/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4585889]

If a creator god did turn out to be real and was similar to the god described in the bible (say for example he allowed all errors in the bible to exist because he didn't think it was important enough to correct straight away) how would you feel about that?

Notice the "if" part, not trying to recruit anyone to a religion here ok...

[Anonymous No.4585892]

I'd be pissed at him.

[Anonymous No.4585894]

Weirded out, I'd still think he's a dumbass though.

[troll No.4585895]

>implying errors in the bible

[Anonymous No.4585898]

He's would be quite an egotistical dickhead, unworthy of worship. He can send me to hell for all I care, I'd rather get used to the pain of burning for eternity than worship that fuckface in heaven forever.

[Anonymous No.4585901]

I'd used deductive reasoning to realise God is a being with a great sense of humour.

[mtp !EKFQOBEsKo No.4585903]

we'd all be fucked. if you havent read the bible, a little spoiler: god was so fucking evil its unbelievable

[OP No.4585907]

>>4585903
I can't say I'm a fan of the god of the bible atm

[Anonymous No.4585916]

>>4585903
if you think God is evil, then what is good?

[Anonymous No.4585918]

>>4585907
why do you assume there are errors in the bible?

have you studied it extensively?

[Anonymous No.4585920]

>>4585898
what good would that do you, to choose to suffer hell?

do you think that will hurt God?

[Anonymous No.4585921]

>>4585916
> There is no good. No evil. No Light. There is only POWA!

[Anonymous No.4585923]

>>4585901
He made the duck-billed platypus, so yeah, He can be a riot

[Anonymous No.4585924]

>>4585916

Humans are very much capable or deciding, at the very least, what evil in a God would be. God doesn't imply goodness.

[Anonymous No.4585926]

>>4585921
from where (or whom) do you believe that power eminates?

[Anonymous No.4585929]

>>4585924
indeed; God actually states that He is good, and that none but Him are good

what authority do you rely upon to show otherwise?

[Anonymous No.4585931]

>>4585898
what if worshipping God in heaven is the most satisfying high you will ever achieve?

[Anonymous No.4585932]

>>4585929
Myself.

[Anonymous No.4585934]

>>4585926
From something else, and that something else gets it from something else, and so on, and so on, and so on.

If you think life or reality is in anyway finite or bounded, then you're just a set of pixels on a screen being controlled by something else.

[Anonymous No.4585935]

>>4585894
how could God create the universe and be a dumbass?

[Anonymous No.4585938]

>>4585932
and if God made you?

where then does your ability to judge come from? indeed, where did "you" come from, apart from God?

[Anonymous No.4585940]

>>4585918

There are uncountable logical, historical, physical, moral, errors in the Bible. No one has to assume.

This is what you would expect of a 4000 year old bronze age book.

[Anonymous No.4585943]

>>4585934
how does pushing the question backwards into time solve it? is that not just a means by which to evade the question?

similar to the world being held in place by an infinite column of giant turtles?

[Anonymous No.4585944]

>>4585938
And how did God come to be? He made himself?

[Anonymous No.4585947]

>>4585940
could you enlighten me with one, perhaps the most egregious in your view, and allow me to study it for a moment?

[Anonymous No.4585953]

>>4585944
He revealed that He is not a created being, and that He always was, and always will be, and that there are none other like Him

so no, nobody or nothing created God; one of His names is the Great I Am

[Anonymous No.4585954]

>>4585929

Lol assuming God of the Bible one merely has to read it, use a little bit of brain power, to come to the conclusion that that God is not in any way good.

I get it from the understanding of my human solidarity and general consensus with other concious beings.

[Anonymous No.4585959]

>>4585954
what standard do you hold God to? by what authority do you judge God?

is it not clear that He is the Creator, and you one of the created?

[Anonymous No.4585960]

>>4585943
That question isn't like 2-part question or a 5-part question. It's an infinite-part question. Each part has an answer. The answer is never evaded at all.

Where did I come from?
My parents.
Where did they come from?
Their parents.
Where did they come from?
Their parents.
...

[Anonymous No.4585964]

>>4585960
we all came from Adam and Eve.

that is a really easy question to answer. thank you.

[Anonymous No.4585965]

>>4585943
> how does pushing the question backwards into time solve it? is that not just a means by which to evade the question?

> God always existed forever.

[Anonymous No.4585969]

>>4585964
> Adam and Eve
> belly buttons

[Anonymous No.4585971]

>>4585965
if you want to consider a timeless dimension forever, yes

however, in a timeless dimension, it is always "now"

so God has always been "now"

[Anonymous No.4585972]

>>4585969
they were created as adults, so no belly buttons, regardless of artistic license

[Corrupt No.4585973]

>>4585947

[Anonymous No.4585976]

If the abrahamic god turn out to be real, we would find a way to reach it, and exploit his unbounded love for us by putting him in a generator.

Free energy for everyone, literally, as it is everywhere!

We would also coerce him into changing c to something more useful.

[Anonymous No.4585978]

>>4585973
that is quite interesting, and old, and factually incorrect.

is there perhaps one bit in there that you believe infallibly disproves either the nature of God or the deity of Jesus?

protip: it is not the altered stories of Horus, Mithra, etc.; those were changed after Jesus rose from the dead

[Anonymous No.4585980]

>>4585947

lol the assumption of a global flood is to easy. The idea that Noah and his family re populated the entire earth after the flood is also an easy one, an impossibility.

Need I even go into Leviticus? The mounds of erroneous things claimed to be abomination and sinful.

Supporting slavery, genocide.

[Anonymous No.4585981]

>>4585976
we talked Him into killing His only Son to save us

isn't that enough?

[Anonymous No.4585983]

>>4585971
We don't live in a timeless dimension.

[Anonymous No.4585984]

I'd feel like the universe was being run by a sadistic madman whom would need to be removed from power. There is a very good comic book that covers this subject well, it is called 'Preacher'.

[Anonymous No.4585987]

>>4585980
Noah's three sons and their wives need a very conservative population estimate to reach the current population of the globe. People have studied this extensively. So no, this does not disprove any portion of the bible.

insofar as what God says is unclean or abominable, those things are unclean and/or abominable.

i really do not think you have considered exactly who God is

[Anonymous No.4585991]

>>4585983
God does; He lives in the third heaven, where He always has been, and from where He created our earth and our two heavens (the atmosphere and outer space). the rules He applied to our universe do not control Him, nor do they apply to His heaven.

in a realm where nothing dies, and nothing decays, time is irrelevant

[Anonymous No.4585992]

I would set out to kill that cruel, egotistical prick

[Anonymous No.4585995]

>>4585959

Any God that sends someone to eternal torture for a finite offense is immoral. If you can't see this you just don't think.

Any God that allows evil to exist, when he is fully capable of removing it, is evil.

Any God who knowingly allows the suffering of uncountable people, to test them, when he full well knows the outcome of the test, is evil.

List goes on.

[Anonymous No.4585999]

>>4585984
God requires perfection. we failed. therefore, He had to redeem us from imperfection, change us into something perfect, and transform us so that we could live with Him forever in heaven.

God is actually Love, and Holy, and Righteous, and you are running out of time to claim your pardon for not being perfect.

inb4 God made you imperfect; He did not. He made Adam and Eve sinless, yet they disobeyed, and were cursed. you carry that curse. and without Him, you are walking dead, drawing dead, and dead indeed

[Anonymous No.4586000]

>>4585981

Of course not, if it exist, it is a resource to be exploited, nothing more, nothing less.

[Anonymous No.4586001]

>>4585995
>Any God that sends someone to eternal torture for a finite offense is immoral. If you can't see this you just don't think

>Any God that allows evil to exist, when he is fully capable of removing it, is evil.

>Any God who knowingly allows the suffering of uncountable people, to test them, when he full well knows the outcome of the test, is evil.

troll defecated

[Anonymous No.4586002]

>>4585992
How would you go about killing an infinite source of power, capable of predicting your attacks, immune to all your weapons, and in a place you cannot access, yet He can reach out and touch you?

[Anonymous No.4586003]

>>4585987

Just wrong. Noah and his family isn't a big enough gene pool to repopulate to today's societies.

They have hundreds of other ancient civilations around the same time of Noah's flood who apparently missed the fact that the entire world was filled with water.

[Anonymous No.4586004]

>>4585995
Anyone that doesn't realize that evil is subjective has no valid inquiry.

[Anonymous No.4586006]

>>4585999
>inb4 God made you imperfect; He did not. He made Adam and Eve sinless, yet they disobeyed
Because god made them imperfect. There's kinda no way around this logical conclusion, if your creator is an omniscient, omnipotent deity.

[sage No.4586008]

>>4585991
>in a realm where nothing
>where nothing
>nothing
There is no Poe here it is a clear troll.
Please sage to show you are aware of the fact this is retarded trolling.

[Anonymous No.4586010]

>>4585999

Have you actually read the bible? Good is fucking insane.

"When a group of children from Bethel taunted the prophet for his baldness, Elisha cursed them in the name of God and two female bears came out of the forest and mauled 42 of them (2 Kings 2:23–25)."

[Anonymous No.4586011]

>>4585995
you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it is just that; your opinion

>Any God that sends someone to eternal torture for a finite offense is immoral. If you can't see this you just don't think.
what but an eternal punishment is just for an eternal offense against an eternal and Holy God?

>Any God that allows evil to exist, when he is fully capable of removing it, is evil.
what makes you think God is not going to eradicate all evil, but on His timetable, and not yours?

>Any God who knowingly allows the suffering of uncountable people, to test them, when he full well knows the outcome of the test, is evil.
do you really think God has to perform "tests" to see what the outcome is going to be? this is a being who sees the end from before the beginning. one cannot surprise God, nor can one teach God a lesson, nor can one hurt God.

your personal rebellion against an omnipotent deity deserves a second thought

[Anonymous No.4586015]

>>4585999
>God requires perfection. we failed.
If the creature created us, it is it that failed.
You don't blame the faulty car in an accident, but the constructor.

[Anonymous No.4586021]

showing that is trivial

SCENARIO 1: Each woman has, on average, 3 daughters who reach adulthood, and get her girls on average at age 25

From the ark comes 3 woman of child-bearing age =3

25 years later: 3×3 young woman/ girls of next generation.

50 years later: 3x3x3

100 years later: 3 to the power of 5

200 years later: 3 to the power of 9 =19 683

350 years later: 3 to the power of 15 =14 348 907

500 years later: 3 to the power of 21=10 460 353 203 (More young woman and girls than there are people in the world now.)

[Anonymous No.4586023]

I would be absolutely terrified. I would be so fucked. SO fucked.

[Anonymous No.4586027]

>>4586006
you keep stressing "perfect", as though God made automatons

He did not. He made human beings, fully capable of obeying or disobeying God.

when you get the idea that God created organic, self-replicating, self-healing, self-aware people, and not robots, you'll see how far mankind fell when we disobeyed the one rule we had

don't eat this one fruit.

[Anonymous No.4586028]

>>4585999

lol the imperfection came from God. Where else could it have come from? If everything is the result of God then so is imperfection.

God knew when he created Adam and Eve and put the tree there that they would fuck up. Going on to say that he wanted us to have free will is bullshit, because he already knew the outcome.

An omnipotent God asking someone to sacrifice there child to test there faith is just the sign a sign that he either is cruel, or not omnipotent.

[Anonymous No.4586031]

>>4586021
>get her girls on average at age 25
Most people didn't even live that long back then.

[Anonymous No.4586032]

God would be more likely to be the God of Islam or Sikhism. The Christian trinity is clearly false.

[Anonymous No.4586033]

>>4586008
"where nothing dies"
"where nothing decays"
refers to the third heaven, which should be clear to a reasonable reader

[Anonymous No.4586034]

I'd be relieved and I'd worship it.

[Anonymous No.4586039]

>>4586021
Don't forget that is given current standards of procreation, if the bible is factual, it was far from uncommon to have 8-10 children.

[Anonymous No.4586040]

>>4586010
it was a mob of arab youths making death threats to a prophet of God; "go up! go up!" refers to the manner in which Elijah left the world.

so God sent a bear and killed the mob

lesson: don't fuck with the prophets of God

[Anonymous No.4586041]

>>4586032

The Christian Trinity is not from the Bible. It was misinterpreted.

[Anonymous No.4586043]

If i was god, and i wanted to create something perfect, i would probably spawn neutron stars everywhere.

[Anonymous No.4586046]

>>4586041
I know, but that's nonetheless the God most Christians believe to be true.

[Anonymous No.4586048]

>>4586015
again, we are talking machines vs. people

had God made machines, none of us would know about it

He made people, and by virtue of thousands of years of population growth, there are now billions of us, all with our own quirks, and all with our own free will

and not a single one of us good, much less perfect

[Anonymous No.4586049]

I want to believe.

Can someone please explain how people in the Bible lived so long?

[Anonymous No.4586052]

>>4586023
fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; ask Him for mercy, and you will receive it. Proclaim with your mouth that Jesus is LORD, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, and you will be saved.

[Anonymous No.4586059]

>>4586028
you keep stumbling over the word "perfect". the only perfect i am aware of are the ways of God. we were created "good" by God's standards; i.e., we worked, lived, were aware, could reproduce, could know Him, walk with Him, talk with Him, obey Him, or disobey Him.

there is no flaw in God; there is only the redemption of the flaw in mankind, and for that, God provided a perfect means of salvation in the acceptable sacrifice of His Son, Jesus of Nazareth

[Anonymous No.4586063]

>>4586031
methusaleh lived to be 969 years old; many people lived to be over 700 years old. it was only at the tower of babel fiasco that God put a 120 year cap on mankind

and since then, anyone who claimed to be over 120 years old has been found to be a liar, a fraud, or has no evidence of such

[Anonymous No.4586064]

>>4586027
>you keep stressing "perfect", as though God made automatons
That was my first post in this thread.

>He did not. He made human beings, fully capable of obeying or disobeying God.
There's no such thing as truly free will or unpredictable behavior when you're the creation of an omniscient and omnipotent deity. Even before he expressed his rules to Adam and Eve, he knew they'd break them, because he had made them so that they would. He who is all-knowing and all-powerful bears all responsibility for his creations. Maybe not morally, but logically. There's no escaping this.

tl;dr: As I said, your claims and even the very idea of "disobedience" make absolutely no sense if your premise involves the omniscience and omnipotence of god.

[Anonymous No.4586065]

>>4586040
There is no possible way you can justify killing children with bears. Just stop.
And "Because they were Arabs" just makes you sound like a racist dick, oh wait you ae.

[Anonymous No.4586066]

>>4586032
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit; the Father and Son bound together by the Holy Spirit

what fraud is in that?

[Anonymous No.4586070]

>>4586034
do so now, today. today is the day of salvation. you are not promised tomorrow

[Anonymous No.4586071]

>>4586066
The OT also mentions the holy spirit, it also includes other things, such as the "evil spirit of God" (I Samuel 16:23) and the "lying spirit of God" (I Kings 22:23), also "the destroyer" (Exodus 12:23). How ever, these in Judaism, being in the OT, were never considered actual separations of God, because they are not, it's just God doing things, but for some reason, Christians decide that the Son the holy Ghost and God are all separate but also one, making a trinity, but strangely, the Christians don't include the other ones, such as the Evil spirit, the lying spirit and the destroyer, why don't you have a "Hexinity"? Why do you reject the other forms but insist in just selecting the 3 of many?

Because trinity is a false man made concept not found in the scripture. Trinity is false.

[Anonymous No.4586072]

>>4586063
>The longest unambiguously documented human lifespan is that of Jeanne Calment of France (1875–1997), who died at age 122 years, 164 days. She met Vincent van Gogh at age 12 or 13.[1] This led to news media attention in 1985, after Calment turned 110. Subsequent investigation found documentation for Calment's age, beyond any reasonable question, in the records of her native city, Arles, France.[2]


Well, I tried to believe.

[Anonymous No.4586074]

Here we have a guy who sends bears to slaughter children for teasing a bald man and whom see fit to kill of every firstborn child in Egypt just to teach a dictator to do as he says.

Anders Behring Breivik is on trial for killing 69 kids. No one even a bit sane denies that he is one evil fuck, not fit to be free, let alone be the omnipotent ruler of the universe.

[Anonymous No.4586075]

>>4586041
it is most certainly in the bible; the word "trinity" is not, but neither is the word "bible"

Jesus is quite clear in saying that He and the Father are One, and prays that the Holy Spirit will bind all of His followers together in the same way that the Father and the Son are bound.

[Anonymous No.4586078]

>>4586043
God did spawn neutron stars errywhere, and much more besides

[Anonymous No.4586081]

>>4586046
there is only one true God; the muhammadans lie and say christians believe in three gods; the muhammadans also lie and say that allah is God

all lies come from the father of lies

[Anonymous No.4586086]

>>4586049
the world was much different back then; there was some sort of separation of the waters above and below the surface of the air, that changed everything; higher pressure, less harmful rays, etc.

and people did not get old at 90 and live to be 900; people were very young at 90, probably not even getting married yet.

it will be that way again, soon.

[Anonymous No.4586087]

>>4586074
If he's god why doesn't he just kill the pharaoh, instead of everyone BUT the pharaoh? Or appear to the pharaoh and talk to him directly? The bible is so fucking retarded I don't know how anyone is stupid enough to take it seriously, much less actually believe it.

But then again we're talking about the same people who believe the pattern on a grilled cheese sandwich is evidence that homosexuality is evil.

[Anonymous No.4586088]

>>4585929
good rule of thumb. any argument from authority is immediately morally and intellectually bankrupt. we can start from there...

[Anonymous No.4586101]

>>4586064
there not only is free will, but there is no counter to the argument that there is free will. in other words, if there were no free will, you would never be aware of that fact.

as an example, let's say you roll a fair 6 sided dice in the dark, and cannot see the outcome. we would agree that before you rolled the die, there was a 1/6 chance of any particular outcome. however, God knew before He created the world that you were going to roll a 4.

did He cause you to roll that die? no, that was your choice. did He manipulate the die? no, He sees the past as the present as the future.

so how then do you not have free will, just because a spectator to your actions is omniscient and omnipresent? His powers do not accrue to you, and therefore do not alter the equation that, to you, of your own free will, you rolled a 4.

[Anonymous No.4586106]

>>4586075
It's not in the Bible.

The OT is immensely opposed to trinity, God is one and INDIVISIBLE, meaning trinity is impossible. Christianity is built upon the OT.

In the NT, trinity is never mentioned, the idea was formulated by bias interpretation afterwards. In fact the early Christians did not believe in the trinity nor did they believe Jesus was God. The NT frequently contradicts the idea of trinity, providing thousands of strange problems which don't make sense in trinity, such as Jesus praying to God, Jesus not knowing what God knows, Jesus not knowing the future (God always knows the future) and more. Apart from the obvious fact that this contradicts trinity, it does even more, because assuming the idea of trinity is true, then the 3 parts are not equal, and if all 3 are one God, then all have to be equal, or else you have polytheism, multiple Gods.

Trinity is a false concept with no basis, it's Christian wishful thinking.

[Anonymous No.4586107]

>>4586065
they were arabs, and they were threatening to kill a prophet of God, and they got pwned by a she-bear.

it's just what happened; i am not "justifying" it, i am just advising that the moral of the story is not to fuck with God or God's prophets

had no bear arrived, you are quite mistaken; they would have killed Elisha. calling a man a fool is equivalent, and inevitably leads to, murder

[Anonymous No.4586109]

>>4586107
The moral of the story is, the Christian God is a sick evil bastard who is clearly false, and only sick evil bastards ascribe to it.

[Anonymous No.4586111]

>>4586071
there is no evil spirit of God

1 Samuel 16:23
New King James Version (NKJV)

23 And so it was, whenever the spirit from God was upon Saul, that David would take a harp and play it with his hand. Then Saul would become refreshed and well, and the distressing spirit would depart from him.

God's spirit chased away the evil spirit plaguing Saul, although it returned, and frequently

[Anonymous No.4586113]

>>4586087

Mhmm. It makes a lot of sense though, if you assume the bible is fiction written by a bunch of angry Hebrews who was jelly of pharaohs power and used their imagination to concoct a tale of how their mighty lord had a cock even bigger than pharaoh, whom himself was a huge dick in their eyes.

[Anonymous No.4586115]

>>4586071
similarly not a lying spirit of God, but a lying spirit recruited and used by God:

20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ 22 The Lord said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the Lord said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’ 23 Therefore look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you.”

[Anonymous No.4586118]

>>4586071
finally, the angel of death killing the egyptian firstborns was not God

Exodus 12:23
New King James Version (NKJV)

23 For the Lord will pass through to strike the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord will pass over the door and not allow the destroyer to come into your houses to strike you.

[Anonymous No.4586120]

>>4586086
>>4585947
>>4585938

you sound like a nut bag

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

make a start if you be so kind. some of them are pretty ordinary but why would someone so omnipotent let someone so feeble copy down the account of his creation and (apparent) son's life.

In fact i dont see why god happened to make Shakespeare a better writer than himself.

[Anonymous No.4586121]

>>4586072
the meeting with van Gogh was proven to be false; she pinned her story to his appearance in Paris, but it was merely a lie

[Anonymous No.4586123]

Report this faggot.

[Anonymous No.4586119]

>>4586078
Yeah, no, only neutron stars.
All the rest is garbage.

[Anonymous No.4586128]

>>4586074
thought he killed 77

anyways, the mob of adolescents were going to kill Elisha, and were themselves killed by a bear

you can keep crying about the mob, but it won't be anything but what it was

awesome bear pwnage

[Anonymous No.4586131]

>>4586086
Not sure about the again, but it will be that way soon yes.

[Anonymous No.4586135]

>>4586087
He did kill the pharoah, eventually, in the Red Sea, him and all his chariots, and all his warriors

and the world trembled in fear at what the God of Hosts had done

and yet here you sit, blithely challenging Him to a pissing contest

[Anonymous No.4586137]

Religatards. Always making me smile

[Anonymous No.4586138]

>>4586137
You forgot your sage, imposter.

[Anonymous No.4586140]

>>4586088
that's an interesting point for anarchy, but really has no bearing in any conversation about God

if one defines God as a being who can create a universe from nothing, God is necessarily the authority on what is, and is not, possible, acceptable, and good.

[Anonymous No.4586143]

>>4586135
I watched The Ten Commandments and the pharaoh survived the Red Sea closing.

[Anonymous No.4586145]

>>4586107

>>"calling a man a fool is equivalent, and inevitably leads to murder"

Wow. just... wow... I don't know how many people I am about to kill if that had like even a remote connection to reality. Needless to say, you are on that hit-list because you sir are a fool in every sense of the word

[Anonymous No.4586147]

>>4586111
>>4586115
>>4586118
Not in your Christian bibles, but in the Tanakh. (The old testament is changed to fit Christian views)

[Anonymous No.4586149]

>>4586137
Geuss what: You are more retarded than all of them. If you honestly believe there are christians or atheists on /sci/, you are mentally impaired.

[Anonymous No.4586151]

>>4586135
We have the means to destroy the planet right now.
RKV.
What you describe is pitiful in comparison.

[Anonymous No.4586161]

>/sci/ - Science & Math
>100 replies to a religion thread
Never change, 4chan.

[Anonymous No.4586167]

>>4586106
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all in the bible, and their relationship is quite clear. the word "trinity", much like the word "rapture", has caused you to err

however, i would be lying if i said i completely understood the triune nature of Almighty God Himself

[Anonymous No.4586171]

>>4586109
what evidence, if any, do you have to support these statements?

[Anonymous No.4586174]

anyone that can believe there is an intervening god mystify me to my very core. its as if people cannot accept that there may be no after life, or that they arent special and constantly looked after.

clearly he tends to look after citizens in countries who have developed technology through scientific principles and formed relatively secular laws. ignoring the faithful but underdeveloped millions dying every year...

[Anonymous No.4586176]

>>4586101
>there not only is free will, but there is no counter to the argument that there is free will.
I just gave you a set of conditions that would render true free will literally, logically impossible in the very post you quoted. Omnipotence and omniscience of the creator render his creations unable to ever act as truly free agents.

>did He cause you to roll that die?
Yes. There's nothing in the universe he created that he did not cause.
>no, that was your choice.
No, I could not have possibly chosen to act in any way other than according to god's will.
>did He manipulate the die? no, He sees the past as the present as the future.
And he also *created* the past, the present and the future.

>just because a spectator to your actions is omniscient and omnipresent?
He's not merely a spectator, he's the unmoved mover, the ultimate causal factor, the ultimate manipulator, the ultimate bearer of responsibility.

Sorry, but you cannot make a logical argument for both, free agency of the creation on one hand, and omniscience and omnipotence of the creator on the other. These two things are simply mutually exclusive. If you want to make an argument for a personal creator god whose creation is also able to somehow act outside his framework of cause and effect in ways he would not explicitly or implicitly allow, then you only have two choices: Declare man omnipotent as well, or reduce god's powers.

[Anonymous No.4586177]

>>4586113
what if you take the bible as true?

what conclusions can you reach about God then?

[Anonymous No.4586180]

>>4586167
Just because Jesus the holy spirit and God are mentioned does not make a trinity.

The word trinity is never used despite it being an existent Greek word. In fact, the entire trinity is taken from loose interpretations, and there are thousands of solid contradictions and problems with trinity in the Bible. Which you are cleverly ignoring.

Answer me this, in the Trinity, all three parts are Equal, how ever, Jesus Christ is clearly unequal to God, as evidence by the fact that he does not know the future, he has to pray to God, he begs God to save him etc. So Trinity is proved false by this.

[Anonymous No.4586181]

>>4586119
it's hard to have a decent conversation with a neutron star, i would imagine

[Anonymous No.4586184]

>>4586120
He didn't; the bible outsells Shakespeare every year, and for all time, with huge questions as to who actually put pen to paper, or whether there was a William Shakespeare per se

and who worships Shakespeare? who counts on Shakespeare to get them into the afterlife?

[Anonymous No.4586188]

>>4586167

Yes, their relationship is quite clear. The Father is the father, the Son is the son, and the Holy Ghost is holy spirit. Show me where the Bible even implies a trinity.

Look at it this way. No man can see God and live, correct? Men saw Jesus and holy spirit, but never the Father.

The trinity did not resurrect itself.

The trinity did not forsake itself.

The trinity did not create itself.

[Anonymous No.4586191]

>>4586120
hell of an admission of inerrancy right from the start:

[Editor's note: Not everyone will agree that all of the listed "contradictions" are, in fact, contradictions. It is therefore up to the reader to use his/her own intelligence and decide for himself/herself what s/he can and will accept as a contradiction. In other words, you need not agree with what Meritt sees as a problem or contradiction. It should be kept in mind, however, that a perfect, omnipotent, and omniscient god would reasonably be expected to have done a better job of it than the Bible had such a god inspired a book. In any case, lists such as this can be useful in serving as a springboard for further study. For more, see also: Biblical Errancy and Biblical Criticism.]

in other words, the following items are only contradictions or errors if you make certain assumptions, or want them to be

[Anonymous No.4586192]

>>4586181
God is timeless, he was alone for infinity+1 hours.
He can manage.

[Anonymous No.4586193]

The interesting things about Christians is how they claim to be the one having morality and then they go about defending genocide of children and just general cruelty because it is within gods authority to whatever he decides.

As an atheist it really boggles the mind to be accused of being immoral by someone defending such behavior. I can understand deism to a degree but what you are doing believing in a book from the bronze age clearly written by morally corrupt vengeance thirsting pushovers like what they say is cool is so far from understandable that it saddens me deeply to be a member of this species.

[Anonymous No.4586195]

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS FUCKING THREAD.
JUST REPORT THE FUCKING TROLL.

[Anonymous No.4586199]

>>4586111
Confirmed liar.
That is not the New King James.
>And so it was, whenever the spirit from God was upon Saul, that David would take a harp and play it with his hand. Then Saul would become refreshed and well, and the distressing spirit would depart from him.

This is the real one.
>And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
Love how you cleverly removed the part which defeats your argument.

[Anonymous No.4586200]

>>4586120
dude, he self-destructed his very first "contradiction":

[Editor's note: Some readers have raised an objection to this alleged contradiction. They point out that PSA 145:20 states that The Lord keeps all who love Him, but that He will destroy the wicked. In other words, some see no contradiction between "The Lord is good to all" and JER 13:14. Others contend, however, that even if the Lord destroys the wicked he could do so with compassion, pity, and mercy. Further, there are biblical examples that indicate that the Lord is not necessarily "good" or merciful--even to those who are not wicked. One such example is Job. As one reader points out, "If Psalm 145:9 was not a contradiction of Psalm 145:20 or Jeremiah 13:14, it would read something like this: "The LORD is good to all, except the wicked: and his tender mercies are over all his works, except when He is punishing the wicked." In any case, the idea that the Lord is good and merciful is contradicted by countless examples in the Bible where God orders the destruction of infants, personally kills David's infant child, etc.]

[Anonymous No.4586204]

>>4586131
mankind has striven for this for centuries, yet it has been predicted in the "anti-science" bible for thousands of years

it will come to be, but not before Jesus sits on His throne in Jerusalem

[Anonymous No.4586210]

MAtthew 27:28-29
>And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
John 19:2-3
>And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe, And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

[Anonymous No.4586212]

>>4586176
no point mate. delusional idiot wants to be controlled by an absolute master. and justifies it by thinking it will cause him to live forever. couldnt think of a worse deal. mental slavery for 80 odd years (doubled in less than 500 years thanks to science and medicine, anyone who thinks we lived longer is talking out of their arse) then eternity as a slave in heaven.

WHO COULD WANT THIS TO BE TRUE?!?!

luckily there is not a shred of evidence to support these claims.

[Anonymous No.4586216]

>>4586204
People die, people don't like dying, they wrote somewhere that some day they will not die anymore.

What.
A.
Surprise.

On a sidenote, so you are a royalist?
You know what we do to kings?

[Anonymous No.4586217]

>>4586120
have you read these? they are really weak; for instance, they compare the geneologies of Jesus in one place through his stepfather, and in the other through his mother. and in one, it is so and so begat so and so, and the other is so and so from so and so;

The reason Joseph is said to be the “son” of Heli (Mary’s father) brings forth a seventh consideration: the Jewish use of “son.” Hebrews used the word in at least five distinct senses: (1) in the sense used today of a one-generation offspring; (2) in the sense of a descendant, whether a grandson or a more remote descendant many generations previous, e.g., Matthew 1:1; 21:9; 22:42 (“begat” had this same flexibility in application); (3) as a son-in-law (the Jews had no word to express this concept and so just used “son”—e.g., 1 Samuel 24:16; 26:17); (4) in accordance with the Levirate marriage law (Deuteronomy 25:5-10; cf. Matthew 22:24-26), a deceased man would have a son through a surrogate father who legally married the deceased man’s widow (e.g., Ruth 2:20; 3:9,12; 4:3-5); and (5) in the sense of a step-son who took on the legal status of his step-father—the relationship sustained by Jesus to Joseph (Matthew 13:55; Mark 6:3; Luke 3:23; 4:22; John 6:42).

[Anonymous No.4586218]

Shut. The fuck up.

[Anonymous No.4586221]

>>4586145
i forgive you, and yes, everyone thinks they ducked the "Thou Shalt Not Murder" commandment, but Jesus said calling someone a fool is the equivalent to murder, and hating someone for no reason (prejudice) is also murder.

everyone is a murderer. everyone.

[Anonymous No.4586222]

Jesus was not a Jew but a Canaanite, the book advocates the genocide of Canaanites.

The Jews were right all along.

[OP No.4586224]

This religious troll is masturbating irl as he writes these messages I swear it, however seeing as I don't think he actually believes what he is saying I don't find it offensive.

[Anonymous No.4586225]

>>4586147
the old testament and the jewish scriptures are recognized by both religions as being identical; not so much with the talmud and church traditions, of course, but for all intents and purposes, christians are jews who have accepted the jewish messiah as LORD

[Anonymous No.4586227]

>>4586149
i am a christian, and many profess to be atheists. i would agree with you, however, that not everyone who makes either claim is correct

[Anonymous No.4586230]

Christians have to follow the 10 commandments.

Number 2/4 is, do not draw God or make any idols representing God.

Christians have clearly ignored this commandment. They often try to change the commandment, to say it means do not make false idols, but it clearly does not, as proven by posting the actual text of the commandment.

>Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

But as you can see by this image, they change it to hide their hypocrisy with all the drawings of God.

[Anonymous No.4586231]

>>4586151
the destruction of the planet is already planned out, and contained in prophecies that are coming true year by year

soon, this entire universe will detonate, leaving nothing, and we will all have moved on, either to heaven, or to hell

and we all choose where we spend eternity for ourselves

[Anonymous No.4586233]

>>4586161
i love this place; people seeking knowledge either by revealed truth or empirical study

[Anonymous No.4586235]

>>4586225
They are not identical. The old testament is watered down. The Tanakh is rather offensive to none Jews, the old testament changes the words.

[Anonymous No.4586236]

If there is a God.. MAY HE SMITE EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD DEAD, I challenge you christian god! make me blind or something, give me cancer or send bears to fucking MAUL all my offspring

[Anonymous No.4586237]

>>4586174
all are His children, and all of the choices made in past generations come to fruition

we all reap what we sow; if we reap chaos and destruction, we are destroyed

[Anonymous No.4586238]

>>4586149
>If you honestly believe there are christians or atheists on /sci/...
Uhm, yeah, I most definitely am an atheist. I do not believe in any deities.

[Anonymous No.4586244]

>>4586176
they most certainly do exist, and are real, just as intended.

just because God has one set of attributes and you have another, does not nullify either, despite your insistance that they must do so

you do not know what God knows; therefore, your future is dim to you, but clear to God

you do not know what you will do a year from now, but God knows

not only consistent, but real. that is the way things are. He knows what He knows, and tells us what we can bear. sometimes a little more than we can bear.

He gave us free will so that we could choose to love Him; He is the God of Love, not the God of Rape

[Anonymous No.4586245]

>>4586236
You know there's a high chance you'll develop cancer one day.
Although if it's prostate cancer you're now in luck.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2130824/Sound-wave-treatment-zaps-prostate-tumours-debilit
ating-effects.html

[Anonymous No.4586250]

>>4586180
Jesus said I and the Father are One
Jesus said if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father
Jesus said if you do not have Me, you do not have the Father
Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes to the Father but by me.

Jesus received the death sentence for saying that before Abraham was, I Am. Jesus therefore said that He was God, a claim that, if untrue, was blasphemy.

as to the relationship between the triune natures of a supernatural God, i confess i do not, and do not expect in this lifetime, to fully understand it.

what i do understand, however, is that Jesus prayed to the Father that i be bound to Him as He is to the Father, through the binding of the Holy Spirit.

this verse is a mystery: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[Anonymous No.4586253]

>>4586250
You're just ignoring all the questions and problems i posed.

Trinity is false because it is full of holes and problems. Trinity is false because the early Christians didn't believe in it.

[Anonymous No.4586265]

>>4586188
you are saying that God in three forms has different attributes, which is trivial

you then are making the claim that all three cannot be equal, which is impossible to know, or to prove, or really to understand

Jesus existed before He was born, because after He rose from the dead, He is unbound. Jesus walked with Adam in the Garden of Eden. Jesus wrestled Jacob. Jesus was in the fiery furnace with Meshack, Shadrack and Abednego. Jesus is God, and not subject to the limitations we are.

Jesus also said that He had to go to heaven in order for the Holy Spirit to come down and be the comforter. yet, in the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist, we see the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, in one picture.

there are differences that i am aware of. the Father knows when the Son can come and get His bride, and none other. the Son knows His new name, and none other. and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable, although blasphemy against the Father or Son is not.

one triune God, revealed in three persons.

[Anonymous No.4586271]

>>4586193
man killing man

God killing man

there is simply no moral equivalence, and if you cannot tell the difference between the two, you're doing it wrong. if you are telling God He has no right to discard things He made, you are in danger of hellfire yourself

[Anonymous No.4586273]

>>4586245

Yeah that's true, cancer is pretty lame as a request of the alleged psycho dad in heaven. But maybe he can like give me all types of cancer at the same time or something, you know, so it feel like supernatural and shit. Like that Kafka book with the cockroach, but instead I'm a giant tumor.

[Anonymous No.4586276]

>>4586199
i quoted the new king james; not sure what you quoted, but i just copy pasta'd it.

also, not sure what your point is; the spirit troubling Saul was not God; God is not driven away by the playing of a harp

[Anonymous No.4586281]

>>4586199
you quoted the king james dude:

1 Samuel 16:23
King James Version (KJV)

23And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

[Anonymous No.4586287]

>>4586210
i have an apple
i have an apple and a pear

do you see where these two statements do not contradict each other?

or is "scarlet" and "purple" your problem with accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?

[Anonymous No.4586288]

>>4586271

Really sad that people actually think like this.

[Anonymous No.4586289]

>>4586265
Are you/were you a Seventh-Day Adventist?

[Anonymous No.4586291]

>>4586271

So am I to understand that if God were to fly one comet into New York city and one comet into the pentagon, and another three into a children's hospital, a VA clinic and a retirement home, you would say "His will be done!" like what you just witnessed was a act of great morality? And you are comfortable with this?

[Anonymous No.4586293]

>>4586212
we are both going to live forever

it's just the accommodations that will be different

[Anonymous No.4586294]

>>4586244
>just because God has one set of attributes and you have another, does not nullify either,
I didn't say that. I said that omnipotence of the creator is in logical contradiction to the free will of his creation.
>despite your insistance that they must do so
It's not my insistence that proves my point, but the mere logical fact that, if counter-causal agency is not possible (which it isn't, if you presuppose god's omniscience and omnipotence), then the agency is not free. If you want to disagree, then stop babbling around and give me an actual argument that directly addresses mine.

>you do not know what God knows; therefore, your future is dim to you, but clear to God
Okay. Point remains: God is omnipotent, therefore, the creation cannot act as a free agent. Ever. It is impossible for it to act outside of god's explicit or implicit will. Nothing the creation does could ever possibly be in contradiction to the will of an all-powerful creator, because this would render the creator *not* all-powerful.

>He gave us free will so that we could choose to love Him
When he created mankind, he deliberately designed us with the foreknowledge of whether or not we'd choose to love him, therefore, we make this choice by his design, not of our own free will.

[Anonymous No.4586295]

>>4586184
Harry potter has 450 million making it biggest selling series of all time. that must mean its the best right? because its so popular? Just because the bible has probably been printed 3 billion times or so (then largely given out for free - not sold i might add) does not mean it is better.

Shakespeare scholars generally have consensus on most works due to the skill, style and similar themes though i would be happy to argue their veracity. Why a bible fan is deciding to question accuracy of documents and their authors is an interesting phenomenon.

As for worshipping, no I dont pray to shakespeare but I do not need to. I can read and watch his work and it astounds me how someone could portray humour tragedy wit and morality with such ability.

Your last comment betrays something about yourself. I do not want heaven nor would I define my actions based upon trying to get into heaven. I am a good person (as far as i can tell and on whose basis only i can judge) for the sake of being good. i do not do it for rewards and you should do the same.

[Anonymous No.4586297]

>>4586216
in the sense that Jesus is the King of Kings, yes

the earthly type, not so much

[Anonymous No.4586301]

>>4586218
God is ready, able, and willing to eradicate all evil from the universe, and will do so, on His timetable, just as He said He would

stale copy pasta dude

[Anonymous No.4586303]

>>4586222
Jesus was in fact of the City of David, as prophecied, and never a caananite; a Nazarene.

a humble man from humble beginnings, who rocked the world

so curious

[Anonymous No.4586304]

>>4586224
if by believes, you mean know it to be true, and sorrowful that so many of you are choosing ignorance and eternal damnation, then yes

[Anonymous No.4586308]

>>4586301
>on His timetable
Which still means that he's either unable or unwilling to do it now. Stale copypaste remains valid.

[Anonymous No.4586309]

>>4586230
all people have broken all ten commandments, repeatedly

the punishment for breaking even the smallest commandment is eternal damnation

the Law never made anyone perfect; it points out how imperfect we are, and how much in need of a savior

Nobody but Jesus deserves to go to heaven.

[Anonymous No.4586311]

Why are you faggots responding to this blatant trolling no one on the internet is a religiousfag so just stop taking the faggot atheist troll bait.
Sage this dumb shit or I'll start posting ponies.

[Anonymous No.4586314]

>>4586311
>Sage this dumb shit or I'll start posting ponies.
Please do so. It's god's will anyway.

[Anonymous No.4586315]

>>4586235
the jews 2000 years ago did not know their scriptures; now, without a temple, and without any animal sacrifices, they have basically abandoned God, even though He has kept His part of the bargain and placed them back in the Holy Land.

when the Temple is rebuilt, and the sacrifices resumed, and the enemies of God killed by God Himself, the scales will fall from their eyes, and they will open them and see their Messiah, whom they slayed, and they will return to Him

[Anonymous No.4586316]

>>4586236
God will kill everyone in this thread.

have some patience.

[Anonymous No.4586317]

>>4585889

>what if the moon were square

Protip: the fact that you can form an idea into a grammatically correct interrogative clause does not mean that the question has meaning.

The thing about hypothetical questions is that their basic premises have to be compatible. I presume that you’re asking about a scenario governed by the same rules of reality. Since it’s quite thoroughly impossible for the god described in the Bible actually to exist according to the rules of our reality, you’re essentially asking a question that takes P&!P as its dependency.

Such a question is, of course, utterly meaningless.

[Anonymous No.4586323]

>>4586253
i answered your questions from the bible; what more can i do?

and if you think the early christians had their shit locked down tight, you really need to re-read Paul's letters to them.

Let’s look at a few fundamental statements:

+ The Trinity is not just a way of looking at how God works.

+ God is and always has been three distinct persons.

+ No person of the Trinity ever acts independently of the others

+ The three persons comprise one God.

* Each person of the Trinity is fully God; no person of the Trinity is more God or less God than any other person.

* Each person of the Trinity has the same attributes as are spoken of as belonging to God as a whole

[Anonymous No.4586324]

>>4586323
>i answered your questions from the bible; what more can i do?
That really made me laugh.

[Anonymous No.4586325]

>>4586253
While the Bible never explains exactly how it works, The notion of one God in three persons, Father, Son, And Holy Spirit is central to Christian belief. Nowhere in the Bible is this explained in a way that brings understanding to our human minds with their inherent limitations.

They are not just one in purpose or in species, but are one in being. Especially where Jesus is concerned, there is great emphasis on the fact that Father and Son are one, with Jesus being the visible image of the invisible God, as Paul put it in Colossians 1:15. Hebrews 1:8-9 has God calling Jesus God. John 1:1-2 agrees, and Jesus Himself said so in John 10:30.

[Anonymous No.4586329]

>>4586289
no

[Anonymous No.4586330]

>>4585973
The Epicurus quote is fucking retarded. Im sorry, but trying to give morality, human morality to a fucking GOD is beyond stupidity.

Humans and their ego.

[Anonymous No.4586332]

>>4586323
You're completely ignoring the fact that just because the parts Christians have made trinity up of does not mean the bible speaks of trinity.
Jesus clearly denies being God.

[Anonymous No.4586334]

>>4586291
God says He is the author of calamities, like earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, etc.

i can't wrap my head around "are you okay with this?"; i can only tell you that i know God, and that all things work together for good, to those who know God, and are called according to His purpose

in other words, not everything is good, but everything He turns to good, eventually, and that i'm really okay with

[Anonymous No.4586336]

>>4586316
Sadly we are all most probably going to end up in hell together, we can talk about this then. (even the religious fags)

[Anonymous No.4586339]

>>4586294
I have to take off. Wish you had responded to this sooner. Maybe some other time.

[Anonymous No.4586347]

Sure is butthurt atheist keyboard warrior in here.

"hurrr i dun need god i'm so dark and edgy durrr xxcorexx"

[Anonymous No.4586346]

>>4586294
i think we're talking past each other, and will have to agree to disagree, but i am willing to make another attempt

>I didn't say that. I said that omnipotence of the creator is in logical contradiction to the free will of his creation.
it is not, as God's knowledge is not known by His creation, and thus cannot be an influencing factor in the creation's decision making

the agency is free to make whatever choices it can; however, that agency can never surprise God with its choices. you can, however, please God, or not, with your choices, which is why you have that ability to begin with.

it's all about Him, not us.

>Okay. Point remains: God is omnipotent, therefore, the creation cannot act as a free agent. Ever.
that is a non-sequitur; that mankind cannot successfully oppose God is not a question of free will, but of power and might; God will deny us that power and might to destroy Him. He has in the past, and He will in the future.

He knows us better than we know ourselves, and knows how wicked we can be, and will be, if we are not restrained in some way.

but merely repeating that we don't have free will because God knows what we will do with our free will is simply not understanding the nature of God

[Anonymous No.4586350]

>>4586311

in b4 ponies - with divine murder bears.

[Anonymous No.4586351]

>>4586346
No, the agency thinks it is free to make whatever choice it wants. It can't go against god's knowledge, therefore it's not truly free. Free will doesn't have limitations.

[Anonymous No.4586352]

>>4586295
you are not a good person. i do not mean to slight you in any way by saying that, but objectively, you only think you are a good person.

you are completely unaware to what standards you are being held, so you are imposing a relative standard instead, and one that has no meaning.

just because you can jump further than i can does not mean you can jump to the horsehead nebulae, which, in absolute terms, would be easier than keeping all of God's Laws.

so, to you, you are a good person; to other people, you are a good person; to God, you are a sinner in need of salvation

[Anonymous No.4586362]

>>4586308
two of His qualities are patience and long-suffering, and it is not His will that any should perish

right now, christiandom is waiting for the last person to be saved in this age of grace, and then the rapture, the tribulation, the Kingdom of God on earth, the last battle, and then eternity.

heady times indeed

[Anonymous No.4586364]

>>4586311
u mad bro?

[Anonymous No.4586366]

When peak oil hits us, the internet will be shut down and you faggots have to go to church for threads like this.

[Anonymous No.4586368]

>>4586317
it's impossible for God not to exist as described in the bible

you have an impressive vocabulary, but a really poor grasp on reality

[Anonymous No.4586375]

>>4586332
Jesus clearly states He is God when He was on trial for His life on the charges that He stated He was God

and then rose from the dead on the third day, proving that He was God

and creating the heavens and the earth, entitling Him to the title of God

and conquering death and the grave, so that we might live through Him

[Anonymous No.4586378]

>>4586336
how much talking do you think is going to go on while you're treading lava in an infinite lake of fire?

and i for one know for sure i am going to heaven, and you can too, by stating that Jesus is Lord, and believing in your heart that God raised Him from the dead

it's a gift to you, and that's your part of accepting the gift

[Anonymous No.4586381]

>>4586293
a part of me will live on yes. when my body dies i will decompose and bacteria will feast on my flesh. They may become source of food for plants and animals and may be one day humans clever enough to not be fooled with promises of eternity or threatened with the abhorrent fake concept of hell for eating the wrong food, or loving the wrong person.

Even my chemical composition will remain and the elements be spread about this earth and even further, consumed by the stars that once allowed life to begin by exploding their enriched furnaces upon this galaxy.

Or you can sit with jesus and talk about his dad issues. ("explain again why i had to be sacrificed to save people who you can control anyway?") til the end of time..........

Which is the more inviting option? which is the more realistic? What is it that you fear from death so much that you would buy into this garbage?

let it go. hell isnt real and if it is, it will be more fun than praising a creator for eternity, who for all intensive purposes was just doing his job anyway...

[Anonymous No.4586408]

>>4586350

divine pwning bears > ponies

[Anonymous No.4586410]

4chan rules - no religion vs science threads ...

it always ends up with butthurt atheists getting mad and trolling ...

stay on topic please - just science and math

[Anonymous No.4586412]

>>4586351
free will has tremendous limitations

you cannot choose to jump to the moon

[Anonymous No.4586421]

>>4586381
the more inviting is to take God's invitation to enter into paradise through the sacrifice of His Son

the realistic is that most people will fail to do so and will end up in the univesal incinerator

your fantasy that you die and then nothing is just that; a fantasy.

because that would be preferable to hell

[Anonymous No.4586423]

>>4586410
good thing this is not a science vs. religion thread then

[Anonymous No.4586432]

>>4586352
but I need to be judged by myself and those around me. I cannot be judged by a creator. if you are right the creator made me in such a way that i am unable to believe in its existence. it has damned me from the start, my brain works on the basis of empirical study and reasoning and scientific explanation. I cant change the way my brain works anymore than i can jump to that nebula.

If your main argument is that i need salvation and therefore must believe in god, i could try, but i would be lying to myself. and on my supposed judgement god will know that i lied to myself throughout the rest of my life and reject me anyway.

I am in a terrible position. However i have a solution. i can reject the god hypothesis as not true, as a fiction to persuade people to be better and punish those who do not obey. it has some very interesting side notes and history but in essence a fiction.

tell me do you think muhammad is the true prophet?

[Anonymous No.4586454]

>>4586432
God wrote His Law in your heart; gave you a measure of faith, and a brain. you have enough evidence to believe in God.

Jesus, the only man born of a virgin, performed many miracles, made many prophecies, was publically executed, and rose from the dead on the third day, as He predicted. you have enough evidence to believe Jesus is who He says He is.

and of course i do not believe mohammad is a prophet of God; he is clearly a madman deceived by satan, and even on a personal level, a murderer, and a 54 year old man who married a 6 year old girl.

there was a reason mohammad's family abandoned him as a child

[Anonymous No.4586471]

>>4586421
>>4586421
But i dont see why, paradise is a construct of man because we cannot truly know what lies beyond death. To live forever would be a punishment. it would be boring after say the first ten millenia... then you have the next thousand and then then next million.... all the while you are confined to an area of constant prayer and thankfulness to god. it would bore me to death.

you refer to hell alot, are you happy there is a hell? why do like to think of others tortured for eternity? is that not the worse possible fate imaginable upon another human and thus make you the worst possible human that has ever thought? god might put you there just because you relish in thinking about it so much...

[Anonymous No.4586479]

In christianity in the bible, Jesus says a comforter will be sent in the future, called Ahmad [aka Muhammad] or something

i cant remember exactly but it was taken from a lecture by an muslim scholar

http://www.islamworld.net/docs/Muhammad.in.Bible.html

Im sure i saw a video of it somewhere too lemme go check

wow its a long video - lecture http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhazm0UdlTc

just in case you are interested

[Anonymous No.4586496]

>>4586454
But i dont know of any evidence to support jesus claims. all i have is a book. i also have shakespeare. should i start trying to look up juliet? or idolise hamlet?
I dont think he performed miracles. like walking on water. maybe he was very good on ice skates?

But on whose authority do you say muhammad is not the prophet? or did not perform miracles and was the arbiter of the final revelation through gabriel?

Likewise is zeus not the creator of the universe?

[Anonymous No.4586515]

>>4586471
the older i get, the more i understand why there is a hell, but no, i am not happy there is a hell, except to the extent that it does what it was intended to do: hold satan and his fallen angels away from me forever.

and that word "forever" is not a long time in a timeless dimension; it is merely "now", with seasons added for variety. heaven was made for those people who come to the saving grace of Jesus Christ, and it is better than anything we can imagine.

so imagine the best thing heaven could possibly be, and know that your guess is pedantic

me, i wanna surf event horizons and make tribbles

spending forever with the greatest being in the universe? a Creator who has just begun to create?

oh my yes, please

[Anonymous No.4586518]

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[Anonymous No.4586520]

>>4586479
i know. one of the many heresies of islam. the comforter is the Holy Spirit, and none other, and the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles on the Day of Pentecost, a few days after Jesus ascended to heaven.

on the bright side, Jesus Himself is appearing in many muslim's dreams, and many are responding to Him. the dream is always the same; a man clothed in white, face obscured, with His arms open and inviting.

Jesus is not only alive, but He is busy, as always.

[Anonymous No.4586522]

>>4586518
Why? The thread is not against the rules.

[Anonymous No.4586528]

Wth is this, this is supposed to be /sci/, not some people talking about their scientifically contradicted fairytales. GTFO

[Anonymous No.4586532]

>>4586522

[Anonymous No.4586533]

>>4586496
you can choose to throw out all the evidence in the bible and then claim there is no evidence; that is your right as a free willed individual

i see no profit in that

>But i dont know of any evidence to support jesus claims. all i have is a book. i also have shakespeare. should i start trying to look up juliet? or idolise hamlet?
was shakespeare introduced to you in any other way than a poet? a bard? then why would you take him for God?

>I dont think he performed miracles. like walking on water. maybe he was very good on ice skates?
or maybe He had control over nature in ways that violate all of our physical laws; laws, incidentally, that He established, and that through His faithfulness, are reliable.

>But on whose authority do you say muhammad is not the prophet? or did not perform miracles and was the arbiter of the final revelation through gabriel?
Paul's. Paul warned us that any man teaching any other Jesus than the one in the bible is a false teacher, and that if any man, or even angel, taught a different Jesus, a different salvation, that person is damned forever. mohammad and joe smith have a lot in common.

>Likewise is zeus not the creator of the universe?
Zeus and Hera appear carved on the Parthenon in Greece aside an apple tree with one apple on it, and a serpent twined around that tree.

does that imagry suggest anything to you?

[Anonymous No.4586538]

further, Gabrial, an archangel, could not retain his estate and tell a man, mohammad, that Jesus was just a man, just a prophet like Moses or mohammad.

Gabriel, the real Gabriel, knows exactly who Jesus is, and lives in heaven with Jesus.

the angel that told mohammad he was Gabriel was lucifer

the angel that told joe smith he was moroni was lucifer

and billions were deceived

[Anonymous No.4586534]

>>4586532
The rules say "no religion vs science threads". This thread is not "religion vs science", it's religion only.

[Anonymous No.4586540]

>>4586496
finally, you can directly communicate with Jesus, as He is alive, and He is God. He is not deaf; He can hear you. He is not far away; He can reach you.

if you seek Him, you will find Him.

[Anonymous No.4586542]

[Anonymous No.4586543]

[Anonymous No.4586546]

>>4586528
we have no evidence of scientifically proven contradictions to these so-called fairy tales

if you would like to provide some, i would enjoy seeing them

i do, in the final analysis, worship The Truth

[Anonymous No.4586548]

[Anonymous No.4586551]

[Anonymous No.4586552]

>>4586542
i'll take Sir Isaac Newton over Voltaire every day of the week

[Anonymous No.4586553]

so much teenage angst in this thread.

>YEAH, WELL, IF GOD WAS REAL I'D KICK HIS ASS

no you wouldn't, even in the reality you know now you couldn't kick your ass out of a wet paper bag pussy.

Why would god be any different than that alpha whose dick has squirted all over your crush's faces?

[Anonymous No.4586558]

have fun with your skydaddy all you want, just get out of /sci/

[Anonymous No.4586559]

>>4586548
a descent into hell is not my idea of a vacation

[Anonymous No.4586563]

>>4586551

>implying knowledge = truth

[Anonymous No.4586564]

>>4586558
where i come from, snitches get stiches

you would not have lasted there very long

[Anonymous No.4586572]

Xtians, listen we had it all wrong! We should be thanking lucifer for he made the ultimate sacrifice! He wanted us to not be mindless slaves but to pursue knowledge. He is the real sufferer of our sins by being punished by God while Jesus was just tortured for a few days and became resurrected.

HAIL SATAN 616 616 616 616 616 616

[Anonymous No.4586573]

>>4586558

no, you mean..... I'll have to hop on my neighbors wifi for 2 minutes while my dsl modem resets?

OMG!!! OMG!! THE UNIMAGINABLE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.4586574]

>>4586551
>>4586548
>>4586543
>>4586542
Wow, Moses is one smooth fucker

[Anonymous No.4586578]

>>4586553
Dat projecting

[Anonymous No.4586581]

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[Anonymous No.4586582]

>>4586558

if god's not real why does his existence scare you?

[Anonymous No.4586584]

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[Anonymous No.4586587]

if god's not real then why are you guys afraid of hell?