PhD Program Help

[Anonymous No.4312795]

I'm not sure if I should put this here or on /adv/.

I applied to a PhD in Bio and I've been invited to visit their campus. They're comping everything, which I'm guessing is a good sign. My old profs told me it means I'm one of the few they're considering.

My problem is that I really fucked up my ungrad. However I did awesome post-bac and got high 90's on my GREs and that's what I'm guessing put me over the top.

I know I'm still competing against the others I'll be meeting there and I need to know what's going to help me outshine all of them. I don't really know what to expect, I haven't done too many interviews in the past, and none that I actually cared about.

Some things I'm already doing:
background research on the school's program
reading papers written by the professors
reading more papers in my area of interest

What else can I do to prep myself?

[Anonymous No.4312815]

>biology
>a hard science

[Anonymous No.4312826]

>>What else can I do to prep myself?
Not much.

When you get to the interview, be completely upfront about why you fucked up your undergrad if they ask. Don't try to polish it up or bullshit them with excuses. They'll appreciate the honestly and the fact that you got your shit together, especially if you can cite a reason why (e.g. some source of renewed motivation).

Also, it might sound meaningless, but just be yourself. It's not just about how much you know or how much you're willing to work. They need to know if they want to work with you for the next few years and if you come of as some obsequious sycophant who just jumps through hoops for them then you'll either get hired by assholes who will expect you to do that for years and make you miserable, or they'll think you're an asshole and take someone else. There's really no point in putting up some image that you think they want to see.

So yeah, honest, and keep reading up about what they're doing, but not just to impress them. Make sure it's what you really want to do.

tl;dr: doughnuts

[Anonymous No.4312840]

>>4312826
>be completely upfront about why you fucked up your undergrad if they ask

I've done that from the beginning. When I first e-mailed them, when I talked to their director of grad affairs, in my personal statement. I always figured it's better to slay that dragon first.

I don't really know the format of the meeting yet, I'm thinking of possibly e-mailing some current doctorate candidates at their school to glean more info on them and the meeting.

[Anonymous No.4312861]

Be positive and happy that you got this far. Grad school is more about your ability to translate what you learned to something useful. Few people can actually do that in academia. Always read many papers and textbooks to stay up to date and current. If you be yourself , it would be a right fit.

[Anonymous No.4312877]

>>4312795

>My problem is that I really fucked up my ungrad. However I did awesome post-bac and got high 90's on my GREs and that's what I'm guessing put me over the top.

You're not the first person to fuck up during undergrad (and, you certainly won't be the last). The post-bac and GREs show that you are not the same student that you were in undergrad.

>I know I'm still competing against the others I'll be meeting there and I need to know what's going to help me outshine all of them. I don't really know what to expect, I haven't done too many interviews in the past, and none that I actually cared about.

Use your experience to your advantage. The difference between you and the rest of the 21-year old ass-clowns is that you've faced adversity, and you've re-focused your efforts. You know what you want (a PhD), and why; you're not going through the motions because your undergrad adviser told you that you'd need a PhD, or because your parents want you to "just do something" after college. You fucked up. Shit happens. Now, you're older and wiser. You are more mature.

>Some things I'm already doing:
>background research on the school's program
>reading papers written by the professors
>reading more papers in my area of interest

>What else can I do to prep myself?

From the second you walk into the interview room, be able to clearly articulate why you want to study that specific sub-discipline for the next six years of your life (note: this is different from why you want the letters "Ph.D." after your name). Have a strong grasp of the current projects of the faculty member that you're interested in working for, and be able to explain how you can contribute to his or her research.

Prove that you can be a future scholar in your field. And, prove that your failings in undergrad are in the past, that you are a different student from the kid who fucked up in Intro Bio or GenChem or whatever.

[Anonymous No.4312886]

Also be open and social. Be friendly. The people who pick you know they're going to have to work with you for 5+ years.

[Anonymous No.4312901]

>>4312826
OP here

I want to bring a small present for their director of grad affairs and their grad office clerk. Not to brown nose, but because they really helped me out through the application process. Would it look too much like trying to be a weasel if I did that?

[Anonymous No.4312919]

>>4312901
>Would it look too much like trying to be a weasel if I did that?

Yes. I know if someone did that while applying in our group, we'd all be giving the Costanza. People talk, and that makes you look silly.

[Anonymous No.4312925]

>>4312901
OP, I would like to know how you fucked up your undergrad if you don't mind. Not to poke fun, but for genuine interest. I may be in the same boat as you. I really fucked up my second year of college. I need hope.

[Anonymous No.4312980]

>>4312919
Thanks for the heads up. Maybe if/after I've been accepted. I don't want to look like a tool, just show my gratitude.

>>4312925
Pretty fucking bad. Started in poli-sci. My only sci work was taken as graduation requirements, mostly B's and C's. Failed electro-magnetics 4 times. Second to last semester I failed every class -- EVERY CLASS. Barely got my degree.

Spent six months fucking around, arguing with creationists and homeopaths. I knew enough to know they were wrong. Then I decided that wasn't enough. Started reading a lot. Spent 2 years to take college extension classes in bio. Got about 50 semester units in extra classes.

Took the GREs got high 90s.

Applied for Masters programs, e-mailed grad director for info on their program who then advised me to apply for PhD.

Applied for PhD.

Got invited to to visit campus.

Now freaking out about campus visit.

I hope you enjoyed this window into my torment.

[Anonymous No.4312985]

>>4312980
OP again

side note, those 50 post-bac units were all A's and A-'s

[Anonymous No.4312993]

>>4312980
Congratulations, sir. You are a hero to me. I only hope I can achieve what you did after my fuck up.

[Anonymous No.4313028]

>>4312993
It's not hard, just grit and bear it. It's going to be hard and it's going to expensive to get classes at college extensions, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

[Anonymous No.4313033]

>>4313028
Damn straight, how old are you btw?

[Anonymous No.4313043]

>>4313033
25

Quarter century old, I'm basically dead, lol.

[Anonymous No.4313051]

>>4313043
Did you do lab research as a post bacc?

[Anonymous No.4313063]

>>4313051
Class project level stuff mostly.

Assignment was to design and execute an experiment. I decided to do an experiment on homeopathy.

I picked an enzyme, cultured cells that made that enzyme, isolated and purified it, ran it against different concentrations of substrate. Nothing surprising. The project was more for myself than to impress anyone.

I also did other lab stuff, but light on research.

Outside of that all my other research is done reading journals and watching documentaries. My two big things are evolutionary genetics and the minimum genome project.

I guess it's fair to say I've come a long way from being a failing poli-sci undergrad.

[Anonymous No.4313147]

>background research on the school's program
>reading papers written by the professors
>reading more papers in my area of interest

So knowing the school's program is good, because everyone will ask why you're there.

Count on it. Don't rehearse a response but be ready with it.

Unless you know that you are on lock with certain professors with certain interviews, don't go too overly in depth with reading their stuff.

They are likely to change interviewers on you. It happens. You'll probably get a wild card interview. It TOO happens. Keep your cool.

When I interviewed at the place I'm currently going, I had not one interview they initially told me I was set up for. Nerve wracking.

Don't act overly "alpha" but don't be a shut in autist either. If there are other applicants there, interact. Be friendly. If you go out afterwards, order something of moderate price. If they allow alcohol, do not get drunk.

Be friendly and ask questions to any grad students you meet. Ask about lab space, average time to graduate, what the town life is like, and what the workload is like.

Be friendly, be yourself, and be curious and willing.

I'm sure I'm repeating what others have said here. If they're paying your way you probably have it though.

Do you mind telling us what school? Or at least a region?

No judgement, just curiosity.

[Anonymous No.4313158]

>>4313147

I forgot to mention, professors LOVE to talk about their research.

Seriously, ask them what they're doing specifically. State that you've read some of their articles and you'll get back "Oh that's my old work. This is what we do now."

And roll with the questions. I bullshitted for my entire interview with a professor I wanted to work for (aging laboratory). It's a shame he ended up being a terrible PI.

[Anonymous No.4313183]

When I finish my degree because I didn't start right away on what I should have I will be 25 when I start my PHD

Feels bad

[Anonymous No.4313211]

>>4313183

>Feels bad

Don't, a slight majority of most doctoral classes are still older. Most still come in with Master's around that age.

[Anonymous No.4313254]

>>4313147
Yeah they're paying my way. It's probably going to cost them ~$1000 to fly me out and house and feed me.

I'm from California, the school is in NY.

I haven't received an itinerary yet. From the e-mail they sent me it sounds like a meet and greet, no mention of an interview is given, but I'm guessing it's to be expected.

[Anonymous No.4313327]

>>4313147
What's a wildcard interview?

[Anonymous No.4313361]

>>4313254
From what I understand what I've heard, if they're flying you in you've got a really good chance.

By flying you in they're already making a fair investment in you. They want you already, all they want from you is to seal the deal.

You'd be surprised by the number of people who go to interviews completely clueless. There are candidates who don't know basic things like what the school is notable for; things that you WOULD know if you actually wanted to be accepted.

Remember that it's not just about you wanting a PhD; it's about why their school would be a great place for you and why you would be great for their school. Remember it's a reciprocal relationship you're trying to build.

[Anonymous No.4313369]

>>4313327

>What's a wildcard interview?

Basically someone way outside of your field of interest/research.

It's not guaranteed but it tends to happen when the administration doesn't know you exactly/professors can't make interview times.

For instance, a few of the people in my class had to interview with a professor who works on carbohydrates if any of their previous work even hinted at working with sugars.

His first statement when they sat down "Now draw out glucose and these two other carbohydrates in three different configurations. You SHOULD know this."

I was quizzed on species names of plants because I spent a year doing molecular genetics work on plants (taxonomy vs. genetics).

I don't think they're set there to be "gotcha" interviewers but they can certainly make you sweat.

[Anonymous No.4313388]

>>4313369
Jesus fuck, how do I deal with that?

[Anonymous No.4313407]

>>4313361
>From what I understand what I've heard, if they're flying you in you've got a really good chance.

is this true? How much screening has been done before this step?

[Anonymous No.4313447]

>>4313388

>Jesus fuck, how do I deal with that?

Don't lose your cool. If you don't know something, admit it freely because they'll know if you're bullshitting.

Don't fret, it may not even happen. Just don't freak, maybe give it a good try before giving up, and then move the conversation to the school/research. Just exude interest.

>is this true? How much screening has been done before this step?

Your GRE, GPA, and research experience play a big part.

When a school flew me out, I was already accepted. They called it an interview.

Don't get too comfortable, but if they're spending $1000 on you they are very interested in you.

[Anonymous No.4313507]

>>4313447
OP again, I was just going over the e-mail they sent me and they never mention an interview, they say they're inviting me to a "symposium."

It sounds a lot more like a meet and greet than anything else.

[Anonymous No.4313540]

>>4313507
sounds like they've already made up their mind

gg OP

[M No.4313565]

I'm a current PhD student in an engineering field, and I've been through the same stressful process. My undergrad transcript was ok, with a 3.42 GPA but not anything outstanding for the schools I was applying to. My GRE, at 730 Quant was below average for every program I wanted to enter although my Writing score was very high.

In my favor was 2 years of Masters research, and excellent letters of recommendation from my advisers, both of whom were famous, and one letter from one of the best researchers in the field. I also made an effort to fly to the schools I was applying to BEFORE the application process and met with all the faculty I wanted to work with.

The meetings were critical, and this is where you are now. Like you, I read some of their papers and knew their interests. When I sat down with them, I had a list of things I wanted to go over. I looked at the posters their students had made, and was able to make comments on the method, results...etc to show that I knew what I was talking about. I controlled the conversation in most interviews, but was not overly aggressive. I made an effort to meet the students currently in the group and make friends, because one important factor in your acceptance is how well you work with others.

[M No.4313581]

Overall then, I would say to treat the interviews as if they were semi-important meetings with more distinguished peers. That is, you respect them and will speak more formally, but you will still state your mind, and be enthusiastic about your interests. The slightly more casual nature of the meeting will allow your personality to come out a little bit more.

Don't shit on yourself about grades, and don't stress grades too much period. You're not getting your PhD in coursework, and if you stress courses too much your potential advisers might not think you'll be that focused on what you're being hired to do. Think of 1 or 2 questions you can ask about each paper you've read, and think of how you interests can tie in to the current research focus of various advisers.

[Anonymous No.4313585]

>>4313565
What's typically on those boards? I think I'm going to be looking at a lot of those

[M No.4313588]

>>4313507
Tell me how many people you think will be there, how many professors, and how many students. I experienced a similar thing for a highly competitive fellowship and was completely blown away by the whole thing.

[Anonymous No.4313593]

>>4313588
Well I don't really know exactly.

Looking at the entering classes for the past few years it looks like there are ~10 accepted students every year so I'm expecting ~10-15 applicants.

There are ~40 faculty total, no idea how many will be there.

I'm guessing ~20 grad students with boards.

[M No.4313599]

>>4313585
Probably the same thing as in any hallway of a science building. You have the abstract, purpose, methods, results, discussion, conclusion.

When confronted with a poster that I had never seen before, I might say, "oh, this looks interesting" after which the professor will naturally talk about it. While they talk, I take in only a little bit of what they're saying, and instead read the methods and look at the results to formulate a question. I then ask the question, get it answered, and we move on. It looks good if you can ask something technical on the fly about something you have never seen before. If it has ANY relation to your previous exposure in research, this can help you formulate a question as well.

[M No.4313612]

>>4313593
If it's a symposium, you must expect that people other than the professors and applicants will be there. Maybe the professor's wives, their guests, their undergrads, university staff. Undergrads might hover around their advisers, and staff might try talking to you for awhile thereby minimizing the time you have to speak with faculty. If there are any non-academic people with a faculty member at the same time you are talking with them, you have to be prepared to make casual conversation.

The applicants will be moving around faculty member to faculty member. They might try to bump you out of a conversation with casual talk that's out of your element. One guy did that to me twice to cut my time. Expect a lot of 1 on 1 conversations, but be prepared to entertain a small group. If they have alcohol, take a glass in your hand to look more mature, but do not drink until afterwards.

[Anonymous No.4313618]

>>4313599
I'm guessing it'll be a good idea to review all my old biotech techniques

[Anonymous No.4313625]

>>4313612
I'm guessing walking around with a notepad would look sort of retarded

[M No.4313650]

>>4313625
Yes, that would probably be ridiculous. What I want to tell you is just to prepare for different scenarios. It may really be just faculty and applicants. More likely than not it will include others. You need to be able to impress them in about 5 minutes. However, be able to do the same in 3 minutes and the same in 10 minutes depending upon the environment. If there are fast-paced "interviews", then use your 3 minute talk about only the most important things. If it's a relaxed atmosphere, use your longer talk which should have less critical, but more interesting things thrown in there.

It also might be a good idea to put a name on a face. It's weird to look around at nametags to identify a professor...much better to immediately walk up to someone, maintaining eye contact and say, "Hello Dr...".

[Anonymous No.4313665]

>>4313650
Note to self: study the faculty page

I typically have this sense of wonder when I learn something new about science. I find myself using words like "fantastic" and "exciting" more. It's almost like being star-struck.

Is that going to be more helpful or harmful?

[M No.4313688]

>>4313665
Those words are fine, but don't overuse them. In academia, there's usually a reluctance to gt too excited about something. Like in a paper, you want to use sentences like, "these results [support], [suggest], [indicate], [demonstrate], [prove] that...etc" in order of least to greatest confidence you have in the numbers. Using too strong a word will garner criticism. So, by their training, faculty are usually going to be more reserved in the words they use to describe something. However, that is not to say they are going to be turned off by a passionate student. Just keep it at a certain level of maturity.

[Anonymous No.4313765]

thanks M :]

[Anonymous No.4313778]

I'm really good at Neuroscience and I want to go to grad school for it. But I can't really schmooze or whatever. I'm not autist or that awkward, or even asocial. I just want to do neuroscience research. But all this networking is something I don't really do. Sometimes I feel like I'm dead in the water because of it.

[Anonymous No.4313796]

>>4313778
OP here, ditto

Poli-sci lost favor with me because of the amount of schmoozing and bullshitting it asked of me, but I guess some degree of that is necessary regardless of where you go in life.

[Anonymous No.4313846]

how should one dress to this sort of thing?

[Anonymous No.4313854]

>>4313846
I imagine business casual. Unless they tell you otherwise.

[Anonymous No.4314321]

>>4312901
Do it after you get in.

[Anonymous No.4314326]

Oh my god, is it UR?

[Anonymous No.4314330]

I think this is a good opportunity to ask, so--

Is it feasible to transfer from a small college to a big state school, like Penn State? Assuming I have basic Calc and stuff like that completed. I'm a CS major and would also like to pick up a second Math degree if I can successfully transfer

Sorry if this is offtopic.

[Anonymous No.4314363]

>>4314330
It is absolutely no problem to do that.

[Anonymous No.4314902]

>>4314326
OP here,

No.

[Anonymous No.4314934]

>>4312980
hey OP do you mind if I ask what caused that breakdown in your undergrad? agian not to poke fun, just curious

[Anonymous No.4314956]

>>4313846
>>4313854

Business casual will be the minimum, but remember that every other schmuck they bring in will be wearing khakis and a polo. You want to stand out and look like a fucking pro:

Get fitted for a suit. Make it charcoal colored, get some nice solid color dress shirts, and get a couple of dark ties; burgundy is my personal favorite, but dark blue or black works well too. Learn how to tie your own tie and avoid small pussy knots like the four-in-hand.

Some people might tell you this is overkill. Fuck them, they don't know what they are talking about. This will make you stand out, they will take you more seriously, and they'll know you can look like a real professional when you need to.

>Pic related, I don't even know this fucking guy and I want to hire him.

[pascal !n5Z3VuZapw No.4315017]

>>4314956

Also light suits with pastel colored shirts can be good looking, and helps you stand out among carboncopy office drones. Invest the extra money to use a tailor, off the rack should only be for emergencies, and poor people.

Also buy a nice overcoat. A good overcoat makes everyone look professional. And it is a 1 time expense. Well mafe overcoats can last you 30 years

[Anonymous No.4315357]

>>4314934
OP here. General disillusionment. I wanted to get into electoral politics. I saw how the sausage was made and felt better for having seen it. I also felt dirty and disheartened. The amount of two-facing and double think was completely untenable. Then I had an emotional breakdown because I felt I wasted my life and it all went downhill from there.
>>4314956
Also a /fa/g and /fit/. I was already planning exactly that. Gonna get myself fitted for a suit some time next month.

[Anonymous No.4315607]

>>4315017
OP again, I have a dark grey short peacoat. Planning on getting a navy blue trench. Thoughts?