Challenger Deep mission is imminent.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464621]

www.deepseachallenge.com

Before this month is out, a cutting edge next gen sub named the Deepsea Challenger piloted by James Cameron will make the seven mile, two hour descent into the deepest known trench in our global ocean. Man will return for the first time in fifty years, this time with the technology needed to make it count. Where the Trieste sat motionless in an opaque cloud of silt for 20 minutes, with a cracked window and in very real danger of implosion, the Deepsea Challenger will remain for six full hours, gathering samples not just of the organic "diatomous ooze" which comprises the ocean floor in the Marianas Trench but possibly of whatever lies beneath it, and living organisms as well. It has limited mobility, "flying around like a seahorse" at low speeds permitting exploration of multiple sites at depth, recording everything in ultra HD 3D using twin Epic Red cameras, for an Imax 3D documentary to be released afterward. The world will have a chance to immersively experience our generation's equivalent of the Apollo moon landing in giant screen high def digital 3D. And this is only the first of five trenches to be explored, and only one of four subs that will do so.

The golden era of deep sea exploration is upon us. Tell people you know. Friends, family, spread the news of this historic mission. Everyone should understand the science and exploration significance of going from a single sub capable of 2.5 mile depths to four with true "full ocean depth" capability, essentially overnight. This is a big deal for deep sea exploration and for humankind in general.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464633]

This is how Walsh and Piccard made the first trip. A five hour descent, a cracked window that shook the entire hull, zero visibility, no footage taken, no samples gathered, only one site visited and just 20 minutes on the bottom.

It was a stunt. We weren't ready. It was a triumph simply to survive to tell the tale.

[SAGEGOESINALLFIELDS No.4464637]

Looking forward to see what's going to pop up!

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464639]

We have come a long way since then. Learned the principles of saturation and decompression, established 70 undersea labs worldwide including the first undersea colony (Conshelf II) although today only four remain, though massive luxury colonies and resorts will soon take their place, alongside the growing numbers of undersea hotels, restaurants, spas, observatories and resorts. We are no longer infants in the sea, it is a place we not only survive but vacation and dine in, millions enjoy Scuba and submarine tours. We have come into our own as a subsea faring species with massive nuclear submarines carrying crews of over 100 at previously unthinkable speeds around the world. And now we have the battery technology, the life support, propulsion, materials, robotics, cameras and computers to return as conquerors; not merely to huddle in fear as the hull groans under stress, windows crack and a silt cloud blocks our view but to sail elegantly along the Challenger Deep illuminating everything with arc lamps, recording every detail in breathtaking 3D clarity, sampling minerals and lifeforms, descending in less than half the time and staying eighteen times as long. We're ready now.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464652]

The ocean remains an alien wilderness, still more than 95% unexplored. Every time we send an expedition into the deep, multiple new species are discovered. Often just variations on known species, but also sometimes the truly strange, like grapefruit sizes ameobas, mile-long siphonophorae, jellyfish six feet in diameter and some things that seem to defy classification.

It is here that we found the only biologically immortal creatures on Earth, including a species of jellyfish capable of returning to juvenile form. The sea may literally hold the secret of reversing aging, a metaphorical holy grail, as if the seemingly endless bizarre creature discoveries weren't enough.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464655]

Nowhere else can you find creatures like this, like something from a dream. Like an abstract painting come to life, with an incoherent body plan and no obvious organs or any clear mechanism for how it can be alive.

The more we explore and the deeper we go the less sense it makes; deep coral weren't supposed to exist. Neither were hydrothermal vent organisms. The more we explore the deep, the more basic assumptions about what forms life can take and what it needs to survive are overturned.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464659]

It's like an entire second planet to explore, larger than the surface area of all land masses combined, and with greater biodiversity. Think of all the adventures yet to be had, the astonishing discoveries yet to be made at the vents, the deep coral, the trenches... and this frontier is open to you. You can already visit hotels, restaurants and observatories, helmet dive with dolphins, take a sub tour of coral reefs and sunken wrecks. And soon, just as space has opened up to the wealthy tourist, so too will the Challenger Deep. The last unreachable place on Earth, studied by scientists and flown through in hydrobatic tourist subs.

You might visit the deepest reaches of the sea someday. You can already enjoy the warm, colorful sunlit waters of the conshelf. You can stay in a hotel there, visit a laboratory, eat dinner. Perhaps one day, you'll even live there.

[Anonymous No.4464693]

You are the best Seabro! Thanks for the updates.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464707]

>>4464693

Of course. I just wish this thread wasn't being ignored.

[Anonymous No.4464713]

IDK mite b kool

[Anonymous No.4464715]

Seabro you single-handedly made me more excited and more hopeful about deep sea exploration than I am about space, and I find myself preaching to my nerd friends all the time about it.

[Anonymous No.4464716]

>>4464707

I'm here. I can't wait to see the doc in Imax.

[Anonymous No.4464717]

>Eagerly awakes a ground-breaking find
inb4 alien city and they think we're invading

Nah, but seriously, this is a great idea. My only concern is that it's humanly-driven.
>When will we have AI subs that explore the ocean and record what they see?
They could explore the entire ocean systematically. I would think that a team of humans would have to interpret the data, but still...

[Anonymous No.4464718]

>>4464707
Is there much to be discussed right now I mean it's fucking awesome and I can't wait to see the results as in new species discovered or samples recovered from the depths.
But I have no idea what to expect or what the ramifications of the dive are outside of humanity reaching another milestone.

[Anonymous No.4464719]

>>4464716
Oh! That sounds awesome.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464726]

>>4464715

This is what I like to hear!

>>4464717

Look up Nasa's Depth-X auv. It is the world's most sophisticated and capable AI controlled underwater robot, a prototype for the one that will be sent to Europa. Pic related.

Completely autonomously, this robot descended into an underwater cave network, mapped it's contours in 3D and returned bacterial samples.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464753]

Here is a side view of the 3D sonar map that the depth-x auv created of the 1,099 foot deep Zacaton sinkhole in which it was tested. We can expect maps of similar or better quality from the successor when it is sent to Europa's ocean. However it may be as deep as 60 miles. The robot we send will need pressure resistance like no manned vehicle in history. It isn't possible with current materials or anything short of carbon nanotubules to create a manned sub capable of reaching the floor of the Europan ocean, not that we would in the first place. It will be enough for me if we're even able to send a robot down that far.

[Anonymous No.4464770]

I'm monitoring this thread

[Anonymous No.4464774]

Cannot even imagine the feel of being inside that little life support capsule rocketing towards the deepest part of the ocean. Is it tested to that depth? It might double as a coffin.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464787]

>>4464774

It was subjected to equivalent pressure in a chamber on land, and tested in the ocean to 5 miles deep. So no it hasn't had a real world, in-water test to the full 7 mile limit. Cameron will be conducting that 'test' with himself onboard.

Richard Branson on the other hand will be sending down a test pilot first. Probably wise, as his prototype imploded during pressure testing on land under just one eighth the stress it will need to endure irl.

[Anonymous No.4464805]

>>4464787
I hope the footage is being recorded live would hate to not see such a monumental failure not captured on film due to it being lost.

[Anonymous No.4464818]

/v/ here, you know how we LOVE deep sea threads, when this finally happens, we will have a glorious NOPE age, where deep sea will be scarier than ever

[Anonymous No.4464832]

>>4464621 our generation's equivalent of the Apollo moon landing

Lol no it's not.

[Anonymous No.4464840]

>>4464726
Just to be clear its a test bed there are no plans to send a submersible vehicle to Europe. Proposed but not planned.

[Anonymous No.4464851]

>>4464840
Europa*

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464861]

>>4464832
>lol no its not

You're right. Twelve people have walked on the moon. Only two have ever been to the Challenger Deep. The Moon is small potatoes by comparison.

[Anonymous No.4464863]

>>4464861
don't start this again.
you have an opinion, he has an opinion but there is no objective correct view.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464869]

>>4464863

He tried to start some shit. Point is, it's at least an equivalent engineering challenge and scientifically there's more to gain.

[Anonymous No.4464870]

>>4464861
>
>You're right. Twelve people have walked on the moon. Only two have ever been to the Challenger Deep. The Moon is small potatoes by comparison.

And only two people ITT have gotten dubs.

Challenger Deep = dubs in this thread >>>> moon landing

[Anonymous No.4464887]

>He tried to start some shit.
Don't be a child.
The rest is your opinion, a lot of people lose interest in these threads because it degenerates into a tit for tat squabble over space vs sea. Ignore people who post shit unless it has factual error but still stay objective.

[Anonymous No.4464896]

>>4464869 it's at least an equivalent engineering challenge

But it's not, not by a long shot.

Scientifically interesting I'll give you that. It will make a great movie but it doesn't represent the same challenge as the Apollo missions.

People just don't care too much about the deep sea which is why it's taken so long for anyone to bother going. I imagine his videos will be interesting enough to change peoples opinions.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464913]

>>4464896

The pressure at 36,000 feet is nothing to fuck with. If you missed it earlier, the Trieste had an outer window crack on the way down with sufficient force to make the hull ring like a bell.

We have in fact "cared enough" to return, but with robots; the Kaiko and the Nereus. The technology did not exist until recently to attempt a safer, more productive manned mission.

[Anonymous No.4464933]

Why don't you just drop a thousand big tungsten balls with a camera on the outside?

No air to fuck your shit up with pressure, just a weight & camera.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4464953]

>>4464933

They did, it's called a dropcam, that's how we got pics of these huge ass amoebas. But dropcams are just stationary cameras, they cannot do what a sub can do.

[Anonymous No.4465015]

>>4464953
how old are you?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4465030]

>>4465015

28. Why?

[Anonymous No.4465046]

>>4465030
when you are are the next perfect number, we'll talk

[Anonymous No.4465049]

>>4464913

Making a window that doesn't crack != the difficulty of getting to the moon.

Very high pressures just require very heavy casings. It's not technically ground breaking.

[Anonymous No.4465056]

>>4464933

> no air-pressure

> not realizing there is something called water-pressure

0/10

[Anonymous No.4465076]

>>4464753
> However it may be as deep as 60 miles
Nice thread and all, but the deepest point of the sea is 6.8 miles...

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4465079]

>>4465049

But that failed. The Trieste had a major structural failure, was not able to get any photos, took no samples and accomplished essentially nothing.

The brute force design approach yielded a PR success but a failed mission by any other standard. We did not have the batteries needed, nor the mechatronics, no the cameras or computers. And although I have been stuck arguing Apollo vs. Trieste with you for whatever reason my original comparison was between Cameron's current attempt and the Apollo missions, not Trieste.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4465090]

>>4465076

I know that. I did not say that the ocean here on Earth is sixty miles deep. You did not fully read or undeestand my post. I said the ocean on Jupiter's ice moon Europa is believed to be as deep as 60 miles.

[Anonymous No.4465093]

Mr. Mad Scientist, a question, if you will: when did you become so obscenely fascinated with large bodies of water and why?

[Anonymous No.4465127]

>>4465090
oh sorry my bad

[Anonymous No.4465139]

>>4465056
Water cant be compressed? either can metal, how is a camera gonna get ruined if there is no air in it?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4465152]

>>4465093

I dunno. It wasn't an all at once thing, it was a few experiences including hookah diving and a submersible tour of wrecked planes in Hawaii. Also getting burned out on space, both as a setting for scifi and in terms of Nasa not getting anywhere. All the stuff I found cool about space turned out to have an aquanaut equivalent, from suits and vehicles to habitats and robots. Except without the blue balls of never finding life and never going past LEO. The progress was more rapid, the discoveries consistently fascinating, the technology equally cool, and following missions on the Aquarius Reef Base got me hooked on learning about historical undersea bases and why so few remain.

Also at some point I figured out it makes very little sense to go to asteroids for metals plentiful on the ocean floor, and that technology was rapidly approaching a state where average people would be able to live there while the same won't be true of space for centuries. Normal people can conceivably own a submersible, although it costs more than twice what a decent house runs. They can build one for the price of a new car. Even habitats are something people of ordinary means can build, an dthey have four times that I know of.

[Anonymous No.4465160]

>>4464652
so why dont we or why havent we concentrated more on this rather than space exploration
seems a lot "easier" to find out shit whats on earth rather than outside earth

inb4 space is more intresting or that there is more out theere blah blah blah

[Anonymous No.4465175]

somewhat relevant to thread:
http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2012/feb/bp06trench.cfm
pics of the bathymetry are at the bottom of the article.

[Anonymous No.4465178]

>>4465160
There's very little public interest.

[Anonymous No.4465184]

>>4465160
pressures of the deep ocean and the corrosive nature of seawater make exploration difficult and expensive. i think there's also no guarantees of returns on the investments necessary to explore at those depths.

[Anonymous No.4465267]

>Acquire tons of coal
>Throw them in the Challenger Deep
>They turn into diamonds cause of pressure
>Dive down and get them with this new mission
>??????
>Profit

I wonder why that movie guy suddenly is going down there. MAYBE CAUSE HIS LAST MOVIE WAS SUCH A FLOP

[Anonymous No.4465279]

>>4465267
>>4465267

>diamonds:
5GPa at 1500°C

>Challenger Deep:
111MPa at 7°C


why not?

[Anonymous No.4465294]

>>4465267

You realize synthetic diamonds are easy to make with proper lab equipment, right? No reason to use the pressure of the oceans to do this.

[Anonymous No.4465317]

>>4465079 And although I have been stuck arguing Apollo vs. Trieste with you for whatever reason my original comparison was between Cameron's current attempt and the Apollo missions

It is my contention that Cameron's efforts are not on par with the Apollo missions. They can barely be compared.

The theatre of exploring something new can be considered by some as just as exciting but the technology required and developed for it are a world apart.

It should serve as inspiration to explore the rest of the sea floor but there's still the question of "What's the point?" We already 'know' what's at most of the bottom of the sea.

[Anonymous No.4465320]

>>4465279

>5GPa < 111MPa

????????????????

[Anonymous No.4465323]

Wasn't there a deep sea challenger about 15 years ago? Sorry for stupid question.

[Anonymous No.4465348]

Good stuff Mad Sci. We'll all still be dead long before any wide-scale attempts are made at settling the seas though.

[Anonymous No.4465374]

>>4465320
thats wrong.

[Anonymous No.4465376]

super thread. this documentary should be shown unedited from the beginning to the end. 3d imax taking millions to the ocean floor. absolutely unbelievable

[Anonymous No.4465390]

>>4465294
they can be detected as fake cause they are magnetic by some sort, hence not lots of money for them. OPERATION DEEP WATER PRESSURE DIAMONDS!!

[Anonymous No.4465401]

>>4465390

You're gonna need some sources to back that up. Last I checked, artificially created diamonds are molecularly indistinguishable from "natural" diamonds.

[Anonymous No.4465411]

>>4465390
i'm going to have to express severe skepticism at this statement. diamonds are primarily carbon, carbon does not (to the best of my knowledge) ever exhibit any sort of lingering magnetism, and no minerals i know of that have carbon in them are magnetic. magnetic minerals tend to be such because of iron or magnesium.

[Anonymous No.4465414]

>>4465390
It's pathetic that people value man made diamonds as less than natural diamonds. It's the same fucking shit.

[Anonymous No.4465437]

So this is going to be in a theater? If so it might be the first time I go to the theater in years.

[Anonymous No.4465932]

>>4465401
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond#Impurities_and_inclusions

>>4465414
never said i agreed with those people

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467279]

>>4465376

I dunno, the full unedited video would be ten hours long.

>>4465317

No, we don't "know" what is down there. We have mapped the terrain from space but that cannot tell us what lives there, and I specifically pointed out deep corals, hydrothermal vent communities and diatomous ooze as examples of unknown unknowns, things we truly did not expect to find based on what we assumed we "knew" about the ocean.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467684]

>>4465323
>Wasn't there a deep sea challenger about 15 years ago? Sorry for stupid question.

Depends on what you mean. There was a robot, Nereus, sent down there in 2009. And fifty (not fifteen) years ago, the Trieste went down there. It was discussed at length in this thread.

[Anonymous No.4467692]

>>4464621
jesus fucking h christ

I got so

SO FUCKING EXCITED when I saw this thread

right up until

fucking

>James Cameron

FUCK

FUCK YOU JAMES CAMERON

I HATE YOU SO MUCH

[Anonymous No.4467695]

>>4467692
I mean

SHIT

that fucking RUINS it. Fucking fuck, what a waste of an awesome thing to do.

fucking james cameron

what a douche

[Anonymous No.4467710]

So when do we start making underwater cities, finding large amounts of precious metals and oil, and fighting our aquatic enemies for said precious metals and oil?

Because I'd be the first guy to volunteer for that sort of job.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467725]

Hey mad and /sci/friends.

I was thinking about this today. I am eager to see how this all goes.

I was thinking, James Cameron is all about Cameras, and the technology definitely exists to film the whole thing start to finish.

He should live stream this onto the internet while he does it. That would be awesome. I would just spend my day with that hooked up in the background.

>also if he dies we will know if it was Cthulu

[Anonymous No.4467748]

>used to read / look at deep sea marine life biology / picture books when younger
>see this thread
>mfw

[Anonymous No.4467762]

this is badass

this is some edge of the frontier badassery...and it's being undertaken by a film maker.

Explorers, scientists, government agencies....I am disappoint

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467766]

>>4467710
>So when do we start making underwater cities, finding large amounts of precious metals and oil, and fighting our aquatic enemies for said precious metals and oil?

Disputes over Chinese claims to mineral deposits in the South Indian ridge have already begun.

Pic unfortunately very related.

[Anonymous No.4467774]

WHEN IS THIS DIVE HAPPENING WILL THERE BE A LIVE STREAM?

[Anonymous No.4467780]

>>4467762
Blame capitalism, not us. Socialism is the only answer for scientists.

[Anonymous No.4467788]

>>4467780
yeah, only if your government were pro science and not pro anything but

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467791]

>>4467780
>>4467762

I dont get it. What difference does it make for you guys? What do you think a scientist is going to do that James Cameron wont do?

I mean, when you say capitalism I think of a culture that I find distasteful just as much as you probably do.

I just dont see the direction or purpose of comments complaining about the fact that James Cameron gets to gets to drive a cool submarine.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467799]

>>4467710
>Because I'd be the first guy to volunteer for that sort of job.

Some books for you:

http://www.amazon.com/Undersea-ebook/dp/B0062PXGW6
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Life-Book-Kat-Falls/dp/0545178150/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid
=1331788776&sr=1-1-catcorr
http://www.amazon.com/Rip-Tide-Dark-Life-Book/dp/0545178436/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=
1331788776&sr=1-2-catcorr
http://www.amazon.com/Starfish-Peter-Watts/dp/0765315963/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331
788801&sr=1-1

Dark life is getting the Hollywood treatment soon, courtesy of Robert Zemeckis. I am pretty fuckin' excited.

Here are some games you'd like:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/39630
http://store.steampowered.com/app/39640
http://store.steampowered.com/app/7650
http://www.amazon.com/Submarine-Titans-Pc/dp/B00004Y55D
http://www.amazon.com/Archimedean-Dynasty-PC/dp/B000FXWYYW/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&q
id=1331788917&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Sub-Culture-pc/dp/B00027EJRQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=13317
88927&sr=1-1

[Anonymous No.4467800]

>>4467788
The government isn't the problem, it's the system they exist in. Private property is a joke.

[Anonymous No.4467805]

>>4467791
Private enterprises will NEVER back something that will not guarantee a long term return on investment, not to mention the exploitation and corruption that arises from capitalist systems

[Anonymous No.4467806]

>>4467805
Sorry, that should read short term.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467809]

>>4467805

Except that of the current contenders in this four sub race to the deep trenches, two are being funded purely for philanthropic reasons. The other two are prototypes for eventual tourist subs that will be donated for scientific use afterward.

Sometimes, benevolent, eccentric wealthy people do exist and are just what's needed to spearhead huge leaps forward like this.

[Anonymous No.4467813]

>>4467774
>>4467774
>>4467774
>>4467774
>>4467774
>>4467774
>>4467774

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467817]

>>4467805

I dont think thats true. Like, amazon for example didnt make a profit for like 10 years into its existence. I dont see why short or long term is relevant. All people have a capacity to make long and short term decisions, its just about what you are looking for.

>I think I am setting a precedent of derailing mad scientist threads.

[Anonymous No.4467818]

>>4467809
>using the current systems empirical data to disprove a system totally independent of the previous
I'm not denying that it happens, but it's at the whim of an eccentric fuckface instead of being resultant of a goal for the common good of humanity

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467823]

>>4467813

It will be happening some time in the next two weeks. Very, very soon.

There will not be a live stream because radio does not travel far through water except using Extreme Low Frequency, which is too low bandwidth for audio much less video.

We will find out if he succeeded only after the fact. While he's down there, he's on his own.

[Anonymous No.4467825]

>>4467817
10 years is short term, I'm talking about investing into fields of science that we have no idea about the implications for humanity. Even investing into LFTR is out of the question for private firms, even though it's probably the best idea we could ever have. The only thing restricting it? The idea of "cost"

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467831]

>>4467809

I agree. I think any of these sort of problems under the label of "capitalism" are just cultural problems, not economic.

>>4467818

Do you think its for the common good of humanity to go to the bottom of the ocean? If you think so, than I would question the relevance as to whether its a fuckface or some faggy scientist who does it.

Anyway, fuckface or not, he couldnt have done it alone. He is just driving the thing, and enthusiatic and rich. The whole operation probably involves thousands of people directly and indirectly who arguable have just as much of a stake in this as Cameron.

[Anonymous No.4467836]

>>4467831
I'm not mad at Cameron, I think it's great of him, I'm just mad that something like this couldn't have been possible without a bazzillionaire's sporadic choice

[Anonymous No.4467841]

>>4467831
I would agree with you there about culture being the problem, but I would argue that the culture is resultant from capitalism, materialism is not only accentuated by capitalism, but outright rewarded immensely.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467850]

>>4467825

>10 years is short term

Pffffffffffff. You dont consider 10 years to be long term? At this point, I just wonder what projects we could possibly be missing out on. Do companies not engage in 15+ year projects because 1) they just dont have that kind of fore-sight, or 2) 15+ year projects dont exist.

> I'm talking about investing into fields of science that we have no idea about the implications for humanity

Research companies exist, and many large companies have to have labs. Its a means in which good ideas flow through your company.

>>4467836

>I'm just mad that something like this couldn't have been possible without a bazzillionaire's sporadic choice

Fair enough.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467853]

>>4467836
>I'm not mad at Cameron, I think it's great of him, I'm just mad that something like this couldn't have been possible without a bazzillionaire's sporadic choice

I see it as analogous to the era of the Wright brothers, of Edison and Tesla, Ford and so on. Eccentric inventors driving humanity forward as individuals, rather than teams of government funded scientists.

[Anonymous No.4467856]

soooo, how long until a Rapture-like city on the bottom of the ocean becomes possible?

(minus the insane genetically altered splicers and a madman for a leader of course)

[Anonymous No.4467858]

>>4467850
Well I don't know, mortgages are longer than ten years and you see people doing that. The unfunded are just the long term research projects that don't have a high % of overcoming the big bad boogieman which is the profit margin. Research does exist in the private sector, but only with the incentive of profit, which does not equate to value in lots of cases , eg manufactured obsolescence

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467866]

>>4467841

This has been a problem I have been wrestling with a lot lately.

Are cultural problems inflicted onto people and make the people bad? Or are people at fault for creating a bad culture? I think I am coming to the conclusion that its not a dichotomy, and that both parties are responsible, predators and victims. Although I hold it against victims more.

marketing for example:

Lets presume marketing is bad. If a marketer stops marketing they are doing something good. But a single marketer has pretty much no effect on the system as a whole. Likewise if someone stops responding to marketing they are doing something good, but again the system as a whole has not changed.

If hold it against the victims more, because, in the marketing example if everyone stops marketing then the problem of marketing is solved. But at the same time people are still foolish enough to be marketed towards, which I consider a deeper, more fundamental problem with people's values.

Ultimately people are responsible, and you cant just blame authority. Authority is a reflection of people.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467867]

>>4467856
>soooo, how long until a Rapture-like city on the bottom of the ocean becomes possible?

It's possible today, if by "bottom" you mean continental shelf. The first multi-structure seafloor colony was established in the 1960s by Jacque Cousteau. Three habitats sat 33 feet down on the floor of the Red Sea for a month, to study how men might live and work for prolonged periods in the sea.

Since then the 70 undersea labs established worldwide shut down one by one at the conclusion of their useful lifespans.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467876]

The modern equivalents are mainly resorts, hotels, restaurants and observatories, including the Red Sea Star (pictured), the Ithaa, the Lime Spa at the Maldives, another Maldives undersea cafe I forget the name of, the Jules Undersea Lodge, the Eilat undersea observatory, and various others in China, Australia and the tropics.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467879]

>>4467858

I think ultimately I agree with you totally, but for the sake of argument, if research is to discover truly unknown things, than I dont think we can properly predict how we will discover these things. The means to discover them is a mystery as well and we cant tell if it will be discovered by some state funded science program, the military, or AT&T's bell labs.

I think the cosmic background radiation was discovered by some project that came out of AT&T. And, the discovery that super novas can be used as standard candles came from a satellite designed to detect soviet nuclear missiles.

[Anonymous No.4467880]

>>4467799

what could one major in if interested in this stuff?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467883]

Today, anyone with $500 to blow can live the life of an aquanaut for a day, in a former research lab converted to four room undersea hotel, with a second habitat just a few dozen yards from it in the same lagoon. Guests can freely swim between the two and undertake various activities, then spend the night in comfort 30 feet underwater.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467886]

There's also the Aquarius, modern successor to Hydrolab, America's only remaining (and newest) underwater laboratory. 63 feet down on Conch Reef, it permits scientists to study coral reef organisms for two weeks at a time, only decompressing at the very end of their mission.

[fizx !d75etXAowg No.4467893]

Mad Scientist, you are the bane of my sleep cycle. It's past midnight here.

[Anonymous No.4467897]

>>4467867
by bottom i mean deep enough that its dark as shit outside but if you go up to a window and look up you can see the dull green glow of the sun. Obviously each building would have to be designed with the pressure in mind, and any large windows would have to be tremendously thick as well as laminated to hold up to it. If one opted to pressurize the city, the requirements to hold back the water would be lessened, but then someone would have to cook up a gas mix that doesnt have alot of nitrogen in it while keeping everyone from sounding like they inhaled a tank of helium.

So not at the bottom of the Lauretian abyss or however you spell it, but close to the edge of the shelf.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467899]

>>4467880

>what could one major in if interested in this stuff?

Depends what you want to do. If you want to ride in the submersibles and live in undersea labs you're best off being a marine biologist. Marine geologists also frequently get to ride in subs very deep to study hydrothermal vents and to do oil exploration. If you want to design the subs, habitats, suits and so on, be a marine engineer.

[Anonymous No.4467905]

>Lets presume marketing is bad.

I know you don't actually think this way, but I hate it when people hate on advertising. Advertising is a great thing.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467911]

>>4467905

No really. I think marketing is largely a bad thing.

You could make the case that part of marketing is researching buyers and communicating with them. This is undeniably a good thing.

So when I refer to marketing, I am pretty much referring to advertisements, and campaigns meant to attach metaphysical ideas to products (like Nike suggesting their shoes embody the whole spirit of sports, and thus rising demand).

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467912]

The most ambitious projects to put large scale living structures in the ocean are the Poseidon Undersea Resort, the Coral World Park in the Philippines, and the Atlantica Undersea Colony.

On the industrial side, there are deep sea mining operations now, (long a staple of science fiction) as well as undersea fish farms, and soon nuclear power stations 300 feet deep courtesy of French energy firm Flex Blue.

[Anonymous No.4467919]

>>4467911

This makes me a sad panda. Yeah advertising panders to the emotions of the consumer, but some advertising is damn near art. If you try advertising without emotion, you get infomercials, which is the worst kind of marketing.

You can't dump responsibility on the advertiser for the consumer not being smart enough to research their purchases. They have to make their product known, or else they'll go out of business. Trying to market without emotion gets you left behind.

[Anonymous No.4467923]

>>4464621
shouldnt there be diamonds down there?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467930]

>>4467923

>shouldnt there be diamonds down there?

Could be. But currently it's the minerals people are interested in. Pic related.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467933]

>>4467930

Meant to write "metals". Also, methane hydrate:

[Anonymous No.4467935]

Not satisfied with destroying the environment on land so it's time to destroy the oceans too.

What possible benefit is there to moving underwater and creating even more disruptive noise to the wildlife?

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467939]

>>4467919

>Yeah advertising panders to the emotions of the consumer,

Yeah, I think if we were more logical about our even short-term financial decisions than we would be better. But its even more complicated than that. Advertisements today just convince people that they are buying something they arent.

Infomercials I guess are the worst in that, they are the most annoying to listen to, but I think they are in some sense more honest. Sure marketing today is more of an art than ever, but this is only because it takes a delicate subtly to convince people to buy your shit. In that sense its worse because its more dishonest and more manipulative.

>They have to make their product known, or else they'll go out of business.

Shit is tough. I dont hold it against people who make this conscious decision because they are conscious about it. Consciousness is all I could really ask for from people. When people make decisions to market, they should recognize that living in a world full of marketing is exactly what they deserve. If marketing is horrible then they deserve something horrible. Of course, you are free not to think its horrible, or free to think it was horrible in exchange for something wonderful, but it was what you deserve nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.4467943]

>>4467919 If you try advertising without emotion, you get infomercials, which is the worst kind of marketing.

Infomercials are some of the least painful and most honest advertising. Ok the honesty is bullshit but you at least get to see the product in use and the bad users.

[Anonymous No.4467945]

>>4467905 I know you don't actually think this way, but I hate it when people hate on advertising. Advertising is a great thing.

No it's manipulative and pushed by evil.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467948]

>>4467935
>Not satisfied with destroying the environment on land so it's time to destroy the oceans too.

How, exactly?

>What possible benefit is there to moving underwater and creating even more disruptive noise to the wildlife?

None whatsoever, that's why we're taking care not to destroy anything. Doing things the way we do them today, with trawling and drilling awkwardly from the surface is what's damaging.

Going into the sea to live and work there is clean. Every habitat becomes an artifical reef, BENEFITING local wildlife. Submersibles are all zero emissions battery electric, internal combustion engines don't work underwater. By putting drilling rigs directly atop wells with all of the equipment necessary to handle leaks on-site instead of miles above you prevent BP style disasters and by putting humans onsite where minerals will be extracted you negate the need for messy current methods like bucket wheel extractors.

You have an essentially anti-human worldview and it's both unhealthy and unfair. We are not monsters, we are not poison, it is possible to go into a new area and live there in a way that does not destroy it and even benefits it. And in fact, the ocean necessitates many of the technologies that make that difference.

[Anonymous No.4467949]

>>4467823 There will not be a live stream because radio does not travel far through water except using Extreme Low Frequency, which is too low bandwidth for audio much less video.

Why was the Trieste able to communicate when it touched the bottom? Has this been explained?

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467952]

>>4467943

Yeah really I was thinking the same thing

"THIS PRODUCT IS THE BEST THING EVER!!!!!"- infomercial
>Yeah okay whatever. It will probably break the first time I use it
"Yo my product... is the coolest shit ever...." - hipster working for company
>OMG ITS THE BEST THING EVER

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467953]

>>4467949
>Why was the Trieste able to communicate when it touched the bottom? Has this been explained?

I don't know. That is a very good question.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467959]

Edit: Looks like they used a hydrophone. That might work for Cameron but I am uncertain whether it could transmit video of any decent quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathyscaphe_Trieste

[Anonymous No.4467961]

>>4467959

>At a speed of almost a mile per second (about five times the speed of sound in air), it took about seven seconds for a voice message to travel from the craft to the surface ship and another seven seconds for answers to return.

There's another one of those parallels with space exploration you keep talking about. Never realized there was a comms delay underwater.

[Anonymous No.4467962]

>>4467949
from wikipedia:

"While on the bottom at maximum depth, Piccard and Walsh unexpectedly regained the ability to communicate with the surface ship, USS Wandank (ATA-204), using a sonar/hydrophone voice communications system.[6] At a speed of almost a mile per second (about five times the speed of sound in air), it took about seven seconds for a voice message to travel from the craft to the surface ship and another seven seconds for answers to return."

it is not explained in the article

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467965]

>>4467962
>it is not explained in the article

Yes it is, it says they used a hydrophone/sonar setup. Really good for sending analogue voice. Not so good for data. That's called an "accoustic modem" and they are notoriously bad.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467968]

>>4467962

That made me think about using the same technology to communicate audio signals across air waves, but then I remembered we already have that capacity.

[Anonymous No.4467970]

Fuck it. Mine it all to death. exploit everything that you can get your hands on.
Farm every square inch that you don't mine to feed more so the population can reach 20 billion fat greedy humans under your control.
Because wanting to is all the justification you need.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467973]

>>4467968

Heh. There's actually been a lot of research into blue-green lasers for undersea communication as they are precisely the right frequency to penetrate as far as possible through sea water and can carry much higher bandwidth signals.

Obviously the beam degrades much more quickly in water than air but it's possible to overpower that with newer, stronger lasers somewhat and it's still better than the alternatives, at least for data.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467978]

>>4467970

We cannot stay here forever. The universe is full of planets like Earth. Once we become capable of reaching them, preserving this one won't matter.

In the meantime, people only seem to care about conserving nature in the areas where they live. Putting people, especially the wealthy into the oceans will leverage the NIMBY effect, but towards conservation.

[Anonymous No.4467979]

>>4467973
Why not just use VLF radio?

[Anonymous No.4467981]

I almost hope that he gets eaten by Cthulhu so he won't make anymore schlocky, everyman pandering films.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467982]

>>4467979

>Why not just use VLF radio?

I already explained that earlier in the thread.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.4467983]

>>4467973

It would be interesting to communicate computer data via an extremely loud binary of audio pulses. Although it would probably be very irritating to listen to.

[Anonymous No.4467985]

>>4467695
>>4467692
yeah but think about how awesome it would be if the thing imploded on him.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4467986]

>>4467983

That's basically what an accoustic modem does. They are very low bandwidth and have a high level of packet loss.

[Anonymous No.4468156]

Why the fuck are you talking about a video uplink? What's wrong with just recording it and viewing/editing it later?

[Anonymous No.4468164]

>>4467985
sigh... I don't hate him THAT much and I'm still a human being with empathy

getting crushed at the bottom of the fucking ocean would be...

just mindbogglingly terrifying. The few instants before it collapses when you realize "oh god I'm fucked" would just be so agonizing I think I'd die before the thing smushed me

I would never want that to happen to anyone else

[Anonymous No.4468168]

>>4468156

People want to see it live in case this happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkhBPF4yfkI

[Anonymous No.4468172]

>>4468168
why ;_;

[Anonymous No.4468177]

>>4468172

Same reason people go to air shows or watch NASCAR

The dude is tempting some of the strongest forces on the planet in a little metal capsule the size of a car, that is some hubris, people half want to see him triumph and half want to see the sea crush him like a piece of popcorn under a fat woman's ass

Shit's gonna be harrowing

[Anonymous No.4468180]

People will say I'm trying to be edgy but honestly, humanity is so stupid. The news is fear mongering about Iran, promoting war and just flips shit about a potential global economic crisis. All while some of the biggest scientific ventures are going on.

[What if? !!xvbTXidFJou No.4468184]

>>4464621
That's great, but when can we put hamsters down there?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468197]

>>4468184

>That's great, but when can we put hamsters down there?

I wonder if I could convince Cameron to take one of the hamsters with him in a little pet carrier.

[Anonymous No.4468211]

An accurate simulation of what happens to Cameron if his hull fails:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsoE4F2Pb20#t=2m20

[Anonymous No.4468214]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l0K62n8B4

I can't get enough implosions, so you KNOW I'll be following this trip.

[Anonymous No.4468225]

>>4467809
Right, because Lord Scientist was the fastest period of scientific advancement.

[Anonymous No.4468235]

when exactly is the mission ?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468240]

>>4468235
>when exactly is the mission ?

Unknown. But, "before this month is over". It could easily be happening right now.

[Anonymous No.4468241]

>>4468240
ok, because i dont see any details, and i dont want to be barraged with
>LOL FAGET IT ALREADY HAPPENED
by my friends

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468244]

>>4468241

Go here: http://deepseachallenge.com/ and click latest news. Bookmark it and that way you'll be up to date on every development.

The wait for the IMAX 3D documentary afterward will be agonizing.

[Anonymous No.4468339]

Sea Floor Mining will be the new Coal Mining.
Cold, dark, cramped conditions in an atmosphere that slowly damages the human body comprehensively and extensively.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468344]

>>4468339
>Cold, dark, cramped conditions in an atmosphere that slowly damages the human body comprehensively and extensively.

Well, countries with human rights laws will use 1atm exoskeletons. I cannot speak for China, but I am not certain if it's even possible for saturation divers to survive under that kind of pressure. The deepest "Dry dive" on land in a hyperbaric chamber was to 2,300 feet, by a Comex diver in 1992.

Past a certain limit the pressure reduces the firing threshold of your neurons to the point where they are misfiring at random. They could send him deeper but he'd be insane until they brought him back up above that limit.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468346]

>>4468339
>Cold, dark, cramped conditions in an atmosphere that slowly damages the human body comprehensively and extensively.

Well, countries with human rights laws will use 1atm exoskeletons. I cannot speak for China, but I am not certain if it's even possible for saturation divers to survive under that kind of pressure. The deepest "Dry dive" on land in a hyperbaric chamber was to 2,300 feet, by a Comex diver in 1992.

Past a certain limit the pressure reduces the firing threshold of your neurons to the point where they are misfiring at random. They could send him deeper but he'd be insane until they brought him back up above that limit.

[Anonymous No.4468351]

>>4468346
so basically it's cheaper to use robots, no matter which way you look at it.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468358]

>>4468351
>so basically it's cheaper to use robots, no matter which way you look at it.

Hasn't been tried. How did you get that from what I wrote?

We can do the mining right now with robots but it's slow, clumsy and messy. We could do it faster and cleaner with humans in suits like this one manually working hydraulic tools. Whether or not that makes for a higher return remains to be seen.

[Anonymous No.4468452]

>>4468358 We can do the mining right now with robots but it's slow, clumsy and messy. We could do it faster and cleaner with humans in suits like this one manually working hydraulic tools.

I doubt this.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468464]

>>4468452
>I doubt this.

It was put to the test, with supportive results, in the Conshelf 3 experiment. Men can live and work in the deep sea with greater speed and precision than fumbling around from the surface. Like trying to unlock a car door through a crack in the window using an unbent coat hanger.

Today, men are routinely sent down to do welding and other work on oil rigs for precisely this reason.

[Anonymous No.4468485]

>>4468464

Welding manually vs mobile robot is completely different to mining manually vs mobile robot.

Welding requires immediate high dexterity inputs and adjustments from a skilled operator. Mining operations do not require the same level of input and is much more physically exhausting, this can be accomplished robotically easier.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468502]

>>4468485
>Welding manually vs mobile robot is completely different to mining manually vs mobile robot.

I expected this.

"Robots can do everything!"
"Well, here's an example of where humans are used and why"
"Well that's totally different and doesn't count!"

>Mining operations do not require the same level of input

For the current method (bucket wheel excavation), yes. But that is messy, creating sediment plumes that disrupt local ecosystems. It is plausible that laws will pass requiring methods that do not create these plumes. That will require more precise extraction than robots are presently capable of, whereas exoskeletons suitable for those depths are just now coming online.

We'll see what happens, I guess. At any rate there's o debate concerning the necessity of humans for subsea fish farms (pictured) which would benefit from the availability of colonists as potential employees. Daily maintenance versus monthly, for the same pay.

[Its begun. No.4468561]

>>4467813
Streaming from something so far deep? I would have thought there would be problems....

[Anonymous No.4468627]

>>4468502 "Robots can do everything!"

I'm not under the impression that robots can do everything. I'm a welder / mechanical engineer with some experience in the quarrying industry. I understand the limitations/capabilities of robots.

I hope there is a lot of regulation and self initiative for sediment plume control but I'm not sure why you believe manual labour in a bulky suit is superior to (semi)automated machinery. Do you expect people to work at these depths with a pickaxe and shovel or a industrial vacuum cleaner? Even with some power tools I can't see the material harvested per day being close to economically feasible. Any technology that can effectively keep plumes to a minimum will likely be so encased that direct human involvement will be impossible.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4468635]

>>4468627
No, I don't expect them to use shovels or pickaxes. I don't know where you got such an idea either. I would expect them to move, set up and operate powered mining equipment with greater precision than is possible from 2+ miles above driving a robot via tether.

[Anonymous No.4468639]

What if it explodes like Space Shuttle Challenger?

wud b laff

[Anonymous No.4468650]

>>4464655
first thing i thought of, lol.

[Anonymous No.4468654]

You do realize that a grape fruit sized Amoeba is biologically impossible right? It has to be a multicellular organism, because the size of unicellular organisms is finite. The reason is a simple volume to surface area ratio. When cells get too large the surface area of the membrane is much smaller than the volume. The membrane will simply not be able to diffuse enough nutrients.

[Anonymous No.4468659]

>>4468635

Actually being there in a claustrophobic, bulky, energy intensive suit isn't going to help accuracy, I wouldn't be surprised if it made things worse. Being in a warm, dry office surrounded with displays from the onboard cameras could give you all the control you need with a lot less mental exhaustion.

As I said before, anything that is capable of effectively preventing sediment plumes will likely be very encased meaning visual access to the operating tools will likely be obstructed. Operator plots an area to mine and hits go.

[Anonymous No.4468964]

Fuck why is the ocean so interesting

[Anonymous No.4469006]

>>4467710
Only if we name the city rapture...

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4470348]

>>4468659

The suits are not energy intensive; you may be assuming that they are augmented exoskeletons, they aren't, the joints are just rolling seals and the only energy consumed is by the life support system and lights. It's also not bulky by comparison with any other ADS, and is in fact so flexible it's possible to swim in it, hence the fins.

I dunno, I think you're picturing it with the mindset that it must fail. I'm not, it looks like it would work fine in my head, but then neither of us really knows as it has yet to be tried. If we go by the Conshelf 3 results it looks very promising, but then those were sat divers, not suit divers. It'd have to be tried again under typical deep sea mining conditions.

>>4468964
>Fuck why is the ocean so interesting

It's a lot like space only we have all the technology we need to explore it and there's guaranteed to be weird creatures there for us to find on basically every mission.

>>4469006
>Only if we name the city rapture...

Oh, I see! Just like in the videogame! Hey guys, he said "Rapture", because you see all of this is underwater and it's just like that popular videogame set in an underwater city! Get it? Haha, man, that is CLASSIC

[Anonymous No.4470537]

>>4470348
>Oh, I see! Just like in the videogame! Hey guys, he said "Rapture", because you see all of this is underwater and it's just like that popular videogame set in an underwater city! Get it? Haha, man, that is CLASSIC

Don't be a dick dude. Not samefag.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4470548]

>>4470537

It was all in fun, no offense intended. It's just a really really common thing dudes who are into this subject hear over and over and it wears on you after a while.

[Anonymous No.4470559]

>>4470548
It's okay. I like you.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4470774]

UPDATE: my sources tell me that the dive will occur this weekend.

[Anonymous No.4472108]

>>4470774
YES

[Anonymous No.4472133]

>>4470774
Most glorious news!

Damn, I wish that it would be possible to slap some wireless connection so we would be able to see shit in real-time. Sure, I know most of what it's supposed to look like, but seeing it yourself (even on your screen) is a different thing altogether.

[Anonymous No.4472170]

>>4472133
just wait until its in IMAX in 3d. probably one of the most incredible things anyone will ever see.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472222]

>>4468654
>You do realize that a grape fruit sized Amoeba is biologically impossible right? It has to be a multicellular organism, because the size of unicellular organisms is finite. The reason is a simple volume to surface area ratio. When cells get too large the surface area of the membrane is much smaller than the volume. The membrane will simply not be able to diffuse enough nutrients.

Nope. Xenophyophores are legitimately single-celled. They often do have multiple nuclei, but their entire body is one giant cell, with the same basic structural arrangement of proteins, amino acids, lipids and other organic molecules just on a vastly larger scale.

http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/05lostcity/logs/july27/media/xeno2.html

>"Xenophyophores are single cell animals called Protists. As benthic particulate feeders, xenophyophores normally sift through the sediments on the sea floor. and excrete a slimy substance; in locations with a dense population of xenophyophores, such as at the bottoms of oceanic trenches, this slime may cover large areas."

These are found only in deep ocean trenches and the largest specimens known previously were about the size of ping pong balls. It is not yet known whether this new species is as large as they get.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472225]

>>4472133

Pic of the interior of the pilot sphere

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472227]

Pic of the heads up display GUI

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472229]

Comparison of Deepsea Challenger and Trieste.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472232]

Comparison of the DSC and Trieste pilot spheres. We've come a long way.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472250]

>Engineers made the pilot’s chamber spherical because the shape can be both strong and light. They also made the steel 2.5 inches (6.4 centimeters) thick to withstand the crushing pressure of the deep. If they had made the chamber a cylinder, by comparison, the hull would have needed to have been three times as thick to stand up to the pressure. The hull, complete with its hatch and viewport, was tested twice in a pressure chamber at Pennsylvania State University to an equivalent full-ocean-depth pressure of 16,500 pounds per square inch (1,138 bars). It passed both tests. Twenty-two strain gauges attached to the sphere gave data that indicated the sphere could withstand up to 140 percent of the test pressure without buckling.

>When designing the sub, James Cameron and Ron Allum kept the sphere’s internal diameter to 43 inches (109 centimeters) because, as the heaviest part of the sub, its weight dramatically impacts the overall size of the vehicle. The heavier the sphere, the more foam would be needed to float the entire structure back to the surface. And the foam itself, capable of withstanding the crushing pressures at full ocean depth, is quite dense. More weight, more foam. More foam … more weight. It adds up quickly and dramatically. To keep the sub small enough to launch and recover from a ship, as opposed to being towed to the site like the Trieste, it was critical to have as small a sphere as possible.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472252]

>The sphere’s interior is covered with electronics, screens, circuit breakers, and tanks. The pilot’s seat perches above a set of emergency batteries. To his right canisters and tanks absorb carbon dioxide and release oxygen, and to his left the dashboard offers an array of buttons controlling everything from power to communications. Inches from the pilot’s face a screen projects images captured by a Red Epic 5K camera that generates a wide-angle view—better than what the pilot could see with his eyes—from the narrow end of the sphere’s cone-shaped window. A touch screen next to the “virtual viewport” helps him monitor everything from battery power to oxygen levels. The interior also includes food, water, and joysticks connected to the “thrusters,” essentially motors that help the sub move horizontally and vertically.

>The interior of the tiny compartment is designed to accommodate the pilot’s exact bodily requirements. Engineers studied Cameron’s and Allum’s breathing rates while they were resting and exercising—increased oxygen intake while exercising mimics intake while stressed—and calibrated the sub’s oxygen feed to meet their physical needs.

>The sub is equipped with two compressed oxygen cylinders, which contain enough O2 to keep the pilot breathing for up to 56 hours—seven times the amount of time he expects to spend diving the Challenger Deep. Cameron trained for the dive by doing exercises to increase his lung capacity and his body’s oxygen efficiency. He’s been running and free diving regularly.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472256]

>“Freediving teaches you to be calm and self-reliant and to ‘pre-visualize’ every dive before you make it, so that your mind is clear and focused during the dive itself,” says Cameron. “It also improves your breath-holding capability, which may come in handy if there is a fire inside the sub’s pilot sphere. An electrical fire would contaminate the air with toxic smoke instantly, turning it unbreathable. The plan is to switch quickly to full face mask attached to a closed-loop rebreather unit. This takes precious seconds, and being able to stay calm while holding one’s breath could mean the difference between life or death. Of course, I’ve been trained by my life-support team in this and other contingency scenarios, and that training also keeps you calm and clear-headed in an emergency.”

>But keeping the pilot breathing isn’t just a matter of sending him into the deep with ample oxygen. He’ll also need the carbon dioxide and water vapor he exhales removed from the sphere’s air supply. Scrubbers will absorb excess carbon dioxide, while water vapor from his breath and sweat will condense on the sphere’s cool steel and trickle to the lowest portion of the sub, where it pools in a sump and can be pumped into a bag. In an emergency, the pilot can drink it using a special straw designed to filter out contaminants.

>Periodically, the sub will automatically send telemetry back to the ship with the pressure, temperature, oxygen levels, and other data. The expedition’s dive doctor will review these figures to make sure the sphere is providing a habitable environment.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472259]

>Independent batteries can run the life-support system in an emergency. Everything possible, even the tape used inside the sphere and the pilot’s clothing, is fire-resistant, so if any of the batteries or wiring were to catch fire, the pilot would be able to put it out quickly. To keep warm, the pilot will have a change of clothing—when he starts, he’ll probably be sweating, as the sphere’s electronics will heat the sphere rapidly. He’ll also have a vacuum-packed, electronically heated suit, along with a sleeping bag and other layers to keep him warm if he winds up stuck on the bottom for an extended period. At full ocean depth, the temperature approaches freezing.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472276]

>About 70 percent of the sub’s volume is taken up by syntactic foam. Formed of millions of hollow glass microspheres suspended in an epoxy resin, syntactic foam is the only flotation material that can stand up to the incredible pressures in the deep ocean. But when the engineers behind the DEEPSEA CHALLENGER tested the two “full-ocean-depth-rated” foams that were on the market, they proved not to be adequate. In fact they cracked, warped, and compressed, losing buoyancy, and did not have nearly the tensile strength required for the new vehicle to operate under extreme conditions. This was a serious setback to the project. But lead engineer Ron Allum then spent 18 months designing a new type of syntactic foam, which has since been dubbed ISOFLOAT™ and patented. The foam provides the buoyancy James Cameron needs 7 miles (11 kilometers) down, without crushing or warping, and has twice the tensile strength of previous foams, allowing it to be used as the main structural frame of the sub.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472278]

>Once on the bottom, the lone pilot will use joysticks to command 12 thrusters to propel the sub along the ocean floor. The thrusters will allow him to move forward at 3 knots, as well as vertically at 2.5 knots—and it turns out, from sea trials testing, that the sub is quite responsive and nimble despite its mass. It can turn on a dime and maneuver quietly adjacent to free-swimming animals near the bottom, imaging them on its 3-D cameras. As with almost everything else on the DEEPSEA CHALLENGER, full-ocean-depth thrusters were not an off-the-shelf item. It took a year to design the fluid compensated electronics and to hand build each thruster at the sub’s shop in Sydney.

>Throughout the DEEPSEA CHALLENGER, more than 180 systems are monitored and controlled, including batteries, thrusters, life support, 3-D cameras, and LED lighting. One system constantly monitors the sub’s battery power and oxygen levels and reports the results to the pilot on a color touch-screen display. Another system reads the pilot’s joysticks and in turn controls the thrusters that propel and position the sub, as well as the mechanical arm.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472282]

>At the push of a button, the control system can keep the sub at a set level above the seafloor. This is called Auto Altitude. Another function is just like the cruise control on a car: The pilot pushes the “cruise” button when he has set his forward speed, and the sub stays at that speed for as long as required.

>The DEEPSEA CHALLENGER‘s pilot will be alone, but he’ll spend a lot of the journey talking: He’ll narrate a “dive log” to two small cameras (two are needed to create 3-D video) inside the sphere. He’ll also talk to the surface through several systems—one with a 19-mile (30-kilometer) range underwater. When necessary, he’ll be able to send text messages, which are more efficient than voice communications. The submersible’s mother ship, the Mermaid Sapphire, and the 30-foot (9-meter) rigid-hulled inflatable Prime RHIB are each equipped with two transducers—one on board and another suspended on a cable about 330 feet (100 meters) below the water. The sub also has a backup acoustic modem/transponder powered separately from the sub’s main battery. Once the sub surfaces, it will also use a VHF marine radio to communicate with the crew.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472286]

>The sub will descend because of more than 1,000 pounds (450 kilograms) of steel weights held on to either side by electromagnets. To rise to the surface, the pilot will flip a switch, the plates of steel will fall to the ocean floor, and the lighter-than-water foam will hurtle the sub skyward. This step is critical—if the weights don’t drop, the pilot will be stuck at the bottom of the ocean. To ensure they function properly, engineers incorporated several backup systems:

>If there’s a power failure or the magnets’ batteries run out, the weights will drop automatically.

>The support team at the surface can command the weights to drop via an acoustic command.

>A special wire (galvanic timed release) helps connect the weights to the sub; it will corrode after about 11 to 13 hours in seawater.

>Cameron can power up something called a “frangibolt,” which uses heat to break the bolts that keep the weight-drop mechanism in place, thus jettisoning the whole assembly.

>The sub has two “booms,” essentially long metal poles that Cameron or Allum can move from inside the sphere using hydraulics. One positions a powerful spotlight, the other a 3-D camera. More light is provided by a seven-foot (two-meter) panel of LED lights mounted on the sub’s front face. In very clear water, the panel will illuminate up to 100 feet (30 meters). More lights, including a strobe, are installed on the top, so the recovery team will be able to find the sub when it surfaces at night.

[Anonymous No.4472289]

Not gonna lie, I would kill for an opportunity like this.

Well, at least in 20 years it will be at most as expensive as a decent car. And seeing as huge are the oceans, there will be quite a few spots where you won't run into 15k ft deep restaurants..

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472296]

>>4472289

>Well, at least in 20 years it will be at most as expensive as a decent car.

You can already get a decent submersible for that, just not with such an insane crush depth.
http://www.uboatworx.nl/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GdpgP7oghU

>there will be quite a few spots where you won't run into 15k ft deep restaurants..

Nobody would build a restauraunt at such a depth. All existing undersea restauraunts (I know of only three) are on the Continental shelf in thirty feet of water or less. That's where all the really pretty stuff is.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/t6pYLtTjZAc

[Anonymous No.4472304]

>>4472252
>image
Reminds me of this

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472312]

>>4472304

[Anonymous No.4472313]

>>4472296
>Nobody would build a restauraunt at such a depth.

You seem to underestimate the.. depth.. of human vanity. Once it will be possible and won't cost 50m$ then someone will probably do it just to prove some imaginary point or whatever.

Anyway, thanks for this thread. It was an interesting read.

[Anonymous No.4472321]

>>4472312
>MFW
Has anyone built a small scale version of this yet?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472323]

>>4472313

I don't doubt it will someday be possible, I doubt that tourists will pay to enjoy a gourmet meal while scared out of their wits. The hadal depths are potentially a place wealthy thrill seekers will pay big bucks to briefly visit, courtesy of Virgin Oceanic:

http://www.virginoceanic.com/

But it is not a relaxing holiday destination where normal people would enjoy wine and lobster, fully cognizant of the nightmarish conditions just outside the restaurant's hull.

>Anyway, thanks for this thread. It was an interesting read.

As always, my pleasure

[Anonymous No.4472333]

Dear Mad Scientist,

What happens when we disturb a colossal unspeakable horror that rises to the surface and devours all human life in less than a blink of an eye?

>mowied fascinating

[Anonymous No.4472340]

>>4472333
how would he know

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472355]

>>4472340

>Implying I am not preparing an aquanaut strikeforce at this very moment

[Anonymous No.4472357]

>>4472355

Is that....is that a Mass Effect reboot, set in the ocean?

I would play this

[Anonymous No.4472360]

We should cut NASA funding and switch it to deep sea exploration = far cheaper and satisfies the need to explore while being much more useful than space shit

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472362]

>>4472357

No idea, just some concept art I liked. If you want really good oceanic scifi games, play Aquanox 1 and 2, Archimedean Dynasty, Submarine Titans and Sub Culture. Pic related, but you've already clicked it for the tits

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472375]

>>4472360
>We should cut NASA funding and switch it to deep sea exploration = far cheaper and satisfies the need to explore while being much more useful than space shit

We can do both, and should, as the technologies and discoveries are applicable to each other. What we learn about the deepest points in the ocean, especially hydrothermal vents and the technology used to reach and study them applies directly to a hypothetical probe mission to the under-ice ocean of Europa. We know it is geologically active and almost certainly has hydrothermal vents of it's own, and around every such vent on Earth we find thriving chemosynthetic ecosystems. Who knows what we might find on Europa.

[Anonymous No.4472378]

>>4472362
Forget the tits, what's this thingie?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472387]

The Europan ocean is estimated to be between 30 and 60 miles deep. By volume it dwarfs the ocean of Earth and the depth is many times beyond anything we've ever attempted. It represents the ultimate challenge, the most tantalizing target for the search for life in this solar system and the next logical step for oceanic exploration advocates after we master the deepest points of our own terraqueous globe.

[Anonymous No.4472388]

>>4472378
Light attack sub?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472392]

>>4472378

That's a fighter sub. Aquanox is similar to Freelancer although much more linear, and underwater in a post-apocalyptic future.

Both games are very cheap on Steam and highly recommended.

[Anonymous No.4472403]

>>4472392
>post-apoc
irradiated atmosphere and blasted land forces civilization to move underwater for reasons described in the pic?
I'm game.

[Anonymous No.4472407]

>>4472378
>Forget the big tits in the tight wetsuit up front in the foreground, what's that cool looking little sub in the corner of the picture

Typical seabro

[Anonymous No.4472408]

>>4472407
>mahdrills.gif
I wish the hairdrills were spinning
That would make it perfect.

[Anonymous No.4472412]

>>4472387

But we would need decades to come up with communications and travel technology. How are we going to get things like roads, phones, printers, computers, weapons, and territories established in an ocean.

Remember how long it took the pioneers to remove the natural landscape and begin plotting things agriculturally? We have decades of experience in plotting roads and other land-comm devices. It seems very retrogradive to invest that huge a quantity of time when we can simply continue on this linear and understood path.

That being said, I believe the ocean life and terrain is very predictable, albeit intuitively intriguing. All life on land has 4 legs and a calcium skeleton, and life in the water may be predictable.

Tl'dr: Biotech, then planet settlement, before sea exploration.
But we need to hit the pedal on both projects soon, fast, and hard.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472417]

>>4472403

It plays very much like Freelancer in terms of combat, the progression of better subs you acquire throughout the game and the freedom in the order in which you take on missions from the various cities and outposts you dock to. However while you can with some limited freedom use Entrox to travel between those regions in the first game, in the second game it's a straight progression from one to the next as the story progresses, the only freedom being the order in which you take on the missions offered in each location.

It is mainly about fast paced combat and customizing the loadout of your sub.

[Anonymous No.4472430]

>>4472403
>cgi: two cgi pictures
>reality: one photograph and one cgi picture.

now the facts of the other things.
a gamma ray bust would not destroy everything on the surface it would merely weaken the ozone layer letting in more UV. Simply shade would be adequate protection and both land and sea ecosystems would be affected greatly.

Asteroid impacts would greatly affect both in the same way. Both would be at risk from the strike and both ecosystems would collapse over time without sunlight.

nothing against sea but that image is stupid.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472434]

>>4472412
>But we would need decades to come up with communications and travel technology. How are we going to get things like roads, phones, printers, computers, weapons, and territories established in an ocean.

We don't need those things. People will live in the sea, but realistically only in small numbers, as in most cases colonists will be employees living on the work site of an undersea farm or renewable energy installation. Wherever it can be things will be automated but based on how the farming is done and how undersea welding/inspection teams are currently still comprised of human divers where oil rigs are concerned it's likely widespread oceanic power and farming installations will employ humans as well, and they benefit greatly from having employees who live very close and can perform inspections and maintenance daily rather than monthly for the same pay.

This is an entirely workable model which would support a few hundred, max, living in the ocean as permanent residents. Perhaps a few thousand in a distant futuer, Kardashev level 1 scenario. But within our lifetimes there will be undersea colonies, not cities or nations.

This should not be a disappointment for the realist; it is remarkable in the first place that we are approaching a time in history when we can speak matter of factly about humans going to live in the ocean.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472459]

That last pic is the fantasy. This one is closer to the reality. A living and working complex which houses and provides for 100 families, although total populations of 100 individuals or less are more likely, and in the early days only a few dozen.

The first will be utilitarian looking collections of steel cylinders. As colonies become higher budget affairs and cater to a wealthier clientele they will be built using the same materials and principles employed today to build aquariums, with large curved acrylic windows and panoramic transparent tunnels. These colonies will be geared more towards tourism than anything industrially or agriculturally productive.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472528]

For the time being the reality is stuff like this, luxury underwater restaurants, resorts, spas and hotels for the wealthy. The Maldives has two undersea restaurants that I know of and one spa, while there's another undersea restaurant in Israel, a hotel in the US, a resort intended for Fiji being constructed now and a resort with rentable apartment pods (technically the first colony) under construction in Palawan, Philippines courtesy of the international resort chain Coral World Parks. There is also of course Atlantica but aside from the four man prototype which is paid for and nearing completion, it's continued funding is uncertain and will rely entirely on attracting new investors by the demonstration of the 4 man unit in Florida.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472532]

Here's another good shot of the Ithaa although it is in pitifully shallow water compared to the one in Israel.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472546]

Here are the wealthy douchebags who will provide the tourism dollars necessary to sustain colonists' way of life.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472553]

Here is a similar module turned into a single suite hotel room. Undersea lodgings do not need to be cramped or inelegant.

[Anonymous No.4472558]

>>4472434

You aren't accounting for the human factor. Even if you take 100 years designing architecture, human factors and socioeconomics limit effectiveness.

For example, on land, you may have the greatest skyscrapers, apartments, condos, transit, etc. but simple things like, say, noise, and familial distance, will affect people's decisions to live there and linear compensation may not be enough.

You will require a scheme that is concrete and meets all demands of human desire. For example, instant communication with family and friends, visits, low noise level, comfort living...etc.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.4472563]

>>4472558
>You will require a scheme that is concrete and meets all demands of human desire. For example, instant communication with family and friends, visits, low noise level, comfort living...etc.

These issues were first addressed during the 1960s man in the sea program and were resolved. There is no longer any technological limitation which prevents the provision of comfortable, cnvenient living space under the ocean, it's a matter of establishing enough in the way of subsea agriculture and industry that there is a business case for putting people there.

[Anonymous No.4472607]

>>4467919
>You can't dump responsibility on the advertiser for the consumer not being smart enough to research their purchases.

By that logic you can't blame people who sell lemons (cars that don't run) for the consumer not being a mechanic.

Over all advertisers make it their job to deceive people into buying things they don't want or need at a price is that is higher than the item's actual value.

[Anonymous No.4472612]

>Cameron

...why the fuck isn't Herzog doing this? The docu could've been so awesome.