurr 30 year old virgin neckbeard being bitter he hasn't done anything worthwhile", I'm saying it because it is. The kid probably kicks my ass in every aspect on academia - but he certainly hasn't contributed anything meaningful outside of theoretical problem solving.

>> No.4724365
File: 752 KB, 1200x900, shouryya1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4724365

>> No.4724367

>>4723147
What's your fucking point?

No one said he wasn't gifted or that it wasn't a nice contribution, all we have argued is that the last statement ("his solutions are expected to contribute to greater precision in areas such as ballistics.") is wrong, since the field has no use for these outdated solutions.

For a science board you guys sure have terrible reading comprehension skills.

>> No.4724371

>>4723171
If the contribution is trivial then discussing how trivial it is is a large part of discussing the contribution.

>> No.4724393

>>4724323
I know, isn't this just a line integral?

>> No.4724394

>>4724340
what is dv/dx? what is v(x)?
how did you get to this result?

>> No.4724400

>>4723807
not really, very few games use realistic projectile motion (ARMA2 is one)

>> No.4724401

Query: is this a problem that mathfags have actually been contemplating for centuries, or is this just a footnote problem somewhere in the distance past that few people have really tried to tackle seriously?

I hate these pop sci websites, they never give enough info.

>> No.4724416

that's great and all, but i can beat him up

>> No.4724419

He's got a killer stache for 16.

>> No.4724425

>>4724419
I was just thinking the same thing. This guy must get all sorts of tang. Bitches love moustaches.

>> No.4724428

>>4724425
>>4724419
>Oh Shouryya Ray, differentiate my asshole from my vag! Then fuck them both, please.
>Sure thing baby, just let me finish your friend off over here

>> No.4724429

>>4724401
my guess is that only a few people were actually working on this problem or others like it.

Most modern approaches to nonlinear dynamical systems use either qualitative representations of the solutions or use more sophisticated math like viewing the problem as a Lie group manifold and finding invariants of the symmetries.

>> No.4724433

>>4724401
if it was trivial it would've already been solved
it's not an obscure problem, you can come up with it by thinking, what happens if i throw a ball in real life, not in vacuum? how do i describe it?

>> No.4724436

>>4724433
It falls down, duh. Not really hard to answer.

>> No.4724442

Figures it would be a currynigger to solve it.

>> No.4724446

testing this post for troll repellent, doesn't seem to be working

>> No.4724448

>>4724446
Wat? You want to repell yourself?

>> No.4724470

Are you kidding me? Nobody figured this out until now?

>> No.4724477

The turks are a well known minority in germany...he's probably of turkish descent.

>> No.4724975

>>4724477

That would make sense since they built a 27 foot long canon to conquer Byzantium. They know their projectiles.

>> No.4724991

>>4724477

Hes indian. He doesnt even look turkish.