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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4196874 No.4196874 [Reply] [Original]

so why isn't nasa sending astronauts to the moon anymore? and don't give me that 'saving human life' answer because the gov has no problem sending troops all over the world.

what is the real reason?

>> No.4196877

Too expensive and not profitable.

>> No.4196884

>>4196877
I can see nothing but profit written all over the moon. Mining, research, tourism.

Nay, the only reason I can think of is because people are fucking stupid and lazy. We are fully capable of having a colony on Mars right now, but instead the space agencies are bitching about private companies sending people into orbit.

At least Richard Branson knows what;s up.

>> No.4196897

we travel for years to mars so it'll take a lifetime to make a colony there to bring everything needed and maybe cost lifes so why bother when we live perfectly good for now here
just wait for some travelling breaktrough and we'll be all over the place

>> No.4196899

>>4196884
>Mining
There is nothing on the moon which justifies the cost of bringing it back in purely economic terms.
>research
There is no research which is justified in its cost which requires people on the moon.
>tourism
Orbital tourism has been available for decades and has been a complete flop, this would be even more expensive and even fewer people would be able to go.

>> No.4196900

>>4196897
It would take only about 9 months to reach Mars. The soil there is already capable of supporting certain edible plants.
Read more.

>> No.4196901

>>4196899
>moon
>helium 3
>doesn't know shit

>> No.4196904

>>4196899
Helium-3 is far more abundant on the Moon than Earth and is a potential fuel source.

The research possibilities on the moon are immense, including stations that could be used to monitor cosmological events that would be obstructed by the Earth's atmosphere.

Tell that to companies like Boeing, Virgin and SpaceX who all have been seeing an increase in space tourism. And quite frankly, the notion that people wouldn't pay to go to the Moon is retarded.

>> No.4196905

>>4196899

>Orbital tourism has been available for decades and has been a complete flop

>> No.4196908

>>4196901
>stop wanking over that film
not even helium 3 is the cost. the mining operation is far greater than a simple manned mission. the quantities which would be required for serous power generation would be mean you would need 20 tons a week to power the earth which means 4 million tonnes of regolith processed every week. The main problem is that helium 3 solved a problem with fusion reactors but the cost of solving this problem with research reactors is far far smaller than the cost of mining the moon.
the cost of ITER is the same cost as sending one sixth (one mission) of the Apollo mission.

>> No.4196911

>>4196905
"Seven of the space tourists flew to and from the International Space Station on Soyuz spacecraft through the space tourism company Space Adventures"

from wikipedia

>> No.4196931

>>4196901

Helium 3 is currently useless because no fusion yet, and for decades to come. Even in the future, the fusion would not necessarily need lunar helium 3.

>>4196904

>Tell that to companies like Boeing, Virgin and SpaceX who all have been seeing an increase in space tourism. And quite frankly, the notion that people wouldn't pay to go to the Moon is retarded.

Virgin galactic is just a glorified plane, confirmed for retard. SpaceX and Boeing get their funding from government and communication sattelites, no tourists.

>>4196911

Indeed, complete flop. You would need two orders of magnitude more to even begin to pay for the cost of ISS.

The real reason why we should go to the Moon is because it is a cool thing to do. There is no economic justification.

>> No.4196934

>>4196874

>what is the real reason?

The money was transferred to Shuttle and ISS programs.

>> No.4197114

>>4196934

The money was spent on military.

Space sciences receive extremely little funding in all space faring nations.

>> No.4197121

The reason the moon is so dry right now is because the last time civilization advanced to this point we used all the oil that was up there.

>> No.4197126

RAH RAH VIOLENT SIMIANS

>> No.4197141

>>4197121

Was this before or after the Mayans ascending to the gates of heaven?

>> No.4197148

>>4197141

Far before.

>> No.4197156

>>4196877

If this is true I'll be really upset. Why does everything have to make a profit? What about the fact that YOU'RE IN SPACE!

Also, Neptune and Uranus Helium3. Fuck the Moon, but we really need to explore the outer system.

>> No.4197160

>>4197156
Yeah, you're in space. Cool.

Now that there is no more Soviet Union to wave our dicks in the face of, nobody cares about that.

>> No.4197164

>>4197160

>Implying when the technology becomes financially available people would not swarm in the millions.

>> No.4197169

>>4197160

So no one thinks the future is in outer space? Are you telling me that the world leaders don't give a shit about space anymore and it was only a cold-war thing? They're not gonna bother with the possibilities of extra terrestrial mining and mineral harvesting?

>> No.4197174

>>4197169

I guess I shouldn't have such high hopes. Half of US Congress believes in God...

>> No.4197181

>>4197174

Uhhh, the problem would more be poor use of spending in military, and heavy corruption.

Gawd has nothing to do with it really, do you think your government gives a shit about space when there's no money to be made from it?

>> No.4197182

>>4197181
>>4197181


AGAIN!

HELIUM-3

>> No.4197185

>invest money now for long term benefits much later

That's just not how politics work.

>> No.4197194

>>4197182

Long as war is present, moon mining won't be around for a long, long time.

Unfortunately.

;_;

>> No.4197201

>>4197194

Wow

I'm not a hippie but I didn't think the governments priorities were this far off. Same thing with SOPA. Turns out I've been oblivious to how bad some governments can be.

>> No.4197210

>>4197201

Have you seen NASA's budget? It's fucking disgraceful.

They don't give a SHIT about space.

>> No.4197296

what if there are aliens on the moon?

>> No.4197300

>>4197296
i lol'd sorry bro

>> No.4197416

We don't need NASA to do that anymore, we've got private companies on the way: http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-moon-.html

>> No.4197474

>>NASA
>>Profit

Pick one. NASA is a government agency and can not into positive cash flow.

No one is going to the Moon now because we gave up the original system to do it. Apollo was an amazing achievement but unsustainable. It was technically right on the edge of possibility and to expensive to continue. Also the surface systems were only functional for a few days.

Damn but Apollo Applications Program would have been amazing.

>> No.4197485

We're too poor and the US would rather scrap NASA and the Post Office an shit.

>> No.4197489

>>4197485

...instead of making the rich people and corporations pay any taxes.

>> No.4197775

>>4196874
Because the plan that Obama enacted phases out manned space missions.

>> No.4199029
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4199029

>You will never see men return to the moon

>> No.4199049
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4199049

>>4196899
>There is nothing on the moon which justifies the cost of bringing it back in purely economic terms.
how about the earth running out of resources?

>> No.4199059

>>4197489

Because rich paying higher taxes is HURR STEALING OUR FREEDOMS DURR.

>> No.4199063

Oh god OP, stop before you embarass yourself more.

"I can see profit written all over the moon"

I can see fucktard written all over your posts.

>> No.4199069

>>4199063

I can see lack of content in yours.

It's time to stop posting, friend.

>> No.4199080

Our funds are better spent in spreading democratic governments with free markets around the world. Then we can all work together to achieve what is currently unfeasible for any one country.

>> No.4199090

Not ³He, a lot of silica, ready to be made into immense amounts of cheap solar cells.

Also silica + aluminium = a lot of cheap mirrors.

Get a small colony with a factory going on the moon and it can soon build a solar-powered mass driver and shooting out raw materials and construction equipment everywhere in the system.

>> No.4199096
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4199096

>>4199080
>any one country

>> No.4199100

Because America lost it's vision and purpose after 'nam and anti-science is the norm

NK has a better chance of colonizing Mars than the US the way things are going, I'm serious.

>> No.4199105

>what is the real reason?
Because we can't afford it and China can. Who cares as long as we get humans back up there?

>> No.4199108

>>4199096
Any single country.

>> No.4199136
File: 292 KB, 2520x1575, transformers3docu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4199136

bc i saw a documentary that said alien robots crashed there and we have the control pillars that can transport stuffs . pic related

>> No.4199162

>>4196884
> I can see nothing but profit written all over the moon.

No you can't, retard.

> Mining,

You have no market for the output of lunar mines. Nobody lives in space.

> research,

You're implying the GOVERNMENT will support your endeavor. YOU = WELFARE QUEEN.

> tourism.

Not profitable. MORON.

>> No.4199171

>>4199162

You fucking dolt, get off this board.

Instead of discussing things like a normal human being you just shout HURR MORON like a know-it-all little princess.

Fuck off.

>> No.4199172

>>4199162
Such compelling arguments, I cannot see how someone would disagree with you. Ad hominems really lock it in, keep up the good work.

>> No.4199232

>>4199171

That's the trouble, fagstar: Normal people dance around the topic which leads to a provably wrong consensus.

I'm right. You fagbirds are WRONG. Provably so. Lunar mining isn't profitable, since THERE ARE NO MARKETS IN SPACE FOR SUCH MINES TO SERVE. You fagbards are just looking for free government cheese which you treat as "profit", never admitting your taxes are going through the fucking exosphere to serve such selfish interests.

You are all FAGGOTS. You think making a few $100K trips to some rich fucks is going to cover TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF INVESTMENT in the launch infrastructure? Only FAGGOTS believe that one. Hence, you're FAGGOTS.

Hint: Stop being FAGGOTS about your space religion and I'll stop calling you FAGGOTS. Start ACKNOWLEDGING WHAT IS ECONOMICALLY TRUE and I'll stop calling you FAGGOTS.

>> No.4199244

>>4199172

The ad-homs are hooks, and you FAGGOTS keep biting on them. You don't have command of the facts and logic of space development. That's what's really true, here.

Want to talk about lunar mining? FIRST you'd have to admit there's NO FUCKING MARKET FOR THE MINING OUTPUT. And you various fagstars and fagbards will insist on AUTOMATED MINING, which is even more hilarious. If no one LIVES in space, then who the FUCK are you going to sell to?

You asscaptains really take the cake. YOU CAN'T ARGUE THE FACTS, SO YOU WHINE LIKE LITTLE BITCHES ABOUT BEING CALLED A BAD NAME.

>> No.4199258

>>4199232
Chill out, it's just not cool to be so vexed. You guys have different options, both with degrees of merit. Talk out the pros and cons and come to a consensus.

>> No.4199269

>>4199258

He doesn't have an opinion, he's VSG.

>> No.4199275

>>4199269
VSG? Very severely /g/?

>> No.4199280
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4199280

>>4199232
>>4199244
Of course there's a market for the product. A moon colony isn't exclusively an and to itself, but a tool to make it easier to do all the other wonderful stuff in space that we don't currently do because it's too expensive without a moon colony providing cheap materials.

For example: power satellites, reaction mass for rockets, using moon-based lasers as the Orbital Broom, solar sails for travel outsystem, space mirrors and space shades to control the Earth's climate, anti-matter miners for use everywhere in the system and so on and so forth.

It's a small mind that cannot imagine uses for cheap resources.

>> No.4199282

>>4199258
> Talk out the pros and cons and come to a consensus.

Truth doesn't require a majority rule. Consensus on this FAGBOARD is what's produced these stupid spacebros who deny all economics.

>>4199269

Since you once again failed to deal with the subject, matter, then my statements stand as irrefutable. I win.

>> No.4199283

>>4199280
>A moon colony isn't exclusively an end
ffffuck

>> No.4199285

>>4199269
ASG has become VSG?

>>4199282
Congratulations to winning the debate. I always believed in you.

>> No.4199287

Because the moon didn't destroy the twin towers. If it did then there would be people all over it.

>> No.4199289

>>4199282
>stupid spacebros who deny all economics

Space travel has no merit economically orotherwise?

>> No.4199292

>Mine an average sized metallic asteroid.

>become the richest person to ever exist on the planet

>destroy the precious metals market

>> No.4199298

>>4199280
> A moon colony isn't exclusively an and to itself, but a tool to make it easier to do all the other wonderful stuff in space that we don't currently do because it's too expensive without a moon colony providing cheap materials.

There isn't a moon colony. There will NEVER be a moon colony. Your SPACEFAGS are doing NOTHING but planning for more and more AUTOMATION.

So, what, you must therefore believe that there will be a moon colony of FUCKING ROBOTS. That's not a market.

Stop flapping your penis-massagers (ie. lips) as if you know anything. You can't talk a fucking MOON COLONY into existence, since THERE'S NO ECONOMIC NEED FOR ONE. So there will be no lunar mines. NONE.

You SCIFAGS need to put down your physics books and scifi mental-masturbation and READ UP ON FUCKING ECONOMICS. You spend your entire fucking lives ignoring that, and it just makes you a PACK OF DIPSHITS.

>> No.4199299

>>4199298
lol enjoy being a poor bitch on earth im going to be RICH NIGGA

>> No.4199304

>>4199289
> Space travel has no merit economically orotherwise?

Oh no, there are great economic benefits. But that requires THINKING LONGER THAN JUST YOUR STOCK PRICE TOMORROW AND YOUR BALANCE SHEET AT QUARTER'S END. And 0.001% of modern capitalists won't do that. Those who do, tend to get run the fuck over by the short-term simians around them.

It's perfectly obvious that the wealth of the solar system is well worth getting. But the GUYS WITH MONEY (i.e. not you, and will NEVER be you) will never agree with that. They want ROI NOW. They will never investing in something that will have huge gains that are nonetheless decades off, perhaps centuries.

Our example clearly suggests why the latter factors of the Drake Equation are so fucking small. We're going to eventually shrink the Human race (ie. violent simians) down radically because that makes the Master Class the most profits in the least amount of time, all the way down to eventual EXTINCTION.

>> No.4199307

>>4199292
>Mine an average sized metallic asteroid.

No one will do that. It's billions and billions of dollars of investment. Our worldwide Master Class will never make that investment.

>become the richest person to ever exist on the planet

Nope.

>destroy the precious metals market

Dumping all that metal on the Earth market (if you somehow manage to get it through the atmosphere without destroying it) would crash the market and strand your investment.

THUS WHY IT'S NOT FUCKING HAPPENING NOW.

(Irony; the captcha is "LIFE Ourway".)

>> No.4199309

>>4199232
>>4199244

Wow, what a faggot.

>> No.4199310

>>4199309
U jelly of him being right?

>> No.4199312

Wasn't NASA shut down? Or at least their space exploration part was, thanks to the government since Obama came into office.

>> No.4199313

>>4199298
It seems like you're the one who needs to re-read up on... well, everything.
The current economy is just a passing phase just like economies always are.
The world is not an unchanging thing and the global economy is not in stasis. Far from it.

India, China, Russia and USA have lately shown renewed interest in space and the Moon. And national interest at that, not just planning for further co-operative missions.

Conservatively concentrating on protecting your hide in the old markets while the rest of the world is busy cornering new ones is one good way to commit financial suicide.

>> No.4199319

>>4199310

>jelly

Your age is showing.

>> No.4199331

Theres plenty of profit, but not enough money or effort to throw the 'starter cash' at it to get things moving
In space, you're constantly leaking money.

Also, even with all of the precautions and checks and saftey measures in place - its still terribly unsafe in the eyes of the public. More people would recall the shuttle disasters than the things its accomplished.

Also, launching shit into space is very, very inefficient at the moment.
You'll burn through an easy quarter million dollars in fuel just to get to the upper atmosphere, and even more after that.
Shits too heavy. The fuel we're using right now is horrible.

I'm not a cynic. I love outer space. I know we'll eventually get a firm foothold on the moon, and eventaually Mars.
...we just need more time.
More time. More people. More of the public to stand up and say "Hey.. lets explore!"

At the moment though.. it ain't happening.
Just be patient.
If you're in your mid 20's right now, you're in luck.
I can nearly gurantee you'll see a human footprint and buildings on mars by the time you're 80.
Even before that if we can get over this damn 'fusion' and 'speed of light' hurdle.

>> No.4199333
File: 458 KB, 1200x800, SpaceStation13AnotherDay.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4199333

NASA exists only because of the cold war, the attempt by the USSR to enter space first (which they did) and then reach the moon (which they did not) and the absolutely stupid "We're the best!" mentality of the US populace/government. The only reason why NASA still exists today having served its "purose" of defeating the russians to the moon, is because no politician has the balls (or more likely, is stupid enough to incur the political backlash) to stop funding the program that put multiple people on an extraplanetary body multiple times.

The sad truth is no government or private organization has ever been genuinely interested in putting people into space or onto rocks that are not earth, just to do it for the experience. Wether because it simply isn't profitable to them in the definitions of money or power/control or knowledge and research... or because they fear how society would change (for the better) if they put so many people into a "We're all in this together, we can't lose our minds, we have to work together, we can't just start shoving people out of the airlock if we disagree with them, we're in this until we die, we're all persons and we're all important." situation that when they returned, they started to unfuck the way this shitball is run.

That's the real reason there are no more space heros:
At present, putting someone onto the moon gets you nothing but giving the experience of being on the moon to the person who went there, and at your expense.

Maybe when fusion gets perfected and starts being used and requires Helium-3 (if it requires He-3) we'll go there to mine what we need, but not before.

>> No.4199340

>>4199319
Is "jelly" such an odd word nowadays?
Sorry for being an oldfag, somtimes I forget that we already have 2012.

>> No.4199342

>>4199312
> Wasn't NASA shut down? Or at least their space exploration part was, thanks to the government since Obama came into office.

Clue: The Stupid-Assed Space Shuttle had been slated for end-of-program when Bush was in office.

Bush called for Mars, right? AND THEN UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP, NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENED.

The collapse of the U.S. space program was a BI-PARTISAN goal. And I approve, since THE PROGRAM NEVER WANTED TO CREATE A TRUE SPACE-FARING CAPABILITY. NASA never wanted to actually give Humanity a true next step into space.

YOU stupid fucks allowed YOUR NASA to become pre-occupied with ROBOTIC goals instead of MANNED goals. You were so in love with how clever that all sounded, that you LOST YOUR GRIP on what was truly important: Getting PEOPLE into space even if they had to be risked or abandoned there.

NASA went FULL GAY, and you let them. BLAME YOURSELF. Now your governments are doing NOTHING but gearing up to wage the Resource Wars for oil. There won't be ANY margin left for space programs and other such FAGGOTRY. You now have a future of militarism and financiers. REPUBLICANS AND JEWS. God, it's bad enough to go fucking AN HERO over.

>> No.4199348

>>4199342
lol mad

>> No.4199355

>>4199340
>jelly
>oldfag
Right. One year and counting.

>> No.4199362

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

>> No.4199364

We don't need to mine the moon. We have alchemy.

Running low on iron? Alchemy some new iron from rocks.
Need oil? Alchemy some rocks into oil.
Want gold? Alchemy some gold.

Alchemy your feces into a gold fecal brick and throw it at economists who try to tell you that what you're doing isn't "economically sustainable"

We have all we need on Earth and, if the fundamental theorem of chemistry (AKA conservation of matter) is correct, we can simply take something we have a lot of and reuse its protons, neutrons, and electrons in new atoms.

Why stop there? Man has already mastered the elements and seen many new elements come to fruition. We are not mere mortal men. We are gods. The moon? Why return? Why mine the moon? We don't need the moon unless we want its matter to use as the building blocks of something else. What would we use it for? Perhaps a giant ball of peanut butter orbiting us in space? We're gods! We can do that!

>> No.4199376

I don't know too much on the reason why but I have my own guess. Why let humans mine, research, and promote tourism on the moon? We will more than likely fuck the moon up which will affect Earth in negative ways. Maybe not at first but eventually that is probably what would happen.

>> No.4199381

>>4199342
You overlook the FACT THAT for every PERSON SENT into space, THERE must be FOOD, water, air, WASTE DISPOSAL SYSTEMS, round-trip fuel, and a PSYCHOLOGICALLY sound crew.
The first STEP in each BREAKTHROUGH involves ROBOTS due to the MASSIVE costs ASSOCIATED WITH human space flight.
>>4199333
There is currently a concerted effort by multiple countries in the world that represents genuine interest in space. It is the ISS, and it is maintained by Russian and American crew memebers, among others

On another note, a 'moon base' could serve the purpose of cheaper long distance space flight in the future, as launching rockets from the moon is much, much cheaper (no air resistance; 1/4 the gravity)

>> No.4199732

>>4199381
> The first STEP in each BREAKTHROUGH [blah blah blah]

You aren't running on breakthroughs, analraptor. Humanity is RETREATING from manned spaceflight since that's what the shrinking government money pie indicates should happen. We're in the OUTSOURCING phase of that, where free govt cheese is flowing into these so-called private launch and spacecraft companies. But even THEN, the level of free govt cheese will seem too high, and the next phase of outright STARVATION of the outsourcees will begin, and all that "innovation" and "private interest" will wither and die, SINCE THERE AREN'T PROFITS TO BE MADE FROM HOW WE PERFORM SPACEFLIGHT.

The U.S. govt is making a glorified APOLLO CAPSULE for its "next step". ARE WE FUCKING GOING BACK IN TIME?!?! No, we're just downsizing and outsourcing, and overall those are indications of a DYING INDUSTRY.

Spaceflight is dying. And you pasty-white basement dwellers just can't fucking STAND IT, can you? EAT SHIT AND FACE THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH IS SHIT THAT YOU MUST EAT.

>> No.4200050

>>4197169

Look at it this way.

You're a US politician. You're running for reelection every couple years. People have pretty short term memories with politicians. You're concerned about the hear and now, and your reelection bid is in 2 years. You have two concerns: Making sure your constituents have money to buy shit, and making sure your constituents don't get blown up...

Politicians aren't typically concerned with benefiting people who aren't born yet. Politicians control the budget, and mining the moon would be a loss generating activity for years if not decades.