/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4642718]

Finals are over for me so I'm going to start a Cold War technology thread.


Things seriously proposed or actually built during the Cold War:

>Nuclear thermal rockets like NERVA
>A militarized moon base
>A goddamn Orion nuclear pulse propelled interplanetary battleship
>Rocket guns
>Powered exoskeletons for aircraft loading/maintenance
>Nuclear ramjet cruise missiles that sprayed Cobalt 60 death over enemy territory in between nuke drops
>Militarized space capsules (Blue Gemini, Salyut /Almaz)
>Militarized space planes (DynaSoar, MiG-105)
>HOTOL, NASP, and Saenger II spaceplanes
>Caseless ammunition assault weapons
>Supersonic civilian airliners like the Concorde, Tu144, Lockheed L-2000, Boeing 2707

[Anonymous No.4642723]

>>4642718
Gyroget rocket gun.

Though inappropriate for short-range use, the rounds actually increased in velocity for a goodly duration of their flight. They are also just perfect for use in low or zero gravity environments when equipped with the proposed plastic "confetti" launcher to counteract momentum imparted to the operator.

[Anonymous No.4642724]

>>4642723
The Lockheed L2000, proposed as a supersonic transport to be sold to airliner operators worldwide. The idea was that a sufficiently fast airliner could travel more times along a given route and hence be profitable despite fuel and maintenance costs.

Sure, it was inefficient but we couldn't let the Reds dominate supersonic civilian travel!

[Anonymous No.4642727]

>>4642724
A caseless assault rifle with a firing rate almost double that of traditional weapons, resulting in an extremely small spread for burst fire. By the time pre-production models were being produced, the only real problems were cost and complexity. Problems with cook-off, stability of the caseless rounds, and feeding were all solved.

The G-11 was ultimately considered redundant with the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Though this is indicative of a trend with the West Germans...

[Anonymous No.4642732]

>>4642727
... which is also seen with the MBB Lampyridae designed by Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm.

Developed at the same time as but entirely separate from the US F-117 stealth attack aircraft, the Lampyridae was designed as a stealth "missileer" fighter to defend West German airspace.

[Anonymous No.4642737]

>>4642732
Which also leads me to the Saenger II, a West German spaceplane proposal.

Developed from work initially done by Saenger during WWII that resulted in the Silbervoegel design proposal, the Saenger II was to be Europe's solution for cheap, reusable manned space flight.

A similar proposal from the UK, the HOTOL, has seen continued development as the Skylon spaceplane and its SABRE hybrid pre-cooled ramjet engines.

[Anonymous No.4642740]

>>4642737
And who can forget NERVA?

A US proposal for a nuclear thermal rocket to regularly propel cargoes to and from Lunar orbit.

Mission profile was roughly as follows:
>NERVA "shuttle" lofted into low Earth orbit where it sits until needed
>Craft or cargoes dock with NERVA "shuttle" and it then carries said cargo out of Earth's gravity, through cis Lunar space, and into Lunar orbit where it is then either re-fuelled for a return trip or "parked"
>After a life of approximately 30 missions, the NERVA shuttles are fueled one more time to act as high velocity boosters for launching probes to the outer system, missions to Mars, or cargo on one-way trips to Mars.
>Spent or retired NERVA boosters could also be cannibalized for their reactors to be used in Lunar or Martian colonies, nuclear electric rockets, or space stations.

[Anonymous No.4642743]

>>4642740
Flying platforms like the one pictured and the "Hummingbird" were seriously proposed as a means for scout infantry to move about. Versions were proposed with anti-tank missiles, helmet/sight-tracking machine guns (like today's attack helicopters, but smaller scale), and ground-penetrating radar for mine-sweeping.

Though both fuel efficiency and range were considered adequate for combat, it was considered to be an expensive toy for the military. Potential civilian uses were not explored.

[Anonymous No.4642748]

>>4642743
Onto Project Pluto

It was a proposed nuclear ramjet engine, which instead of combustion used a nuclear reactor to heat incoming air, which is rather similar in principle to NERVA.

There were proposed versions that would spray a payload of Cobalt 60 between target waypoints to close off lines of transport and evacuation.

Mission profile was to fly between target waypoints dropping nuclear munitions until only one was left, then to detonate it by ramming into a final hardened target or pre-programmed target of opportunity in the event of accident.

[Anonymous No.4642751]

The USSR and USA were spending millions on Parapsychology and other similar topics around this time, maybe they trained a bunch of super spy soldiers using this information.

[Anonymous No.4642758]

>>4642748I give you Project Excalibur.

While more "traditional" laser weapons fire within the infrared or visible spectrum, Excalibur was designed to fire in the x-ray spectrum.

The only sufficiently plentiful source of X-rays known for making a viable weapon was a nuclear detonation, so that's where the engineers started.

The basic idea was to use a nuclear shaped charge with neutron opaque material like uranium (waste, depleted, non-fissile) to direct all x-rays generated by the blast in one direction.

Prior to firing, the optic assembly would aim itself at a target and lock onto it. The bomb would then detonate and most of its x-rays would be directed forward into the optic assembly to be focused into a coherent beam of x-rays. Thus, you can either have stationary "brilliant pebbles" that can be used as one-off x-ray lasers or warheads that will detonate to fire an x-ray laser at a target at close range.
>>4642751
I highly doubt those investigations bore any fruit.

Crazy shit, though more appropriate for /x/ than /sci/

[Anonymous No.4642766]

>>4642758
In a similar vein to Project Excalibur, we have Project Casaba Howitzer.

The idea is to use a nuclear shaped charge coupled with a channel filler of an x-ray ablative material like Beryllium. The material vaporizes and pushes against a thin, low atomic number material like Lithium. This forms a VERY narrow jet that can be (given the right technology) adjusted on-the-fly to converge on a target.

Thus, you have a weapon that fires a spear of high velocity plasma. Imagine that for a moment, a warhead that shoots nuclear flame. A nuclear-powered, one-off directed energy weapon that IS NOT the only one of its kind.

[Anonymous No.4642768]

>>4642766
I give you Project Orion. The links explain it pretty well. It should also be noted that, with current technology, this is the single fastest and most energy-dense form of spacecraft propulsion known to man.

www.projectrho.com/rocket/enginelist.php#id--Orion

www.projectrho.com/rocket/realdesigns.php#id--Project_Orion_Battleship

This was, naturally, proposed to be armed to the teeth.

200 nuclear missiles equipped with various warheads from 20MT "city buster" warheads, to Casaba Howitzer "plasma lance" warheads, to enhanced radiation "neutron bomb" warheads.

3 5in naval guns to fire smaller Casaba Howitzer charges from "pancake boosters" for use at closer ranges

COIL (chemical) lasers, solid state lasers, or gatling guns would constitute the Orion Warship's point-defense armament.

Remember that, were this thing built, it would be the fastest vehicle ever built by man. 2 weeks to Mars almost regardless of orbit, a month and a half to 3 months to Jupiter depending on orbit.

[Anonymous No.4642787]

>>4642758

yeah, you're probably right, I just don't understand why they would continue the research for decades without seeing any promising results initially. Loons.

[Anonymous No.4642795]

>>4642787
The GE Beetle was designed as a mech for use in maintenance, cleanup, and handling of nuclear reactors for aerospace use. It was also planned for use in high radiation environments.

Though not a combat mech, it was nonetheless an impressive machine.

[Anonymous No.4642808]

>>4642768

I imagine they said to the engineers something to the effect of

>We need something that can completely glass the Reds. Go nuts.

[Anonymous No.4642812]

I miss the cold war

[Anonymous No.4642819]

>>4642743

it's a shame all highly advanced technology find its way into the hands of those who wish to use it for war before they even consider implementing it in the gen. pop

[Anonymous No.4642824]

>>4642819

Necessity is the mother of innovation.

[Anonymous No.4642825]

We should have these threads more often.

Thanks OP, this is great.

[Anonymous No.4642833]

>>4642819
No, because if the US wasn't terrified of the Reds, no one would have funded the research anyways. That's why I'm excited about China militarizing space. Maybe we'll actually fund something that matters.

[Anonymous No.4642837]

>>4642808
Probably.

I mean, it'd be able to totally wreck anything between here and Saturn.

The proposed craft was to have hybrid rocket/ramjet "landing boats" and it was imagined to have a contingent of what ultimately amount to space marines operating from those "boats"

>>4642812
So do I.

>>4642819
You have to understand that a lot of this awesome science and engineering is expensive. The Cold War was kinda awesome because there was a blanket justification for almost everything: "What if the Reds do it first?"

That justification got us to the moon.
That justification ensured that no particle accelerator went unfunded.
That justification meant massive scholarships for even middling science/engineering students
That justification meant grants for labs in primary and secondary schools.
That justification meant experimental reactor designs and facilities to test the limits (like at Idaho National Lab) of reprocessing and breeder reactors.
That justification meant funding for oceanographic research.

The work might have been done/commissioned/funded for the basest of reasons, but in the absence of the Cold War justifications a lot of this awesome technology and research has stagnated. Hell, molten salt reactors were practically a "lost" technology to be rediscovered.

[Anonymous No.4642845]

>>4642825
Glad you approve. I've done this twice before on /b/ and even they seemed to drop the cynicism for a minute and embrace it all. People generally loved it.

>>4642795
The Atoms for Peace initiative and Project Plowshare proposed bold new uses for nuclear technology.

One proposal (pictured) was for large cargo zeppelins to rapidly transport whole components without the need for later re-assembly on site.

Project Plowshare investigated the utility of nuclear detonations for civil engineering purposes. Proposals were made to use underground detonations to instantly clear out and create harbors, merge aquifers, and deepen channels/create canals.

A number of experimental civilian nuclear powered container/cargo ships was also produced.

[Anonymous No.4642847]

So, the threat of war is justified in that it keeps us on the bleeding edge of innovation. Got it.

[Anonymous No.4642852]

>>4642847
War is destructive.

Arms races can be wasteful, but are always preferable to war.

Arms races involving competing technologies are ideal because they have numerous spinoffs and provide justifications for quite a bit of both basic and applied research.

Saying, "We must invest heavily in research and technology to ensure the future growth of our economy on which our standard and way of living depends." is not particularly motivating to people and politicians.

Saying, "We have to do it or the Reds will do it and get the jump on us." has a more immediate and urgent message with which populations and politicians identify.

Sad, but true.

[Anonymous No.4642858]

>>4642852

Perhaps the speed at which the technologies are produced will be reduced in the former scenario; but with fear used as a motivator the types of technologies produced would be completely different compared to a motivator based on unity - as in we wouldn't be seeing all of these killing machines. I realise the necessity of such things, but our priorities don't seem to be in order.

I would think an energy crisis and starvation would be nonexistent if your mentality were reversed and implemented in politics.

[Anonymous No.4642859]

>>4642833
>China militarising space.
No. The people militarising space are the Americans.

[Anonymous No.4642862]

>>4642858
I agree wholeheartedly.

The problem is that it's difficult to get people behind these projects with the will and money necessary without a justification that speaks to them. Economic growth, improved standards of living, promise for the future, etc. simply don't seem to be enough.

Remember that these killing machines like Project Orion could just as easily be used to explore the outer planets and open up the solar system.

Remember that nuclear reactor technology is one of the few sustainable and reasonable answers to rising energy costs and environmental damage.

Remember that research into mach 3 bombers was also applied to civilian airliner proposals.

Even research into improved SONAR technology gave us better pictures of whale migration patterns and climate trends.

[Anonymous No.4642876]

>>4642862

I see what you're saying, it's just the ends don't justify the means. We've developed this wondrous technology that we simply aren't ready to use to its full potential because people are still stuck in this mindset of perpetual war and chaos. Since that's the way things always were, that's the way they'll continue to be - unless we get our priorities in order.

[Anonymous No.4642892]

>>4642876
Well, I believe/hope that the net helps with developing us into this direction.
Can't predict anything, but I like the direction. Recently, people started to care about way more issues in the world than before.

[Anonymous No.4642963]

>>4642892
Let's hope.

Personally, I'm okay with military technology paving the way.

My realistic hope is that the military works out the bugs and eventually we all realize that our standard of living (enabled by technology) is more worth fighting for than just killing the other guy.

[Anonymous No.4642973]

>>4642963

the military industrial complex doesn't want your hope to happen.

[Anonymous No.4643106]

I really like this thread so far, but sadly the only thing to contribute that comes to mind is the soviet Ekranoplan project, which led to the development of several truly gigantic seaplanes of up to 73m length (dimensions that rival jumbo jets) that make use of the ground effect to travel over bodies of water at a cruising height of about 20 m and a speed of up to 560 kph, and which were intended as mobile launch platforms for supersonic anti-ground cruise missiles.

[Anonymous No.4643127]

>>4643106
wow I guess that's too dangerous a method for civilian flights?

[Anonymous No.4643133]

>>4643127

It's a bit like a hovercraft, can't handle rough seas, noisy, bumpy

[Anonymous No.4643137]

Does anyone have any juicy details on technology that came about from MKULTRA? Mind/personality manipulation must be a very prevalent field in the military.

[Anonymous No.4643151]

>>4643106
Another display of the soviet megalomania that comes to mind is the Antonov Na-225 "Mriya", a cargo plane that still holds a number of world records, including heaviest airplane of all time, highest possible take off weight ever, and highest cargo volume ever. It could in fact take a Space Shuttle piggyback, and still have over 75% of its maximum cargo weight available.

[Anonymous No.4643154]

>>4643151
Got a bit of a typo there, my bad. It's supposed to read Antonov An-225.

[Anonymous No.4643181]

>>4643127
It's more fuel-efficient to climb up to where the air is thinner, I think. Plus, being able to travel over land is handy. Ekranoplans are still awesome though.

Pic is the Sprint antiballistic missile, which was designed to intercept incoming ICBMs right at the end of their trajectory (after they'd gotten past any other ABM defenses). It accelerated at 100 gravities (a kilometer per second squared!) guided by ground-based phased-array radars and, in theory, would knock out an incoming nuclear missile by detonating its *own* nuclear warhead near it.

[Anonymous No.4643192]

>>4643151
And to complete the picture we have the helicopter counterpart, the Mil Mi-26, which is by far the biggest helicopter ever built and dwarves even widely known heavy transport helis like the american Chinook. No post is complete without some numbers, so here we go. 40 m length, 30 m rotor diameter, 4600 m service ceiling, can transport over 20 t of cargo (which seem to be well exceeded in this picture but don't seem to bother the performance at all), 255 kph cruise speed.

[Anonymous No.4643209]

>>4642892

>Recently, people started to care about way more issues in the world than before.

No. That's called you getting older.

[Anonymous No.4643235]

>>4643151
>>4643192
Soviet megalomania you say?

Good thing they downgraded it from 100 megatons to 50 megatons shortly before the test was conducted.

[Anonymous No.4643801]

>>4643181
It was intended to use an enhanced neutron warhead to fry the electronics and hence firing mechanism of the incoming MIRVs.

[Anonymous No.4643876]

Quick reminder that the Blackbird will be half a century old in two years and still holds the speed record for jet airplanes. I sure do miss the competitiveness of the Cold War, all the innovation you get these days is about boring, practical things like renewable energy instead of planes that go three and a half times the speed of sound just for the sake of it.

[Anonymous No.4643892]

>>4643876

Pretty sure a MiG-25 got clocked on radar once at Mach 3.2, so it's not completely uncontested. At least the Blackbird can do that sort of speed without falling apart.

Besides, planes like the Blackbird are pretty redundant now. They're too slow.

[Anonymous No.4643903]

>>4643892
Oh man, yeah. The MiG 25 and 31 are capable of mach 3, but they cannot sustain it without having their engines or airframe fall apart.

[Anonymous No.4643918]

>>4643235
They didn't have a choice. They don't have a bomber that can get out of range of the full blast in time even with a parachute drop.

[Anonymous No.4643919]

>>4643903
On the other hand they're useable as actual aircrafts, unlike the Blackbird which had pretty much no purpose other than going high and fast as an experimental platform. As I understand it the high speed and altitude of the MiG-25 was actually a surprise rather than planned.

[Anonymous No.4643924]

and after all this sci-fi, the only real weapon in space was a Russian artillery piece on board their space station, in case they need to shoot down American satellites. It was planned to shoot it through a window / hatch, operated by a cosmonaut in EVA suit.

[Anonymous No.4643929]

>>4643919
I understand it the other way around.

Those big, powerful engines.
Those large wings.
Those huge vertical stabilizers.

Western analysts thought it was meant to be a powerful and maneuverable super-fighter. Turns out that it wasn't much of a super-fighter.
>>4643924
It shot lucite slugs.

This also isn't sci-fi at all. These were serious proposals with accompanying technology to make them happen.

[Anonymous No.4644023]

>>4643924
>>4643929
It wasn't just a plan. One of the Soviet space stations was actually equipped with one, and they tested it.

[Anonymous No.4644921]

>>4643876
Whats more depressing is, the issue isnt more speed. The issue is humans being too frail and fragile to handle what jet airplanes could really go at.

[Anonymous No.4644928]

>>4644921
planes aren't designed to withstand much more than the human body can

[Anonymous No.4644955]

>>4644928
Well durr, thats because they're meant to be manned. No point in making an aircraft thats strong enough to withstand huge speeds but every human inside is gibbed into bits. Then you compare unmanned jets and they go much faster than any manned jet.

See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_X-43
Goes nearly 4x faster than an SR-71

[Anonymous No.4645001]

>>4644955
I bet they're researching unmanned jets that can go faster than the human body can tolerate as soon as they can work out an AI smart enough to pilot it. After that there won't be humans flying jet fighters anymore. After all, who could compete with the mechanical precision and rapid reaction times of a machine? To it flying against humans would seem like beating up clumsy children who can only move in slow motion.

[Anonymous No.4645239]

>>4645001
But what if you hijack the pilot program?

[Anonymous No.4645244]

>>4645001
Replacing humans with machines. What can go wrong?

[Anonymous No.4645263]

>>4645244
Nothing.
Either they follow the programming, and that's good.
Either they discover the meaning of love, and that's good too.
They could discover the meaning of hatred and wipe us too, but their civilization will endure, so it's not that bad.