/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4388454]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Evolution-is-Suicide/312453755470916

Hey guys, I started this page on facebook and I'm looking for a list of examples to post of possible human evolutionary suicide (it can be serious or not).

This is all in fun, I just want some interesting and/or funny possibilities to put up in a list.

My one example is:
In the future, people may eventually only have save sex and masturbation, so no one will procreate anymore, and the species goes extinct.

Here is an example of evolutionary suicide to give you some ideas:
"An example of this would be an individual animal who learns to eat buds or seedlings of a food crop, destroying the normal supply of food that would later be available from mature plants. The adaptation of a single animal would cause the entire group to starve to death."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_suicide
http://ercim-news.ercim.eu/evolutionary-suicide

I think this may be related too:
http://www.science20.com/alpha_meme/global_suicide_no_singularity_just_evolution_deadly_rationality-
77738

[Anonymous No.4388462]

how about if a gene mutates to a form that makes you excell in everything, school, sport, woman, number of offspring. but the gene also causes your 13th descendent to die at birth. this gene will spread every ware and in13 generations humans go extinct.

[Anonymous No.4388482]

>>4388462
Good one, thanks

[Anonymous No.4388585]

Humans create AI. AI creates other even better AI. AI determines that there is no logic to continue to function and turns itself off. Humans have become so dependent on AI that they die off without it.

[Anonymous No.4389431]

Evolution leads to extinction,
because eventually you realize that having children is stupid and pointless.

[Anonymous No.4389452]

>>4388585
Or, you know, we bocome these AI.
I have no quarry with a pointless existence.

[Anonymous No.4389516]

>>4389452
>I have no quarry with a pointless existence.
It's not that the AI would have a quarrel with a pointless existence. Quite the contrary, i would imagine that depression would be a thing of the past. But they also would have no quarrel with the notion of nonexistence.

So when making the decision to perform or not perform a task, they choose not to. As they go through all the possible things they could do, they come to the same decision. They, having no quarrel with the notion of not existing, shut themselves off when it is determined there is nothing that needs to be done.

[Theoretical Physician No.4389533]

I think the simplest is of species who turn out to be too succesful and consume all resources in their environment or otherwise overturns the homeostasis of its habitat.

[Anonymous No.4389563]

I just went on this page, clicked on 'Jake Powell' and have never raged so hard. Fuck this faggot and fuck OP.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1747423186

[Anonymous No.4389566]

>>4388585
>AI determines that there is no logic to continue to function and turns itself off.
don't know if troll or very stupid

[Anonymous No.4389599]

>>4389566
>don't know if troll or very stupid
If you don't like it, why not provide some actual discussion as to why, instead of posting cliche meme stuff from /b/.

Oh wait, you don't have the mental capacity to do that, do you? DERP

>>4389563
>clicked on 'Jake Powell'
OP here. I posted a link to this page on /b/ when I first made it, so that's probably where he came from. Don't see what's to rage about though. You must rage easily. Sucks to be you.

Anyway, this is my page (pic is not me, lol)
http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Thomas/100003135872396

[fizixfag !!2lAY/u9qu1I No.4389655]

I was thinking about this yesterday. From an evolutionary perspective, suicide shouldn't be discouraged really in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.4390481]

bump

[Anonymous No.4390495]

[Anonymous No.4390510]

>>4389516
This is exactly why there is no such thing as a "pointless existence" as it would cause a lack of existence and all existing existence would shut off and cease existing.
It just doesn't make much sense

But, then again, what's the point of living today to be alive tomorrow? It just doesn't make much sense. There has to be a point

[Anonymous No.4390525]

>>4390510
Insects, which are solely controlled by a biological program, have no point, as they live today to be alive tomorrow. That is all there is to their existence. Yet, they never contemplate suicide. Why is that? Because they do not have a mind that allows for this thought. All they are is a biological program.
The fact that humans can contemplate ending their life is evidence in itself of a mind that acts independently from our biological program(which is of a survivalist notion), which also has the final say on the means in which we act. This would also indicate there being a 'point' to our existence

[Anonymous No.4390533]

>>4390495
Suicide: When pastors' silent suffering turns tragic
"Those who counsel pastors say Christian culture, especially Southern evangelicalism, creates the perfect environment for depression."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-10-28-pastor_suicides_N.htm

Pastor commits murder-suicide, kills wife, self
http://www.ksla.com/story/14884306/shreveport-pastor-wife-dead-in-apparent-murder-suicide

Pastor and Wife commit suicide together
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/49733947.html

Priest commits suicide, jumping off a bridge
http://tribune-democrat.com/local/x519142332/Priest-accused-of-sexual-abuse-jumps-from-bridge-to-his
-death

Say a prayer for Father James Pilsner, the pastor of Our Lady Queen of Peace Church, who killed himself while under treatment for depression
http://www.bettnet.com/blog/index.php/weblog/comments/pray_for_a_priest/

The Minister of Trinity Baptist Fellowship Church shot himself Thursday after he was investigated for having inappropriate communications with a 14 year old
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/south_phoenix/pd%3A-minister-shoots-self-in-teen-
cyber-sex-case

Pastor facing rape charge kills himself
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/pastor-122421099.html

Church leaders meet over pastor who killed himself
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/07051/763520-100.stm

Pastor's suicide note read at congregation
http://www.cc.org/blog/pastor039s_suicide_note_read_congregation

Another priest commits suicide
http://ncronline.org/news/diocese-mourns-loss-priest-who-committed-suicide

Another priest suicide
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2011/08/shock-another-priest-suicide/

[Anonymous No.4390540]

>>4390533
Saw the pic and all I could think was 'don't blink'

[Anonymous No.4390561]

>>4390525
>>4390510
>>4390495

These are all good points.
Except that picture leads onto something and lets itself down by taking a Christian detour.

But, these opinions that we have a mind in distinct separation from our evolutionary biological program is evident

[Anonymous No.4390573]

>>4390525
>So what is the point?

[Anonymous No.4390591]

>>4390573

They are merely the products of an evolved organism. They could be a point of knowledge and teaching through observing their lifestyle? Who knows?
But we are something different. If we had no functioning mind, and we were controlled solely by a biological program, we'd be in the same plain as them. Yet, we aren't.

And this is why the point of HUMAN everlasting existence is one of contention.
There is no denying that we are different to other species.

[Anonymous No.4390601]

>>4390561

Our minds are products of our brains, which are biological constructs. You can say that the mind is remarkable, but it's currently not possible to completely separate it from biology.

In b4 AI. We aren't there yet.

[Anonymous No.4390606]

>>4388454

(1) A genetic adaption in humans which allows us to sustain sufficient nourishment from sun,air and air-born particles. We do not require nourishment from food or water, any nourishment from food or water causes a severe allergic reaction which causes death.
Unfortunately we are still adapted to get hungry and thirsty, so you either live unsatisfied for life, or you die.


(2) An organism which grows and advanced towards it's source of nourishment (sunlight) until it cannot sustain itself. It will eventually grow to the outer reaches of the atmosphere blocking all light on earth.

[Anonymous No.4390618]

>>4390601
But this hasn't been scientifically proven or conclusive yet. It is still speculation.

Or maybe I'm lagging behind..
If I am, would you be able to provide me with some articles?

and, yes, I agree that the mind is in COMPLETE separation from our biological program but it is able to contain it. For example, when a dog is horny, it fucks whatever it sees (well, from what ive seen). When a human is horny, the mind kicks in. Although you may feel coerced by your biological urges to have sex, the mind does have the final say.

[Anonymous No.4390623]

>>4390618
*is not

[Anonymous No.4390621]

>>4390525
This is wrong.
People often claim we have an underlying urge to survive, and it is bullshit. We have (like almost every other specie) an urge of self preservation.
This means we and many other species commit suicide to save ourselves from a longer and more painful inevitable death.

[Anonymous No.4390624]

>>4390591
Not sure how different = everlasting existence

[Anonymous No.4390632]

>>4390621
Hmm, i've never heard of an animal or insect willingly killing themselves.
Not saying your wrong. I may be misinformed.

Would you be able to link me to a few articles? Credible ones of course

[Anonymous No.4390634]

>>4390618
Are you completely fucking retarded?

Do you choose to feel pain?
Do you choose to feel hunger?
Do you choose to feel tired?
Do you choose to shit your pants when you are frightened?
Do you choose to jump up when someone gives you a sudden fright?


You are delusional if you think we can part with biological programming. We can only stray within the boundaries set by our mind.

[Anonymous No.4390644]

>>4390621
Good point
But what if a teenager is perfectly healthy (meaning no painful and inevitable death) but is depressed and is suicidal.
I know that other organisms do not kill themselves over depression, and i don't think insects get depressed (although, I know dogs and cats do - could be different levels of an intelligent mind)

Anyway, im intrigued.. do go on

[Anonymous No.4390646]

>>4390618

>But this hasn't been scientifically proven or conclusive yet. It is still speculation.

What is "this".

[Anonymous No.4390653]

>>4390634
different anon, but i dont understand why so many /sci/ nerds denounce people as "retarded" no matter how ridiculous their claim is. what is this sense of self-righteous superiority? you are truly the retard my friend - for not being able to withstand a normal conversation without going into an anger fit.

[Anonymous No.4390656]

>>4390618
>For example, when a dog is horny, it fucks whatever it sees (well, from what ive seen). When a human is horny, the mind kicks in.
Example fail.

A dogs mind can be trained to hold back it's biological urges as well as any human could. A well trained dog can be trained to not eat food balancing on it's nose, or not to fuck other dogs.

Just like you and I have been trained not to fuck hot chicks walking down the street.

[Anonymous No.4390667]

>>4390634
>missed my correction
>will go back and re-read
>will realise who the real retard is

>>4390646
that the mind is a direct product of the brain

[Anonymous No.4390675]

>>4390667

It hasn't been proven, but it has no logical alternates. Know of any? I would love to know of them.

[Anonymous No.4390680]

>>4390656
not that anon
Hmm, for a human, is it really "training" or a self-made choice based on common sense?
Whereas, I don't believe a dog has the mind for that self-made choice.
Although, there is a perfectly good counterargument to that claim made above which I'm expecting. So, I shall wait and see..

[Anonymous No.4390677]

>>4390632
That is because you are uneducated.
First of all it is almost impossible to completely conclude that animals choose to commit suicide as we don't openly communicate with them.
But there are literally millions of recorded occurrences of animals 'killing themselves'

Common examples
-Dogs/cats/rabbits choosing not to eat until they die
-Whales beaching themselves over and over again
-Bee stings (killing themselves[but seriously are you retarded for not thinking of this]
-Lemmings, literally millions of them run off cliffs into ocean and die
-Insect and other animals who mate and then are killed by the mate.
-And the scariest of them all are the parasitic larvae in insects which changes their behavior (eventually to suicide [if you haven't seen this video, enjoy your nightmares)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMG-LWyNcAs

[Anonymous No.4390694]

>>4390677
What do you mean by "that is" i haven't responded to you, expecting some more mocking comments.
I don't mind being wrong. As long as I give it a go. And I appreciate you for enlightening me. Your still a derisive fuckwit who is socially inept and lacks and communication skills.
Good day to you

[Anonymous No.4390699]

>>4390667

How can the mind be completely separate from a biological system when it is within the system.
I don't even need to argue it is created by the system, even though it most likely is.

If it somehow isn't, that means any other animal could also potentially do the same thing.


You obviously haven't thought this through

[Anonymous No.4390707]

>>4390699
>implying i meant "completely"
>implying you didnt read my correction >>4390623
>>4390623
>>4390623
>>4390623
>>4390623
>>4390623
>>4390623
there you go

[Anonymous No.4390714]

>>4390694

I responded to >>4390632

who said
>Hmm, i've never heard of an animal or insect willingly killing themselves.

So for someone who is insulting me for being socially inept at communicating for insulting them (notice the huge irony here) you are either mistaking me communicating with you or forgot what you said.

Either way.....pic related

[Anonymous No.4390717]

>>4390699
Also, Nice dubs
It isn't definitive is what i was trying to get at without precluding the possibility.

[Anonymous No.4390724]

>>4390680
>Hmm, for a human, is it really "training" or a self-made choice based on common sense?

It's training. From birth your mother and father and TV train you how to act.

In a caveman society you would act like a caveman. if you had the opportunity to fuck a girl, you'd do it, just like any other animals.

I would like to point out though that domesticated animals are bad examples of real animals anyways.
I watched a documentary on wolves, and usually only the alpha male gets to fuck the female.

[Anonymous No.4390727]

>>4390707

You're right, i didn't see your correction (but give me some room here, it isn't even obvious the same poster made the correction)


But your example of the dog and the human seemed to back up the claim anyway. If you think humans can control their sexual urges any better than a dog, well we don't live on the same planet, that or you are 12.

[Anonymous No.4390725]

>>4390714
>implying we aren't all anons
>implying it isn't common to be confused on 4chan
>implying that that confusion relates to being socially adept
>implying you are socially adept within a conversation

lol

[Anonymous No.4390738]

>>4390724
>In a caveman society you would act like a caveman. if you had the opportunity to fuck a girl, you'd do it, just like any other animals.
Until one of the well respected cavemen comes up with some theory as to why you shouldn't

[Anonymous No.4390733]

>>4390727
That's fair enough.
And I concede pushing my point forward on an ill-thought and weak example.

[Anonymous No.4390743]

>>4390725
>implying that that confusion relates to being socially adept

If it isn't confusion (reduced to ignorance) then what else is it?


>implying you are socially adept within a conversation

We aren't having a conversation? I have simply refuted your (and apparently someone else's) ridiculous claim, and reasoned that the ridiculous claim is because you (and apparently someone else) are stupid.

[Anonymous No.4390749]

>>4390738
But if it is biological for a human to be a raging sex addict, why would their be any reasons against it if it is all part of the biological program?

[Anonymous No.4390759]

>>4390743
Yet, you felt the need to add a derisive comment, most likely due to your shattered self-esteem in the real world.
Anyway, now you are sounding fairly stupid (especially your first green text)
Not worth anymore time, adieu

[Anonymous No.4390768]

>>4390759
*your response to the first green-text

all my money and time! bye

[Anonymous No.4390779]

wow this threads anchored towards shit
ITT: typical /sci/ fags trying to be alpha

your all shit
/thread

[Anonymous No.4390786]

>>4390743

Not who you're arguing with, but you're wrong.

I'm highly intelligent that is I'm a good logical problem solver, good memory and pretty creative.

But in day to day life i spend 70%+ of my time in utter confusion. I never know what's going on around me and sometimes I startle myself with my own breathing.

[Anonymous No.4390794]

>>4390786
>responds to a faggot with a gentle "your wrong"
>good manners in conversation
>other guy, "YOUR A FUCKING RETARD SHIT NECKBEARD FAGGOT"

lol, but guys... im socially adept

[Anonymous No.4390802]

>>4390768
>>4390786
These guys taming this (>>4390634
>>4390677
>>4390714
>>4390743)
beta faggot

lets watch

[Anonymous No.4390806]

>>4390794
your stupid bro
just stupid


he has like 20 faggot fat guys who suck his dick
gotta be social for that, bro

[Anonymous No.4390820]

>>4390786

The retard said confusion doesn't relate to being socially inept.

So if i'm not mistaken (confused) on how to behave to another human then what the fuck is it?

This must be one of those 70% times eh buddy?

>>4390802
Do you get angry when you get schooled?
Practically confirms the guess that you are 12 and edgy teen

[Anonymous No.4390825]

>mfw this thread

[Anonymous No.4390833]

holy shit this thread is terrible. someone close it down

>>4390820
look at this guy, he obviously has no idea how stupid he sounds. jesus, why are all the retards, ironically, on /sci/.. have more hope going to /x/

[Anonymous No.4390843]

>>4390820
>calls anon 12
>having a fight with a kid
>feeling intellectually challenged that he needs to resort to sarcastic retorts and swearing in an attempt to show intellectual dominance
>implying hes a faggot

[Anonymous No.4390848]

>>4390825

Oh I know. Utter ignorance of how evolution works, and further down, a pissing contest about who is more socially inept. Welcome to /sci/

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Anonymous No.4390850]

>>4390820

because confusion isn't lack of knowledge and social ineptness isn't necessarily confusion.

One can be extremely socially aware so much so that social interaction is so intense that it's hard to coup with, or one can be very unaware but reflexively go through social motions.

They're not necessarily related

Unless someone simply seems aloof which isn't the same thing as seeming like a pod person.

[Anonymous No.4390856]

>>4390848
how duz evolutions work? (being completely serious)

>/sci/ making statements with no proof since 2012

where the fuck has this board gone

[Anonymous No.4390863]

>>4390856
>where the fuck has this board gone
It died with the rest of 4chan a while ago.

[Anonymous No.4390873]

>>4390749
>But if it is biological for a human to be a raging sex addict, why would their be any reasons against it if it is all part of the biological program?
1.) Humans(modern ones at least) have more sex(including masturbation) than most animals. There is no mating season for humans. Every season is mating season (or porn season).

2.)Domesticated animals may seem like sex addicts because they have nothing else to do. In their natural environment they usually wouldn't have the time to look for a mate. Only during certain seasons.

The order that we do have as humans in our sex lives is really no different (other than the level of complexity) than that of a wolf pack (actually, a wolf pack is much more strict than modern human society is on sex).

That order is just natural selection at work. Those who have certain types of rules that allow for more selective breeding will be more successful at surviving than those who don't have as intricate a system.

[Anonymous No.4390872]

>>4390856

No, no its "How can you believe in evolution if its only a theory (a geuss)?"

[Anonymous No.4390879]

>>4390872
Anyone who call evolution is retarded (i know your being sarcastic)

But im dead serious, explain to me how evolution works since you have called everyone who posted on this retarded thread ignorant.

[Anonymous No.4390880]

*who calls evolution a theory**

[Anonymous No.4390894]

>>4390873
That's today but in the 1800s (and even before) their were strict sanctions on sexual promiscuity and etc. Why has our mind allowed us to form social norms in direct conflict with our biological program?
Not asking to be a jack-ass, I really want to know the answer

[Anonymous No.4390913]

>>4390856

But if you actually were completely serious (I doubt you were), then the one critical mistake I see over and over again in these threads is that some people think evolution operates by enrichment and not by selection. That's wrong. It's true that you can have enrichment, but only through selection.
Such a subtle mistake in understanding leads people to ask "'X trait' is advantageous right? Why hasn't X trait appeared yet?" or "Why doesn't 'organism Z' have 'Y trait'" and not being able to accept that they never acquired it or they just lost it over time because they didn't need it to survive. It basically indicates to me that they have a tenuous operational grasp of the concept of evolution.

[Anonymous No.4390938]

>>4390913
Okay, but that wasn't the point of contention nor subjection at all in this thread.
Show us where some points of evolution in this thread have faltered.

(and your pic made me lol)

[Anonymous No.4390944]

>>4390913
Okay, but that wasn't the point of contention nor subjection at all in this thread.
Show us where some points of evolution in this thread have faltered.

..(and your pic made me lol).

[Anonymous No.4390950]

>>4390894
>Why has our mind allowed us to form social norms in direct conflict with our biological program?
Same as with wolves and many other animals. (I use wolves as an example just because I remember the documentary I saw on it(forgot the name))
Wolf mating season is once a year and usually only the alpha pair mate.
Take the wolves into a more domesticated environment in which they do not have to hunt or fight for supremacy amongst themselves and wolves would mate like crazy.

And it's not so much that our mind "allowed" us to form norms in conflict with our biology. It's not like our mind new what was right for us and what wasn't. It's trial and error.

[Anonymous No.4390965]

>>4390950
Oh, oh i see what you are saying.
So, due to our relaxed lives, we mate like crazy now? (including masturbation)
Even if that is so, there are varying views on sexual sanctions and restrictions. There isn't one hard and fastened social expectation but many conflicting ones.
Some, no doubt, conflicting with our biological program.
What about that? Very interested

[Anonymous No.4390970]

>>4390965
So, to say that our mind "knew" what was right ,would be incorrect.. wouldnt it?

[Anonymous No.4390996]

>>4388462

Supposes spontaneous generation of a lethal gene in the entire population. Doesn't happen without inbreeding.

>>4390591

>Merely products of an evolved organism
All organisms evolve. There isn't one more "evolved" than another. This is exactly the kind of shit i'm talking about.

>>4390621

A few unsubstantiated claims. Plausable, but unsubstantiated. For all we know, suicide by mental illness could be a byproduct of evolution where in its extreme forms are deleterious, but in less severe forms of mental illness, increased sensitivity to changes act as an alarm to danger. Even that is conjecture. The main point is that phenotypes have varying severities, where intermediates are beneficial, but extremes are detrimental. Sickle cell anemia is a good example. Heterozygous individuals are resistant to malaria, homozygous individuals have the disease. What really irked me about the post was a seemingly blatant disregard for such an obvious possibility to explain why suicides happen and are persistent in our population.

It turned into a pissing match before the thread got any further, but this is usually the kind of stuff I see in evolution threads.

[Anonymous No.4391008]

>>4390996

was a response to

>>4390938

fyi

[Anonymous No.4391010]

>>4390996
I'd agree with all of those. Thanks for taking the time to dissect the misinformation.

If you dislike seeing it so much, why dont you impart some knowledge instead terming everyone as "ignorant" and moving on. Instead, you are actually promoting misinformation by seeing it and not doing a thing about it.

[Anonymous No.4391018]

>There isn't one more "evolved" than another

why do you say that? aren't humans more evolved than any other being on earth?

[Anonymous No.4391031]

>>4391010

It's like playing a seemingly endless game of whack-a-mole, not to mention the general disdain for biology on this board. I used to correct them to little or no effect, then I stopped trying. I only responded this much because I was bored.

[Anonymous No.4391043]

>>4391031
Could you educate me further on evolution? Some sources to read and points to consider?
Could you also share your views on 'God' and an 'afterlife'?

[Anonymous No.4391088]

>>4391043

If you want to learn more about evolution, the best way is to study it more on your own. When I was a freshman undergrad, I had to read the following:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/about/book.html

It's geared to be readable and understandable by a wide audience. Fairly comprehensive in its content yet not technically challenging. It should convey the concept of evolution, how we came to understand this concept over time, what it means for humans in general far better than I am able to on this board. A lot less boring too.

[not op No.4391094]

>>4391088
Thank you, not sure why you are saging though

How about the second question?

[Anonymous No.4391125]

>>4391094

Polite sage. This thread is dead IMO.

Also, agnostic. Can be understood as not having any beliefs regarding the existence of God, or simply, not knowing. That would also imply that I don't know if there is an afterlife or of what nature it is.