/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4417102]

Hey /sci/. Is there actually any basis for this image? Thanks

[Anonymous No.4417105]

It doesn't matter. Regardless of whether some group of people is less intelligent on average, it isn't fair to treat them based on their races intelligence rather than their personal actions.

also, sage

[Anonymous No.4417106]

>>4417105
>sagefail

[Anonymous No.4417107]

>>4417105

cool sage, let me do it for you

[Anonymous No.4417109]

>>4417105

...I realize that. I'm not a bigot. Why can't you answer the question without feeling white guilt?

[Anonymous No.4417110]

>>4417107
>>4417106
>>>/b/
your newfag is showing

[Anonymous No.4417111]

ITT: White people overwhelmed with guilt too scared to answer the question

[Anonymous No.4417113]

>>4417111
You're trying too hard. It's embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.4417116]

oh sweet, a eugenics threads on /sci/

[Anonymous No.4417117]

>>4417102
The amount of genetic diversity of the human race is pathetically small. There is less genetic difference between you and any human on the planet vs two chimps living in the same group. I'm unaware offhand as for the comparison with dogs.

Finally, there is no compelling evidence of a difference, and what little evidence there is suggests at worst a difference of less than a standard deviation, meaning that it doesn't make much sense to tailor racial specific policies. Instead, judge a person based on their actions and past behavior. Far better indicator.

[Anonymous No.4417119]

>>4417116
Eugenics, not yet. Just a race question.

[Anonymous No.4417120]

Blacks have a lower average IQ than whites.

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1977-07996-001

Black children adopted by white families still have lower IQs than their white school peers, even if their white parents are well educated.

[Anonymous No.4417121]

>>4417120
hi OP

[Anonymous No.4417122]

>>4417120
If it's the study I think it is, it has a pathetically low sample size, response bias, and it does nothing to address the question of whether they perform worse because of racism directed against them for having black skin.

[Anonymous No.4417123]

>>4417120

Once again, retards. I'm not racist. But this seems to be really the only one backed up with statistics. If you guys want to stop feeling the white-guilt then please show me some statistics proving otherwise.

And yes, I realize the above stats do not prove the issue, but they do support it.

[Anonymous No.4417127]

>>4417123
>To separate genetic factors from rearing conditions, 130 Black and interracial children adopted by advantaged White families were studied.
Does nothing to address "rearing conditions" experienced while at school as a result of differing skin color.

The hypothesis is near impossible to test.

[Anonymous No.4417128]

Not all white people are smart.
Not all black people are stupid.

Person should be evaluated based on personal abilities.

/thread

[Anonymous No.4417130]

>>4417123

...That's not OP, I'm OP...

Anyways, didn't the study you posted there actually say that the 130 black adoptees scored higher than average? I mean it's a low sample size but still.

And guys, it's okay to have some racist thoughts every once in a while. Every normal human being has them.

[Gilgamesh !!JNVkU2/omZB No.4417134]

Post the full text of that article.

[Anonymous No.4417135]

>>4417130
>130
Not even close to statistically useful. Call me when you get a study with 1000.

[Anonymous No.4417137]

hey OP, stop arguing with yourself

[Anonymous No.4417138]

>>4417128

A thousand times this.

No matter how many times you say it, some people just won't quite understand.

[Anonymous No.4417140]

>>4417137

Hey douche, I've only posted twice ITT. How about you actually post some studies instead of being an asshole?

[Anonymous No.4417142]

>>4417140
Different anon. No need to post studies when I see yours is bullshit, and I think the question is largely close to impossible either way. Whatever the difference, it's within a standard deviation, so who the fuck really cares?

[Anonymous No.4417145]

>>4417142
>close to impossible to answer either way*
Fixed.

[Anonymous No.4417146]

>>4417142

Jesus Christ the people on here are retardedly hostile. Why is this so horrible to ask? I'm not a psychopathic white supremacist. I found that photo on /b/ and was genuinely curious. Relax.

[Anonymous No.4417147]

>>4417146
That's not hostile. You haven't even seen hostile.

The fact remains your study is bullshit. It doesn't even attempt to try and account for differing experiences in the culture at large, including school, because of different skin color. It's been demonstrated numerous times that black people are treated worse in their everyday lives, and this will affect them.

[Anonymous No.4417149]

>>4417147
In addition to the pathetically low sample size that probably doesn't even make the conclusions statistically significant.

[Anonymous No.4417150]

>>4417147

Holy fuck. That isn't my study. Some random guy posted that. Why on Earth would I ask a question and then answer it in my own thread?

[Anonymous No.4417153]

>>4417150
I don't follow. That's a non-sequitir. I wasn't hostile.

[Anonymous No.4417155]

>>4417146
>>4417150
Oh, I see, you object because I said "your study is bullshit". I'm sorry "the study is bullshit". Moreover, there are no good studies on this topic, so none can be posted.

[Anonymous No.4417158]

>>4417123
>But this seems to be really the only one backed up with statistics.
Backed up with statistics? Those statistics were biased, hence WRONG.
The only thing you can further derive from this study, keeping this in mind, is that the authors were either poor scientists or did this knowing this shortcoming.
>If you guys want to stop feeling the white-guilt then please show me some statistics proving otherwise.
If you are capable of understanding the term "white-guilt", you have to be able to grasp the implications - no one can dare to make a study like this without nuking his career.
>>And yes, I realize the above stats do not prove the issue, but they do support it.
NO.

[Anonymous No.4417161]

>>4417158
Moreover, there is no plausible ethical study I know of that could be done to settle the question. There is an inherent anti-black bias in western culture, and it's basically impossible to account for. You could raise kids in a sterile enclosed isolated environment for their entire lives, that would do it, but can't happen ethically.

[Anonymous No.4417162]

Ok then, let's assume that all races do have equal intelligence and most of it depends on nurture instead of nature.
What caused our species to be different in terms of intelligence between races when dogs ARE different between "races"

[Anonymous No.4417164]

>>4417162
Genetics.

[Anonymous No.4417165]

>>4417161
>inherent
Sorry, a better word would be omnipresent.

[Anonymous No.4417168]

>implying evolution isnt just dumb mad up bullshit white people invent to make themself feel better

[Anonymous No.4417171]

>>4417168
That's new. I give you props. Evolution as a white supremacist conspiracy, despite the high correlation between denying evolution and being a white supremacist religious bastard. Still, props for originality.

[Anonymous No.4417172]

>2012
>still believing in evolution
>white people

LOL

No wonder dumass whites so fukin atheist now compared to us

[Anonymous No.4417176]

[Anonymous No.4417179]

>>4417176
What does that tell me about the problem? That it's not just spending money on schools? Any teacher could tell you that. It's the culture at the homes of the black kids, the culture in school of the black kids, and the endemic discrimination the black kids suffer in every facet of their lives.

[Anonymous No.4417181]

It's funny how it's proven fact that intelligence is a genetic trait and you can openly say it for any other animal and people do except for humans...

Also the word black hole is fucking racist as fuck, apparently. Google "black hole racist". Science is RACIST!

[Anonymous No.4417183]

One of the biggest problems with this is that there's no real way to measure intelligence. IQ isn't a really complete index; it's just for problem solving and spatial reasoning iirc. By no means a comprehensive mathmatical analysis of everything that we associate with intelligence.

That said, if we do say that IQ is directly related to "Intelligence", the distribution within a demographic can be modelled as a gaussian (pic related).

It might be shifted to the left for blacks, I don't know, but that's just the average and it won't be shifted by much. There will still be blacks above the average for whites and there will still be whites below the average for blacks.

Thus saying "All Blacks are less intelligent than all whites and all asians" is a gross misrepresentation and is patently unfair to all the blacks that break the curve.

Never mind the fact that there's no such thing as "pure" black, just as you get a slightly different ethnicity in every different European country you go to, it was and is the same for tribes in Africa, only exascerbated thanks to not being subject to the narrowing of the population that occured as the people who would become Europeans and Asians left Africa via the Sinai peninsula tens of thousands of years ago. By that merit, we could expect grossly varying IQ scores dependant on the ethnic group in Africa the black man's ancestors belonged to. That said again; the genetic diversity of people in Africa is still nothing compared to the genetic diversity seen in Chimps.

tl;dr: People are stupid and are incapable of understanding distributions, Asians and Europeans are more closely related than most tribes in africa.

[Anonymous No.4417191]

>>4417181
It is just as unfounded to say that white people are more intelligent than black people as it is that men are more intelligent than women. There are no studies that demonstrate this anywhere near convincingly. As such, anyone who claims this is an asshat.

It is possible. It is not convincingly demonstrated.

[Anonymous No.4417214]

>>4417168

This should be good.

[Anonymous No.4417225]

No. The two canine breeds were bred for different purposes: one to guide sheep, the other for speed. To say that one is superior over the other is to have a poor understanding of evolution.

In the 90's, some of the brightest, most trained, best equipped special forces in the world tried to enter Somalia. They got their asses kicked, and barely got out of there with their lives. Drop you in Somalia, and you'd be dead within a week. You cannot hope to adapt to their environment.

That, my friend, is evolution. Not that we are superior to the dolphin because we can build atom bombs, but that the dolphin is superior to us because it is adapted to 70% of the world's surface, and we can barely manage 30%.

[Anonymous No.4417230]

>>4417225
This makes the argument that there are significant differences behaviorally between whites and blacks from their genetics. This is again undemonstrated.

[Anonymous No.4417237]

>>4417230

>DarwinFacepalm.jpg

[Anonymous No.4417239]

> Whatever the difference, it's within a standard deviation, so who the fuck really cares?

Maybe scientists?
It's a science board, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.4417241]

>>4417239
Ok, it's also unanswerable with the tools available, so thus I do not care.

Similarly, I do not care if there is an invisible deist god that made the universe. It's not detectable, so I have better things to think about.

That is what a true scientist would say.

[Anonymous No.4417246]

>>4417241

> It's not detectable, so I have better things to think about.

But different levels of intelligence amog races is theoretically decetable. So, why don't you care?

[Anonymous No.4417251]

>>4417246
I do not care about a discussion when evidence cannot be brought to bear.

[Anonymous No.4417253]

>>4417251

So I guess you don't care about theoretical physics then, do you?

[Anonymous No.4417254]

>>4417253
They are attempting to create new models specifically in ways that can be tested.

This is not happening in this discussion. No one is proposing models that could be tested.

[Anonymous No.4417258]

>>4417254

The model is that through different enviroment and different level of civilization, a difference in intelligence was formed between races.
There are many ways to test it. You could measure the IQ of adopted children from different cultures and races, which it has already been done.
While the study may not be perfect, its result seem to support this model.

[Anonymous No.4417259]

>>4417102
>Judging people who know nothing outside of their tribal lifestyle based on how educated they are
Do you say that a dog is worthless as a dog because it can't fly?

[Anonymous No.4417261]

>I don't judge people on their IQ but their previous behavior.
The sole factor determining behavior is intelligence is it not?
>it has been shown that people with high IQ are generally good at various things apart from visuospatial tests.
>Modern IQ tests have been shown to do a pretty good job measuring g, a general factor of cognitive ability
>Nature vs nurture debate has been over for many years, nature won. Intelligence is hereditary from 40-80%.
>People around the world in different cultures, mean approximately the same thing when they talk about intelligence or smarts

People implying that IQ is not important or intelligence can't be measured are ignorant, to say the least.

[Anonymous No.4417262]

>IQ
>implying psychology is science

[Anonymous No.4417268]

>>4417258
It does nothing to account for confounding effects, such as the everpresent racism encountered in public life. As such, the study is basically worthless. Well, it does at least show that blacks probably aren't smarter than whites on average, but does little to nothing to show that blacks are stupider on average, or by what amount. Well, it also gives a lower bound too, potentially. Still, by that alone, it can be contributed to either genetics or culture, and it is incredibly asinine to say either one with just this as your evidence.

Now go away troll. I get annoyed when I have to repeat myself as I have in this thread. Third time I've said this now.

[Anonymous No.4417289]

>>4417268

> It does nothing to account for confounding effects, such as the everpresent racism encountered in public life.

Since when does science need a justification in form of beeing adaptable in normal live. Maybe the benefits of such research will show only later off.
According to you, theoretical mathematics would be a waste of time.

[Anonymous No.4417293]

>>4417289
Nope. Now you're just strawmanning. Now go away until you can talk about current evidence, or possible evidence that we may collect, instead of promoting unsubstantiated factual ideas.

Mathematics gets a pass because it's not talking about empirical factual reality. It's not a science.

[Anonymous No.4417295]

>>4417251
That is an incredibly stupid statement. It is completely testable and has been. Meanwhile, it's not racist at all to say that blacks run faster or that whites are the tallest race on average. You may say these are physical traits but the brain is a physical thing too that you can measure. Blacks have the lowest neurons and cranial capacity compared to any other race. A million different statistical studies too. There's so much overwhelming evidence that they're intellectually inferior.

It's not a racist thing, it's statement of fact. Nobody here is saying whites are the smartest race because the evidence doesn't show that. In the evolution of blacks, they never selected for intelligence. They still do not and that's very apparent to anyone. The majority of blacks (it's even in studies who what certain races want in a mate or find attractive) do not find intelligence attractive as much as other races either. They never had to considering the climate and conditions they adapted in. Meanwhile, places like Europe and East Asia were incredibly hostile climates that required intelligence to survive. It wasn't a resource rich paradise like Africa where you could be lazy and select for things like how fast one could get their dinner. They needed superior technology in hunting, agriculture, and building shelter just to survive.

Oh well, it's better to live in a delusional reality where everybody is exactly equal and no groups have any traits that are superior to one another through natural selection. Nope, it's just a myth. Evolution is a myth, according to all those nice black pastors. Blacks are the most religious race in USA, after all.

Jewish people sure like what kind and number of nobel prizes blacks get though. I wonder what kind of nobel prizes blacks get? Hm.

[Anonymous No.4417301]

>>4417295

Source?

[Anonymous No.4417300]

>>4417295
>Blacks have the lowest neurons and cranial capacity compared to any other race.
No they don't. Evidence please.

[Anonymous No.4417310]

>>4417179
>discrimination
The only way blacks are discriminated against now is
1.) To give them 10 times more free money than any other race in the country
or
2.) Give them a job for no reason at all other than being black

If you seriously think people being racist is the reason they can't get their heads out their asses, you need to wake the fuck up.

IF ANYTHING, the constant free support we give them causes them to achieve nothing as a race.

[Anonymous No.4417318]

>>4417102
No. Cameron has the exact level of IQ as a nigga from sub-saharan africa. This has been well documented through examining the actions of himself and his disastrous fucking government.

[Anonymous No.4417319]

>>4417310
You are incredibly naive, ignorant, and deluded. There is an endemic discrimination. Common examples include how blacks are treated when buying houses, when getting cabs, or well basically in every interaction in their entire life. This is well documented.

That you dismiss this says everything about your position as an asshat and a troll. With that, I can see that no further useful argument may be had, and I can safely dismiss you entirely.

Good night.

[Anonymous No.4417320]

>>4417295
> Meanwhile, places like Europe and East Asia were incredibly hostile climates that required intelligence to survive.

Now that has to be a wrong conclusion. The climate in most of Africa is definitely harsher. We have our seasons, can introduce a sensible agriculture according to seasons etc.

The hot climate in Africa made it tough to live, hence most of the available energy had to be used for gathering food and water, not building shit.

[Anonymous No.4417321]

>>4417319

So surly there must be some countries where black aren't discriminated and are successful, right?

[Anonymous No.4417325]

>>4417320

However you look at it, fact is, you would need different skills to survive in those enviroments. So it's safe to assume that the local population evolved in different directions.

[Anonymous No.4417329]

More genetic diversity exists within ethnic groups ("races") than between them. For this reason (and others), there is no biologically tenable definition of "race". Hence, the question at hand is unanswerable within /sci/ context.

[Anonymous No.4417330]

>>4417319
>Common examples include how blacks are treated when buying houses, when getting cabs, or well basically in every interaction in their entire life.

I wish I could be as deluded as you.

[Anonymous No.4417336]

People that disagree with the fact that there blacks and whites have a different avg. IQ are ignorant.

I hate all of you. Ignorant pieces of fuck.
Ignorant piss me off as much as Apple/facebook/club-mate fanboys do.

[Anonymous No.4417338]

lol @ recessive gene for skin color. whitey can't have kids that looks like them, if they have sex with other races. how does it feel that you can't make a white baby pop out of a black or asian? blacks can make black kids no matter who they fuck. u mad

[Anonymous No.4417342]

>>4417329
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_Fallacy

[Anonymous No.4417345]

>>4417338
Wish I was. Mulattos can be pretty as fuck.

[Anonymous No.4417349]

>>4417338
But I don't want a black baby and I certainly don't want a black wife. (they're ugly)

I'd take an Asian though, not Chinese or Philippine though, Japanese would be my first choice followed by Korean. Oh and the Japanese/White combo is pretty decent.

[Anonymous No.4417350]

>>4417338

It's not literally a recessive gene, dumbass. It's just a social convention to consider people with one black parent and one white parent "black."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_drop_rule

Actual skin color is not controlled a single gene, and on average it splits the difference between the parents.

[Anonymous No.4417355]

>>4417350
He's just beeing ignorant ..I'm surprised you even have the motivation to argue with ignorant people..it's like talking to a wall.
It's just not worth it.

[Anonymous No.4417359]

>>4417342
Read the whole article...

[Anonymous No.4417361]

>>4417105 It doesn't matter. Regardless of whether some group of people is less intelligent on average, it isn't fair to treat them based on their races intelligence rather than their personal actions.

Collecting evidence and treating people differently because of this evidence is not the same thing. We can still treat people fairly by their accomplishments and actions without recognising what race they are from.

What about "affirmative action" / "positive discrimination"? This is harmful but it happens and it isn't based on science but political nonsense because they want to balance the colour books.

Ignoring facts because you're afraid of social consequences is not science.

Why can't we have honest information that isn't politically / socially charged? It's hindering our understanding by crying racism in the face of legitimate biological differences.

[Anonymous No.4417414]

>>4417262
It is.

[Anonymous No.4417438]

oh OP, but politicians are as intelligent as tribal niggers!